AVZ Discussion 2022

[Pokok]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Carlos , you have just confirmed my thinking , if lucky we get something but I doubt it and as I said many years away before any decision and then many years to be enforced . I hope they all burn in hell

 

[Cumquat Cap]

ICC delayed as most lawyers take a month or two off for euro summer I’d imagine - should be back soon

 

[Retrobyte]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

 

[Rediah]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

 

[PutUsernameHere]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Thanks for providing a summary update with potential dates for expected news, appreciate your response

 

[cruiser51]

That is the result of an ICC case in 1943!!

If our case gets the same treatment, you could well have to wait for about 80 years.
I hope you are young enough, otherwise your grandkids will be over the moon.

 

[cruiser51]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

Depends if it is well maintained.

 

[wombat74]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

I think we need to show China /DRC we have the $$$$ to go the distance before they take any of this seriously . At the moment we are like a riffle without bullets . Threatening , but completely useless .

 

[Dazmac66]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Thanks for taking the time to compile this information Carlos. It may be a while before these glacial paced organisations reach a conclusion but when will they act on the lack of adherence to orders that have already imposed. Zijin and DRC are just blatantly ignoring them. What is the point of persuing more orders if the ICSID and ICC do nothing to enforce their OWN findings. Fucking joke!

 

[Flekman11]

ICSID will take lithium from Manono off the western market.

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

 

[Purzel-22]

2024 Presenters - Africa Down Under

the DRC Minister of Mines has disappeared from the list of speakers at the conference …

 

[JasonM]

2024 Presenters - Africa Down Under

the DRC Minister of Mines has disappeared from the list of speakers at the conference …

there you go, I was utterly wrong about him committing to turn up. Shows a total lack of decency and respect and plays us (well me anyway) for fools.

 

[RHyNO]

What does Nigel and the BOD do all day? What do they do with their time. Time we pay for? Seems like they do sweet FA. No media relationships, no on country presence, no government relationships here or there. Perhaps the energy required to trash your own reputation and mislead 20k shareholders while paying yourself with their money takes its toll and they get a lot of naps in.

 

[SilentOne]

What does Nigel and the BOD do all day? What do they do with their time. Time we pay for? Seems like they do sweet FA. No media relationships, no on country presence, no government relationships here or there. Perhaps the energy required to trash your own reputation and mislead 20k shareholders while paying yourself with their money takes its toll and they get a lot of naps in.

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Retrobyte]

View attachment 68900

So, the DRC has two A320s - the best we can hope for if they get confiscated is $30m. Less than $10k for each shareholder.

 

[SilentOne]

So, the DRC has two A320s - the best we can hope for if they get confiscated is $30m. Less than $10k for each shareholder.

Retrobyte,

I disagree there are liquid assets all over the place from what I understand - this includes a reported holdings of Gold at a New York Bank - I am sure that the US Treasury know where many of the assets sit outside the DRC.

US Treasury I am also of the understanding can freeze accounts including personal accounts - no point having millions if corrupt officials cant access their stolen funds because US Treasury have blocked access.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Why hasn’t Nigel gone public yet to engender support from private and public institutions? He has a massive shareholder base to leverage to get out message out there and put serious pressure on corrupt DRC players? I get it might affect our chances of a settlement but after 3 years I think we are in serious trouble

 

[Jazz]

Why hasn’t Nigel gone public yet to engender support from private and public institutions? He has a massive shareholder base to leverage to get out message out there and put serious pressure on corrupt DRC players? I get it might affect our chances of a settlement but after 3 years I think we are in serious trouble

I don't disagree.
But we have some funds to see us out another year or so maybe. A lot can change in that time, but a change in tactic may be a good idea.

 

[wombat74]

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

Mate forget this 50 million reasons bullsh1t . It's a load of bollocks . The only reason Nigel needs is to return share holders their $$$ . That's the sole and only reason he exists within AVZ minerals . On the 11/05/22 he decided the best course of action was to take away your access to your money . It is now his job to make sure you once again have access to your money . That's his job. imo