Affenhorst
Regular
Imagine time away from the marketI'll just leave a happy Christmas here for all of youenjoy your time away from the market..
I get confusing feelings inside when there are no stonks to watch.
The Talga Bar
- Thread starter cosors
- Start date
I get confusing feelings inside when there are no stonks to watch.HNY Cosors and all!Since you are usually earlier than us here I wish you all a happy new year!
Just so I don't forget
Looks like we can add the resource upgrade into the busy Q1 2023 expected announcement list.
It will be interesting to see if Talga hold a quarterly investor webinar again given the timing will likely be early Feb, which is right in the middle of the scheduled Court hearing on permits.
Also, if we haven’t heard by end of this month on the ACC binding offtake, i can imagine there will be a lot of questions on the status of negotiations.
Hopefully they keep doing the webinars as i find them extremely informative and I’ll certainly have half a dozen questions ready to go depending if we get any updates between now and then!
Also, if we haven’t heard by end of this month on the ACC binding offtake, i can imagine there will be a lot of questions on the status of negotiations.
Hopefully they keep doing the webinars as i find them extremely informative and I’ll certainly have half a dozen questions ready to go depending if we get any updates between now and then!
WheresTheMonkey
Regular
A bit of strength in the SP this week albeit on low volumes.
Could be..................
1) I'm reading too much into that
2) People starting to take a position ahead of permit hearings
3) ACC deal announcement coming next week
4) Resource upgrade out next week
5) MT and his gang, including Tent City, doing the usual quarterly pump and dump to pay their Amex card bills following Christmas .
Could be..................
1) I'm reading too much into that
2) People starting to take a position ahead of permit hearings
3) ACC deal announcement coming next week
4) Resource upgrade out next week
5) MT and his gang, including Tent City
, doing the usual quarterly pump and dump to pay their Amex card bills following Christmas .
Haha -Yeah I’d love to take credit for getting the share price above $1.50….even better if it was above $2!!A bit of strength in the SP this week albeit on low volumes.
Could be..................
1) I'm reading too much into that
2) People starting to take a position ahead of permit hearings
3) ACC deal announcement coming next week
4) Resource upgrade out next week
5) MT and his gang, including Tent City
I listened to Matt Fenley’s December podcast earlier today and he had a short segment focussed on graphite and he retained there is a disconnect between graphite concentrate prices going up ~30% in 2022 and graphite stocks going down 5%! Furthermore, Benchmark had a stat a week or so back showing the batteries had become graphite’s largest end use market - so hopefully that growing demand/deficit will translate into share price improvement if we get a few favourable key decisions/deals done in the next 1-2months.
WheresTheMonkey
Regular
Semmel
Regular
You can keep herI really love the bubble gum monkey
cosors
👀
I love this gifA bit of strength in the SP this week albeit on low volumes.
Could be..................
1) I'm reading too much into that
2) People starting to take a position ahead of permit hearings
3) ACC deal announcement coming next week
4) Resource upgrade out next week
5) MT and his gang, including Tent City
cosors
👀
Just FYI. Money seems to be available only with permit. Procurement law should be the same throughout the EU.
Keliber recently acquired the environmental and building permits for a lithium chemical plant in the city of Kokkola in Finland. The environmental permit means that preparations for the operative phase can begin. Keliber’s CEO has called the acquisition of the environmental permit “a remarkable achievement”.
The company managed to raise €500 million for the project – by way of two share issues and one loan facility.
The zoning for Keliber’s Syväjärvi, Rapasaari and Outovesi mining areas and the Päiväneva concentrator area have also been approved by the Kokkola City Council and the Municipal Councils of Kaustinen and Kronoby. In Syväjärvi, extraction of the material necessary for constructing roads and other areas has already begun.
The planned annual production of the lithium chemical plant is 15,000 tonnes of lithium hydroxide monohydrate. Its primary raw material is spodumene concentrate, which Keliber will produce from its own ore in the Päiväneva area of Kaustinen.
https://erma.eu/erma-partner-secures-permit-for-lithium-plant-and-raises-eur-500-million/
and...
“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
As demand for critical raw materials to fuel the green transition surges, the German government announced on Tuesday (3 January) that it will revamp its raw materials strategy to reduce dependencies and avoid supply shortages.
With the war in Ukraine exposing the hazards of over-reliance on a single supplier for energy imports, Germany is looking into reducing similar dependencies when it comes to critical raw materials.
Demand for critical raw materials such as lithium, rare earths or graphite is expected to skyrocket in the coming years. According to estimates by the International Energy Agency, demand for lithium – an essential part of batteries – is expected to increase by 42 times by 2040.
The new strategy seeks to avoid potential supply risks that come with the surge in demand.
“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
However, critics have argued that the German raw materials strategy, published in 2020, is too passive and lacks ambition.
While the last strategy betted on the prudence of companies and merely flanked corporate efforts to secure supply chains, the revised roadmap is slated to take a more assertive approach in recognition of the tense geopolitical situation and the special market situation for these commodities.
In September 2022, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proposed a Critical Raw Materials Act that should boost the resilience of supply chains and reduce dependencies. However, as most of the competencies in the area of mining lie within the member states, additional measures on the national level are needed.
According to a study by the German Institute for Economic Research, Germany is 100% dependent on foreign suppliers for 21 out of 27 raw materials that are deemed critical.
To reduce these dependencies, the German government outlined three key areas of action.
First, Berlin is placing its bets on the circular economy and the recycling of these raw materials, as well as increasing resource efficiency. At the moment, Germany is only recycling around 13.4% of materials, though the European Commission proposed to double these numbers – a move enthusiastically received by the German government.
However, as products are only eligible for recycling at the end of their life cycle and will thus lag behind the skyrocketing demand increase, Germany is further betting on diversifying the supply chain and increasing extraction of critical raw materials on its home turf.
To boost the extraction of critical raw materials on German soil, the government plans to revamp the federal mining regulation to facilitate the extraction of domestic raw materials and ensure high ecological standards.
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
While Berlin will continue to be reliant on imports, the government aims to diversify the number of countries it imports these materials from. To move beyond its dependency on single-supplier countries, such as China, Germany will seek to build strategic partnerships with states such as Chile, Australia or Canada, the document states.
However, whether critical raw materials are eligible for being imported from certain countries will largely depend on their adherence to environmental, social and governance standards (ESG).
As such, diversification will only be possible if other international players adhere to these standards, the document argues. Germany will thus push for the adoption of international ESG standards with like-minded countries across the globe.
....
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...aw-materials-strategy-to-tackle-dependencies/
Only unfortunately this country is politically almost blind and probably does not find the solution even when it sits in the face
(think of Finland and lithium above or us and Sweden) Sweden - what is it?
An example that NIMBYs exist not only in Norrbotten but govern us:
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
In other words, if a country in Europe promotes raw materials with the same European guidelines Germany will not get its fingers dirty. This is perfidious German policy and the reason why I am very glad that Germany is subordinated to the EU and its interests.
Germany hardly mines anything itself anymore. Mining is at an end. And if a country with the same standards as each other EU land mines e.g. lithium as Germany could or if the standards are ok somewhere in the world then Germany will not support or promote mining in its own country. This should also have an influence on VUL I think.
This country is one big NIMBY. Store CO²? No way in our country...
"ERMA partner secures permit for lithium plant and raises €500 million in funding
ERMA is pleased to report on the recent success of one of its partners, Finnish mining and battery-chemical company Keliber, which constitutes both a significant permit approval and a windfall investment of €500 million.Keliber recently acquired the environmental and building permits for a lithium chemical plant in the city of Kokkola in Finland. The environmental permit means that preparations for the operative phase can begin. Keliber’s CEO has called the acquisition of the environmental permit “a remarkable achievement”.
The company managed to raise €500 million for the project – by way of two share issues and one loan facility.
The zoning for Keliber’s Syväjärvi, Rapasaari and Outovesi mining areas and the Päiväneva concentrator area have also been approved by the Kokkola City Council and the Municipal Councils of Kaustinen and Kronoby. In Syväjärvi, extraction of the material necessary for constructing roads and other areas has already begun.
With demand for lithium products estimated to grow by 20 percent per year in Europe and geopolitical concerns affecting non-EU supply, Keliber will be a core asset for Europe. Keliber aims to produce sustainable, high-purity lithium chemicals by utilising its own ore and to align its production with the strongest expected growth of lithium demand in Europe.
The planned annual production of the lithium chemical plant is 15,000 tonnes of lithium hydroxide monohydrate. Its primary raw material is spodumene concentrate, which Keliber will produce from its own ore in the Päiväneva area of Kaustinen.
The construction of the lithium chemical plant is scheduled to start this summer, with production to get underway in 2024. "
https://erma.eu/erma-partner-secures-permit-for-lithium-plant-and-raises-eur-500-million/
and...
"Germany to revamp raw materials strategy to tackle dependencies
3. Jan. 2023“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
As demand for critical raw materials to fuel the green transition surges, the German government announced on Tuesday (3 January) that it will revamp its raw materials strategy to reduce dependencies and avoid supply shortages.
With the war in Ukraine exposing the hazards of over-reliance on a single supplier for energy imports, Germany is looking into reducing similar dependencies when it comes to critical raw materials.
Demand for critical raw materials such as lithium, rare earths or graphite is expected to skyrocket in the coming years. According to estimates by the International Energy Agency, demand for lithium – an essential part of batteries – is expected to increase by 42 times by 2040.
The new strategy seeks to avoid potential supply risks that come with the surge in demand.
“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
However, critics have argued that the German raw materials strategy, published in 2020, is too passive and lacks ambition.
While the last strategy betted on the prudence of companies and merely flanked corporate efforts to secure supply chains, the revised roadmap is slated to take a more assertive approach in recognition of the tense geopolitical situation and the special market situation for these commodities.
Tackling dependencies
Germany, alongside the rest of the EU, is currently heavily dependent on non-democratic countries for its imports of critical raw materials such as lithium, raw earths or graphite.In September 2022, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proposed a Critical Raw Materials Act that should boost the resilience of supply chains and reduce dependencies. However, as most of the competencies in the area of mining lie within the member states, additional measures on the national level are needed.
According to a study by the German Institute for Economic Research, Germany is 100% dependent on foreign suppliers for 21 out of 27 raw materials that are deemed critical.
To reduce these dependencies, the German government outlined three key areas of action.
First, Berlin is placing its bets on the circular economy and the recycling of these raw materials, as well as increasing resource efficiency. At the moment, Germany is only recycling around 13.4% of materials, though the European Commission proposed to double these numbers – a move enthusiastically received by the German government.
However, as products are only eligible for recycling at the end of their life cycle and will thus lag behind the skyrocketing demand increase, Germany is further betting on diversifying the supply chain and increasing extraction of critical raw materials on its home turf.
To boost the extraction of critical raw materials on German soil, the government plans to revamp the federal mining regulation to facilitate the extraction of domestic raw materials and ensure high ecological standards.
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
While Berlin will continue to be reliant on imports, the government aims to diversify the number of countries it imports these materials from. To move beyond its dependency on single-supplier countries, such as China, Germany will seek to build strategic partnerships with states such as Chile, Australia or Canada, the document states.
However, whether critical raw materials are eligible for being imported from certain countries will largely depend on their adherence to environmental, social and governance standards (ESG).
As such, diversification will only be possible if other international players adhere to these standards, the document argues. Germany will thus push for the adoption of international ESG standards with like-minded countries across the globe.
....
"France and Germany outline priorities for upcoming EU Raw Materials Act
Germany and France have outlined their priorities for the EU’s upcoming Critical Raw Materials Act in a position paper that aims at boosting the resilience of supply chains and decreasing Europe’s dependence on foreign suppliers like China. "https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...aw-materials-strategy-to-tackle-dependencies/
Only unfortunately this country is politically almost blind and probably does not find the solution even when it sits in the face
(think of Finland and lithium above or us and Sweden) Sweden - what is it?An example that NIMBYs exist not only in Norrbotten but govern us:
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
In other words, if a country in Europe promotes raw materials with the same European guidelines Germany will not get its fingers dirty. This is perfidious German policy and the reason why I am very glad that Germany is subordinated to the EU and its interests.
Germany hardly mines anything itself anymore. Mining is at an end. And if a country with the same standards as each other EU land mines e.g. lithium as Germany could or if the standards are ok somewhere in the world then Germany will not support or promote mining in its own country. This should also have an influence on VUL I think.
This country is one big NIMBY. Store CO²? No way in our country...
Last edited:
cosors
👀
Just FYI. Money seems to be available only with permit. Procurement law should be the same throughout the EU.
"ERMA partner secures permit for lithium plant and raises €500 million in funding
ERMA is pleased to report on the recent success of one of its partners, Finnish mining and battery-chemical company Keliber, which constitutes both a significant permit approval and a windfall investment of €500 million.
Keliber recently acquired the environmental and building permits for a lithium chemical plant in the city of Kokkola in Finland. The environmental permit means that preparations for the operative phase can begin. Keliber’s CEO has called the acquisition of the environmental permit “a remarkable achievement”.
The company managed to raise €500 million for the project – by way of two share issues and one loan facility.
The zoning for Keliber’s Syväjärvi, Rapasaari and Outovesi mining areas and the Päiväneva concentrator area have also been approved by the Kokkola City Council and the Municipal Councils of Kaustinen and Kronoby. In Syväjärvi, extraction of the material necessary for constructing roads and other areas has already begun.
With demand for lithium products estimated to grow by 20 percent per year in Europe and geopolitical concerns affecting non-EU supply, Keliber will be a core asset for Europe. Keliber aims to produce sustainable, high-purity lithium chemicals by utilising its own ore and to align its production with the strongest expected growth of lithium demand in Europe.
The planned annual production of the lithium chemical plant is 15,000 tonnes of lithium hydroxide monohydrate. Its primary raw material is spodumene concentrate, which Keliber will produce from its own ore in the Päiväneva area of Kaustinen.
The construction of the lithium chemical plant is scheduled to start this summer, with production to get underway in 2024. "
https://erma.eu/erma-partner-secures-permit-for-lithium-plant-and-raises-eur-500-million/
and...
"Germany to revamp raw materials strategy to tackle dependencies
3. Jan. 2023
View attachment 26709
“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
As demand for critical raw materials to fuel the green transition surges, the German government announced on Tuesday (3 January) that it will revamp its raw materials strategy to reduce dependencies and avoid supply shortages.
With the war in Ukraine exposing the hazards of over-reliance on a single supplier for energy imports, Germany is looking into reducing similar dependencies when it comes to critical raw materials.
Demand for critical raw materials such as lithium, rare earths or graphite is expected to skyrocket in the coming years. According to estimates by the International Energy Agency, demand for lithium – an essential part of batteries – is expected to increase by 42 times by 2040.
The new strategy seeks to avoid potential supply risks that come with the surge in demand.
“The discrepancy between supply and demand that may arise leads at best to rising prices for intermediate and end products, but it can also lead to complete delivery failures,” a document outlining the cornerstones of the upcoming strategy reads.
However, critics have argued that the German raw materials strategy, published in 2020, is too passive and lacks ambition.
While the last strategy betted on the prudence of companies and merely flanked corporate efforts to secure supply chains, the revised roadmap is slated to take a more assertive approach in recognition of the tense geopolitical situation and the special market situation for these commodities.
Tackling dependencies
Germany, alongside the rest of the EU, is currently heavily dependent on non-democratic countries for its imports of critical raw materials such as lithium, raw earths or graphite.
In September 2022, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proposed a Critical Raw Materials Act that should boost the resilience of supply chains and reduce dependencies. However, as most of the competencies in the area of mining lie within the member states, additional measures on the national level are needed.
According to a study by the German Institute for Economic Research, Germany is 100% dependent on foreign suppliers for 21 out of 27 raw materials that are deemed critical.
To reduce these dependencies, the German government outlined three key areas of action.
First, Berlin is placing its bets on the circular economy and the recycling of these raw materials, as well as increasing resource efficiency. At the moment, Germany is only recycling around 13.4% of materials, though the European Commission proposed to double these numbers – a move enthusiastically received by the German government.
However, as products are only eligible for recycling at the end of their life cycle and will thus lag behind the skyrocketing demand increase, Germany is further betting on diversifying the supply chain and increasing extraction of critical raw materials on its home turf.
To boost the extraction of critical raw materials on German soil, the government plans to revamp the federal mining regulation to facilitate the extraction of domestic raw materials and ensure high ecological standards.
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
While Berlin will continue to be reliant on imports, the government aims to diversify the number of countries it imports these materials from. To move beyond its dependency on single-supplier countries, such as China, Germany will seek to build strategic partnerships with states such as Chile, Australia or Canada, the document states.
However, whether critical raw materials are eligible for being imported from certain countries will largely depend on their adherence to environmental, social and governance standards (ESG).
As such, diversification will only be possible if other international players adhere to these standards, the document argues. Germany will thus push for the adoption of international ESG standards with like-minded countries across the globe.
....
"France and Germany outline priorities for upcoming EU Raw Materials Act
Germany and France have outlined their priorities for the EU’s upcoming Critical Raw Materials Act in a position paper that aims at boosting the resilience of supply chains and decreasing Europe’s dependence on foreign suppliers like China. "
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...aw-materials-strategy-to-tackle-dependencies/
Only unfortunately this country is politically almost blind and probably does not find the solution even when it sits in the face
An example that NIMBYs exist not only in Norrbotten but govern us:
*While Germany is increasing its emphasis on domestic extraction of raw materials, such a localised approach should only be prioritised if it leads to “better environmental and social standards and strengthens the resilience of supply chains”, the document reads.
In other words, if a country in Europe promotes raw materials with the same European guidelines Germany will not get its fingers dirty. This is perfidious German policy and the reason why I am very glad that Germany is subordinated to the EU and its interests.
Germany hardly mines anything itself anymore. Mining is at an end. And if a country with the same standards as each other EU land mines e.g. lithium as Germany could or if the standards are ok somewhere in the world then Germany will not support or promote mining in its own country. This should also have an influence on VUL I think.
This country is one big NIMBY. Store CO²? No way in our country...
"Burned by Russia, Germany seeks to lessen dependence on China
Germany’s dependence on Chinese raw materials is increasingly attracting the government’s attention as it continues, together with the EU, to work at full speed on freeing itself from Russian economic dependence. EURACTIV Germany reports.In close cooperation with the EU, Germany wants to break away from its one-sided dependence on China, the government has said.
The country’s economy ministry is already hard at work as it is now working on a new raw materials strategy and aims to expand domestic extraction and diversify supply chains.
The new push for more strategic autonomy “concerns Russia on the one hand, where we need to break away from unilateral dependence on cheap energy, and China on the other, with a view to raw materials dependence”, Franziska Brantner, the parliamentary state secretary at the economy ministry, told EURACTIV.
In recent decades, the EU has become increasingly dependent on China for critical raw materials, with almost two in three resources it views as critical being extracted in the country.
“For too long, we have simply operated according to the principle of buying where it is cheapest, and these are often raw materials that come from China,” said Brantner.
Particularly worrying for the German government is the dependence in the first processing stage.
“Here, there are hardly any production sites independent of China. For many of the rare earths, this dependence is even almost 100%,” said Brantner.
However, the push for more strategic independence should not lead to protectionist tendencies because “we need globalisation – but a fair and sustainable one,” she added.
Germany is thus also banking on a diversification of the supply chains. Instead of maintaining the unilateral dependence on countries like China and Russia, the German government plans to expand cooperation with other non-Western states further and encourage German companies to invest in these third countries.
Brantner is thus heading to South America in mid-June, where she wants to promote stronger economic cooperation on renewable energies and raw materials.
Growing needs
According to World Bank estimates, demand for critical raw materials is expected to increase rapidly in the near future and grow by about 500% by 2050.
“Due to the exponential growth in demand, there is a risk that these existing dependencies will deepen even further,” EIT Raw Materials CEO Bernd Schäfer told EURACTIV.
According to him, the EU must now step up its efforts to diversify supply chains and target the extraction of these critical raw materials across the bloc.
The European Commission has already taken some initiatives in this regard. This includes increased investments into the circular economy, which aims to reduce the demand for critical raw materials while at the same time recycling the raw materials already processed in products.
The principle is already enshrined in some EU legislation. For example, the Battery Regulation in its current form stipulates that a certain percentage of the weight of batteries must be recycled for raw material recovery.
A similar approach is also taken in the Ecodesign Directive, currently under revision. Rare earths, in particular, have a current recycling rate of less than 4%, which is why the European Commission sees a lot of room for improvement in raw material recovery, particularly in this area.
“It is also important to reduce the overall consumption of raw materials and to recycle more. There is still great potential here for many raw materials. We are committed to a European circular economy in this regard,” said Brantner.
Raw Materials Act
However, the big bang on the issue of raw material independence is still to come as the Commission is currently working on its own proposal for strategic independence in critical raw materials – the Raw Materials Act.
Although it is not yet known what shape the new legislative proposal will take, it is expected that many of its provisions will be modelled after the Chips Act. The Chips Act addresses similar problems concerning supply bottlenecks for semiconductors.
Among other things, the Chips Act envisages more than doubling the production capacities of semiconductors in Europe by 2030.
However, from Germany’s point of view, this approach cannot simply be transferred to the Raw Materials Act.
“The Commission must not focus here solely on the increased extraction of raw materials in Europe,” Brantner stressed. Rather, it should also focus on the diversification of supply chains and increased investment in third countries, she added.
“We need fair, competitive conditions, so if we apply high sustainability standards to the extraction of raw materials at home, then this must also apply to the imported raw materials. In addition, we need more tools for monitoring and tracking supply chains and incentives for diversification, efficiency and recycling,” Brantner also said."
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...-taking-aim-at-chinese-raw-material-reliance/
It doesn't always have to be about Sweden. We also have high hopes because of German OEMs. The business community knows what's going on, but the political networks don't yet. Since I have known Talga I have been waiting for just one article in German and I don't mean a paragraph about the opening in Rudolstadt several years ago in some small local newspaper. Here in Germany it's not the companies that need to wake up, but the politicians.
=> By the way, VW is opening up like Porsche always did for the other two ways so no longer 100% EVs.
Last edited:
cosors
👀
I do not want to deprive you of this beautiful proposal to pass the time 
Thanks to @Rise from the ashes
Thanks to @Rise from the ashes
Rise from the ashes
Regular
I do not want to deprive you of this beautiful proposal to pass the time
Thanks to @Rise from the ashes
Don't get me started here I post enough shitpostings over on the BRN threads
cosors
👀
No issue you are welcome
That's what this place is for, see first post here so you know where you are, far far north in Sweden beyond the Arctic Circle stands this bar. Well, it is a bit dusty and our bartender is not always there, but for that we have all the drinks and spam and eggs Rise from the ashes
Regular
"I will spend more time here even if we are few"
It helps if you have a few more drinks you'll start seeing double.
Semmel
Regular
"I will spend more time here even if we are few"
It helps if you have a few more drinks you'll start seeing double.
Here, have another one! *Tosses Rise from the ashes a scotch* If you see double and I see double. We see quadrupled! Even better! Thats totally how it works, right?
Rise from the ashes
Regular
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