The Talga Bar

[Semmel]

Oh and by the way everyone. ....................................

Friday is the 5th of April.

That's 1 year since the Environmental Permit was first granted by the Swedish Land and Environment Court

Frankly I don't believe the BS fairy tale story around TLG anymore. Everything might look great on paper but opposition in relation to anything mining/industrial in the Vittangi area will gain further momentum creating further delays.

This is a classic case of all the plans looking great on paper and on a Excel spreadsheet but then they meet the reality of what really happens at ground level.

Remember all those Financial Models with the astronomic share prices............................Fantasy stuff...............but we all bought into it at the time. Look at where we are now.

Don't forget during the last webinar Mark alluded to the timing of the decision of the Supreme Court being "close by" or words to that effect. More than 2 months later............................Nothing !

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson

​

This Company is just a money pit burning through cash at a fast rate with many more cash raises to come

I'll be dumping 100% of this junk on any major spike

I think we all bought into the bright future of TLG. I agree with you, objectively viewed, as an investment, TLG is terrible. The opportunity cost alone, not only the decline in share price is large. And it doesnt even matter why. Sami, court, appeals, whatever, doesnt matter. As an investor you are responsible for one thing and one thing only: return on investment. In my opinion, TLG is a good company. But as an investment, its not great. And that is an objective fact, no matter how emotionally attached you are to it. There is a reason why 95% of all investors do worse than an index fund long term. Like you, I too thought I was smarter. Reality is, I am not. It hurts to accept that.

However, I am about 50% in TLG and I will decide based on how the company plans to expand going forwards. I do not think that political or court headwinds get smaller. I think its gonna be the same as in the past. Forever permitting processes, followed by endless appeals. At least now, I know what I am getting into. Talga will make it eventually and I will stay with it.

Good luck WTM. I share your frustration and might be in the same mind state if I was 100% TLG. Luckily I am not. It doesnt help you though. What can I say, we ll got fooled by Sweden.

 

[cosors]

It's not Sweden. Do you think VUL would do things differently here? It's environmentalists, environmental protection and green investment that doesn't seem to be leading to anything other than a dead end at the moment, and that globally.

Nepal utfärdar tillstånd till 159 nya gruvor

Nepals departement för gruvor och geologi har utfärdat tillstånd att öppna 159 gruvor, rapporterar Xpert Times. Beslutet är ett led i Nepals ambition att bättre utnyttja sina underjordiska resurser, som omfattar stora fyndigheter av järn, koppar, guld och kalksten bland annat. Departementets...

www.metallerochgruvor.se

what is climate protection anyway...

 

[Diogenese]

It's not Sweden. Do you think VUL would do things differently here? It's environmentalists, environmental protection and green investment that doesn't seem to be leading to anything other than a dead end at the moment, and that globally.

Nepal utfärdar tillstånd till 159 nya gruvor

Nepals departement för gruvor och geologi har utfärdat tillstånd att öppna 159 gruvor, rapporterar Xpert Times. Beslutet är ett led i Nepals ambition att bättre utnyttja sina underjordiska resurser, som omfattar stora fyndigheter av järn, koppar, guld och kalksten bland annat. Departementets...

www.metallerochgruvor.se

what is climate protection anyway...

Well you know the old aphorism about omelettes and eggs ...

 

[Semmel]

It's not Sweden. Do you think VUL would do things differently here? It's environmentalists, environmental protection and green investment that doesn't seem to be leading to anything other than a dead end at the moment, and that globally.

Nepal utfärdar tillstånd till 159 nya gruvor

Nepals departement för gruvor och geologi har utfärdat tillstånd att öppna 159 gruvor, rapporterar Xpert Times. Beslutet är ett led i Nepals ambition att bättre utnyttja sina underjordiska resurser, som omfattar stora fyndigheter av järn, koppar, guld och kalksten bland annat. Departementets...

www.metallerochgruvor.se

what is climate protection anyway...

Well, my point is, that it doesn't matter who's fault it is. Of course you are correct but that doesn't change the investment side of things.

I will never again invest in anything connected to green or environmental stuff because the resistance by misguided individuals is unreasonably out of bounds. But that's a lesson that I had to learn the hard way, like you. I would not have believed it if someone would have told me beforehand.

 

[DAH]

Well, my point is, that it doesn't matter who's fault it is. Of course you are correct but that doesn't change the investment side of things.

I will never again invest in anything connected to green or environmental stuff because the resistance by misguided individuals is unreasonably out of bounds. But that's a lesson that I had to learn the hard way, like you. I would not have believed it if someone would have told me beforehand.

Damn, looks like the bar needs a rage room added on...

@Semmel & @WheresTheMonkey - I'll be annoying and remind you the old "price is what you pay, value is what you get" Oracle quote. If the sp was $5 today you probably wouldn't need to vent and you probably wouldn't be selling either, as ROI is suddenly more favourable.

All the anti's, rougue counsellors etc are simply taking care of self interest. None of them are anti TLG and none of their crap matters! Yes Talga's a political football and lucky for us we have the Swedish Govt & EU as our insurance policy (the big dogs that bite those who bark). Tell me how we don't get through this period and go on to kick massive goals?

Fair point re opportunity cost (in hindsight), but where would you instead invest? I can't find anything pre-revenue remotely as good as TLG's potential (I should add i have time for this to play out). Talga is IMO so de-risked, it allows concentration you'd never consider elsewhere.

And let's remember 2 important pieces of this puzzle... we have many products and tech capabilities now that do not rely on Vittangi. And many high calibre people make team Talga, and they all have a very large portion of their rem package connected to the longer term share price.

Oh, and yes MT's guidance on timings are way off. That's the one thing that keeps stumping me.

Stay sane and stay long!

 

[Semmel]

View attachment 60297
Damn, looks like the bar needs a rage room added on...

@Semmel & @WheresTheMonkey - I'll be annoying and remind you the old "price is what you pay, value is what you get" Oracle quote. If the sp was $5 today you probably wouldn't need to vent and you probably wouldn't be selling either, as ROI is suddenly more favourable.

All the anti's, rougue counsellors etc are simply taking care of self interest. None of them are anti TLG and none of their crap matters! Yes Talga's a political football and lucky for us we have the Swedish Govt & EU as our insurance policy (the big dogs that bite those who bark). Tell me how we don't get through this period and go on to kick massive goals?

Fair point re opportunity cost (in hindsight), but where would you instead invest? I can't find anything pre-revenue remotely as good as TLG's potential (I should add i have time for this to play out). Talga is IMO so de-risked, it allows concentration you'd never consider elsewhere.

And let's remember 2 important pieces of this puzzle... we have many products and tech capabilities now that do not rely on Vittangi. And many high calibre people make team Talga, and they all have a very large portion of their rem package connected to the longer term share price.

Oh, and yes MT's guidance on timings are way off. That's the one thing that keeps stumping me.

Stay sane and stay long!

I dont mind the share price at all. In fact, I love the current share price, as it allowes me to buy more. That was not the base of my critisism, even though its the metric that gets used for investing. Its the progress that Talga made as a company. And thats just not what I expected.

And of course the environmental groups have nothing against Talga specifically. They are against everything and anything, regardless of how beneficial it would be for the climate or how little it impacts the local environment.

When you look at the current pace of things, I cant imagine any more that the expansion comes by 2030. We can be lucky if it gets in operation by 2032. Think about that. Its not that it wouldnt be physically possible to get it up and running by 2028 or so. But the amount of dragging any process on forever means that all future mining related progress of Talga is going to take much, much longer and time is important. For the environmental groups, it doesnt matter how clean the mine is either. Or how beneficial it is for the climate. Or how much the EU wants it. Or how well it works. Its all irrelevant because environmental groups and Sami will claim the end of the world is upon us, no matter what. They are completely unhinged in that regard. And the Swedish court system supports this behavior.

That is why I think TLG was not a good long term investment. Now that so much time has passed, it might be good and thats why I stay in for the medium term. I think we have a very good chance to skyrocket within 1 year to some level of 2 or 3 AUD. Thats why I am not worried about the share price. WTM is correct though, we need an indipendent revenue stream from the mine. Talnode-SI comes to mind. If that gets going, there is no reason for concern and the time pressue becomes much less. However, Talnode-Si is not verified at moment. Once it is, it becomes a different sorry.

 

[DAH]

I dont mind the share price at all. In fact, I love the current share price, as it allowes me to buy more. That was not the base of my critisism, even though its the metric that gets used for investing. Its the progress that Talga made as a company. And thats just not what I expected.

And of course the environmental groups have nothing against Talga specifically. They are against everything and anything, regardless of how beneficial it would be for the climate or how little it impacts the local environment.

When you look at the current pace of things, I cant imagine any more that the expansion comes by 2030. We can be lucky if it gets in operation by 2032. Think about that. Its not that it wouldnt be physically possible to get it up and running by 2028 or so. But the amount of dragging any process on forever means that all future mining related progress of Talga is going to take much, much longer and time is important. For the environmental groups, it doesnt matter how clean the mine is either. Or how beneficial it is for the climate. Or how much the EU wants it. Or how well it works. Its all irrelevant because environmental groups and Sami will claim the end of the world is upon us, no matter what. They are completely unhinged in that regard. And the Swedish court system supports this behavior.

That is why I think TLG was not a good long term investment. Now that so much time has passed, it might be good and thats why I stay in for the medium term. I think we have a very good chance to skyrocket within 1 year to some level of 2 or 3 AUD. Thats why I am not worried about the share price. WTM is correct though, we need an indipendent revenue stream from the mine. Talnode-SI comes to mind. If that gets going, there is no reason for concern and the time pressue becomes much less. However, Talnode-Si is not verified at moment. Once it is, it becomes a different sorry.

I think it's also important to note that the anti's delaying stage 1 progress has very likely enabled TLG to achieve significantly more favourable funding terms. And as to how much value that adds to future profits we'll never really know but I feel the delay has been more beneficial than not. Particularly for those fortunate to be able to buy more shares at recent low prices.

We've made significant progress from a Government stakeholder point too (Inc EU) where all the expansions will very likely be as a strategic project under the CRMA - so here's hoping timelines can somewhat be caught back up.

Yes all else progress wise can only be assumed being behind closed doors. We can only take MT on his word, and given how he's handled himself, CR's and his own holdings over the past decade I back him 100%.

Tal Si could be the game changer to save our short term sanity. Lets hope it too isnt awaiting the Swedish courts. MT dropped a "billions" valuation so let's go with that for now. Throw in some eventual additives, tech and recycling, and we have a lot of value outside Tal-C and the mine.

Downside is negligent, upside is massive.

 

[teilenswert]

View attachment 60297
Damn, looks like the bar needs a rage room added on...

@Semmel & @WheresTheMonkey - I'll be annoying and remind you the old "price is what you pay, value is what you get" Oracle quote. If the sp was $5 today you probably wouldn't need to vent and you probably wouldn't be selling either, as ROI is suddenly more favourable.

All the anti's, rougue counsellors etc are simply taking care of self interest. None of them are anti TLG and none of their crap matters! Yes Talga's a political football and lucky for us we have the Swedish Govt & EU as our insurance policy (the big dogs that bite those who bark). Tell me how we don't get through this period and go on to kick massive goals?

Fair point re opportunity cost (in hindsight), but where would you instead invest? I can't find anything pre-revenue remotely as good as TLG's potential (I should add i have time for this to play out). Talga is IMO so de-risked, it allows concentration you'd never consider elsewhere.

And let's remember 2 important pieces of this puzzle... we have many products and tech capabilities now that do not rely on Vittangi. And many high calibre people make team Talga, and they all have a very large portion of their rem package connected to the longer term share price.

Oh, and yes MT's guidance on timings are way off. That's the one thing that keeps stumping me.

Stay sane and stay long!

I'll just copy and paste my post from the other place because it fits thematically as it addresses claims of other posters who imply that future expansions will happen much faster and that Talga is undervalued due to low risk and lots of ignored potential (Talnode-Si, Talnode-E, graphene, recycling...).

"It's strange to read your statement. You are suggesting that all that is needed is a final decision by the Supreme Court and then everything will go its way like a game of dominoes? Even if we get the final approval for the anode factory now, the growing opposition from residents and politicians to the mines themselves will not disappear without further ado. I wish you were right, of course and there would really be 'blue skies ahead', but it's much more likely that - even if the government intervenes and orders approval - there will still be huge problems. And if this is already the case with relatively low tons of graphite mining, then you can quickly abandon your pipe dreams of a future 5-10 times higher scale of operation through the Niska expansion. I really have to shake my head when I think about the lengthy approval processes of recent years and then people assume that this will magically change in the future thanks to the CRMA or other bold announcements by the various governments.

What I find increasingly frustrating is the fact that we have been employing more than 35 people since 2019 to develop Talga in such a way that one day we might actually achieve significant sales and grow into the current company valuation. And month after month and year after year, you realize that these ambitions are being delayed further and more capital increases are needed to keep the business going. Mark gives the impression with every interview that this is making our situation better rather than worse, that he has never been more confident and that he doesn't understand why our valuation isn't in much higher territory. Then perhaps it would be time to find ways to generate income that at least cover the running costs and prevent future capital increases, despite the delays caused by external factors. If we really are such an outstanding specialist in anodes and advanced materials, then he must also find ways to monetize this expertise without graphite from his own sources. Leading Edge Materials is another company from Sweden that has had a fully licensed mine for years, the Woxna graphite mine less than 800 km from Lulea, and could have used the last few years to diversify and convert graphite from third-party partners into anode material. The fact that we haven't gone in this dirrection or maybe havent even considered this sometimes makes me doubt."

It's really hard to stay long in Talga, especially when you see chip companies like Nvidia at all time highs (which benefic massively from AI, EVs etc. and are much easier scalable then mining companies).

 

[Diogenese]

Crikey! Are we witnessing late-onset SAD?

 

[Semmel]

Crikey! Are we witnessing late-onset SAD?

dont worry, I stay committed to Talga because, despite all the issues, I do support the company and mission. There is not much else to do anyway but hope. But you cant help but realize that original plans got delayed significantly, no matter how much you want to read positive things into any development. Talga couldnt have done anything better in my opinion. We all collectively significantly misjudged the operational environment though.

 

[DAH]

I'll just copy and paste my post from the other place because it fits thematically as it addresses claims of other posters who imply that future expansions will happen much faster and that Talga is undervalued due to low risk and lots of ignored potential (Talnode-Si, Talnode-E, graphene, recycling...).

"It's strange to read your statement. You are suggesting that all that is needed is a final decision by the Supreme Court and then everything will go its way like a game of dominoes? Even if we get the final approval for the anode factory now, the growing opposition from residents and politicians to the mines themselves will not disappear without further ado. I wish you were right, of course and there would really be 'blue skies ahead', but it's much more likely that - even if the government intervenes and orders approval - there will still be huge problems. And if this is already the case with relatively low tons of graphite mining, then you can quickly abandon your pipe dreams of a future 5-10 times higher scale of operation through the Niska expansion. I really have to shake my head when I think about the lengthy approval processes of recent years and then people assume that this will magically change in the future thanks to the CRMA or other bold announcements by the various governments.

What I find increasingly frustrating is the fact that we have been employing more than 35 people since 2019 to develop Talga in such a way that one day we might actually achieve significant sales and grow into the current company valuation. And month after month and year after year, you realize that these ambitions are being delayed further and more capital increases are needed to keep the business going. Mark gives the impression with every interview that this is making our situation better rather than worse, that he has never been more confident and that he doesn't understand why our valuation isn't in much higher territory. Then perhaps it would be time to find ways to generate income that at least cover the running costs and prevent future capital increases, despite the delays caused by external factors. If we really are such an outstanding specialist in anodes and advanced materials, then he must also find ways to monetize this expertise without graphite from his own sources. Leading Edge Materials is another company from Sweden that has had a fully licensed mine for years, the Woxna graphite mine less than 800 km from Lulea, and could have used the last few years to diversify and convert graphite from third-party partners into anode material. The fact that we haven't gone in this dirrection or maybe havent even considered this sometimes makes me doubt."

It's really hard to stay long in Talga, especially when you see chip companies like Nvidia at all time highs (which benefic massively from AI, EVs etc. and are much easier scalable then mining companies).

Wouldnt we all have liked to got into Nvidia before it took off. Just for the record, your cut and paste was replying to a comment of 10 years of Blue skies once the SC dismisses appeals... no-one here is suggesting that.

I think it's fair for us to assume Vittangi will be a strategic project. Therefore in that situation what makes you think future expansions will be so problematic? To form that opinion you must assume the legislation will not be enforced. Anti's may still make noise, but they will not have the very lenient and archaic Swedish legal process to rely upon.

MT has addressed your other frustrations; he doesn't want to use 3rd party ore (yet) as it's inferior, and he doesn't want rubbish offtakes with all sorts of caveats in the hope of short term sp rises to appease short term needs. His focus is on long term shareholder value and thankfully that aligns his interests with the majority of shateholders. You've got to trust and hold, or you simply move on in the hope of finding the next Nvidia. I do t like my chances of that so I'm sticking with the slow train.

I genuinely wish you well!

 

[Semmel]

Wouldnt we all have liked to got into Nvidia before it took off. Just for the record, your cut and paste was replying to a comment of 10 years of Blue skies once the SC dismisses appeals... no-one here is suggesting that.

I think it's fair for us to assume Vittangi will be a strategic project. Therefore in that situation what makes you think future expansions will be so problematic? To form that opinion you must assume the legislation will not be enforced. Anti's may still make noise, but they will not have the very lenient and archaic Swedish legal process to rely upon.

MT has addressed your other frustrations; he doesn't want to use 3rd party ore (yet) as it's inferior, and he doesn't want rubbish offtakes with all sorts of caveats in the hope of short term sp rises to appease short term needs. His focus is on long term shareholder value and thankfully that aligns his interests with the majority of shateholders. You've got to trust and hold, or you simply move on in the hope of finding the next Nvidia. I do t like my chances of that so I'm sticking with the slow train.

I genuinely wish you well!

What makes you sure that EU legislation applies to the appeals process? Talga got their environmental permit within 1.5 years if I remember correctly. That is well within the EU legislation. I am not sure that it does actually apply to the appeal of the permit. I certainly hope so, but I am not sure it is actually the case.

Even if the CRMS includes the appeals process, what makes you sure that EU law will be enforced and in what way? Will they start giving out parking tickets to the judges of the appeals court? Will the EU start issuing fines towards the Swedish state? I dont see how this would put pressure on the process within the next 10 years.

Granted, my view might be overly negative, but experience shows that ANY expectation (even the most pessimistic ones) on the time needed for the paper-work process got surprised to the downside. At this stage, I would call it wishful thinking that this changes in the near future.

 

[cosors]

What makes you sure that EU legislation applies to the appeals process? Talga got their environmental permit within 1.5 years if I remember correctly. That is well within the EU legislation. I am not sure that it does actually apply to the appeal of the permit. I certainly hope so, but I am not sure it is actually the case.

Even if the CRMS includes the appeals process, what makes you sure that EU law will be enforced and in what way? Will they start giving out parking tickets to the judges of the appeals court? Will the EU start issuing fines towards the Swedish state? I dont see how this would put pressure on the process within the next 10 years.

Granted, my view might be overly negative, but experience shows that ANY expectation (even the most pessimistic ones) on the time needed for the paper-work process got surprised to the downside. At this stage, I would call it wishful thinking that this changes in the near future.

Exploitation (mining) and environmental permits were submitted to relevant authorities in May 2020.

...
I don't want to hold the valve for ventilating today. The pressure must be released like out from a boiler.)

 

[Semmel]

dont know about you, but my frustration is vented for today

Lets have a cozy drink and a nice dinner and call it a day. See you tomorrow! Hopefully next week the judges return back to their work and finally get to make a decision..

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

tually and I will stay with it.

Good luck WTM. I share your frustration and might be in the same mind state if I was 100% TLG. Luckily I am not. It doesnt help you though. What can I say, we ll got fooled by Sweden.

Thankfully I am not 100% TLG but it does make up around 30% of my ASX holdings. I have a property portfolio which in future I will pay more attention to than money pit start ups like TLG

 

[Semmel]

Ill put some music on while we wait..

 

[cosors]

@beserk maybe interesting for you regarding Vittangi:

"PRO Vittangi has had an appreciated author visit​

PRO Vittangi has recently had the pleasure of inviting to an interesting event with the participation of two authors.​

Hans Olov "Hantis" Ohlson and Sven Nyberg, who spoke and presented their latest books.

On 20 March, we had a visit from Hans Olov "Hantis" Ohlson and Sven Nyberg from Luleå, who talked about and presented their latest books. We started the activity with a soup supper at 12 noon. More than twenty people came to enjoy Roger's delicious, filling root vegetable/fish soup, Hilkka's homemade bread and Anki's delicious chocolate treats with coffee. After the coffee, "Hantis" took the floor. Have..." rest behind PW

https://nsd.se/familj/artikel/pro-vittangi-har-haft-uppskattat-forfattarbesok-/r3o3odkr

...it's about this:

Lars-Åke and "Hantis" talk about the new book

last year:

"Author visited us​

Hans-Olov presented his new book

With a twinkle in his eye and wonderful energy, author Hans Olov "Hantis" Ohlson presented his latest book "The Rollator Philosopher".
The story is set in the sheltered accommodation where the main character, Roy the Rollator Philosopher, lives.
Together with a group of lively and resourceful ladies and gentlemen, all with different personalities, they meet in the common room and discuss.
Disagreements, frozen joints and opinions, grumpiness, increased whining.... comes with age and how much do fiddly hearing aids matter?
"The Rollator Philosopher" is entertaining, funny and with some recognition.

After a very amusing moment, freshly made coffee with good sandwiches was offered and then the autumn meeting went like a dance. The budget was voted through, nice lottery prizes were handed out and the meeting ended before all satisfied and smiling participants walked home."

Good food seems to be the basis up there


___________
Make sure you don't get lynched up there during your visit!

The living being mother earth (nature) has long since channeled that the mining activities must cease in her body, it is cancer cell behaviour to practice mining activities and gluttony is a mortal sin "gluttony", as we sow we reap. We know what we do when cancer cells get out of control in our bodies, we attack with death radiation, liquidation and cellular deadly toxins, we are one with nature.
We don't need to mine more ore for imaginary needs, we can change and live in harmony with nature and mother earth.
This is a choice and a fact that it is foolish to continue to ignore.
The destructive principle on which we have built our societies for too long is not sustainable in the long term, and we need to tighten up on all levels.
+
Hemp cultivation for cardboard and car bodies, much of the steel can be replaced + 50,000 products and a reclamation of the 300,000 nuclear family homes (our roots) that the zåzzarna (? I don't know how to translate) have killed in 100 years as the largest party.
Bravo Taveniko and z i Kiruna.*

original:
"Det levande väsendet moder jord (naturen) har sedan länge kanaliserat att gruvverksamheterna måste upphöra i hennes kropp, det är cancercell beteende att utöva gruvverksamhet och glupskheten är en dödssynd "frosseri", som vi sår får vi skörda. Vi vet ju hur vi gör när cancerceller går överstyr i våra kroppar vi anfaller med dödsstrålning, likvidation och cell dödliga gifter, vi är ett med naturen.
Vi behöver inte bryta mer malm till påhittade behov, vi kan ställa om och leva i harmoni med naturen och moder jord.
Det är ett val och ett faktum som det är dumt att fortsätta ignorera.
Den dräpande principen vi nu alltför länge byggt våra samhällen på är inte långsiktigt hållbart, vi måste skärpa oss på alla plan.


Bo Wennström
Hampa odling för pappar och bilkarosser, stor del av stålet kan ersättas + 50000 produkter och ett återtagande av de 300 000 kärnfamiljehemmen (våra rötter) som zåzzarna dräpt under 100 år, som största parti.
bravo Taveniko och z i Kiruna."

*This person is so blinded that it didn't even realise that he voted in favour for the project and only spoke against it in the media. Seems to be working. Falling for it

 

[cosors]

It's the zeitgeist we have have to deal with

 

[Diogenese]

https://www.netflix.com/watch/81520...0,,,,81520685,Video:81520685,miniDpPlayButton

It's the zeitgeist we have to deal with

 

[beserk]

Yes Cosors there are a lot of misinformation and mindbeliefs in Vittangi.

They should better employ the structural material engineer in this news item in The Guardian from a reputable University that have now created single layer wafer thick carbon semi conductors.

And it doesn't stop there the first monolayers of pure gold have been created. These could potentially be used in the computing devices of the future offering incredible gains in miniturisation and huge storability and lightning transfer of electrical currents.

It is the next big thing since pre sliced bread was invented...seriously



Its comforting to see that real scientist are marching on unperturbed despite the opposition from greenies and mislead local politicians...

Beserk