AVZ Discussion 2022

[Dave Evans]

Hey Dave for those here not on X I see you posted Zijin now have 16 drill rigs operating on the area illegally seized from Dathcom.

That sounds like an unprecedented large number of drill rigs on site as the DRC authorities continue to look the other way.

Yeh I probably should have kept that private, now the trolls will be wondering if they can use it to feed panic.

I only used it to remind the ICC, ICSID and World Bank. My personal view is the DRC aren’t looking the other way, they’ve been embarrassed by this debacle and trying to negotiate their way out of the mess they created. On top of that I don’t think the new ministry has been sworn in yet.

You know what gets me, for the last two years winger’s and whiner’s were complaining about not getting announcements. We have had multiple announcements, many of which a lot of fuckers couldn’t even wrap their heads around, and it looks like it’s on again

That’s the last post here from me mate

 

[Scoota30]

Yeh I probably should have kept that private, now the trolls will be wondering if they can use it to feed panic.

I only used it to remind the ICC, ICSID and World Bank. My personal view is the DRC aren’t looking the other way, they’re embarrassed and trying to negotiate their way out of the mess they created.

With the IGF report now being like 13 months old though and Felix well aware of the case by now with Nigel mentioning at the AGM that he has sat down with Felix (but that he also took a meeting with Pei from memory without us), if Felix was embarrassed wouldn't he just drop the axe and destroy Celestine, Comineire, the Green mamba?? He's wont majority government now, how hard is it really for him to issue a presidential decree and throw a heap of people under the bus but send a strong signal to the DRC and the rest of the world that they actually do mean business?

The negotiation should consist of: "We the DRC have utterly fucked up here and that has been proven by every court case decision so far supporting AVZ, lets issue the ML for the entirety of 13359 no splitting involved".

China still end up with 24% ownership if CATH pay us for it, the only one that gets fucked by that scenario are the people who have done wrong and Zijin (and fuck them they are the worst company in the world).

How hard is it really?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Surely the suspension means negotiations are taking place. Not sure why we have not had an update if suspension was imposed on the 5th - announcement surely incoming.

2nd of Feb not 5th* Pigeons do take a while though.

Interim orders were released by the ICSID on Jan 16th (Tuesday) and the official announcement by AVZ was at 3.44pm on Jan 18th (Thursday). With time difference from the court and the need to run things through lawyers it's understandable that it would take a couple of business days for news to drop. With the suspension happening on Feb 2nd (Friday) it was already weekend Australia time so it should be imminent. Unless it's bad news then management may have deemed it spurious and we won't hear shit from them.

 

[Dazmac66]

Ahh yes - I don't know where the 5th came from. Cheers.

 

[cruiser51]

This requires an official announcement from AVZ to explain the exact reason for and duration of the suspension. Right after Nigel works out how much cash bonus he receives for doing his fucking job obvs

Chapter VIII: Suspension, Settlement and Discontinuance | ICSID

icsid.worldbank.org

Rule 54: Suspension of the Proceeding

(1) The Tribunal shall suspend the proceeding by agreement of the parties.

(2) The Tribunal may suspend the proceeding upon the request of either party or on its own initiative, except as otherwise provided in the ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulations or these Rules.

(3) The Tribunal shall give the parties the opportunity to make observations before ordering a suspension pursuant to paragraph (2).

(4) In its order suspending the proceeding, the Tribunal shall specify:

(a) the period of the suspension;

(b) any relevant terms; and

(c) a modified procedural calendar to take effect on resumption of the proceeding, if necessary.

(5) The Tribunal shall extend the period of a suspension prior to its expiry by agreement of the parties.

(6) The Tribunal may extend the period of a suspension prior to its expiry, on its own initiative or upon a party’s request, after giving the parties an opportunity to make observations.

(7) The Secretary-General shall suspend the proceeding pursuant to paragraph (1) or extend the suspension pursuant to paragraph (5) if the Tribunal has not yet been constituted or if there is a vacancy on the Tribunal. The parties shall inform the Secretary-General of the period of the suspension and any terms agreed to by the parties.

Just a minor point:
The DRC just elected a new president and the way I understand it, the current DRC government is an Interim Government and until the new government has been appointed, the current operators can only make decisions based on steady as she goes, without major decisions.

The DRC could have used this as an argument to throw an other spanner in the wheel.

 

[wombat74]

Yeh I probably should have kept that private, now the trolls will be wondering if they can use it to feed panic.

I only used it to remind the ICC, ICSID and World Bank. My personal view is the DRC aren’t looking the other way, they’ve been embarrassed by this debacle and trying to negotiate their way out of the mess they created. On top of that I don’t think the new ministry has been sworn in yet.

You know what gets me, for the last two years winger’s and whiner’s were complaining about not getting announcements. We have had multiple announcements, many of which a lot of fuckers couldn’t even wrap their heads around, and it looks like it’s on again

That’s the last post here from me mate

 

[Remark]

Johnno is a legend

https://x.com/jonnnono/status/1754831245492506917?s=20

Celestin/Alain @cominiere are arcing up again although they seem a little more subdued. I'm pretty sure the got a "pull your head in" from someone higher up. They need to be poked a little more to illicit a response IMO.

 

[Frank]

What an absolutely clueless dipshit of a leader. He has got NO IDEA what his Country is doing.........

"THIS" is the problem we face - the negative forces obviously feed off his lack of ability.....

Nigel - get over there and lance this boil of a useless Politician. Gloves off mate, diplomacy is dead when it's only one-sided..

TC.

PS - welcome back @Frank

Thanks Bro, I can Count on you

Looks like things are Heating Up in the DRC with the United States & Japan still taking a keen interest in their Critical Minerals atm, as

The USA announces an agreement between GECAMINES and JOGMEC

The USA, which leads the Mineral Security Partnership (MSP), announced Monday, February 5, 2024, the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Générale des Carrières et des Mines (GECAMINES) of the DRC and the Organization Institute for Metals and Energy Safety (JOGMEC) of Japan on the exploration, production and processing of critical minerals.

Critical minerals are essential to the global economy and the technologies that power the clean energy transition.

According to the US Department of State, this MoU will create a framework for cooperation in the areas of mining and mineral resources with the aim of expanding business opportunities for the parties.

“This landmark collaboration, forged through dialogue between MSP partners, creates a framework for coordination in the exploration, production and processing of minerals, in line with our shared commitment to the development of the Lobito Corridor through the Partnership.

For Global Investment Infrastructure (PGI),” Washington announced in a statement, stressing that coordination among MSP partners is a powerful demonstration for securing and diversifying supply chains for essential minerals, which bring economic benefits to local communities and source countries such as the DRC.

The USA has also specified that GECAMINES will be a key player in the Lobito Corridor project “thanks to its large portfolio of joint venture projects in production, representing more than 1.5 million tonnes of copper cathodes and 100,000 tons of cobalt hydroxide and more to be put into service on projects under construction.

The MSP is a collaboration of 13 countries and the EU aimed at catalyzing public and private investment in responsible supply chains of critical minerals globally.

Its partners include Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Norway, the Republic of Korea, Sweden, the United Kingdom, the United States United and the European Union (represented by the European Commission).

The goal of the Mineral Security Partnership is to accelerate the development of diversified and sustainable supply chains of critical energy minerals by working with host governments and industry to facilitate targeted financial and diplomatic support for strategic projects throughout the along the value chain.

mediacongo


Next Stop Manono, who No Knows

Toot Toot

Talk about

Food for thought

Frank

 

[Frank]

Johnno is a legend

https://x.com/jonnnono/status/1754831245492506917?s=20

Celestin/Alain @cominiere are arcing up again although they seem a little more subdued. I'm pretty sure the got a "pull your head in" from someone higher up. They need to be poked a little more to illicit a response IMO.

Jonnno for President / Prime Minister

https://x.com/jonnnono/status/1755046808487649336?s=20

https://x.com/AfricanMiners/status/1754758091143578042?s=20

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Deal between USA and Gecamines/Japan is a significant deal - no way USA is going to build the Lobito Corridor if Zijin is the beneficiary?

Thanks for Sharing Franck I shared it across on crapper hope you don't mind

 

[Winenut]

Great seeing Frank back again and boy is he on fire!!!

 

[timb89]

Deal between USA and Gecamines/Japan is a significant deal - no way USA is going to build the Lobito Corridor if Zijin is the beneficiary?

Thanks for Sharing Franck I shared it across on crapper hope you don't mind

Agreed. More West input the better.

 

[Doc]

Im having a guess here but perhaps DRC asked AVZ to suspend the ICSID as they are now willing to negotiate.
We've absolutely roasted Nigel before ( ill put my hand up and say me included ) for saying things will happen and then they dont. So if he announced now that there are negotiations underway and nothing comes of it then he'll be roasted again. He already has former share holders trying to sue him, im sure he doesnt want to give these bastards any more ammo.

Its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario

 

[SilentOne]

Im having a guess here but perhaps DRC asked AVZ to suspend the ICSID as they are now willing to negotiate.
We've absolutely roasted Nigel before ( ill put my hand up and say me included ) for saying things will happen and then they dont. So if he announced now that there are negotiations underway and nothing comes of it then he'll be roasted again. He already has former share holders trying to sue him, im sure he doesnt want to give these bastards any more ammo.

Its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario

Doc,

As we all know things are very fluid in the DRC - one minute you have an agreement the next minute you dont - no fault of Nigel or the Board for how the DRC conducts their business and their ethics.

Nigel and his team have done an excellent job in keeping us in the game.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Carlos Danger]

Im having a guess here but perhaps DRC asked AVZ to suspend the ICSID as they are now willing to negotiate.
We've absolutely roasted Nigel before ( ill put my hand up and say me included ) for saying things will happen and then they dont. So if he announced now that there are negotiations underway and nothing comes of it then he'll be roasted again. He already has former share holders trying to sue him, im sure he doesnt want to give these bastards any more ammo.

Its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario

An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.

My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)

Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID

The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).

icsid.worldbank.org

Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)

Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.

If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).

If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

 

[Deleted member 2378]

Yeah i'll probably avoid taking anything on board from you, i'm sure you think all could be sorted if Management resigned, you are a troll and cocksucka

You’re fucking dumb. Read the stupid ICSID rules. It stated there crystal clear. If you have not enough braincells to understand what you read I can’t help you. Of course it’s possible both agreed because of negotiations. But the shithole of DRC never did anything in our favor yet, thats my opinion that it’s more likely they use it to delay. Jesus, use the few cells that are left. Of course the DRC will kick out zijin immediately, who paid hundreds of millions of bribe money to give the complete license to a little Australien company. Because the DRC learned after years….maybe they should start to be the good guys? I saw santa last year, didn’t helped with my wish, must be the fact because I’m a Chinese spy troll.

And of course nothing would be sorted if the management resigned, what a stupid answer. Then they would throw us out of the window like the poor belgian soul from the votings. I believe the management underestimated the corruption, if we had give them something back at a earlier stage not the nuclear stage we have right now, then I think we would have a deal and could continue. But who fuckin knows, if you haven’t a Time Machine we will never find out.

 

[wombat74]

An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.

My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)

Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID

The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).

icsid.worldbank.org

Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)

Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.

If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).

If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

So in other words stall and delay tactics ?

 

[Doc]

Doc,

As we all know things are very fluid in the DRC - one minute you have an agreement the next minute you dont - no fault of Nigel or the Board for how the DRC conducts their business and their ethics.

Nigel and his team have done an excellent job in keeping us in the game.

Regards,

SilentOne

100%, that's what I was saying. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Things change there in an instant

 

[Doc]

An announcement should be made at least in regards to who initiated the suspension. What's material is whether it was done under agreement by the parties, request by either of the parties or by the initiative of the ICSID.

My bet is the DRC have failed to pay their share of the required advances outlined in Administrative and Financial Regulations 14 & 15 and an amount (most likely the full amount lol) is still owed 15 days after they received notice under Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a) so the proceedings have been suspended by the ICSID under 16(2)(b)

Suspension, Settlement, and Discontinuance - ICSID Convention Arbitration (2022 Rules) | ICSID

The proceeding may be suspended or discontinued by agreement of the parties or upon the request of a party (Arbitration Rules 54-56).

icsid.worldbank.org

Discontinuance for Lack of Payment of Required Advances (ICSID Administrative and Financial Regulation 16)

Except in annulment proceedings, both parties are responsible for paying the advances to meet the costs of the proceeding unless the parties agree otherwise (Administrative and Financial Regulation 15(1)). Failure to do so may lead to the discontinuance of the proceeding.

If the amounts requested are not paid in full within 30 days of a request, the Secretary-General informs both parties of the default and gives either of them an opportunity to make the outstanding payment (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(a)).

If any part of the required payment remains outstanding 15 days after notice of default is given, the Secretary-General may suspend the proceeding until payment is made, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

If any proceeding is stayed for non-payment for more than 90 consecutive days, the Secretary-General may discontinue the proceeding, after giving notice to the parties and the Tribunal (Administrative and Financial Regulation 16(2)(b)).

So whats the upside for the side paying? DRC stop paying and after 90 days the Sec-General can discontinue the proceedings? Does judgment default to the side that is up to date?

 

[Carlos Danger]

So in other words stall and delay tactics ?

Just a guess by me. But I doubt it is suspended because of negotiations as they can happen without the need to suspend proceedings eg the much hyped but called a smokescreen by me MoU. And I can't see AVZ agreeing to any form of suspension unless a deal is done in which case the proceedings should go into discontinuance or possibly a final award recorded acknowledging the deal.

So for me that only really leaves an issue with one of the arbitrators or some type of ratfuckery by the DRC as the most likely reasons for suspension. Whatever has happened let's hope we get an official announcement by the company soon to explain what the fuck is going on.