AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Azzler
Top 20
Great post. Thanks mate!
Mute22
Regular
Thanks mate
Now somebody please DM the real goss so my wife will let me sleep in the house again.
Mute22
Regular
Thank you very much.
Was there any question if the company has received any compensation for the legal cost mentioned in previous announcement about winning against Zijin?
Dave Evans
Regular
“The question was raised about AVZ current value. Nigel's response was that with a Mining license in place and depending on Lithium prices the project value varied between $2.5 billion and $7.5 billion”
Nearly sounds like Nigel could be prepared to negotiate a deal at a price somewhere between the price when we went into suspension to around $2 a share.
That would be a lot less than an ICSID finding in our favour which could value our shares at: The value of the project as at the start date of production including increased processing capacity (4.5 Mtpa to 10 Mtpa), updated mineral resource (840MT of SC6), updated ore price forecasts (SC6, PLS, Tin), change in mine life and updated BFS.
Personally I hate every one of those corrupt cunts that have worked against us, including the DRC’s fat potato headed prick of a president. I’ve spent every day accumulating information on all of them since this started and I would love to see them all fucked up the arse, so I personally have been ready to put all my investment on the line and wait for the ICSID.
I know there’s a lot of shareholders who just want to cash out at reasonable price and I understand that and also understand that the BOD are probably sick of the DRC. On top of the fact that a lot of shareholders can’t make up their minds half the time, a case in point being all the shareholders that kicked up a stink at the thought of giving up CDL and now would be happy to lose it if they can get something for Roche Dure.
Just like some questioning the Locke deal and the sweeteners they are getting when a lot of shareholders we’re probably shitting themselves that we wouldn’t get it over the line and we’d go into VA.
The BOD has had to deal with all the corrupt wankers I mentioned in previous posts, that’s why I will back them but I’ll be fucked if I’m going to vote for a piss fart $2 offer after fighting the corruption for the last two and half years. Our shares are worth no less than $3 even at this stage.
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Lucas Don Velor
Regular
@Azzler reply lululemon if you need help!
grassseeds
Regular
Hi, Nigel was originally asked what AVZ's current value was. As this was difficult to comment on he changed the parameters to what the value may be. His answer was not definitive and he inferred that there were a lot of variables. Eg if we got a license for all of 13359, what else was included such as Dathomir's and Comminere's shareholding and control of the hydropower. Other issues of other shareholding is another matter. I assumed that he was trying to indicate to shareholders that you need to be realistic. My interpretation is that a possible figure of less than $ 1 per share is the most likely outcome.
Azzler
Top 20
grassseeds
Regular
The meeting was advised that they had not received any funds. AVZ like our opponents have not paid the ICC funds etc and AVZ will be paying up shortly. Because of AVZ's poor cash position they have been very frugal and many staff have not been paid for some time. Other supplier bills have also been deferred with supplier support.
I have not bothered to add other minor comments such as USA support for Lobito corridor and whether USA or Australian Govt's are showing any support. Indications are that the USA have shown interest and the Aust Govt not much.
When asked about others accessing our core sample library Nigel stated that no one has accessed the core sample store or camp without AVZ permission
He stated that they do indeed have a good relationship with the DRC government in general apart from the paper bag receivers and was hopeful that they will be removed going forward.
When asked about possible support from the US government, he said that the US ambassador was well informed on the situation but said that the Australian government told them that they do not get involved in private businesses!
He stated that they do indeed have a good relationship with the DRC government in general apart from the paper bag receivers and was hopeful that they will be removed going forward.
When asked about possible support from the US government, he said that the US ambassador was well informed on the situation but said that the Australian government told them that they do not get involved in private businesses!
5 board members attended: John Clarke (chair), Nigel, Graeme, Rhett, Ben.
About 50 people attended, no or very few suits.
Pretty calm/quiet atmosphere.
One of the MMGA lawyers (the one in the far left in that recently posted photo) was there in casual dress. I didn't spot Carrick, Ludbrook or Hjulich or those other two big lawyers from last time.
2-3 DLA Piper folks sat in the front row but not on stage. Their main guy was the same one from last AGM I think. He was holding a big wad of answers, kind of like last time but the board didn't have them, and Nigel was speaking freely rather than reading responses.
Start of meeting
--------------------------
JC mumbled and bumbled his way through the initial proceedings and gave a brief initial address:
- Continuing to pursue confirmation of the 13359 title.
- Locke funding secured
- Audit in progress and will be made available
- Special thanks to DLAPiper for their work
Voting
-----------
Both resolutions (Rhett Brans and Salome Sijaona) passed with about same number of votes for each - around 650M for, 50M against.
Business concluded
Overview & update (NF)
--------------------------------------
- Won't be talking technical stuff, just legal & arbitration
- Locke finding gets us what we need to get through arbitration
- DLA Piper have done the budget for the legal campaign
- Money covers arbitration legal cost, experts fees, etc
- Acknowledged that it was a tough deal but explained that Locke want a decent return for their risk but maintained that it's a small price for AVZ to pay when compared to the potential return
- Exact repayment amount depends on level of draw down and time (there's some kind of time multiplier)
- Board's objective is to get the value out ASAP (NF referred to this several times throughout)
- 60m shares from ATM will go to Locke ASAP
- ICSID: we're in the box seat and have been getting minor wins
- ICC (Dathcom JV): hearing next week; have been winning 99% of matters so far
- ICC (Jin Cheng): pushing hard
- ICC (Dathomir 15%): has been movement recently; pushing hard; Locke funding gives us more' bump'
Expressed desire to talk about geology. "The deposit is still there."
Summarised with the need to get the funding and maximise the return through whatever avenue will most likely deliver value to shareholders.
Questions
----------------
When can we expect to re list?
- lot of legal action to go before that
- expects legal proceedings to end 2026/2027 (I was a bit surprised by the 27 bit, given Locke conditions)
- could also play out with DLA Piper enforcing penalties
- or could get the licence
- it will be 6-12 months at least (I didn't really follow this answer, seemed all over the place)
Have there been any off market transfers of shares?
- have seen some go through
- not large amounts
- appears to be same entity transferring to itself(?)
What is the current valuation of the asset?
-[slight exasperation from NF] anywhere from $2.5 - 10B (unclear if that was USD)
What is our strategy: mining or takeover?
- "let me put the same question to you?"
[when pressed NF continued]
- Not worried about Zijin, only a small part of government is in with Zijin
- talk of a bad relationship with the government is rubbish
- if we put this into production it's going to be another 18 months of waiting (NF's tone seemed to be "is that what you really want?")
- JC interjected at this point and said in his opinion, focusing on building the mine would deliver best value (interesting difference of opinion, expressed openly; this was the only time any of the other board spoke during Q&A I think)
Status of the 20m escrow account?
- AVZ has filed a complaint
- They have no access to the account
- Status of account is unknown
Kobold's visit to Manono?
- Done without AVZ's permission
- No-one accessed AVZ's core samples
- They weren't weren't with us
- They weren't on our site
How is the relationship with the DRC government?
- it's not all of the DRC government making trouble
- MoM has been misled; with the funding it will be clear that AVZ isn't falling over
- Funding means we have a bigger stick
- the president now has a problem: either AVZ litigates or Zijin does (implication here seemed to be 'negotiate')
- AVZ's remaining portion of the subdivided 13359 holds 95% of the DFS value with a life of 50-100years
- MoM must now come to the table and talk
What is the company valuation now?
- can't put a value on it right now
ICSID outstanding payment?
- Neither side has paid
- AVZ can now sort it out ASAP with Locke funds
Travel to DRC
(I thought both NF and BC looked a bit uncomfortable/sheepish)
- not as often as we'd like to
- needed to save money
- visited "about twice" in 2024
Status of local Fat Tail case ?
- still in discovery
What is the overall objective of the ICSID action?
- we'll show the DRC we're not going away; aim is to negotiate
- otherwise will enforce penalties; we have an expert in NYC preparing for this avenue
- expect a domino effect with the various cases
Can we be confident of working in the DRC if we get the PE?
- If government has the confidence to grant us the PE they will be confident of working with us
- tax and community benefits
- it's only a small obstructive group working against us
Are we looking at raising further funds?
- yes
- if you want to contribute, contact AVZ admin and they will send paperwork
Is the US government aware of the situation?
- yes. Kamala Harris in particular
- Ambassador and a "group in Texas" (huh?) are also onto it
What about Australian government?
- "I'm not going to answer that one"
- they're ambivalent
- joked about the WA government's assistance for lithium miners: where's ours?
End of meeting
I was left with the distinct impression that Nigel is looking for a quick end to this in a way that provides a decent return to shareholders. It was a recurring theme; those references were peppered throughout. I don't think he wants to go mining.
About 50 people attended, no or very few suits.
Pretty calm/quiet atmosphere.
One of the MMGA lawyers (the one in the far left in that recently posted photo) was there in casual dress. I didn't spot Carrick, Ludbrook or Hjulich or those other two big lawyers from last time.
2-3 DLA Piper folks sat in the front row but not on stage. Their main guy was the same one from last AGM I think. He was holding a big wad of answers, kind of like last time but the board didn't have them, and Nigel was speaking freely rather than reading responses.
Start of meeting
--------------------------
JC mumbled and bumbled his way through the initial proceedings and gave a brief initial address:
- Continuing to pursue confirmation of the 13359 title.
- Locke funding secured
- Audit in progress and will be made available
- Special thanks to DLAPiper for their work
Voting
-----------
Both resolutions (Rhett Brans and Salome Sijaona) passed with about same number of votes for each - around 650M for, 50M against.
Business concluded
Overview & update (NF)
--------------------------------------
- Won't be talking technical stuff, just legal & arbitration
- Locke finding gets us what we need to get through arbitration
- DLA Piper have done the budget for the legal campaign
- Money covers arbitration legal cost, experts fees, etc
- Acknowledged that it was a tough deal but explained that Locke want a decent return for their risk but maintained that it's a small price for AVZ to pay when compared to the potential return
- Exact repayment amount depends on level of draw down and time (there's some kind of time multiplier)
- Board's objective is to get the value out ASAP (NF referred to this several times throughout)
- 60m shares from ATM will go to Locke ASAP
- ICSID: we're in the box seat and have been getting minor wins
- ICC (Dathcom JV): hearing next week; have been winning 99% of matters so far
- ICC (Jin Cheng): pushing hard
- ICC (Dathomir 15%): has been movement recently; pushing hard; Locke funding gives us more' bump'
Expressed desire to talk about geology. "The deposit is still there."
Summarised with the need to get the funding and maximise the return through whatever avenue will most likely deliver value to shareholders.
Questions
----------------
When can we expect to re list?
- lot of legal action to go before that
- expects legal proceedings to end 2026/2027 (I was a bit surprised by the 27 bit, given Locke conditions)
- could also play out with DLA Piper enforcing penalties
- or could get the licence
- it will be 6-12 months at least (I didn't really follow this answer, seemed all over the place)
Have there been any off market transfers of shares?
- have seen some go through
- not large amounts
- appears to be same entity transferring to itself(?)
What is the current valuation of the asset?
-[slight exasperation from NF] anywhere from $2.5 - 10B (unclear if that was USD)
What is our strategy: mining or takeover?
- "let me put the same question to you?"
[when pressed NF continued]
- Not worried about Zijin, only a small part of government is in with Zijin
- talk of a bad relationship with the government is rubbish
- if we put this into production it's going to be another 18 months of waiting (NF's tone seemed to be "is that what you really want?")
- JC interjected at this point and said in his opinion, focusing on building the mine would deliver best value (interesting difference of opinion, expressed openly; this was the only time any of the other board spoke during Q&A I think)
Status of the 20m escrow account?
- AVZ has filed a complaint
- They have no access to the account
- Status of account is unknown
Kobold's visit to Manono?
- Done without AVZ's permission
- No-one accessed AVZ's core samples
- They weren't weren't with us
- They weren't on our site
How is the relationship with the DRC government?
- it's not all of the DRC government making trouble
- MoM has been misled; with the funding it will be clear that AVZ isn't falling over
- Funding means we have a bigger stick
- the president now has a problem: either AVZ litigates or Zijin does (implication here seemed to be 'negotiate')
- AVZ's remaining portion of the subdivided 13359 holds 95% of the DFS value with a life of 50-100years
- MoM must now come to the table and talk
What is the company valuation now?
- can't put a value on it right now
ICSID outstanding payment?
- Neither side has paid
- AVZ can now sort it out ASAP with Locke funds
Travel to DRC
(I thought both NF and BC looked a bit uncomfortable/sheepish)
- not as often as we'd like to
- needed to save money
- visited "about twice" in 2024
Status of local Fat Tail case ?
- still in discovery
What is the overall objective of the ICSID action?
- we'll show the DRC we're not going away; aim is to negotiate
- otherwise will enforce penalties; we have an expert in NYC preparing for this avenue
- expect a domino effect with the various cases
Can we be confident of working in the DRC if we get the PE?
- If government has the confidence to grant us the PE they will be confident of working with us
- tax and community benefits
- it's only a small obstructive group working against us
Are we looking at raising further funds?
- yes
- if you want to contribute, contact AVZ admin and they will send paperwork
Is the US government aware of the situation?
- yes. Kamala Harris in particular
- Ambassador and a "group in Texas" (huh?) are also onto it
What about Australian government?
- "I'm not going to answer that one"
- they're ambivalent
- joked about the WA government's assistance for lithium miners: where's ours?
End of meeting
I was left with the distinct impression that Nigel is looking for a quick end to this in a way that provides a decent return to shareholders. It was a recurring theme; those references were peppered throughout. I don't think he wants to go mining.
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I wonder if JC and the other board members are also thinking along the same lines as NF (ie not wanting to mine) but it’s a good strategic move to plough on, set the wheels in motion like it’s happening, so it’s a more attractive purchase for buyers than a stagnant company wanting to get out.
PS thanks for the detailed update. Hoping we see some good progress from here.
Mr Inappropriate
Regular
That’s bullshit. Remember the Timor gas project? The Australian government fucked over an entire nation to secure gas rights for Australian companies.
The government providing security over a loan to AVZ, say $20M, would have been but a rounding error in the budget statements.
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