BRN Discussion Ongoing

[rgupta]

I agree @Andy38

They’re a sleeping giant. And in reality they’re actually not sleeping but have recognised the value of SNN and working very hard to understand the technology.

If Tata chooses Brainchip to implement in their tech the implications should be enormous,

I am concerned they are trying to build their own version as they’ve been playing with ours for a while now; but I’m hoping our patents and owning the JAST rules prevent that!

Having working silicon and IP for Akida 1000, then AKD1500 and the next 3 x Gen 2 models in production gives us first mover advantage for adoption.

I will be thrilled to read when TATA sign an IP agreement as they will be massive!

Have a read of TATA’s views on SNN.

Spiking neural networks

www.tcs.com

As far as understands TCS is a software company which get best out of a hardware. They are more like edge impulse while edge impluse works model building TCS implement hardware installations for big companies.
Akida is a hardware and to make it operational and getting more out of akida, we need software and that is where TCS is master.
Tata's is a big group but I don't think they want to make their own hardware right now.
DYOR

 

[suss]

As far as understands TCS is a software company which get best out of a hardware. They are more like edge impulse while edge impluse works model building TCS implement hardware installations for big companies.
Akida is a hardware and to make it operational and getting more out of akida, we need software and that is where TCS is master.
Tata's is a big group but I don't think they want to make their own hardware right now.
DYOR

Yep, TCS is similar to accenture

 

[Stable Genius]

As far as understands TCS is a software company which get best out of a hardware. They are more like edge impulse while edge impluse works model building TCS implement hardware installations for big companies.
Akida is a hardware and to make it operational and getting more out of akida, we need software and that is where TCS is master.
Tata's is a big group but I don't think they want to make their own hardware right now.
DYOR

I hope you’re right @rgupta

Tata is described as an Indian multinational conglomerate with products and services in over 150 countries. With Operations in 100 countries.

Revenue $128B USD So they would be well resourced.

935,000 employees!
Just as I believe we have staff in France to work with Valeo I am hoping our Indian base is to work with Tata.

The information about Gen 2 is it was created in consultation with potential customers/EAP’s therefore it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to think that once it’s released after testing might reveal those customers as they come onboard!

 

[rgupta]

Tatas have a lot of businesses. A few companies include TCS, Tata motors, Tata steel, Tata chemicals, titan, Tata hydro, air India, Indian hotels, tata hydro, and a lot more.
TCS is the biggest Tata company (market cap). TCS is attached to brainchip from the day when brainchip 1st demonstrated hand gestures by akida. Which means Tatas know brainchip much more earlier than anyone else. Whether they have an NDA with brn will only be known in future.
Planning a neurophonic chip hardware looks a bit distant to me but anything is possible in this world.
Dyor

 

[Learning]

This two articles have lead me to think
Tata group will make their own chips in the near distance future.

https://bwpeople.businessworld.in/article/Tata-Electronics-Appoints-Dr-Randhir-Thakur-As-CEO-MD/18-04-2023-473285/

What will the Tata Group do in the semiconductor biz? - BusinessToday

Outsourced Semiconductor Assembly and Test, which is also referred to as assembly, testing, marking, and packaging (ATMP) units, plays a crucial role in semiconductor manufacturing as they package and test the silicon chips made at the foundries before they are shipped to the market.

www.businesstoday.in

Learning 🏖

 

[Xray1]

I hope you’re right @rgupta

Tata is described as an Indian multinational conglomerate with products and services in over 150 countries. With Operations in 100 countries.

Revenue $128B USD So they would be well resourced.

935,000 employees!
Just as I believe we have staff in France to work with Valeo I am hoping our Indian base is to work with Tata.

The information about Gen 2 is it was created in consultation with potential customers/EAP’s therefore it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to think that once it’s released after testing might reveal those customers as they come onboard!

I am concerned that Tata maybe just using us to advance their own technological agenda.

I note that they continue to mention others in this space so as to keep imo all other parties technology at bay:
" The community is pursuing multiple sophisticated dedicated Neuromorphic hardware platforms such as: Intel Loihi, IBM TrueNorth, Brainchip Akida, SpiNNaker, DYNAPs to name a few."
I do not recall them ever saying or brandishing specifically that Brainchip is the best Neuromorphic technology currently commercially available ... like always DYOR

 

[rgupta]

The salt-to-steel conglomerate intends to invest $90 billion in this space across the group companies over the next five years. It plans to foray into advanced chip manufacturing, popularly known as fabs, in a few years. While Tata Sons chairman Chandrasekaran has indicated the company’s plans to get into advanced chip manufacturing or fabs, no information is available on the kind of technology or the nodes the company plans to invest in.

May be go through paragraph. Tatas want to establish a foundry to manufacture chips and they are planning to go through the all stages before they commit themselves.

 

[FabricatedLunacy]

This two articles have lead me to think
Tata group will make their own chips in the near distance future.

https://bwpeople.businessworld.in/article/Tata-Electronics-Appoints-Dr-Randhir-Thakur-As-CEO-MD/18-04-2023-473285/

What will the Tata Group do in the semiconductor biz? - BusinessToday

Outsourced Semiconductor Assembly and Test, which is also referred to as assembly, testing, marking, and packaging (ATMP) units, plays a crucial role in semiconductor manufacturing as they package and test the silicon chips made at the foundries before they are shipped to the market.

www.businesstoday.in

Learning 🏖

Do we think it will contain our secret sauce?

 

[FrederikSchack]

I am concerned that Tata maybe just using us to advance their own technological agenda.

I note that they continue to mention others in this space so as to keep imo all other parties technology at bay:
" The community is pursuing multiple sophisticated dedicated Neuromorphic hardware platforms such as: Intel Loihi, IBM TrueNorth, Brainchip Akida, SpiNNaker, DYNAPs to name a few."
I do not recall them ever saying or brandishing specifically that Brainchip is the best Neuromorphic technology currently commercially available ... like always DYOR

DYNAP is SynSense, probably not so much a direct competitor as they are selling hardware and not IP, further they seem to specialize more in vision.

SpiNNaker is not really Neuromorphic as it's a simulation of SNN and they aren't competitors at all.

IBM and Intel haven't been commercialized yet.

GrAI Matter Labs is probably our only commerzialized direct competitor.

 

[Stable Genius]

I am concerned that Tata maybe just using us to advance their own technological agenda.

I note that they continue to mention others in this space so as to keep imo all other parties technology at bay:
" The community is pursuing multiple sophisticated dedicated Neuromorphic hardware platforms such as: Intel Loihi, IBM TrueNorth, Brainchip Akida, SpiNNaker, DYNAPs to name a few."
I do not recall them ever saying or brandishing specifically that Brainchip is the best Neuromorphic technology currently commercially available ... like always DYOR

I don’t have them on hand; I’ll add to this later if I find them; but I’m sure I’ve read numerous research articles where Tata does at least indicate Akida is winning on Size, weight and power.

And of course we have commercialised Akida 1000 with 1500 and 3 x Gen 2 being produced so I would think we’re the winning horse at the moment!

 

[Stable Genius]

I am concerned that Tata maybe just using us to advance their own technological agenda.

I note that they continue to mention others in this space so as to keep imo all other parties technology at bay:
" The community is pursuing multiple sophisticated dedicated Neuromorphic hardware platforms such as: Intel Loihi, IBM TrueNorth, Brainchip Akida, SpiNNaker, DYNAPs to name a few."
I do not recall them ever saying or brandishing specifically that Brainchip is the best Neuromorphic technology currently commercially available ... like always DYOR

Apologies for the quality but this is TCS working with Brainchip reposted by Chris Stevens only 3 weeks ago.

 

[overpup]

Neuroboxt anyone?​

Spikes, 0’s and 1’s

​

Neurobotx is retrofuturistic, and so is neuromorphic computing. Also, we are techno-optimistic nostalgics and we like techno. The main advantage of neuromorphic computing stands in it's ANALOG, as opposed to digital nature. That's what generates the huge energy savings and the increase in speed. Computers were meant to be analog and neuromorphic since their very inception. So the retrofuturistic theme of neurobotx is about revisiting the most fundamental principles in computing, and bringing them back into the mainstream again: analog computing, energy efficiency, and going beyond the classical logic of 0s and 1s and get gradients instead, just like neurons when they spike. We are driven and inspired by Isaac Asimov's sci fi novels, flying cars, androids, robots and the 80s techno-optimism​

All their chips are pressed on 12 Inch Vinyl only

 

[Learning]

Do we think it will contain our secret sauce?

My opinion are TCS have been playing with Brainchip's Neuromorphic Akida from the start.

It's the only commercial Digital Neuromorphic architectures available.

One would think, if they are not interested in it, why all the research papers from TCS.

So my only conclusion is. Tata eventually will incorporate Akida to their chips.

My opinion only.

Learning 🏖

 

[Shadow59]

All their chips are pressed on 12 Inch Vinyl only

They achieve their accuracy by running on a linear tracking turntable.

 

[rgupta]

My opinion are TCS have been playing with Brainchip's Neuromorphic Akida from the start.

It's the only commercial Digital Neuromorphic architectures available.

One would think, if they are not interested in it, why all the research papers from TCS.

So my only conclusion is. Tata eventually will incorporate Akida to their chips.

My opinion only.

Learning 🏖

Can you name a chip made by tata other than a potato chip, even I don't know a potato chip made by a Tata company.

 

[Rskiff]

Can you name a chip made by tata other than a potato chip, even I don't know a potato chip made by a Tata company.

@rgupta about to........https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tata-group-to-soon-begin-semiconductor-chip-manufacturing-in-india-report-news-243514

 

[rgupta]

@rgupta about to........https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tata-group-to-soon-begin-semiconductor-chip-manufacturing-in-india-report-news-243514

That is in regards to foundry services which Tata is planning but by the time it will be operational we may have akida 10 into production. On the other hand I really like and admire Tata group but having an expectations beyond the plans is not good.

 

[Learning]

Can you name a chip made by tata other than a potato chip, even I don't know a potato chip made by a Tata company.

I don't really understand what you trying to insinuate?

Firstly, I present two articles, why I think Tata group will be eventually make their own chips.

And another member ask for my opinion.

So the last two posts are my opinion for the future.

As my logical conclusion is, if Tata is investing into chip foundry. I would think they would also make theirs own chips in the future. Why because they can. With all the resources and engineering expertise within Tata groups. And from a business perspective it's will be big savings $$$ and chips security.

My opinion only.

Learning 🏖

 

[rgupta]

I don't really understand what you trying to insinuate?

Firstly, I present two articles, why I think Tata group will be eventually make their own chips.

And another member ask for my opinion.

So the last two posts are my opinion for the future.

As my logical conclusion is, if Tata is investing into chip foundry. I would think they would also make theirs own chips in the future. Why because they can. With all the resources and engineering expertise within Tata groups. And from a business perspective it's will be big savings $$$ and chips security.

My opinion only.

Learning 🏖

Thanks for the reasoning. First of all I am not an expert and have different opinion from an expert. But looking through those articles I can elaborate the same as per my understanding.
COVID 19 was a big thing which is going to bring out a lot of changes. Supply chain and chip manufacturing is one of the two stumbling blocks which take attention of the whole world.
US wants to increase chip manufacturing on their home land and they introduce subsidies in the tune of 50 billion dollars to chip manufacturers. Because of that TSMC, Intel, micron and some others are trying to put up new foundries in US.
Same way indian government wants to have foundries in India for the same they offer a subsidy of 760000 million indian rupees.Tatas is one of the oldest and reputed group in India and they want to see India grow in this field as well. So they are planning to spend as per govt directions and looking to build a chip manufacturing foundry in India. They are also aware it is a highly capital intensive and sophisticated business.
For the same they had started an initial process where they want to taste the market by entering into design and other parts of chip manufacturing.
If they find conditions suitable they will look out for a partner with whom they can make a chip manufacturing foundry in India.
All those things are in intial stages and no one knows what will come next.
My only concern starts when someone says here TCS wants to manufacture a chip in competition to us and someone said they make a chip with our IP and you said they want to make a chip.
They want to make chip for others and may be one day they can decide to manufacture their own chip but even if that comes out it will take out at least 3-4 years. So attaching TCS as IP eligible for brn or a competitor to brn is very premature.
At the end it is only my opinion and my understanding of the market conditions and I am normally wrong.
Dyor

 

[rgupta]

Thanks for the reasoning. First of all I am not an expert and have different opinion from an expert. But looking through those articles I can elaborate the same as per my understanding.
COVID 19 was a big thing which is going to bring out a lot of changes. Supply chain and chip manufacturing is one of the two stumbling blocks which take attention of the whole world.
US wants to increase chip manufacturing on their home land and they introduce subsidies in the tune of 50 billion dollars to chip manufacturers. Because of that TSMC, Intel, micron and some others are trying to put up new foundries in US.
Same way indian government wants to have foundries in India for the same they offer a subsidy of 760000 million indian rupees.Tatas is one of the oldest and reputed group in India and they want to see India grow in this field as well. So they are planning to spend as per govt directions and looking to build a chip manufacturing foundry in India. They are also aware it is a highly capital intensive and sophisticated business.
For the same they had started an initial process where they want to taste the market by entering into design and other parts of chip manufacturing.
If they find conditions suitable they will look out for a partner with whom they can make a chip manufacturing foundry in India.
All those things are in intial stages and no one knows what will come next.
My only concern starts when someone says here TCS wants to manufacture a chip in competition to us and someone said they make a chip with our IP and you said they want to make a chip.
They want to make chip for others and may be one day they can decide to manufacture their own chip but even if that comes out it will take out at least 3-4 years. So attaching TCS as IP eligible for brn or a competitor to brn is very premature.
At the end it is only my opinion and my understanding of the market conditions and I am normally wrong.
Dyor

One thing I forget to add TCS can be great partner but not a customer or competitor right now.