cosors
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Hi Diogenese,
our bar is a place for free expression, controversial opinions and debate culture as well as a place for the exchange of any things that have nothing or directly to do with our stock. Here we can even post non-factual. Everything of course only if compliant with our TSE rules.
But with your reference to facts I would like to start:
The two wind farms were built legally.
It was retroactively judged differently, but for the time being they were built legally. It would have been illegal, e.g., if the first judgment had been wrong because of corruption or other procedural errors. But it was not, so they were built legally.
I mentioned the pressure that currently prevails in the media and socially to be as compliant as possible and unassailable for any accusations that may arise from moral claims of minorities of all kinds. It is the zeitgeist at the moment. This has certainly made an impact on the subsequent decision.
We know plenty of another example, one is Cementa. A minority thought it morally appropriate to take action against cement production because of the CO² emissions. Mining, which was previously legal, should be banned or made illegal. This was done with a dodge by retroactively declaring the site a Natura2000 site by the relevant politicians of a very small party and thus denying the extension of the permit.
Besides, the EU has openly complained about these machinations to use Natura2000 as a weapon and will therefore adapt its rules or laws.
The consequence of this moral action of a minority led to a cascade of consequences that this minority did not want to see or accept. The collapse of the Swedish economy was threatened by passively declaring limestone mining illegal through Natura2000 legislation. I am not exaggerating. It was said that acting on this moral grounds would affect up to 60% of the Swedish economy. The outcry was so great that new laws were quickly created to ensure that mining could continue. If there had not been this outcry and the courage to say what is in conflict with the moral conformity movement, to make oneself vulnerable, the consequences for Sweden would have been catastrophic. So it came down to saying what makes them vulnerable and is also part of the facts. Later more to this.
That will work itself out after my post.
I started this topic here and for me it is definitely a Sami topic. Where else would be the reference to us. Greta was only there because of the Sami who want to tear down the two wind farms because this collides with their reindeer industry (not my term but that of politics). I was first of all about the attitude of the Sami and not about Greta. She is the catalyst and symbol of a worldwide movement and therefore she has power. Which she uses in this case. Which is why I am very angry about this one case.
I am of the opinion that this can have a catastrophic symbolic effect, thoughtlessly and egomaniacally motivated and forced by the moral blackmail ('blackmail' is this even allowed after the global movement? LoL ) of being vulnerable.
I read as many articles as possible on the subject to get as neutral a picture as possible. I am used to that in such heated topics. That it is only about these two wind farms are her own words. She said she is not against other wind farms. Hopefully there won't be more wind farms or wind turbines on 'Sami land' in Norway, Sweden and Finland.) As already mentioned, I consider this action of hers with its symbolic effect and power nevertheless dangerous.
I have posted a map above with blue marks. And that is only the area of the Sami in Sweden it comes those of Norway and Finland in addition; Russia I leave here times out.
If Greta signals that legally built projects like wind farms can be torn down retroactively if they are built on land that can be used by the Sami then this can lead to further cases. I mean, in this one case, despite her advisors, she did not live up to her responsibility, which she has chosen to assume as a global symbol.
In the worst case scenario a cascade effect like Cementa is threatening. 78% of all wind turbines were rejected. Keep the map above in mind. For the time being it was just a question of CO² emissions during production for a minority with a strong conviction and greater naivety. But without cement, there is no concrete. Without concrete, mining is unable to continue. Without mining, for example, there is no iron. Without iron, there is no steel. Without steel, no sheet metal. Without sheet metal, no Volvo, batteries or whatever. And all German carmakers and more want to buy green steel in Scandinavia and especially in Sweden. Possibly because there is a lot of green electricity there and because in our country the steel industry was almost abolished for moral reasons (NIMBY).
With wind turbines or parks I'm thinking more of the Green Deal and the Green Transition. Without green power, no green transition. So if this makes school because of her power and symbolic effect then a cascade effect may well occur because the areas that would come into question for such a moral action are very very huge in all of Scandinavia. Unless there are no other wind farms for this precedent
I can not follow this.
She is an environmental activist first and foremost. That is her driving motive and claim. Whether and how she is an environmentalist herself I don't know.
And what does that have to do with facts? => Humanist values over conservative values. Can humanistic values not arise from conservative values? Or are conservative values for you an exclusion of humanistic values? Can only ecosocialist values be humane for you at the same time? All conservatives are inhumane?! Is this your thinking about facts?
So you seem to be about windmills and Sami instead of Greta (s.a.).
I explained the second part above. They are her own words. She says that she is only concerned with this one issue. I do not claim that on my own. And I myself wrote: => She says she is only concerned about this one (2 wind parks) in Norway. For me, that's a fact too.
I am an staunch supporter (?) of indigenous rights. For me, the rights of indigenous people have a very high priority. I have a big problem with the past and history where European nations subjugated other peoples according to their moral standards of the time - survival of the fittest. And here our neighbors Great Britain and France have behaved much more ruthlessly than, for example, the Germans. Especially in Australia the historical overcoming is smoldering until today it seems.
I am very sensitive on this subject but equally not morally blind because a global movement and conviction comes that only the one who does not criticize is compliant. How should a society develop in this way, which is what this movement is all about. There I am completely with them. But I prefer to follow a path away from social bashing because someone does not follow the moral claim of a minority unconditionally and dumbly. Again, as a German, I am particularly sensitive to this. 'We' can march in conformity very well, whether behind Nazis or Communists or even ~Moral Cultists (my term) or on Fridays or because Corona doesn't exist. Some are even rebuilding our language because a minority thinks it is right, ignoring the fact that we are excluding migrants; a moral elite action (s. PS below).
I thought it appropriate to say here in the bar that this movement with Greta in the lead and also some Sami are going too far in this one matter from my point of view. If you think it is okay that wind farms must be torn down and legally covered so that a minority can pursue their trade unhindered and without compromise then that is your view. But I do not want to imply anything here because we are 'sitting' with just our avatars in the bar and not in reality and therefore misunderstandings are inevitable.
I have always taken great pains here on TSE to differentiate as far as possible and not to denounce. For me another fact. Of course, for me not all are the same or all are these or those. That is why I write and wrote about this topic in such detail in the last year here so that no one feels unjustly attacked. And I always have in mind that everyone can read here. Just because I use an avatar here does not mean that I blow out any opinions or make mood here intransparently and to achieve something in the back. I keep to our TSE rules. With one of you I regularly exchange about when I have concerns about posting something, what to post or better not. To get a second opinion next to my own. Of course, I don't do that with the bar because that's exactly what it's for. And I see that we get along. The mud pit is dry and dusty
And for me personally the most important and two topics at the end.
First of all, of course we are allowed to have different opinions. For me, that is what a pluralistic, thriving society is all about. For me, the opposite would be conforming and subjecting myself to the moral claims of just one group or minority without criticism. I love the noise as a whole. This gives me the picture of a thriving society, although I think the moral cultist movement (my term) is indicative of a society at its zenith. But that's just my exaggerated opinion.
And the second thing is that I've learned to appreciate you Diogenese a lot over the last few years here and there, which is why I've taken the time to post to you here in such a length. I didn't want to provoke or annoy you with my opinion. So thank you for your objection to my post. That helps me to question myself again and to develop myself further. So no offense and I hope we get along even if you don't share my opinion. Of course I heard your objection with the humanistic. I just mean that this group of Sami are too stubborn in this one matter for a pluralistic society. But as beserk confirmed, it seems to be a common attitude.
Maybe it's because I'm not one of them and so I can't understand whether the majority prefer to live isolated or with the other society.
So, dear Diogenese, please bear with my opinion and also with my opinion about facts.
__________
PS: 'dear' stands in Germany for liebe or lieber depending on whether you are female or male. But that was criminal for a moral cultist minority and that's why we're increasingly being forced everywhere to install a : or * and pronounce it with a 'gender gap'. That would look like this:
So, liebe:*r Diogenese; the asterisk or colon stands for all non-male or female.)
And it would be hyper morally correct or conform after this minority if I asked you beforehand how I should address you. But since you don't have this problem like we do with our language it doesn't matter.
Just wanted to give it as an example analogous to the topic above. I would call this ~over-hasty moral conformity. How dare an enlightened society like the Norwegians allow wind turbines on land that can be used by the Sami! And what about the Swedes, there are far more. If the reindeer don't like these things, like most or maybe all of us in our backyard, because that still restricts their grazing that's understandable. And a few, maybe, Sami just call that green colonialism and genocide against their people. Since they are mostly Swedes, Norwegians or Finns that would be considered a genocide against these same peoples. I don't like it either, really.)
The courts are there to consider. And their work is really not easy in a time when each group only insists on its own rights and the big picture disappears behind the myriad of moral claims. Let's go together under. The main thing is morally compliant. Hence I spoke of society at the zenith.
Incidentally, I do not believe that the energy transition will ever work with this political claim. Wind farms are shut down seasonally for birds or they must have a flight detector and then shut down. The authorities are in a dilemma between species protection and the expansion of green energy. And now in Scandinavia, in addition to the existing problems that are slowing down the energy transition this topic is on top of that.
And who made it visible to the whole world and passively asked to imitate it?
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But maybe I will change my mind dear passengers in this bus.
This time of year I'm always reminded of the fun my father, brothers and I had travelling by snow mobile along the frozen Torne river past snowclad pine and spruce trees, in the magical month of March, to our favourite ice fishing spots below Nunasvaara in Rovasuanto. In my mind the spring sun is always shining over the wintry landscape during our fishing expeditions many years ago.
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sausage that we can put on Knäckebröd (which you will be responsible for).
Just stumbled upon this very nicely done animated film distributed by Swedish mag Ny Teknik, and produced by LKAB at the beginning of 2023. It starts with showing Kiruna from above and then deepdives under the city and shows the geographical location of the Per Geijer iron ore North of the main ore body in Kirunavaara. The grade of iron in the mineral bodies is given by the red color which indicates above 60% Magnetite, Fe
As for the rest of the conglomerate of 185 kg that makes up an EV battery, steel, aluminium and Copper can be found within EU but Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt and Lithium are more of a problem. I believe Talga are sitting on some promising Cobalt finds in their portfolio of potential mine sites i Norrbotten though.
Graphite is King and rules majestically over the battery anode comprising up to 40 % of the total weight of a typical EV battery.
The Phosphorous and REE outlined in.....yellow and blue ....for the benefit of the Swedish Minister and assembled European news medias sake. A perfect marketing strategy that makes Sweden, the Swedish Government, Kiruna and LKAB look good at the beginning of the Swedish EU presidency through a good "news" story. Backed up by data from exploration....naturlich...
