TLG Ann: Talga Investor Webinar - 9th Feb 2023, 12:53pm

[annb0t]

TLG Ann: Talga Investor Webinar
Price Sensitive: N
Date: 9th Feb 2023, 12:53pm

>>> Read announcement: Google: TLG Market Announcements

 

[Affenhorst]

Hopefully we get to learn something new. I also hope that this is not in preparation for another capital raise just yet. Would appreciate them doing that at a higher valuation post permit.

 

[Semmel]

Hopefully we get to learn something new. I also hope that this is not in preparation for another capital raise just yet. Would appreciate them doing that at a higher valuation post permit.

They do an investor seminar after each quarterly report for a few quarters now. I don't think it has anything to do with a CR. That will probably come next quarter

 

[teilenswert]

Have any of you submitted questions? If so, feel free to share them here. I've already gotten rid of one or the other question.

Resource upgrade
On 20.09.2022 you published the news "High grade graphite in latest drill results from Swedish Vittangi project". It stated, among other things: "The Company has commenced an update of the Vittangi graphite resource and this is expected to be complete in Q4 2022." So you are clearly behind schedule (or have I missed an announcement?). When can we expect results here? And why is this point absent from your latest presentations ("Targeted upcoming catalysts/milestones")?

Drilling
Are there plans for further drilling or preparatory activities in 2023? Or do you have a sufficient understanding of the existing deposits for the time being?

Expectations regarding EU support
If Talga gets the green light from the authorities in the near future, I expect that the way will be clear for Talga to be included in the list of "Important Projects of Common European Interest" and to receive massive support from various EU initiatives and to benefit, for example, from the "European Critical Raw Materials Act" and the "EU New Green Deal". Can you elaborate on what kind of support would be conceivable or you hope for? Does this include subsidies that do not have to be paid back? What do the timelines and processes for this applications look like?

Expansion plans
When can we expect more details on the production of anode material beyond phase 1? You have been communicating for quite a long time that phase 2 is to start in 2025-26, although I am always bothered by the word commences - of course I am more interested in when the phases can actually be successfully completed. In your corporate video you talk about "Talga materials are extracted and processed in our European refineries...", but as far as I know only one refinery is actually planned, isn't it?

Current testing of Talnode-C
You have provided insights that more than 20 companies have tested Talnode-C more or less intensively in the recent past. What percentage of these companies seems to be seriously interested in an OTA, what percentage has meanwhile expressed no interest in Talnode-C and what are the common reasons for this? How do you go about selecting the actual clients who may end up using your material? Personally, I was surprised that Verkor was positioned quite strongly by you as a potential customer, a company that is still quite young in the battery business and is therefore associated with greater risks. I would have rather expected VW, Northvolt, Freyr, Tesla or other players.

 

[Stares_into_Space]

I haven't submitted the question yet but I work in aviation and I'm very curious if talgas anodes have been tested with companies who are building evtol aircraft. I'd imagine it will be a question that might be more likely to be answered at a later time unfortunately

 

[teilenswert]

I obviously forgot to ask Talga about the current status of negotiations with ACC and their definition of "shortly". This possible deal was announced at the end of September last year, with the intention of closing it within 2 months - then it was announced that the negotiations should drag on and be concluded "shortly". I would have expected "shortly" in this context to be less than 2 months, obviously I was wrong.

 

[TentCity]

Have any of you submitted questions? If so, feel free to share them here. I've already gotten rid of one or the other question.

Resource upgrade
On 20.09.2022 you published the news "High grade graphite in latest drill results from Swedish Vittangi project". It stated, among other things: "The Company has commenced an update of the Vittangi graphite resource and this is expected to be complete in Q4 2022." So you are clearly behind schedule (or have I missed an announcement?). When can we expect results here? And why is this point absent from your latest presentations ("Targeted upcoming catalysts/milestones")?

Drilling
Are there plans for further drilling or preparatory activities in 2023? Or do you have a sufficient understanding of the existing deposits for the time being?

Expectations regarding EU support
If Talga gets the green light from the authorities in the near future, I expect that the way will be clear for Talga to be included in the list of "Important Projects of Common European Interest" and to receive massive support from various EU initiatives and to benefit, for example, from the "European Critical Raw Materials Act" and the "EU New Green Deal". Can you elaborate on what kind of support would be conceivable or you hope for? Does this include subsidies that do not have to be paid back? What do the timelines and processes for this applications look like?

Expansion plans
When can we expect more details on the production of anode material beyond phase 1? You have been communicating for quite a long time that phase 2 is to start in 2025-26, although I am always bothered by the word commences - of course I am more interested in when the phases can actually be successfully completed. In your corporate video you talk about "Talga materials are extracted and processed in our European refineries...", but as far as I know only one refinery is actually planned, isn't it?

Current testing of Talnode-C
You have provided insights that more than 20 companies have tested Talnode-C more or less intensively in the recent past. What percentage of these companies seems to be seriously interested in an OTA, what percentage has meanwhile expressed no interest in Talnode-C and what are the common reasons for this? How do you go about selecting the actual clients who may end up using your material? Personally, I was surprised that Verkor was positioned quite strongly by you as a potential customer, a company that is still quite young in the battery business and is therefore associated with greater risks. I would have rather expected VW, Northvolt, Freyr, Tesla or other players.

Good questions - thanks for sharing

In short, I‘ve asked 3-4 detailed questions specifically on Talnode-Si, consistent with my earlier posts clarifying:
- The flow sheet for Talnode-Si (recycling pathway vs sourcing Talphite from Vittangi
- Commericalisation timelines
- Funding strategy - is it the similar or different to Talnode C
- US future Plans and potential to tap into IRA funding

I‘ve also asked for updates where possible on:
- Offtake negotiations with ACC/Verkor
- What stage Cathode additive qualification process is currently
- Possible support from CRM Act, Net Zero Act, European Sovereignty Fund etc.

I somehow forgot the resource upgrade - so thanks for prompting them on that!

 

[Diogenese]

I obviously forgot to ask Talga about the current status of negotiations with ACC and their definition of "shortly". This possible deal was announced at the end of September last year, with the intention of closing it within 2 months - then it was announced that the negotiations should drag on and be concluded "shortly". I would have expected "shortly" in this context to be less than 2 months, obviously I was wrong.

Maybe "shortly" after the permit hearing.

 

[Vigdorian]

I wanted to ask a question - but it’s not really a webinar question so I’ll just put it out here if anyone wants to have a crack.

I’m always looking for risk mitigation so -

Talga have submitted an application for a mine permit from the land and environment court but in the court case it was suggested that there are up to 4 possible mines planned and the criticism against Talga was that the application should have been made collectively for all the mines. Does a negative ruling mean the end of the road for Talga or is there an appeal process ? Given the changing legislative landscape with the introduction of the new bill , could the additional proposed mines provide Talga with a loophole to reapply for permits ?

 

[Vigdorian]

I wanted to ask a question - but it’s not really a webinar question so I’ll just put it out here if anyone wants to have a crack.

I’m always looking for risk mitigation so -

Talga have submitted an application for a mine permit from the land and environment court but in the court case it was suggested that there are up to 4 possible mines planned and the criticism against Talga was that the application should have been made collectively for all the mines. Does a negative ruling mean the end of the road for Talga or is there an appeal process ? Given the changing legislative landscape with the introduction of the new bill , could the additional proposed mines provide Talga with a loophole to reapply for permits ?

The other question relates to cash burn (not really a webinar question because if permits are denied - it becomes irrelevant)

Talga has diversified and enhanced their product offering (e.g. cathode additives , talnode si ) and have opened additional centers of excellence for research within Europe. When considering the ongoing running expenses , legal fees , drilling, resource expansion , is there a concern to the growing cash burn which could potentially result in another capital raise this year which means more dilution if the permit decision is delayed (due 4-8 weeks after the trial) and if the capital structure is not decided within a short period thereafter. Is Talga juggling too many things at once ?

 

[Diogenese]

The other question relates to cash burn (not really a webinar question because if permits are denied - it becomes irrelevant)

Talga has diversified and enhanced their product offering (e.g. cathode additives , talnode si ) and have opened additional centers of excellence for research within Europe. When considering the ongoing running expenses , legal fees , drilling, resource expansion , is there a concern to the growing cash burn which could potentially result in another capital raise this year which means more dilution if the permit decision is delayed (due 4-8 weeks after the trial) and if the capital structure is not decided within a short period thereafter. Is Talga juggling too many things at once ?

A major impediment facing EV manufacturers is range anxiety.

Talga's research has produced Talnode-Si, which has 5 times the capacity of a standard Li battery. Just 9% Talnode-Si mixed with a graphite anode produces a 40% increase in capacity.

Talga has been developing Talnode-Si since 2018 at its facilities in Cambridge, UK, with commercial samples being produced at its pilot facility in Rudolstadt, Germany.
...
In parallel, the company is conducting feasibility work towards accelerating commercial Talnode-Si production options. The company said that negotiations with leading global EV manufacturers regarding supply volumes have commenced and production site location selection in Europe is well underway.
Posted on 27 December 2022 in Batteries, Market Background, Materials

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/12/20221227-talnode.html

Another impediment to the uptake of EVs is the charging time.

If Talga were to ignore these problems, their market outlook would have a very short horizon. There are many competitors working on Si/graphite anodes.

Mercedes-Backed Farasis Says Silicon Boosts Battery Energy 25% - BNN Bloomberg

Oct 7, 2021

Mercedes-Backed Farasis Says Silicon Boosts Battery Energy 25%

Gabrielle Coppola, Bloomberg News

(Bloomberg) -- Farasis Energy, the Chinese battery manufacturer backed by Mercedes-Benz, said a lithium-silicon battery it’s developing with Group14 Technologies Inc. passed a key performance test, paving the way for its commercialization in electric vehicles.

Group14, which makes battery materials, is part of a crowded field of companies trying to land on new battery chemistries that could speed EV adoption by providing automakers with safer, cheaper alternatives or improvements to lithium-ion batteries.
...

CN114843456A Negative electrode material, preparation method thereof and prepared battery

CN114843456A Negative electrode material, preparation method thereof and prepared battery

The invention relates to a negative electrode material, a preparation method of the negative electrode material and a battery manufactured by the negative electrode material. Graphite particles; amorphous carbon; the lithiated silica particles and the graphite particles are coated and bonded by the amorphous carbon, so that the space between the lithiated silica particles and the graphite particles is filled with the amorphous carbon. According to the negative electrode material disclosed by the invention, the volume expansion effect of SiOx is effectively inhibited; the carbon coating layer not only limits the side reaction between lithiated silica (lithiated SiOx) and external electrolyte, but also effectively connects the lithiated SiOx and graphite, and amorphous carbon is filled between lithiated silica particles and graphite particles, so that the conductivity of the lithiated silica (lithiated SiOx) is greatly improved, and meanwhile, the conductivity of the lithium ion battery is greatly improved. And the prepared battery has relatively high first coulombic efficiency and good cycling stability.

 

[Vigdorian]

A major impediment facing EV manufacturers is range anxiety.

Talga's research has produced Talnode-Si, which has 5 times the capacity of a standard Li battery. Just 9% Talnode-Si mixed with a graphite anode produces a 40% increase in capacity.

Talga has been developing Talnode-Si since 2018 at its facilities in Cambridge, UK, with commercial samples being produced at its pilot facility in Rudolstadt, Germany.
...
In parallel, the company is conducting feasibility work towards accelerating commercial Talnode-Si production options. The company said that negotiations with leading global EV manufacturers regarding supply volumes have commenced and production site location selection in Europe is well underway.
Posted on 27 December 2022 in Batteries, Market Background, Materials

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/12/20221227-talnode.html

Another impediment to the uptake of EVs is the charging time.

If Talga were to ignore these problems, their market outlook would have a very short horizon. There are many competitors working on Si/graphite anodes.

Mercedes-Backed Farasis Says Silicon Boosts Battery Energy 25% - BNN Bloomberg

Oct 7, 2021

Mercedes-Backed Farasis Says Silicon Boosts Battery Energy 25%

Gabrielle Coppola, Bloomberg News

(Bloomberg) -- Farasis Energy, the Chinese battery manufacturer backed by Mercedes-Benz, said a lithium-silicon battery it’s developing with Group14 Technologies Inc. passed a key performance test, paving the way for its commercialization in electric vehicles.

Group14, which makes battery materials, is part of a crowded field of companies trying to land on new battery chemistries that could speed EV adoption by providing automakers with safer, cheaper alternatives or improvements to lithium-ion batteries.
...

CN114843456A Negative electrode material, preparation method thereof and prepared battery

View attachment 29560


CN114843456A Negative electrode material, preparation method thereof and prepared battery

The invention relates to a negative electrode material, a preparation method of the negative electrode material and a battery manufactured by the negative electrode material. Graphite particles; amorphous carbon; the lithiated silica particles and the graphite particles are coated and bonded by the amorphous carbon, so that the space between the lithiated silica particles and the graphite particles is filled with the amorphous carbon. According to the negative electrode material disclosed by the invention, the volume expansion effect of SiOx is effectively inhibited; the carbon coating layer not only limits the side reaction between lithiated silica (lithiated SiOx) and external electrolyte, but also effectively connects the lithiated SiOx and graphite, and amorphous carbon is filled between lithiated silica particles and graphite particles, so that the conductivity of the lithiated silica (lithiated SiOx) is greatly improved, and meanwhile, the conductivity of the lithium ion battery is greatly improved. And the prepared battery has relatively high first coulombic efficiency and good cycling stability.

Thanks Diogenese. Always enjoy your valuable input.

I wasn’t trying to marginalize the importance of talnode si or cathode additives. I think they both sound very promising and will feature in the revenue stream in the not too distant future.

I was simply questioning the short term strategy and looking for more comfort since Talga is pre-revenue (commercialization near term) with a relatively short cash runway if it would be more beneficial to focus on the lower hanging fruit being everything to do with talnode C and biding our time until we get permits , offtakes and funding sorted.

Unfortunately , I don’t think we have enough information about the talnode Si or cathode additives financials/commercialization plans, nor do we have the breakdown of resources (staff , time, budget) and costs (of running those center of excellence) split by the respective products. I just wonder if there is an opportunity to tighten the ship in the near term.

It’s the internet damn it - let me challenge the status quo on a forum

 

[Diogenese]

Thanks Diogenese. Always enjoy your valuable input.

I wasn’t trying to marginalize the importance of talnode si or cathode additives. I think they both sound very promising and will feature in the revenue stream in the not too distant future.

I was simply questioning the short term strategy and looking for more comfort since Talga is pre-revenue (commercialization near term) with a relatively short cash runway if it would be more beneficial to focus on the lower hanging fruit being everything to do with talnode C and biding our time until we get permits , offtakes and funding sorted.

Unfortunately , I don’t think we have enough information about the talnode Si or cathode additives financials/commercialization plans, nor do we have the breakdown of resources (staff , time, budget) and costs (of running those center of excellence) split by the respective products. I just wonder if there is an opportunity to tighten the ship in the near term.

It’s the internet damn it - let me challenge the status quo on a forum

Hi Vigdorian,

I think Talnode-Si is essential in the near term. Range will be a major selling point for the EV makers, so an extra 40% will clinch the deal in many cases.

But other battery makers are also improving their battery capacity, so it is a matter of keeping up.

Talnode-Si is much more expensive than Talnode-C because it requires graphene and a lot more processing, so it is only dispensed in small doses, but imagine a 100% Talnode-Si battery. I'm not sure of the comparative cost or theoretical capacity of solid electrolyte batteries, but it may be that Talnode-Si will be cheaper than solid electrolyte batteries and may also be competitive on the capacity front (and we get out graphene for free we just sweep it up off the floor after making our graphite).

Answered me own question:

https://www.topspeed.com/what-are-solid-state-batteries-and-why-are-they-the-future/
QuantumScape released its performance data in December 2022 which revealed that their SSBs have a staggering Volumetric energy density of more than 1,000 Wh/L while the best batteries used in existing EVs go as high as 700 Wh/L.

So Quantumscape SSB can increase capacity by 300/700 ~ 43% - impressive, but ...

... what if we used 10% Talnode-Si?

 

[TentCity]

I’m tied up with a work commitment today so will miss the investor webinar until a replay is available.

Look forward to seeing your comments/reflections of any thoughts on here in the interim

 

[Semmel]

I’m tied up with a work commitment today so will miss the investor webinar until a replay is available.

Look forward to seeing your comments/reflections of any thoughts on here in the interim

Ha, I will be asleep

Hope its gonna be great fun for all that can watch it life. Usually there is a recording pretty timely on youtube. At least it was the last few times. unfortunately, I didnt have the mind to send a stack of questions. Too much work and Family these days. Not much room for anything else. Hope you guys put Mark on the grill

 

[Slymeat]

Mark stated—If Court case is negative - they have several mitigation avenues they can apply and will remain a going concern:

• Can appeal the decision
• Can apply for other permits
• Have Talnode-Si business to pursue
• Have valuable downstream processing they can do for other companies

I’m certain I missed a couple.

 

[TentCity]

I managed to shift the diary around and caught the webinar - well worth it!!

I just wrote a post on HC - but very excited about the Talnode Si opportunity (not surprisingly!). Found it very interesting how bullish MT was on this and the relatively near term nature of the commercialisation strategy. They clearly have a very motivated customer and the tech and qualifications must be progressing well to validate this conviction.

Also, I roughly got my answer that recycled volumes of graphite from spent Li-ion batteries is still some time away, but interestingly, Talnode Si can use other sources of graphite (not just Vittangi) to work. This provides the ability for the company to consider expanding to the US (which was specifically referenced) and use a local source (perhaps Canadian), rather than having to ship Swedish graphite to N.America.

 

[ACinEur]

Caught some of it, MT very bullish…TalnodeSi potential customer has to be a German Auto ?! Also interesting mention of the 4680 battery, was MT trying to tell us something? Setting up nicely as a chemicals co with a mine attached! Need to watch the whole thing and take notes…AC

 

[Diogenese]

I managed to shift the diary around and caught the webinar - well worth it!!

I just wrote a post on HC - but very excited about the Talnode Si opportunity (not surprisingly!). Found it very interesting how bullish MT was on this and the relatively near term nature of the commercialisation strategy. They clearly have a very motivated customer and the tech and qualifications must be progressing well to validate this conviction.

Also, I roughly got my answer that recycled volumes of graphite from spent Li-ion batteries is still some time away, but interestingly, Talnode Si can use other sources of graphite (not just Vittangi) to work. This provides the ability for the company to consider expanding to the US (which was specifically referenced) and use a local source (perhaps Canadian), rather than having to ship Swedish graphite to N.America.

Thanks TentCity,

Did Mark mention the sideshow applications for graphene?

As I said the other day, I think that Talnode-Si is a near term product, and batteries will need all the Talnode-Si we can produce, because of the EV manufacturers challenge in overcoming range anxiety, so the paint, packaging, electric roads, etc., will not be a priority at least until we get into recycling.

 

[TentCity]

Thanks TentCity,

Did Mark mention the sideshow applications for graphene?

As I said the other day, I think that Talnode-Si is a near term product, and batteries will need all the Talnode-Si we can produce, because of the EV manufacturers challenge in overcoming range anxiety, so the paint, packaging, electric roads, etc., will not be a priority at least until we get into recycling.

He was asked a question about the ship coating trial and he laughed/reacted like “oh yeah - those ships we painted” as if it was a long forgotten memory!

I agree with you, based on that reaction and how slow in general the uptake of graphene materials is, I think the core focus of Graphene materials will be utilised in Talnode Si and Cathode Additives.