AVZ Discussion 2022

[Rediah]

I wanted to stay in exile.... but I think all is not lost IF this end up in ICC. (IMO)

In the past similar thing happened between Australian TCC:ASX and Pakistan where Pakistan couldn't honor the contract because of their internal politics (or whatever their reasons were). Case was taken in the High Court of British Virgin Island resulted in TCC's favor. “.... TCC then approached the World Bank’s International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) to resolve the dispute,”

And TCC won $5.9 Billion (they sued for $8.5 Billion, some says $16 Billion) . But since Pakistan was/is still struggling with their poor economy, they couldn't pay the money therefore Pakistan foreign assets were frozen including the Roosevelt Hotel, New York owned by the national airlines of Pakistan, PIA.

Eventually Pakistan agreed and negotiated , see below

View attachment 29208
So, from that precedent, we can only assume that even if DRC cant pay in cash, then they have to pay AVZ in assets/resources, again its my own assessment from the past cases.


More below on TCC vs Pak

Reko Diq case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

***** Had Pakistan not cancelled the contract with TCC, Pakistan and its people would have been in much better situation, currently Pakistan is on the verge of default with only $4 Billion in their reserves.

This is what i think based on the only case I followed of ICSID.


Pakistan is as corrupt as DRC if not more.. But in DRC case, they are more underdeveloped and hence not as economically strong. The longer these minerals stays underground, the more wait DRC have to do to put their filthy hands on the money from it, so I am sure they would want to expedite this as well even if it means China foot the bill at the end. For DRC, it doesnt matter who owns/mines Manono, at the end of the day all they care is their pockets are filled and are not worried about their international reputation as, either you take it or leave it, as there are already many buyers out there even if it means selling it dirt cheap or at the expense of their people's lives.

Does the ICC/ICSID process works? Yes
Does it take time? Yes... unfortunately it took bit of time in Reko Diq case, even after the first ruling it took 3-4years for money started coming to SHs but it was good money.

Will it get enforced? Yes
Did Pakistan pay? Yes, started paying in 2022 with first payment of $900m, then $2B, and still paying dearly to this day..

And now even Saudi investing in Reko Diq!

At this stage, not sure what more us SH can do other than wait and trust the BoD and let it take its course and stay put. Its not easy, but we have no other option. ( I hope its Prayer emoji and not high five)

 

[Remark]

It didn't take long for this tool to rub his chinese funded hands together with glee...


https://twitter.com/tommyr345/status/1785512081124741459?t=Yhm-V7PZT0kG2YFa5culBg&s=19

 

[TheCount]

Old mate up to his old tricks again..........

 

[SilentOne]

Old mate up to his old tricks again..........

View attachment 61950

I havent lost sleep over AVZ delisting. I think the BOD have been very stretegic about the delisting.

I will sleep soundly tonight.

Ohhh I wonder how the Shorters are sleeping (not really).

Do your own research.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[TheCount]

 

[Doc]

View attachment 61951

Yeah not the swankiest digs in town but will save us a dollar.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Pretty modest digs which is good to see, a drop in the ocean with Graeme and Peter Clark’s salaries though, do we need these guys anymore? Prefer to save 450k per annum then require a technical director (bfs in the can) and a chairman who hasn’t done fuck all since he gave himself heaps of options then went into a 2 year halt. I know I’m harping but seriously?

 

[David Krappenschitz]

The one thing I would like to know is the DRC’s reasons for not complying with interim order, like what was their rebuttal to the ICSID ruling exactly? If we knew this we’d have a more decent idea of what’s happening. Guessing that info is not allowed to be released

 

[TheCount]

Pretty modest digs which is good to see, a drop in the ocean with Graeme and Peter Clark’s salaries though, do we need these guys anymore? Prefer to save 450k per annum then require a technical director (bfs in the can) and a chairman who hasn’t done fuck all since he gave himself heaps of options then went into a 2 year halt. I know I’m harping but seriously?

We have a BOD of 11 - how many of those are no longer required? Problem will be separation in their contracts will be just as delicious as those free share and options they've hoovered along the way...

 

[Doc]

The one thing I would like to know is the DRC’s reasons for not complying with interim order, like what was their rebuttal to the ICSID ruling exactly? If we knew this we’d have a more decent idea of what’s happening. Guessing that info is not allowed to be released

DRC's unofficial response was

 

[Samus]

I havent lost sleep over AVZ delisting. I think the BOD have been very stretegic about the delisting.

I will sleep soundly tonight.

Ohhh I wonder how the Shorters are sleeping (not really).

Do your own research.

Regards,

SilentOne

Can't say it's given me the warm and fuzzies silent, but I don't think they had any other choice that wasn't worse.
The position that puts us in isn't fantastic but this whole fucking mess hasn't been fantastic either.

All I'm personally interested in at this point is holding the these fuckers accountable, then I hope we either sell or squeeze billions in compensation out of the cunts over the next decade.

The shit we've witnessed and they've so far got away with you wouldn't even read about it. FMD if you'd told me this is what was going to happen a few years back I'd have told you you're completely out of your fucking mind and laughed in your face.

 

[Nbaz]

If I was a dodgy Chinese business...there's two things I could do...tell CATH to make a take over offer of say 40-50 cents and obviously they would then get the ML and away they go(they would tell the government they would pay all fines also)Or, just sit and wait until AVZ relinquish the tenement then swoop in, that last one has a risk of someone else putting a sweet offer ahead and stealing it.

Maybe this is just hope talking but I think that's our best bet.

 

[SilentOne]

If I was a dodgy Chinese business...there's two things I could do...tell CATH to make a take over offer of say 40-50 cents and obviously they would then get the ML and away they go(they would tell the government they would pay all fines also)Or, just sit and wait until AVZ relinquish the tenement then swoop in, that last one has a risk of someone else putting a sweet offer ahead and stealing it.

Maybe this is just hope talking but I think that's our best bet.

Fortunately you are not on the Board.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Pokok]

Question 1 , the wording of selling the asset whilst delisted , if it has not been sold by now why would anybody want to buy a problem of this magnitude , they don't have a mining licence so who would want it , some say could be years in the court well i'm 65 I don't have years .
Question 2 , how much do you think a shorter would pay for a persons shares and where do you find them .
Thanks in advance

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Hi Pokok,

Feel your situation mate, shithouse.

Spoke with someone selling their shares today who refused to go lower then last traded. If you make a post on hotcrapper (crawling with shorters) with an email address (maybe make a new one if you want to protect identity) you should get some nibbles. Don’t go too low as they will be far more desperate then us given perpetual timeframe (could be 6 weeks or 2 years)

 

[Hudnut]

Question 1 , the wording of selling the asset whilst delisted , if it has not been sold by now why would anybody want to buy a problem of this magnitude , they don't have a mining licence so who would want it , some say could be years in the court well i'm 65 I don't have years .
Question 2 , how much do you think a shorter would pay for a persons shares and where do you find them .
Thanks in advance

Answer to question 1. Someone who won't have a problem getting the ML because they have something the DRC officials want, or they participate in the snack economy.

As for delisting:
- If we delist while waiting to sort out ownership issues, I can't sell my shares.
- for the last 2 years of suspension while sorting out ownership issues, I couldn't sell my shares.

No difference to me. Either way I'm waiting for a resolution or a sale.

 

[Nbaz]

Fortunately you are not on the Board.

Regards,

SilentOne

No and I totally agree. I've got a fair investment in AVZ and like all others I'm pretty disappointed in the situation. I'm just trying to think of all angles. If our 20mil loan comes through and we go on fighting the good fight, that's great, but then what happens when that $20mil runs out and we are no closer to success? There has to be an end game, borrowing money to keep the lights on isn't going to work forever.
I know this train of thought will be ridiculed by some but believe me, I want this to succeed for my family and all of yours, I'm just trying to see every angle

 

[Retrobyte]

why would anybody want to buy a problem of this magnitude , they don't have a mining licence so who would want it

Players who want the larest strategic battery metals resource on the planet. The Chinese obviously want it, but there will be others who come knocking on the door

 

[Xerof]

Cookers gonna cook imo

Not even worth my time pointing out the numerous glaring errors in those posts like I did when he was crapping on about the purported 20 week master plan blueprint 26 weeks ago because I have covered it previously and clearly no one here cares about the truth

If anyone can actually prove that Dathcom didn't relinquish the north using the mining code I would love to hear it. Answers can be in French or English as I can read both. In the meantime I will be reviewing my notes of what Nigel said at the 2022 AGM regarding this matter and reading the exact wording of the May 4th 2022 official announcement by AVZ which doesn't mention any of that nonsense (and if it had of included that purported information I would have immediately sold all of my shares and avoided suspension) while I wait lmao

I'll take up the challenge Carlos....

Ministerial decree 00031 moved to nullify the relinquishment of the North and reinstate 13359 in its entirety to DATHCOM.

Why was this?

How about because of legal issues relating to unrealised promises and false pretence, as Outcast points out in his timeline, which I recently posted here. Effectively, this unwinds the North entirely, and leaves 13359 reunified and in the rightful name of DATHCOM. Remember, this Decree was initiated by DRC.....

So forget about all this talk of form filling with boxes ticked for relinquishment and so on. irrelevant, see first sentence

Yes, but... then came Ministerial decree 00032 , which revoked DATHCOM's ownership of 13359 in its entirety, for reasons not in the mining code (AVZ aren't being nice to other shareholders, etc)

AVZ assert that this decree is illegal and took it to ISCID

It is this decree that the ISCID case is all about - an illegal strip

#AVZ loves Ministerial Decree #31

Manono Lithium evaporates if we win at ISCID, IMO

 

[Samus]

I'll take up the challenge Carlos....

Ministerial decree 00031 moved to nullify the relinquishment of the North and reinstate 13359 in its entirety to DATHCOM.

Why was this?

How about because of legal issues relating to unrealised promises and false pretence, as Outcast points out in his timeline, which I recently posted here. Effectively, this unwinds the North entirely, and leaves 13359 reunified and in the rightful name of DATHCOM. Remember, this Decree was initiated by DRC.....

So forget about all this talk of form filling with boxes ticked for relinquishment and so on. irrelevant, see first sentence

Yes, but... then came Ministerial decree 00032 , which revoked DATHCOM's ownership of 13359 in its entirety, for reasons not in the mining code (AVZ aren't being nice to other shareholders, etc)

AVZ assert that this decree is illegal and took it to ISCID

It is this decree that the ISCID case is all about - an illegal strip

#AVZ loves Ministerial Decree #31

Manono Lithium evaporates if we win at ISCID, IMO

That's a nice thought xerof, seems Zijin have (illegally) muscled their way in and made it an expensive proposition for the Congolese to kick them out.
Guaranteed the Chinese exerting pressure on their piss weak corrupt government and handing out snacks behind the scenes as well.
They've also stolen our core library and infrastructure, started work illegally on the Hydro plant and continue their illegal drilling and announcing it all on the stock exchange as if all their claims are legit whilst being backed by cominiere and other unsavoury elements of the government and media.
They should have already evaporated if there was any sign of anybody following things like the law or the mining code.
I wish it were that simple but I don't reckon it will be.
It'd all be very interesting if we weren't the ones caught up in it.

To your point though, my reading of the situation has been the same and I reckon you're exactly right. The tenement split we agreed to under false pretences is null and void along with the decree. Not only that the number of carries mysteriously increased to include all of our assets which was never something anybody agreed to even under duress.