TLG Ann: Update on mine environmental permit appeal submission period - 28th Apr 2023, 10:40am

[beserk]

7 here: https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/gabna-och-talma-overklagar-grafitgruva
I take the 'couple' (par) literally

• Both Gabna and Talma Sámi villages are appealing the Land and Environment Court's ruling granting permission for Talga AB to start a graphite mine in Njunisvárri in Kiruna municipality. 2
• The Nature Conservation Association in Norrbotten and its sister association on the Finnish side are also appealing and want to revoke the permit - in addition, a couple of private individuals have appealed. 2+2
• 1

You can find the individuals here. Just compare the names with those in the verdict.
I find two things strange. Firstly, why I can't find any official information but only the ASX message from Talga and the statement here from the radio station.
And does Talga interpret the information from the court and exclude itself, so does not quote itself?
It doesn't really matter, but I like riddles. I am curious to see what will become of our fungus affair.

@beserk Did you get something official?

• Both Gabna and Talma Sámi villages are appealing the Land and Environment Court's ruling granting permission for Talga AB to start a graphite mine in Njunisvárri in Kiruna municipality. 2
• The Nature Conservation Association in Norrbotten and its sister association on the Finnish side are also appealing and want to revoke the permit - in addition, a couple of private individuals have appealed. 2+2
• But the company Talga AB has also requested a review of the judgment - they want the permit to apply immediately, even before the issue has been finally examined by the
  1

Cosors been snowed under with assisting in preparations of a global event taking place on May 6 in the Realm. Say no more.

Will look into the appeal issue. But my opinion is that the antis are about to raise the white flag of surrender. Maybe it should be graphite black.

I think the gambit played by lawyers acting for Talga is genius.

" - they want the permit to apply immediately, even before the issue has been finally examined - "

They show we are playing hardball and won't lay flat on our back baring our throats like a beaten dog. I am sure that is what the antis expected like in the windmill case in Fosen in Norway. The Norwegian Government caved to the pressure. And the antis gloated in their victory. Hubris is always dangerous.

IMHO there are at least two ingredients missing to make this anti meringue rise...

1) Clear proof that holds up in a court that Talga has done anything wrong.

2) A human lightning rod that attracts media, hungry for a simple story, that sells on line subscrpitions globally.

I read The Times, Herald, Washington post etc and follow CNN, MSNBC, and yes must admit Fox News.

The Green Colonialism a la Greta comes in a digestible chunck of a infotainment but not easily regurgitated enough. I could probably knock it in shape with some green washing and word smithing and knowledge of the background to the local pressure ponts in form of main opposing factions...but I am not being paid enough to do that...I just want.my girls to be able to enjoy winter sports and no to end up as climate refugees in the future...

Also I'm not sure Greta wants to be on a losing side - bad for her invincible persona...and for her PR machine...

I enclose a picture from a few summers ago when Greta was campaigning for the Kallok case.

You see that her carefully curated 'wild child communing with nature' look fits perfectly well with a background of another of the major rivers up North in this case the upper reaches of the Luleå river.

I know of the photographer an Utsi. He is one of the cast less Sámi that don't own a reindeer mark and as a consequence must make an alternative living..

In conclusion I am optimistic that we have reached the beginning of the end.

If the judge accepts Talgas arguments fully it could be over the same day as the SC case starts...

IMO got a good feeling about this...

Doesn't seem my reasoned optimism has made a great impact on the share price though...

-beserk

 

[anbuck]

• Both Gabna and Talma Sámi villages are appealing the Land and Environment Court's ruling granting permission for Talga AB to start a graphite mine in Njunisvárri in Kiruna municipality. 2
• The Nature Conservation Association in Norrbotten and its sister association on the Finnish side are also appealing and want to revoke the permit - in addition, a couple of private individuals have appealed. 2+2
• But the company Talga AB has also requested a review of the judgment - they want the permit to apply immediately, even before the issue has been finally examined by the
  1

Cosors been snowed under with assisting in preparations of a global event taking place on May 6 in the Realm. Say no more.

Will look into the appeal issue. But my opinion is that the antis are about to raise the white flag of surrender. Maybe it should be graphite black.

I think the gambit played by lawyers acting for Talga is genius.

" - they want the permit to apply immediately, even before the issue has been finally examined - "

They show we are playing hardball and won't lay flat on our back baring our throats like a beaten dog. I am sure that is what the antis expected like in the windmill case in Fosen in Norway. The Norwegian Government caved to the pressure. And the antis gloated in their victory. Hubris is always dangerous.

IMHO there are at least two ingredients missing to make this anti meringue rise...

1) Clear proof that holds up in a court that Talga has done anything wrong.

2) A human lightning rod that attracts media, hungry for a simple story, that sells on line subscrpitions globally.

I read The Times, Herald, Washington post etc and follow CNN, MSNBC, and yes must admit Fox News.

The Green Colonialism a la Greta comes in a digestible chunck of a infotainment but not easily regurgitated enough. I could probably knock it in shape with some green washing and word smithing and knowledge of the background to the local pressure ponts in form of main opposing factions...but I am not being paid enough to do that...I just want.my girls to be able to enjoy winter sports and no to end up as climate refugees in the future...

Also I'm not sure Greta wants to be on a losing side - bad for her invincible persona...and for her PR machine...

I enclose a picture from a few summers ago when Greta was campaigning for the Kallok case.

You see that her carefully curated 'wild child communing with nature' look fits perfectly well with a background of another of the major rivers up North in this case the upper reaches of the Luleå river.

I know of the photographer an Utsi. He is one of the cast less Sámi that don't own a reindeer mark and as a consequence must make an alternative living..

In conclusion I am optimistic that we have reached the beginning of the end.

If the judge accepts Talgas arguments fully it could be over the same day as the SC case starts...

View attachment 35356

IMO got a good feeling about this...

Doesn't seem my reasoned optimism has made a great impact on the share price though...

-beserk

I am tentatively optimistic, but it's tough to get too optimistic without being able to read the appeals. Given that they are part of the public record, I wish it were easier to get ahold of them. The courts still haven't responded to my original documents inquiry from a couple of weeks ago.

 

[anbuck]

OK just one week to go.................I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but

Just remember that all these appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court and here is a vital statistic which includes all Criminal and Civil appeals.............

Lodge an Appeal and Request Leave to Appeal​

Before it can try a case, the Supreme Court must, as a rule, first grant leave to appeal. Around 6 000 appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court every year. Leave to appeal is granted in only just over 100 cases.

Lodge an appeal and request leave to appeal

Before it can try a case, the Supreme Court must, as a rule, first grant leave to appeal. Around 6 000 appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court every year. Leave to appeal is granted in only just over 100 cases.

www.domstol.se

I hope this Monkey prevails over the Quadruped. But if we must fight on we shall. Yeah OK I had to get a Quoka in there this time since they are judged to be the happiest animal in the World ...LOL

No the case is currently at the Environmental Court of Appeals. After they decide whether or not to grant leave to appeal and if so hear the case, then it can be appealed to the Supreme Court.

 

[Semmel]

The alternative would be.. that no additional appeals were lodged by yesterday, so we could see an announcement of that as well.. if i remember correctly, all the other appeals are already decided, or? In any case, it's not impossible that no more appeals are lodged as the ruling was very comprehensive and opposition was mostly playing for time anyway.

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

No the case is currently at the Environmental Court of Appeals. After they decide whether or not to grant leave to appeal and if so hear the case, then it can be appealed to the Supreme Court.

OK so a lower court decides what a higher court must hear ?

In Oz I think the higher court (Supreme Court) decides if the case from a lower court has merit. Otherwise a lower court would be judging it's immediate peers

I always thought we were now dealing with the Supreme Court (Land & Environment Court of Appeal/Division) and it was just abbreviated in announcements to Land & Environment Court of Appeal.

But I must be wrong so obviously very large differences in the Court structural principles apply between some Western Nations not just the different laws themselves

But as the Webpage of the Supreme Court points out…….

Around 6 000 appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court every year. Leave to appeal is granted in only just over 100 cases.

There must be a lot more Supreme Court Judges if there is a lot more than their stated 100 cases a year plus those then referred upto them via lower courts like Land and Environmental

I’m confused

 

[anbuck]

OK so a lower court decides what a higher court must hear ?

No, the Environmental Court made its ruling. The next court up is the Environemental Court of Appeals. They currently have the case and are deciding whether to hear it or not. Regardless of what they decide, if parties want to continue appealing, then after this court rules, the parties could file an appeal with the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court would decide whether to hear the appeal or not.

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

No, the Environmental Court made its ruling. The next court up is the Environemental Court of Appeals. They currently have the case and are deciding whether to hear it or not. Regardless of what they decide, if parties want to continue appealing, then after this court rules, the parties could file an appeal with the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court would decide whether to hear the appeal or not.

OK now I get it. So even if we get the go ahead next week we are still subject to appeal..........and I thought it was all over next week if we got the go ahead....................FMD

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

@anbuck.................OK so it looks like this

Currently we are here.....

The Environmental Court of Appeal
The Environmental Court of Appeal hears appeals from the five regional environmental courts. The Court of Appeal is comprised of four law-trained judges. One of them can be replaced with a judge who has technical training in the substantive area at issue in the appeal, if appropriate. Three law-trained judges participate in deciding applications for leave to appeal which are granted in about 20-30% of the appealed cases

Note that this implies that one of the judges may not be a lawyer just a specialist in their field seemingly just to advise the other three but not decide

Page 181 https://law.pace.edu/sites/default/files/IJIEA/jciBjallas_Final 3-17_cropped.pdf

Then we could go here.....................

Supreme Court
Lodge an Appeal and Request Leave to Appeal
Before it can try a case, the Supreme Court must, as a rule, first grant leave to appeal. Around 6 000 appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court every year. Leave to appeal is granted in only just over 100 cases.

Lodge an appeal and request leave to appeal

Before it can try a case, the Supreme Court must, as a rule, first grant leave to appeal. Around 6 000 appeals are lodged with the Supreme Court every year. Leave to appeal is granted in only just over 100 cases.

www.domstol.se

Given how difficult it is to get leave to appeal to the Supreme Court (100 out of 6,000) either TLG or the Antis could effectively be a dead duck by next week

So given where the case is now in The Environmental Court of Appeal the four judges, knowing that it is almost impossible to get leave granted to allow a rehearing in the Supreme Court, would really need to be confronted with a quite extraordinary issue, for them to grant the appeal to the Antis .........................................but the Antis might go to the Supreme Court anyway.

Given the Swedish Supreme Court seems to be akin to the Australian High Court then that is going to cost a shitload of money

 

[Monkeymandan]

OK now I get it. So even if we get the go ahead next week we are still subject to appeal..........and I thought it was all over next week if we got the go ahead....................FMD

My interpretation is that you can only appeal to the Supreme Court if the lower court rules against you, enabling you to then lodge an appeal with the next court on the hierarchy.

So the antis could only appeal to the Supreme Court, if the Env Court of Appeal proceeds to hear the case then rules in Talga’s favour.

If the Env Court of Appeal decides the appeals do not have valid grounds for appeal and the case does not proceed to hearing, the antis have no further avenues for appeal.

I hope I’m right, but I could be wrong.

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

If the Env Court of Appeal decides the appeals do not have valid grounds for appeal and the case does not proceed to hearing, the antis have no further avenues for appeal.

I hope I’m right, but I could be wrong.

I would have though that too. But if I am reading @anbuck correctly he is saying both parties could still go to the Supreme Court but......... from my reading........ with very low chance of being granted a new Supreme Court trial

@anbuck stated
"Regardless of what they decide, if parties want to continue appealing, then after this court rules, the parties could file an appeal with the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court would decide whether to hear the appeal or not."

 

[anbuck]

I would have though that too. But if I am reading @anbuck correctly he is saying both parties could still go to the Supreme Court but......... from my reading........ with very low chance of being granted a new Supreme Court trial

@anbuck stated
"Regardless of what they decide, if parties want to continue appealing, then after this court rules, the parties could file an appeal with the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court would decide whether to hear the appeal or not."

I said parties because it depends on how the appeals court rules. If there is any aspect of the ruling that they disagree with, they can appeal.

If the Env Court of Appeal decides the appeals do not have valid grounds for appeal and the case does not proceed to hearing, the antis have no further avenues for appeal.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if the Environmental Court of Appeal decided to not grant leave to appeal (decided not to hear the appeal), then that in and of itself is a ruling against the party that filed the appeal and they could then appeal to the Supreme Court.

 

[Monkeymandan]

I said parties because it depends on how the appeals court rules. If there is any aspect of the ruling that they disagree with, they can appeal.


I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if the Environmental Court of Appeal decided to not grant leave to appeal (decided not to hear the appeal), then that in and of itself is a ruling against the party that filed the appeal and they could then appeal to the Supreme Court.

Ok I see the logic there.

If the Environmental Court of Appeal doesn’t think an appeal has legs though, then hard to see how the Supreme Court might. Which I suppose is reflected in the 1/60 Supreme Court leave to appeal success rate WTM refers to.

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

Essentially if the Land & Environmental Court of Appeal judges were to grant the appeal they would........... to use a technical legal term........................be shitting upon their Land & Environment Court colleagues from a great height..........................unless there is something extraordinary that was missed in the original trial and the original judgement.......................................and do we really think that would be the case ?

Could the 100 out of 6,000 success rate to the Supreme Court be so low because the Environment Court and any other lower court pretty much gets it right 98.33% of the time ?

 

[Semmel]

I have very high confidence that the appeals are not granted. Appeals are there to make sure that if the env. Court made a mistake, there is room to correct it. However, the parties involved do not appeal because they think an error was made. They appeal because the ruling didn't go in their favor. That's a fundamental difference. And unless they can show that the env court has made an error, the appeal is not going to be successful. I think it ends on the 14th.

The ruling in our case was very comprehensive and deep. I might have .y rose glasses on, but i simply don't see a way these appeals habe ground to walk on.

 

[beserk]

"The Court has confirmed receiving six submissions regarding the Permit, five of which include requests for extension of time to submit required details with respect to a reason for appeal."

Looks like there is some collusion between the five

In my opinion the Court will either grant a time extension very quickly or throw it out very quickly as this would be a routine request that the Court has dealt with many times before.

I mean why do they need more time ?..............................................Is Greta on holiday ?

I think there is going to be only one valid request for an appeal which will likely be dismissed

And the validated request will come from Talma and/or Girjas reindeer coops aka Samí villages that stretch from the border to Norway in the west to the Cultivation border in the East.

I still think we are indebted to Hindrik Mikkelson Kyrö from Pello that had the fortitude to stay in Vittangi suanto, at the confluence of the Vittangi river and the Torne river, where I and my brothers own a summer house, ie fishing shack, one winter 1674, and constructed a semi permanent.... fishing shack.

This had the consequence that the Cultivation border was pushed upstream, and as luck would have it, just past Nunasvaara and the bonanza of high grade graphite.

This is the point that needs to be hammered in at every opportunity. The mine site is on the right side of the Cultivation border. Nothing can change that now 349 years later. And I have a feeling the Enviro court took this in consideration.

The legal arguments about plants and animals that need to be protected from 'ill effects' of mine operations is only window dressing.

Nothing can be done legally to dress down the delineation of land for reindeer husbandry to the west and land for silviculture and agriculture to the east of the Cultivation line.

So the Chief of the Talma village claimed that they had won 2 out 3 cases that had gone to Supreme court.

IF they are granted leave to appeal in SC IMHO the strike rate for Talma will be reduced to 50%.

-beserk

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

Nothing can change that now 349 years later. And I have a feeling the Enviro court took this in consideration.

The legal arguments about plants and animals that need to be protected from 'ill effects' of mine operations is only window dressing.

Nothing can be done legally to dress down the delineation of land for reindeer husbandry to the west and land for silviculture and agriculture to the east of the Cultivation line.

So @beserk you are fairly confident about next week for Talga ?

 

[cosors]

appealed by samebys and private individuals, this does not worry Per-Erik Lindvall, who says...
=> https://thestockexchange.com.au/threads/media.19849/post-309118

 

[beserk]

So @beserk you are fairly confident about next week for Talga ?

Yes.