That's only 39%.
How does that make them not have control.
Unless each shareholder has a seat on the board of directors (I.e. AVZ, DRC, CATH and Zijin)
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
How does that make them not have control.
Unless each shareholder has a seat on the board of directors (I.e. AVZ, DRC, CATH and Zijin)
D
Deleted member 1612
Guest
No one is going to be mad at that kind of swearing Winenut, you’re only verbalising our internal thoughts…
DiscoDanNZ
Regular
Nige could write Elon a letter:
Dear Elon,
CATH were going to pay us 240m for 24% of the worlds largest lithium deposit but their dodgy mates tried to screw us. It will cost us 20m to break that deal. Give us 300m and the 24% is yours.
Regards,
Nige aka Big Swinging Richard
AIMO
Dijon101
Regular
I interpreted it the same way, it's Jin Cheng is asking for arbitration as it's Jin Cheng who is wanting to negotiate.
Anyway, I'll admit I'm way out of my depth here and have no experience in what is going on..
I'll just keep reading all the informative posts here and try to keep a calm head.
That and gear up for another few months of work.....
Anyway, I'll admit I'm way out of my depth here and have no experience in what is going on..
I'll just keep reading all the informative posts here and try to keep a calm head.
That and gear up for another few months of work.....
Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?
A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!
In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......
I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.
PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.
I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.
Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?
The Fox
Regular
Taking a different view of potential outcomes here should the pieces on the board have to change for the sake of avoiding long term litigation, I could live with the following scenario.
AVZ acknowledges Z holds 15%, AVZ could offer Z another 9% for X dollars bringing them up to 24% instead of completing the deal with CATH. (also assuming Z would have to contribute to pro rata 24% on the funding requirements)
I don't trust many Chinese companies, their track records speak for themselves, however in terms of being a mining company Z would be a better partner than CATH for the operation. Ivanhoe have done very well I believe in partnership with Z.
CATH could not provide any great mining expertise, they just make batteries.
Under this scenario, AVZ 66%, Z - (Jin Cheng) 24% and Cominiere 10%. Z could provide a loan off their balance sheet for all project funding (not taken up by ADB) and things would move very quickly, roads and bridges, Hydro refurbishment and plant construction.
Trying to find a positive here in case it is easier to go another way and acknowledge Z- Jin Cheng. No matter what AVZ does, it is going to be in business with Chinese companies, why not pick one that will add the greatest value.
Yes, it really sticks in my throat that Z may have picked up 15% for pocket money, that's a shocker, wish I could have done that, but don't have the dollars or connections to pay decision makers.
My overwhelming preference is Felix and friends weigh in immediately, arrest the corrupt officials that assigned the 15%, void the transaction, provide AVZ formal documentation to that effect and penalise Z also.
Yet, if that does not happen I could live with the above scenario and it would likely be a better outcome for AVZ. CATH would have to be happy with an off take only, but if they get the shits and run away, there's plenty of others to fill their off take shoes.
Anyway, I think there is a silver lining if things don't go the way we want and I'm just considering alternate scenarios if it comes down to having to acknowledge Z - Jin Cheng mostly to avoid lengthy or multiple rounds of litigation in different courts.
Cheers The Fox
AVZ acknowledges Z holds 15%, AVZ could offer Z another 9% for X dollars bringing them up to 24% instead of completing the deal with CATH. (also assuming Z would have to contribute to pro rata 24% on the funding requirements)
I don't trust many Chinese companies, their track records speak for themselves, however in terms of being a mining company Z would be a better partner than CATH for the operation. Ivanhoe have done very well I believe in partnership with Z.
CATH could not provide any great mining expertise, they just make batteries.
Under this scenario, AVZ 66%, Z - (Jin Cheng) 24% and Cominiere 10%. Z could provide a loan off their balance sheet for all project funding (not taken up by ADB) and things would move very quickly, roads and bridges, Hydro refurbishment and plant construction.
Trying to find a positive here in case it is easier to go another way and acknowledge Z- Jin Cheng. No matter what AVZ does, it is going to be in business with Chinese companies, why not pick one that will add the greatest value.
Yes, it really sticks in my throat that Z may have picked up 15% for pocket money, that's a shocker, wish I could have done that, but don't have the dollars or connections to pay decision makers.
My overwhelming preference is Felix and friends weigh in immediately, arrest the corrupt officials that assigned the 15%, void the transaction, provide AVZ formal documentation to that effect and penalise Z also.
Yet, if that does not happen I could live with the above scenario and it would likely be a better outcome for AVZ. CATH would have to be happy with an off take only, but if they get the shits and run away, there's plenty of others to fill their off take shoes.
Anyway, I think there is a silver lining if things don't go the way we want and I'm just considering alternate scenarios if it comes down to having to acknowledge Z - Jin Cheng mostly to avoid lengthy or multiple rounds of litigation in different courts.
Cheers The Fox
Fletch77
Regular
Agree with all of that Beisha, it feels like US and Europe are asleep on Manono.Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?
A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!
In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......
I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.
PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.
I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.
Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?
View attachment 6207
They are all talking about critical minerals supply, but I can’t see the action. Pay up and have unlimited access to 1.5billion ton of lithium and keep it out of Chinese hands..
The money we are talking to get into a JV with us and fund construction is peanuts for those guys..
I just don’t understand how they have watched China move in and potentially get a 24% stake.
Winenut
GO AVZ!!!!
What does CATH do then if they are shunted out of the arrangements?
Do they have an agreement currently in place that if breached or does not proceed could it open up their own avenue to litigation for possibly non- performance of contract???
What a shit show....
Xerof
Flaming 1967
You're a sly but sensible thinking Fox. 
Yes, despite my hatred for all things Z, your alternative does make sense. Ivanhoe don't appear to have had any issues with them.
I DO think they were initially gazumped by the deal struck with CATH, and possibly also with the FIRB decline for Yibin, so have resorted to the dirty tricks book.
Yes, despite my hatred for all things Z, your alternative does make sense. Ivanhoe don't appear to have had any issues with them.
I DO think they were initially gazumped by the deal struck with CATH, and possibly also with the FIRB decline for Yibin, so have resorted to the dirty tricks book.
The Fox
Regular
On this scenario, as there are break costs for terminating the agreement, the costs are known and would be factored in should AVZ terminate the contract. Litigation would only occur with CATH if we took their $240m and did not give them the shares we are supposed to IMO.
The Fox
Regular
ThanksYou're a sly but sensible thinking Fox.
Yes, despite my hatred for all things Z, your alternative does make sense. Ivanhoe don't appear to have had any issues with them.
I DO think they were initially gazumped by the deal struck with CATH, and possibly also with the FIRB decline for Yibin, so have resorted to the dirty tricks book.
Obviously AVZ have to play the cards they are dealt, yet Z may have out foxed AVZ to get their feet under the table, too early to say for sure of course, and there's a long way to go yet and no doubt more twists and turns to come. My preference is for AVZ to be in a strong position when it comes out of suspension and get on with building a mine ASAP. If that means swapping out one Chinese company for another, so be it, its not right, but it might be necessary.
Samus
Top 20
The mixture of lies, deception and corruption linked to any forced deal with this scum on the eve of what should have been a string of positive company making announcements is going to damage confidence in this company in a big way short-medium term imo.Thanks
Even if purely out of moral principles many will exit in disgust.
Get rid of the filthy swine. Can live with CATH but not this shit imo.
Frank
Top 20
Joe Biden visited DRC recently didnt he ?
A US participant would be the ULTIMATE FU to CHINA GOVT!!
In fact, if every country wised up and developed their own supply chains ( battery hubs/ manufacturing in general ) and were prepared to pay a little bit more for local quality and stopped buying cheap china goods, then with China so indebted v GDP ( 3 x evergrande time bomb ), potential recession, it will bring PRESIDENT XI to his knees......
I have been a liberal voter all my life, but this upcoming election, I am voting for ALBANESE.
PRO EV, PRO manufacturing, going to create a battery manufacturing hub within Australia,..........thats good enuff for me.
I just hope Labour can balance the books , I cant stand Clive Palmer, but his idea of raising the royalties for iron ore to pay off the trillion dollar debt is a good one, so i hope his votes are aligned to Labour in that regard and of course, I hope Albanese can be strong to China too.
Did i mention i hate CHINA GOVT ?
View attachment 6207
cruiser51
Top 20
I thought there is a US$20 million break fee, have to go back through all announcements.
But it is pretty obvious just to have 1% majority to keep the wolves out is in this case not enough.
I was a share holder of FAR before the pre emptive shit show, was very lucky to be out when that occurred.
FAR certainly did have preemptive rights, after all, they were the coy that founded the massive discovery, 11 out of 11 drills hit the spot, yet when it came down to the nitty gritty, WPL / COP did a shifty , FAR took them to court and lost in a technicality
Consequently, FAR is pretty much screwed .
David v Goliath.
David lost.
AVZ story isnt the same, they control the narrative with minimum 51% majority , its the extra 15% from Commiere / Zijin thats in question here , AVZ will go to production regardless, whereby FAR will completely miss out, cant even afford FID and their share of the development last time i read .
imo
Sammy_da_Smile
Regular
Yeh that makes sense
Flexi
Regular
What I m annoyed about is that AVZ allowed this matter to drag out for so long and failed to address the last 15 % to bring our ownership to 90% earlier and bring it to a head.
They kept reporting " in discussion with Govt and progressing well".
Obviously discussing with wrong part of the Govt else how could Z make these claims.
What should have been the most awaited, important and company building moment in 5 years (License approval) is soured by these shenanigan's by Z
AVZ Should have resolved this issue one way or another last September instead of ignoring it.
I invested big in this company believing the new Govt was legit and transparent in its dealings. It now seems I was wrong.
I can now understand why AVZ struggles to get a non Chinese Investor/partner on board like EU or USA.
Hoping the right outcome is delivered soon rather than later.
They kept reporting " in discussion with Govt and progressing well".
Obviously discussing with wrong part of the Govt else how could Z make these claims.
What should have been the most awaited, important and company building moment in 5 years (License approval) is soured by these shenanigan's by Z
AVZ Should have resolved this issue one way or another last September instead of ignoring it.
I invested big in this company believing the new Govt was legit and transparent in its dealings. It now seems I was wrong.
I can now understand why AVZ struggles to get a non Chinese Investor/partner on board like EU or USA.
Hoping the right outcome is delivered soon rather than later.
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