AVZ Discussion 2022

[Misfits]

 

[John25]

If CATH dont wont to front with $$$$ drop punt & find another willing investor ,preferably not Chinese

 

[Dijon101]

I interpreted it the same way, it's Jin Cheng is asking for arbitration as it's Jin Cheng who is wanting to negotiate.

Anyway, I'll admit I'm way out of my depth here and have no experience in what is going on..
I'll just keep reading all the informative posts here and try to keep a calm head.

That and gear up for another few months of work.....

 

[BEISHA]

If CATH dont wont to front with $$$$ drop punt & find another willing investor ,preferably not Chinese

Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?

A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!

In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......

I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.

PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.

I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.

Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?

 

[The Fox]

Taking a different view of potential outcomes here should the pieces on the board have to change for the sake of avoiding long term litigation, I could live with the following scenario.

AVZ acknowledges Z holds 15%, AVZ could offer Z another 9% for X dollars bringing them up to 24% instead of completing the deal with CATH. (also assuming Z would have to contribute to pro rata 24% on the funding requirements)

I don't trust many Chinese companies, their track records speak for themselves, however in terms of being a mining company Z would be a better partner than CATH for the operation. Ivanhoe have done very well I believe in partnership with Z.

CATH could not provide any great mining expertise, they just make batteries.

Under this scenario, AVZ 66%, Z - (Jin Cheng) 24% and Cominiere 10%. Z could provide a loan off their balance sheet for all project funding (not taken up by ADB) and things would move very quickly, roads and bridges, Hydro refurbishment and plant construction.

Trying to find a positive here in case it is easier to go another way and acknowledge Z- Jin Cheng. No matter what AVZ does, it is going to be in business with Chinese companies, why not pick one that will add the greatest value.

Yes, it really sticks in my throat that Z may have picked up 15% for pocket money, that's a shocker, wish I could have done that, but don't have the dollars or connections to pay decision makers.

My overwhelming preference is Felix and friends weigh in immediately, arrest the corrupt officials that assigned the 15%, void the transaction, provide AVZ formal documentation to that effect and penalise Z also.

Yet, if that does not happen I could live with the above scenario and it would likely be a better outcome for AVZ. CATH would have to be happy with an off take only, but if they get the shits and run away, there's plenty of others to fill their off take shoes.

Anyway, I think there is a silver lining if things don't go the way we want and I'm just considering alternate scenarios if it comes down to having to acknowledge Z - Jin Cheng mostly to avoid lengthy or multiple rounds of litigation in different courts.

Cheers The Fox

 

[Fletch77]

Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?

A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!

In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......

I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.

PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.

I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.

Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?

View attachment 6207

Agree with all of that Beisha, it feels like US and Europe are asleep on Manono.

They are all talking about critical minerals supply, but I can’t see the action. Pay up and have unlimited access to 1.5billion ton of lithium and keep it out of Chinese hands..

The money we are talking to get into a JV with us and fund construction is peanuts for those guys..

I just don’t understand how they have watched China move in and potentially get a 24% stake.

 

[Winenut]

Taking a different view of potential outcomes here should the pieces on the board have to change for the sake of avoiding long term litigation, I could live with the following scenario.

AVZ acknowledges Z holds 15%, AVZ could offer Z another 9% for X dollars bringing them up to 24% instead of completing the deal with CATH. (also assuming Z would have to contribute to pro rata 24% on the funding requirements)

I don't trust many Chinese companies, their track records speak for themselves, however in terms of being a mining company Z would be a better partner than CATH for the operation. Ivanhoe have done very well I believe in partnership with Z.

CATH could not provide any great mining expertise, they just make batteries.

Under this scenario, AVZ 66%, Z - (Jin Cheng) 24% and Cominiere 10%. Z could provide a loan off their balance sheet for all project funding (not taken up by ADB) and things would move very quickly, roads and bridges, Hydro refurbishment and plant construction.

Trying to find a positive here in case it is easier to go another way and acknowledge Z- Jin Cheng. No matter what AVZ does, it is going to be in business with Chinese companies, why not pick one that will add the greatest value.

Yes, it really sticks in my throat that Z may have picked up 15% for pocket money, that's a shocker, wish I could have done that, but don't have the dollars or connections to pay decision makers.

My overwhelming preference is Felix and friends weigh in immediately, arrest the corrupt officials that assigned the 15%, void the transaction, provide AVZ formal documentation to that effect and penalise Z also.

Yet, if that does not happen I could live with the above scenario and it would likely be a better outcome for AVZ. CATH would have to be happy with an off take only, but if they get the shits and run away, there's plenty of others to fill their off take shoes.

Anyway, I think there is a silver lining if things don't go the way we want and I'm just considering alternate scenarios if it comes down to having to acknowledge Z - Jin Cheng mostly to avoid lengthy or multiple rounds of litigation in different courts.

Cheers The Fox

What does CATH do then if they are shunted out of the arrangements?

Do they have an agreement currently in place that if breached or does not proceed could it open up their own avenue to litigation for possibly non- performance of contract???

What a shit show....

 

[BRICK]

Well at least that sell order at 77.77 is gone now.

 

[Xerof]

You're a sly but sensible thinking Fox.

Yes, despite my hatred for all things Z, your alternative does make sense. Ivanhoe don't appear to have had any issues with them.

I DO think they were initially gazumped by the deal struck with CATH, and possibly also with the FIRB decline for Yibin, so have resorted to the dirty tricks book.

 

[The Fox]

What does CATH do then if they are shunted out of the arrangements?

Do they have an agreement currently in place that if breached or does not proceed could it open up their own avenue to litigation for possibly non- performance of contract???

What a shit show....

On this scenario, as there are break costs for terminating the agreement, the costs are known and would be factored in should AVZ terminate the contract. Litigation would only occur with CATH if we took their $240m and did not give them the shares we are supposed to IMO.

 

[The Fox]

You're a sly but sensible thinking Fox.

Yes, despite my hatred for all things Z, your alternative does make sense. Ivanhoe don't appear to have had any issues with them.

I DO think they were initially gazumped by the deal struck with CATH, and possibly also with the FIRB decline for Yibin, so have resorted to the dirty tricks book.

Thanks Obviously AVZ have to play the cards they are dealt, yet Z may have out foxed AVZ to get their feet under the table, too early to say for sure of course, and there's a long way to go yet and no doubt more twists and turns to come. My preference is for AVZ to be in a strong position when it comes out of suspension and get on with building a mine ASAP. If that means swapping out one Chinese company for another, so be it, its not right, but it might be necessary.

 

[Frank]

Nige could write Elon a letter:

Dear Elon,

CATH were going to pay us 240m for 24% of the worlds largest lithium deposit but their dodgy mates tried to screw us. It will cost us 20m to break that deal. Give us 300m and the 24% is yours.

Regards,

Nige aka Big Swinging Richard

AIMO

Elon Musk says Tesla open to buying a mining company​

Tesla is open to buying a mining company if producing its own supply of electric vehicle (EV) metals would speed up worldwide adoption of clean energy technologies, Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said on Tuesday.

Concern is mounting across the EV industry that there may not be enough supply of lithium, nickel, copper and other metals to match demand later this decade, fueling questions about whether Tesla would consider jumping into the mining sector.

“It’s not out of the question,” Musk told the FT Future of the Car 2022 conference.

“We will address whatever limitations are on accelerating the world’s transition to sustainable energy. It’s not that we wish to buy mining companies, but if that’s the only way to accelerate the transition, then we will do that.”

While the auto giant has EV metals contracts with suppliers across the globe, its goal to produce 20 million vehicles annually by 2030 – what Musk called an “aspiration, not a promise” – will require vastly more supplies of metals. Tesla produced just under 1 million EVs last year.

Other automakers and executives including Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Tesla rival Stellantis NV, have warned the auto industry faces a metals supply shortage.

Tesla has no experience with the time-intensive and laborious task of building and operating a mine, so industry analysts have advised the automaker to focus on buying an existing operator.

Many in the mining industry have noted that buying an existing metals producer would cost far less than the $43 billion Musk offered to personally buy social media network Twitter earlier this year.

Tesla has lithium supply deals with Ganfeng Lithium, Livent Corp and Albemarle Corp, among others.

The company’s lithium supply deal with Piedmont Lithium was put on hold last year.

www.mining.com/category/battery-metals/

Sama Lukonde at the Mining Indaba/2022: “The DRC carries global hope, not only in the mining sector but also in the environment”​

Prime Minister Sama Lukonde represents the President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi, at this year’s Mining Indaba Forum where he is the VIP of the DRC, talking about the assets and opportunities for investment in the mining sector and even in the ecological transition of the Central African giant.

It is in this sense that a National Strategic Plan for the exploration and certification of mineral reserves, covering the whole of the National Territory, has been drawn up by the government, said Sama Lukonde, highlighting in particular six blocks of obvious mining interest, containing areas of interesting geological research.

These are the Kasaï, Katanga, Equateur, Kivu, Kongo-Central and Kwilu blocks.

To date, among the minerals under exploitation, according to Sama Lukonde, we can mention: copper, cobalt, zinc, tin, manganese, gold, diamond, cassiterite, wolframite and coltan. as well as a short-term prospect of exploiting lithium and nickel.

Accompanied by the Ministers of Mines, Digital and Communication and Media, the Head of Government, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, arrived Sunday evening in Cape Town, South Africa.

This year’s Mining Indaba Forum is themed “African Mining Evolution: Investing in Energy Transition, ESG and Savings”.

 

[Samus]

Thanks Obviously AVZ have to play the cards they are dealt, yet Z may have out foxed AVZ to get their feet under the table, too early to say for sure of course, and there's a long way to go yet and no doubt more twists and turns to come. My preference is for AVZ to be in a strong position when it comes out of suspension and get on with building a mine ASAP. If that means swapping out one Chinese company for another, so be it, its not right, but it might be necessary.

The mixture of lies, deception and corruption linked to any forced deal with this scum on the eve of what should have been a string of positive company making announcements is going to damage confidence in this company in a big way short-medium term imo.
Even if purely out of moral principles many will exit in disgust.
Get rid of the filthy swine. Can live with CATH but not this shit imo.

 

[Frank]

Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?

A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!

In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......

I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.

PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.

I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.

Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?

View attachment 6207

 

[cruiser51]

What does CATH do then if they are shunted out of the arrangements?

Do they have an agreement currently in place that if breached or does not proceed could it open up their own avenue to litigation for possibly non- performance of contract???

What a shit show....

I thought there is a US$20 million break fee, have to go back through all announcements.
But it is pretty obvious just to have 1% majority to keep the wolves out is in this case not enough.

 

[BEISHA]

Looks like a similar court case at the ICC as FAR Ltd regarding pre-empting rights about COP's sale of Senegal oil assets.
FAR lost it's pre-emption rights and WPL was allowed to buy COP's share.

Case is slightly different, but there are similarities.

The reason FAR lost was COP argued it didn't sell a percentage of Senegal oil interests, but it sold an entire subsidiary company, so there were no pre-emptive rights involved.
Here there are pre-emptive rights involved, where Cominiere did a shonky with DATHOMIR and held a meeting regarding the deal without major share holder AVZ present. Again another shonky, it looks like Cominiere appointed a person, who voted on AVZ's behalf. That is how I understand it.

Will Felix be impressed, if his 90% government owned company is on the world scene exposed as the shonky brothers, taking in account that he needs lots of World International Funds to develop his country?
I reckon Felix is pissed off with Zijin and Jin Cheng in particular to the extreme.
Will he support AVZ?
If he is fair and above board, one would say yes, however money speaks and Zijin, backed up by China, has very deep pockets.

TBH, I didn't like it when Nigel was locked up in WA with Covid and we saw pictures of Felix having little cosy cups of tea with the Chinese mafia.

But Tim will tell.

Maybe Felix will call the parties involved into his office and try to get this settled, before going the entire 6 months through court, with all the BS involved. Felix wants his battery factory, so Nigel has to be delicate.

I was a share holder of FAR before the pre emptive shit show, was very lucky to be out when that occurred.

FAR certainly did have preemptive rights, after all, they were the coy that founded the massive discovery, 11 out of 11 drills hit the spot, yet when it came down to the nitty gritty, WPL / COP did a shifty , FAR took them to court and lost in a technicality

Consequently, FAR is pretty much screwed .

David v Goliath.

David lost.

AVZ story isnt the same, they control the narrative with minimum 51% majority , its the extra 15% from Commiere / Zijin thats in question here , AVZ will go to production regardless, whereby FAR will completely miss out, cant even afford FID and their share of the development last time i read .

imo

 

[Sammy_da_Smile]

I don't think so

I think Jin is claiming the 15% of Dathcom that AVZ purports to have pre-emptive rights over

This is the 15% (of a total of 25%) that Cominiere held in Dathcom of which AVZ was supposed to pick up 15% with the remaining 10% subsequently being passed to the DRC Govt on completion of relevant transactions for the DRC Govt to then be carried freehold through the project

It seems prima facie that crooked elements within Cominiere have done a deal with Zin for personal gain and effectively sold them the 15% of Dathcom late last year in contradiction to the Dathcom shareholders Agreement (which AVZ is relying on to prove they had the pre-emptive right to take up that 15%)

This I believe is what the arbitration is about

We are stuck in the middle ....its a clusterfuck dodgy deal between Cominiere and Zin and in reality the DRC Govt needs to fucking wade in and crack some fucking heads at Cominiere

Yeh that makes sense

 

[Flexi]

What I m annoyed about is that AVZ allowed this matter to drag out for so long and failed to address the last 15 % to bring our ownership to 90% earlier and bring it to a head.

They kept reporting " in discussion with Govt and progressing well".

Obviously discussing with wrong part of the Govt else how could Z make these claims.

What should have been the most awaited, important and company building moment in 5 years (License approval) is soured by these shenanigan's by Z

AVZ Should have resolved this issue one way or another last September instead of ignoring it.

I invested big in this company believing the new Govt was legit and transparent in its dealings. It now seems I was wrong.

I can now understand why AVZ struggles to get a non Chinese Investor/partner on board like EU or USA.

Hoping the right outcome is delivered soon rather than later.

 

[Mickdavo]

So did the tough guy and put up with pain in the middle of my back for 5 days. Now in hospital with undiagnosed covid which has caused major clots in both lungs and killed parts of my lungs. Get to the doctor early guys
Due some good news today good luck everyone.

Hope you heal up mate! No good.

 

[TDITD]

What I m annoyed about is that AVZ allowed this matter to drag out for so long and failed to address the last 15 % to bring our ownership to 90% earlier and bring it to a head.

They kept reporting " in discussion with Govt and progressing well".

Obviously discussing with wrong part of the Govt else how could Z make these claims.

What should have been the most awaited, important and company building moment in 5 years (License approval) is soured by these shenanigan's by Z

AVZ Should have resolved this issue one way or another last September instead of ignoring it.

I invested big in this company believing the new Govt was legit and transparent in its dealings. It now seems I was wrong.

I can now understand why AVZ struggles to get a non Chinese Investor/partner on board like EU or USA.

Hoping the right outcome is delivered soon rather than later.

Agreed Flexi,

I'm also miffed this was not addressed by the board and the extra 15% was allowed to drag, it has allowed for Zijin (get in the bin) to play dirty.
Also if we were in discussions with the Govt, surely the Govt are royally pissed off the rug has been pulled on them.
Why hasn't the government made an announcement in relation to this ?

This in my eyes is an important moment for the DRC Govt. Felix was supposed to usher in a new transparency and reform the country, this whole battery manufacturing push they are making will probably fall on its face without global investment (not just china).