The Talga Bar

cosors

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For the most we did that because we know how challenging it is, about the battery alone.
But the last few days I've been reading articles full of expectations and how often their vehicles have been spotted in California. I think a lot of people are surprised by the news who don't pay much attention to the supply chains for all the components.
 
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cosors

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Semmel

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Let me play some music.. it's the tune to my most favorite scene in all of sci-fi movie/series history. And it's very much quite fitting to our current situation too :) if you know the Hendrix version, I think this one is even better due to the drums. Anyway, if you know the series this is utter genius.

 
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Semmel

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Happy Very Funny GIF by Disney Zootopia
Sloth Dmv GIF


Come on court!!
 
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brewm0re

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Happy Very Funny GIF by Disney Zootopia
Sloth Dmv GIF


Come on court!!
Love it Semmel! Probably the best gif I’ve seen in a long time to suit this situation! The SC (snail court) needs TalSi fast charge up its arse.
 
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Semmel

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I hope to join the lads at the bar again soon. Unfortunately there has been someone targeting me at the bar and elsewhere for a while so I’ve stayed clear.

Who is bullying my guests!!??
Angry Avatar The Last Airbender GIF by NETFLIX
 
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cronk

Member
1709299661917.gif
 
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Happy Very Funny GIF by Disney Zootopia
Sloth Dmv GIF


Come on court!!
Just thinking about the Court.

Could someone post the NIMBYs Facebook page link again.

It seems to me that any decision by the Court is going to appear on their FB page first rather than via the business hours constraints of the ASX.

In fact you EU lads/gals could profit from it
 
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Gero

Regular
Just thinking about the Court.

Could someone post the NIMBYs Facebook page link again.

It seems to me that any decision by the Court is going to appear on their FB page first rather than via the business hours constraints of the ASX.

In fact you EU lads/gals could profit from it

Hi WTM

These are the two I follow:



Regards

Gero
 
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Hi WTM

These are the two I follow:



Regards

Gero
Thanks Gero

I see Agent Orange herself LOL
 
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Semmel

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Scared Still Waiting GIF by Looney Tunes
 
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beserk

Regular
As an aside from the imminent long awaited Supreme Court (HD) decision on Go or no Go I like to again draw your attention to the somewhat complex issues with land use in the environs of Nunasvaara South. To fill you in the present Swedish Government established a Reindeer land committe (Renmarkskommitten) in 2022 to look into the until then prevailing , and to my mind PC, view that the reindeer owning Sami represented by the Sami co-ops, ie Talma in our case, were the original owners of the land from the Scandes mountain chain in the northwest up to the village of Vittangi in the southeast. Essentially all of the upper reaches of the Torne river and its north western catchment area.

Moreover, the Sami claim historical status as Aboriginal land owners including hunting and fishing rights on all 'their' land in a separate court case versus the Kingdom of Sweden. Like some independent Lordly fiefdom in ancient Scotland.

They have also promoted themselves to the UN status of 'native original population' or 'ur people' of the Arctic, equivalent to native Indians in North and South America, Eskimos in Greenland and indeed Aboriginies as well as Maoris of the South.

However, the Reindeer land Committe asked historians from the Universities in Luleå and Umeå to look into the Sami claims of long time squatting on this land since the ice retreated, anointing them to their rightful place and standing as overlords of all of their lands and possessions.

A report was submitted to the Swedish Government in August 2023.

And lo and behold the researchers, that were not beholden to an agenda of native populism, found that yes, there was historical evidence for competing fishing, hunting and farming use of the land claimed by settlers from the lower reaches of the Torne river valley.

Settlers that spoke Finnish and were a distinct population from the nomadic Sami population that speak a different language and differ culturally from the settler families.

The outpost of Vittangi was first settled in the wilderness of the Torne river valley in 1674. By my forefathers that used to travel up and down the Torne river by boat many years before then. Hundreds of years before roads were built.

The Cultivation Border separating farming, hunting lands and fishing waters of the early Settler families from the nomadic Sami with their reindeer was drawn after consultation with my forefathers and the Sami. The lay of the land was communicated directly to the visiting Border commission.

Our own land is, until this day, notably located upstream and past, the bridge across the Torne river 15 km upstream of Vittangi.

The road to the mine site of Nunasvaara south goes over this bridge which is the only one for
miles upstream and downstream of the river and was constructed specifically to give direct access to the eastern banks where the river narrows.

The access road to Nunasvaara South mine site connects with the main road 395 between Vittangi and Svappavaara as mentioned in another posting.

We claim ownership to this land, in the overlap between Sami and Settler jurisdiction, and to mark this there stands, just here, at the nexus between the past and the future, a family hunting and fishing lodge, within a shot by bow and arrow from Nunasvaara South on the opposite side of the Torne river just upstream of the bridge.

See map below of Northern part of Sweden and Norway bisected by the geographical demarcations of the different Sami co-ops. Also find the Cultivation border indicated by the red line running across these demarcations.

I have tried to mark the location of Vittangi with a V at the confluence of Vittangi and Torne rivers downstream of this historical Border. The distance from Vittangi to Luleå by the Gulf of Bothnia in the bottom right corner is 300 km by road.

1000012664.jpg


As a concession to the Talma reindeer lords they were granted the grace by the Border Commission allowing their reindeer to graze on the forested banks of the Torne river down stream of the Cultivation border up to the village of Vittangi, but restricted to the winter months between November and April.

And this is the focal point where the SC is finding itself adjudicating the merits of the Talma v Talga claim to the use of this valuable land. Talmas reindeer are restricted, by many hundred year of practice and law, to remain in this area only during the winter months, grazing lichen and other vegetation. This area now just so happens to overlap with one of the richest finds of natural graphite. And the mining in the off season for reindeer winter grazing has been raised by Talga as a solution for multi use of this contested land as you know.

Finally another thought that struck me as a Botanist. What if the reindeer actually are grazing indicriminately on both rare plant, fungi and lichen in this area that the local environmentalists and the Swedish Nature Protection Agency claim are extremely worthy of protection?

That would be a very paradoxical situation pitting the over grazing greedy reindeer and their overlords versus the local environmentalist concerned with protecting fragile flora and fungi against the threats from the ill effects of both mining AND industrial agriculture, in this case reindeer slaughtered for their meat.

My solution, to resolve this brewing dispute. Ban reindeer from this area year around, in the process removing Talma and their overlords out of the dispute and for Talga to keep up the dialogue with the local concerned greenies to protect the very valuable Smaller Liverwort and Narrow footed Tooth fungi. Trust me. I kid you not.
 
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Diogenese

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As an aside from the imminent long awaited Supreme Court (HD) decision on Go or no Go. The present Swedish Government established a Reindeer land committe (Renmarkskommitten) in 2022 to look into the until then prevailing , and to my mind PC, view that the reindeer owning Sami represented by the Sami co-ops, ie Talma in our case, were the original owners of the land from the Scandes mountain chain in the west up to the village of Vittangi in the east. Essentially all of the upper reaches of the Torne river and its north western catchment area. Moreover, the Sami claim historical status as Aboriginal land owners including hunting rights on all 'their' land in a separate court case.

They have promoted themselves to the UN status of 'native original population' or 'ur people' of the Arctic, equivalent to native Indians in North and South America, Eskimos in Greenland and indeed Aboriginies as well as Maoris of the South.
However, the Committe asked historians from the Universities in Luleå and Umeå to look into the Sami claims of having been squatting on this land since the ice retreated.
A report was submitted to the Swedish Government in August 2023.
And lo and behold the researchers, that were not beholden to an agenda of native populism, found that yes there was historical evidence for competing fishing, hunting and farming use of the land claimed by Talm by settlers from the lower reaches of the Torne river valley. Settlers that spoke Finnish and were a distinct, but sometimes intermingled, population from the nomadic Sami population. These are my forefathers and we know we have always been fishing, hunting and farming in the Torne river valley well upstream of the village of Vittangi. V was first settled in 1674. Actually the land on both sides of the Torne river, and notably upstream and past, the bridge across the Torne river to Nunasvaara south where to this day my family own a hunting and fishing lodge within a shot by bow and arrow from Nunasvaara South.
This local knowledge of the Finnish settlers, my forefathers, was the deciding factor for the drawing of the Border separating Sami grazing land from settler farming land in the late 1800s. See map below with the Cultivation border drawn by a State Government Commision in 1867 drawn in red. I have tried to mark the location of Vittangi at the confluence of Vittangi and Torne rivers well downstream of this Border.

View attachment 58528

As a concession to the Talma reindeer herders they were given the right to let their reindeer graze on the forested banks of the Torne river down stream of the Cultivation border up to the village of Vittangi during the winter months between October and March.

And this is the focal point where the SC is finding itself adjudicating the merits of the Talma v Talga claim to the use of this valuable land. Talmas reindeer are restricted by law to remain in this area during the winter months grazing lichen and other vegetation. This area just so happens to overlap with one of the richest finds of natural graphite.
Finally another thought that struck me as a Botanist. What if the reindeer actually are grazing on the rare plant and fungi in this area that the environmentalists claim are extremely worthy of protection?
That would be a very paradoxical situation pitting the over grazing greedy reindeer and their overlords versus the environmentalist protecting fragile flora and fungi against the threats from the ill effects of industrial agriculture in this case reindeer.
My solution, to resolve this dispute ban reindeer from this area year around, in the process taking out Talma of the equation and for Talga to keep up the dialogue with the local concerned greenies to protect the very valuable Smaller Liverwort and Narrow footed Tooth fungi. Trust me.
Maybe our negotiation strategy was flawed.

Perhaps we should have held off on making the winter mining pause until the 11th hour so the Sami would see it as a hard-won victory. As it stands, it seems we get no credit for it,
 
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brewm0re

Regular
Whilst we walk around like Sylvester Cat aimlessly waiting, I’m confident MT will explode with ANNs after these reindeer/orange-outfit/fungi issues are all squared away…. Here’s hoping he slays every horse to get this sp roaring too!
 
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Semmel

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Whilst we walk around like Sylvester Cat aimlessly waiting, I’m confident MT will explode with ANNs after these reindeer/orange-outfit/fungi issues are all squared away…. Here’s hoping he slays every horse to get this sp roaring too!
I am sure of it. That cat could wery well have been him, except he probably has a million other things to take care of as well..
 
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cosors

👀
As an aside from the imminent long awaited Supreme Court (HD) decision on Go or no Go I like to again draw your attention to the somewhat complex issues with land use in the environs of Nunasvaara South. To fill you in the present Swedish Government established a Reindeer land committe (Renmarkskommitten) in 2022 to look into the until then prevailing , and to my mind PC, view that the reindeer owning Sami represented by the Sami co-ops, ie Talma in our case, were the original owners of the land from the Scandes mountain chain in the northwest up to the village of Vittangi in the southeast. Essentially all of the upper reaches of the Torne river and its north western catchment area.

Moreover, the Sami claim historical status as Aboriginal land owners including hunting and fishing rights on all 'their' land in a separate court case versus the Kingdom of Sweden. Like some independent Lordly fiefdom in ancient Scotland.

They have also promoted themselves to the UN status of 'native original population' or 'ur people' of the Arctic, equivalent to native Indians in North and South America, Eskimos in Greenland and indeed Aboriginies as well as Maoris of the South.

However, the Reindeer land Committe asked historians from the Universities in Luleå and Umeå to look into the Sami claims of long time squatting on this land since the ice retreated, anointing them to their rightful place and standing as overlords of all of their lands and possessions.

A report was submitted to the Swedish Government in August 2023.

And lo and behold the researchers, that were not beholden to an agenda of native populism, found that yes, there was historical evidence for competing fishing, hunting and farming use of the land claimed by settlers from the lower reaches of the Torne river valley.

Settlers that spoke Finnish and were a distinct population from the nomadic Sami population that speak a different language and differ culturally from the settler families.

The outpost of Vittangi was first settled by the Finnish speaking settlers in the wilderness 1674. By my forefathers that used to travel up and down the Torne river by boat many years before then. Hundreds of years before roads were built.

The Cultivation Border separating farming, hunting lands and fishing waters of the early Settler families from the nomadic Sami with their reindeer was drawn after consultation with my forefathers and the Sami. The lay of the land was communicated directly to the visiting Border commission.

Our own land is, until this day, notably located upstream and past, the bridge across the Torne river 15 km upstream of Vittangi.

The road to the mine site of Nunasvaara south goes over this bridge which is the only one for
miles upstream and downstream of the river and was constructed specifically to give direct access to the eastern banks where the river narrows.

The access road to Nunasvaara South mine site connects with the main road 395 between Vittangi and Svappavaara as mentioned in another posting.

We claim ownership to this land, in the overlap between Sami and Settler jurisdiction, and to mark this there stands, just here, at the nexus between the past and the future, a family hunting and fishing lodge, within a shot by bow and arrow from Nunasvaara South on the opposite side of the Torne river just upstream of the bridge.

See map below of Northern part of Sweden and Norway bisected by the geographical demarcations of the different Sami co-ops. Also find the Cultivation border indicated by the red line running across these demarcations.

I have tried to mark the location of Vittangi with a V at the confluence of Vittangi and Torne rivers downstream of this historical Border.

View attachment 58528

As a concession to the Talma reindeer lords they were granted the grace by the Border Commission to allow their reindeer to graze on the forested banks of the Torne river down stream of the Cultivation border up to the village of Vittangi, but restricted to the winter months between November and April.

And this is the focal point where the SC is finding itself adjudicating the merits of the Talma v Talga claim to the use of this valuable land. Talmas reindeer are restricted, by many hundred year of practice and law, to remain in this area only during the winter months grazing lichen and other vegetation. This area now just so happens to overlap with one of the richest finds of natural graphite. And the mining in the off season for reindeer grazing has been raised by Talga as a solution for multi use of this contested land as you know.

Finally another thought that struck me as a Botanist. What if the reindeer actually are grazing indicriminately on both rare plant, fungi and lichen in this area that the local environmentalists and the Swedish Nature Protection Agency claim are extremely worthy of protection?

That would be a very paradoxical situation pitting the over grazing greedy reindeer and their overlords versus the local environmentalist concerned with protecting fragile flora and fungi against the threats from the ill effects of both mining AND industrial agriculture, in this case reindeer slaughtered for their meat.

My solution, to resolve this brewing dispute. Ban reindeer from this area year around, in the process taking out Talma and their overlords out of the equation and for Talga to keep up the dialogue with the local concerned greenies to protect the very valuable Smaller Liverwort and Narrow footed Tooth fungi. Trust me. I kid you not.
I think your idea is very good. Just take the other side seriously. Why not?! But I'm afraid none of that matters. They would say no to everything.
What always gives me hope is the national interest. Once authorised, it must not be hindered in any way, not even by protests.

I really enjoy your posts and reports. I have got so into it up there that I can directly understand everything you write except that your words fill my theory with practical experience. I even know off the top of my head which hunting lodges you are talking about. It's a beautiful area there. Here are some pictures from the bridge and the surrounding area: Link

1709660625957.png


1709660573822.png


I started with the red line or boundary Odlingsgränsen you're talking about here in the bar with the very first post. It took me ages to research it all and dig around in the history. I still haven't fully understood the exact laws. But probably very few people do. I had memorised that they didn't own the land as they always proclaim, but I read that they have the right to use it 'before the Crown', i.e. to hunt or fish or allow someone else to do so.

We claim ownership to this land...
Do I understand correctly that you are referring to your family? I hope they are not among the original plaintiffs 😂
In any case, there was one plaintiff among the dozens with such a lodge at the river in the main proceedings, as far as I remember.
But that's not the issue now. It's just the two Sami communities, two single persons and the conservation organisation with their appeal to the Supreme Court.
For whom fungi are more important than the global climate. And the Sami, I do not believe that reindeer husbandry will be hindered. I have studied intensively the maps. I have a German interview with exactly our Sami. It's so one-sided that I think it's pure propaganda and that's why I haven't posted it here. What particularly annoys me is that the broadcaster is partly paid by our tax money.

____
Reminds me of Semmel's topic today and Tesla 😉 Musk wants to expand a railway terminal to increase transport capacity by rail. Left-wing extremists and environmentalists are against this and vice versa practical in favour of more transport on the motorway with ICE trucks. They have therefore carried out an arson attack on the power line, a black out for Tesla, who are building climate-damaging EVs, and parts of Berlin. Next door, they are occupying a monoculture of pine trees to prevent Tesla from producing more EVs and using environmentally friendly rail transport.
It becomes particularly funny and absurd when you listen to voices from the population. One of them actually says:
Biologist Christiane (62) from Erkner: "The protest against Tesla is right! Tesla boss Elon Musk is a megalomaniac, he's coming here just to make money. I don't vote Green, but every tree that is felled for the Tesla plant hurts me! And who is actually going to be able to afford these expensive cars?"
As a biologist she should know that the pine monocultures in the area are a big problem. Either she wasn't good at her studies or she's just stupid or ignorant and doesn't want to see the reality; just like our antis. For one thing, these are not diverse forests and offer little habitat, and for another, such forests pose an enormous fire hazard, as Semmel knows very well. So they are fighting on a broad front for the wrong cause and neither for the environment nor for climate protection. Just like in our case.
[By the way @Semmel did you know that the head of the waterworks says that the water is not the problem, but the pumping plant, which is not designed for it? I only heard this once in an interview on DLF radio and found nothing in writing about it, obvious.]

If someone is a serious environmentalist, they can only fall into howling and despair these days.

There are too many deliberately blind activists and too few who seriously want to protect the creation.
____

If you are interested in maps, I have been working intensively with map material for the last few years and here at TSE you can find the right map for almost any topic, whether it's maps about ownership or very detailed Sami maps, minerals or environmental topics. Just chat to me and I'll try to find the right one.

Since I have started to study the maps, especially the Sami maps, I have doubts that the information about essential use is not correct. The terrain runs along the ridge and only in the north by the road is there a kind of hut or shed for fodder. But there is not the mine site. But that's just my guess from a distance. I have the feeling that they are exaggerating. Only the court didn't buy it. Dio maybe has the feeling that we might have pulled the joker too early. I would rather assume that Talga would not have received the approval in the first place without this compromise or that it was part of the negotiation from the outset. And as Semmel already said, the Sami sue against everything that can be sued, regardless of the reason for the Green Deal or not. Everything is a threat for them and wind mills are green genocide. But I understand your tactical approach! Take it and them serious and not ambiguous as they do it themselves.

If you're ever on site, why don't you take some nice photos for us? That would be very nice!

Thank you as always for your very informative insight, which helps us to better understand everything on site.

Just my thoughts at the bar. Sometimes it can be frustrating. To see that some are fighting for right thing and to be one sided declared to do the opposite. That's not fair. But what is fair anyway. Who wants to protect the climate and creation?
 
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cosors

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I'm listening to the next concert from the small town of Rudolstadt where Talga is working on Si and coatings and other crazy stuff. The 2022 concert was absolutely brilliant. This one from 23 is also very interesting - techno meets jazz.

Jazz Intoxication
Screenshot_2024-03-05-21-36-12-92_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

 
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cosors

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I think your idea is very good. Just take the other side seriously. Why not?! But I'm afraid none of that matters. They would say no to everything.
What always gives me hope is the national interest. Once authorised, it must not be hindered in any way, not even by protests.

I really enjoy your posts and reports. I have got so into it up there that I can directly understand everything you write except that your words fill my theory with practical experience. I even know off the top of my head which hunting lodges you are talking about. It's a beautiful area there. Here are some pictures from the bridge and the surrounding area: Link

View attachment 58549

View attachment 58548


I started with the red line or boundary Odlingsgränsen you're talking about here in the bar with the very first post. It took me ages to research it all and dig around in the history. I still haven't fully understood the exact laws. But probably very few people do. I had memorised that they didn't own the land as they always proclaim, but I read that they have the right to use it 'before the Crown', i.e. to hunt or fish or allow someone else to do so.


Do I understand correctly that you are referring to your family? I hope they are not among the original plaintiffs 😂
In any case, there was one plaintiff among the dozens with such a lodge at the river in the main proceedings, as far as I remember.
But that's not the issue now. It's just the two Sami communities and the conservation organisation with their appeal to the Supreme Court.
For whom fungi are more important than the global climate. And the Sami, I do not believe that reindeer husbandry will be hindered. I have studied intensively the maps. I have a German interview with exactly our Sami. It's so one-sided that I think it's pure propaganda and that's why I haven't posted it here. What particularly annoys me is that the broadcaster is partly paid by our tax money.

____
Reminds me of Semmel's topic today and Tesla 😉 Musk wants to expand a railway terminal to increase transport capacity by rail. Left-wing extremists and environmentalists are against this and vice versa practical in favour of more transport on the motorway with ICE trucks. They have therefore carried out an arson attack on the power line, a black out for Tesla, who are building climate-damaging EVs, and parts of Berlin. Next door, they are occupying a monoculture of pine trees to prevent Tesla from producing more EVs and using environmentally friendly rail transport.
It becomes particularly funny and absurd when you listen to voices from the population. One of them actually says:
Biologist Christiane (62) from Erkner: "The protest against Tesla is right! Tesla boss Elon Musk is a megalomaniac, he's coming here just to make money. I don't vote Green, but every tree that is felled for the Tesla plant hurts me! And who is actually going to be able to afford these expensive cars?"
As a biologist she should know that the pine monocultures in the area are a big problem. Either she wasn't good at her studies or she's just stupid or ignorant and doesn't want to see the reality; just like our antis. For one thing, these are not diverse forests and offer little habitat, and for another, such forests pose an enormous fire hazard, as Semmel knows very well. So they are fighting on a broad front for the wrong cause and neither for the environment nor for climate protection. Just like in our case.
[By the way @Semmel did you know that the head of the waterworks says that the water is not the problem, but the pumping plant, which is not designed for it? I only heard this once in an interview on DLF radio and found nothing in writing about it, obvious.]

If someone is a serious environmentalist, they can only fall into howling and despair these days.

There are too many deliberately blind activists and too few who seriously want to protect the creation.
____

If you are interested in maps, I have been working intensively with map material for the last few years and here at TSE you can find the right map for almost any topic, whether it's maps about ownership or very detailed Sami maps, minerals or environmental topics. Just chat to me and I'll try to find the right one.

Since I have started to study the maps, especially the Sami maps, I have doubts that the information about essential use is not correct. The terrain runs along the ridge and only in the north by the road is there a kind of hut or shed for fodder. But there is not the mine site. But that's just my guess from a distance. I have the feeling that they are exaggerating. Only the court didn't buy it. Dio maybe has the feeling that we might have pulled the joker too early. I would rather assume that Talga would not have received the approval in the first place without this compromise or that it was part of the negotiation from the outset. And as Semmel already said, the Sami sue against everything that can be sued, regardless of the reason for the Green Deal or not. Everything is a threat for them and wind mills are green genocide. But I understand your tactical approach! Take it and them serious and not ambiguous as they do it themselves.

If you're ever on site, why don't you take some nice photos for us? That would be very nice!

Thank you as always for your very informative insight, which helps us to better understand everything on site.

Just my thoughts at the bar. Sometimes it can be frustrating. To see that some are fighting for right thing and to be one sided declared to do the opposite. That's not fair. But what is fair anyway. Who wants to protect the climate and creation?
Musk:
"They are either the stupidest eco-terrorists in the world or they are puppets of those who have no good environmental goals."
 
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