AVZ Discussion 2022

[Misfits]

A good post on HC from Amovatio. His last sentence is interesting.....

Amovatio​

82 Posts.
510
Date:12/04/23Time:18:23:45Post #:67242470

wombat74 said: ↑
Well posted Wombat. The ASX Outcome I am sure is what AVZ would have wanted while the Legal cases and investigations by the DRC Ministry are progressing. I am convinced the legal Counsel being provided to our Management team has the best interests of our shareholders at the forefront of the actions being undertaken. The ASX had no other option but to keep us in suspension which ends any speculation on the date for resuming trading.
I am sure as some have already alluded to, the ASX was being pressured from several large retail shareholders and media sources to get disclosure from AVZ Management on the deliberations with the DRC Govt. Now that source of information has dried up, at least for now, only plain old speculation can feed the negative ramps.
It will be interesting to know whether *****************, AFR or any DRC journalists will be following the Legal case in the ICC and providing daily reporting. I am sure the DRC President will have an interested observer present to report back to his Ministry so he can gather critical information to provide further clarity who specifically is behind the corruption and what their intentions have been. If the information provided by the Directorate of Finance is proven in the ICC then it will only be a matter of time before we hear more on the ML.
That being said, I applaud AVZ for not disclosing information that would undoubtedly be used to discredit AVZ management transactions and ultimately cause further delays to our case while information is sourced by the Courts. As a former Plaintiff on several legal cases keeping your competitors blindsided of your transactions and strategy suppresses their ability to seek further information which they would say they were not privy to in advance of defending their position. That's the simple way to win and drive the outcome you want.
I am also of the view that while these cases are continuing AVZ management has control of the timing to release future announcements which on the award of the ML will provide further evidence of results, drilling investigations, pending off take agreements, funding arrangements, and timeline to FID which would reduce any impact to the current listed SP when the ASX is satisfied we have met their disclosure obligations.
Let's hope the following week provides the glimmer of hope to benefit all shareholders and end the trading suspension.

 

[thegh0stwithin]

Anyone else actually ok with the fact that this will prevent the company from having to constantly put out stupid extensions every month? We know there's shit going on, just leave it suspended till it's sorted.

It does feel like we're getting closer and closer to that point. More info out in the open eg zijin corruption letter. More specific allegations being laid ie Celestin Kibeya stealing 2.2mil etc. We know now that embassies are involved.

Eventually, somethings gonna happen .

(( my guess ))
Fk-off Zijin, - Transaction against shareholder agreement and CK had no authority anyway.
There is absolutely 0 benefit to DRC for Zijin being involved, no motivation to fight for it.
Anyone that was involved is either now getting thrown under the bus or trying to distance themselves from it.

Cath buys that 15% direct from Cominiere at same price they buy 9% from AVZ - Fair pricing all around no one can argue otherwise.
This also means we don't have to throw 10% AVZ equity into our offer.

I also reckon there's gonna be some US/EU funding in there somewhere, likely for region/value-chain than AVZ specific, but tied to progress on fighting corruption - read: fighing chinese fukery and robbery. Little sweetener to help convince them to give zijin the boot.
))

It is the first time I have heard of the concept of handing a percentage of the right of first refusal percentage to CATH. Really smart, on a number of fronts. I like it.

 

[Onthefm]

I think investors are getting their knickers in a twist over this nothing announcement. The reason the BoD are keeping quiet is because sensitive issues are being discussed, to release these issues now would not be in the interests of shareholders and could give Zijin and others an advantage. As I said before this latest announcement is a nothing announcement and quite frankly I'm not concerned about it.

Although I didn't see best bod on the asx in that post.

 

[DoubleA]

It is the first time I have heard of the concept of handing a percentage of the right of first refusal percentage to CATH. Really smart, on a number of fronts. I like it.

The whole issue is the difficulty in enforcing the first right of refusal and getting that 15% back off Zijin, whether AVZ purchase it or give it directly to CATH.

This is why I have suggested trying to enforce the terms of the CATH agreement and obtaining the $240 million of funding. Get some of the powerful Chinese on side with skin in the game which may help to move things along and put pressure on DRC to grant the mining licence. It may discourage other Chinese entities from competing against CATH as well.

This would require us to "run the gauntlet" so to speak and risk ending up with 36% if everything went against us. The alternative appears to be that we stay in this gridlock for years on end. When I have mentioned this in the past people don't seem to get it. If we keep continuing down this path of multiple ICC cases with all Zijin's delaying tactics then realistically we may sort out the jurisdictional issues in 2024. Then get into the details of the cases in 2025-26 and then hope for a favourable resolution after that. It is a long time to wait and hope the corrupt DRC Government don't take action against AVZ before then.

Maybe the board of directors have some sort of additional information which makes them think continuing down this path is the right way to go. I hope that is true. Maybe there will be a change in Government at the next election. Who knows how that would affect things.

 

[Chilla]

The whole issue is the difficulty in enforcing the first right of refusal and getting that 15% back off Zijin, whether AVZ purchase it or give it directly to CATH.

This is why I have suggested trying to enforce the terms of the CATH agreement and obtaining the $240 million of funding. Get some of the powerful Chinese on side with skin in the game which may help to move things along and put pressure on DRC to grant the mining licence. It may discourage other Chinese entities from competing against CATH as well.

This would require us to "run the gauntlet" so to speak and risk ending up with 36% if everything went against us. The alternative appears to be that we stay in this gridlock for years on end. When I have mentioned this in the past people don't seem to get it. If we keep continuing down this path of multiple ICC cases with all Zijin's delaying tactics then realistically we may sort out the jurisdictional issues in 2024. Then get into the details of the cases in 2025-26 and then hope for a favourable resolution after that. It is a long time to wait and hope the corrupt DRC Government don't take action against AVZ before then.

Maybe the board of directors have some sort of additional information which makes them think continuing down this path is the right way to go. I hope that is true. Maybe there will be a change in Government at the next election. Who knows how that would affect things.

That’s a NO from me!

 

[Xerof]

And a NO from him. To get into bed with Zijin, the cheating cunts in all this, is simply untenable.

 

[SilentOne]

The whole issue is the difficulty in enforcing the first right of refusal and getting that 15% back off Zijin, whether AVZ purchase it or give it directly to CATH.

This is why I have suggested trying to enforce the terms of the CATH agreement and obtaining the $240 million of funding. Get some of the powerful Chinese on side with skin in the game which may help to move things along and put pressure on DRC to grant the mining licence. It may discourage other Chinese entities from competing against CATH as well.

This would require us to "run the gauntlet" so to speak and risk ending up with 36% if everything went against us. The alternative appears to be that we stay in this gridlock for years on end. When I have mentioned this in the past people don't seem to get it. If we keep continuing down this path of multiple ICC cases with all Zijin's delaying tactics then realistically we may sort out the jurisdictional issues in 2024. Then get into the details of the cases in 2025-26 and then hope for a favourable resolution after that. It is a long time to wait and hope the corrupt DRC Government don't take action against AVZ before then.

Maybe the board of directors have some sort of additional information which makes them think continuing down this path is the right way to go. I hope that is true. Maybe there will be a change in Government at the next election. Who knows how that would affect things.

Under no circumstances would we want to slip under 51% - we want to retain control because that is the only way the DRC and Shareholders are going to receive true value. Otherwise we run the risk of our profits being offshored - in my opinion. In addition, one of the conditions of the issuance of the mining license is that someone holds 51% stake - please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

Silence

 

[9cardomaha]

Anchoring the 12 for ZJ and with that number they can still get a healthy dose of fuck off and die from me too.

 

[DoubleA]

Under no circumstances would we want to slip under 51% - we want to retain control because that is the only way the DRC and Shareholders are going to receive true value. Otherwise we run the risk of our profits being offshored - in my opinion. In addition, one of the conditions of the issuance of the mining license is that someone holds 51% stake - please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

Silence

It is Dathcom which needs to hold 51%. Look at Komoa if you want an example where the end shareholders all hold less than 50%.


This just seems to be a never ending stalemate where Adele Kayinda, Antoinette and Cominiere all cooperate with Zijin. I am trying to think what will change.

My hopes are:

- Vital Kamerhe, maybe when he gets some free time away from stuntin' on everyone in the Brabus G wagon he can change things. He is a new person in this situation at least, but his vehicle choice and prior history makes me skeptical of his motivations.

- Martin Fayulu, maybe he gets elected and is less under the control of China. Although when I talk to people in the DRC they say the election process is generally controlled by whoever is currently in power.


What are other people's thoughts on the potential change that will occur that will allow things to progress?

When we first went into suspension I think people were hoping that AVZ were negotiating in the background and then one day we just get notification that there she is boys, the mining licence, we sorted it out! Hopefully there is still a chance of this and the negotiations are progressing.

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Under no circumstances would we want to slip under 51% - we want to retain control because that is the only way the DRC and Shareholders are going to receive true value. Otherwise we run the risk of our profits being offshored - in my opinion. In addition, one of the conditions of the issuance of the mining license is that someone holds 51% stake - please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

Silence

Correct

 

[DoubleA]

Correct

Incorrect - ie Kamoa - a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

 

[Samus]

 

[Nbaz]

That wasn't the case at time of mining application ; percentages can shift there afterwards. I'm pretty sure we had this conversation before, Komoa mine was held under Komoa Holdings a subsidiary of Ivanhoe ; Komoa Holdings ‘ivanhoe’ held ‘80%’ of the Komoa project; Ivanhoe then sold 49.5% of Komoa Holdings off to Zijin for 400/500m.....the percentages after mining application have shifted after a few dealings to what they are now.

Obe, keen to here your take on today's announcement if you care to share(and haven't already)

 

[BenGriffo]

Incorrect - ie Kamoa - a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

Ivanhoe was definitely a majority holder at some stage. Not sure if before/after the ML was issued. It was certainly split before it hit production though when they sold half their stake to our mates that start with Z. DRC Govt picked up more after that. And of course a snack company gets a little 0.8% for their troubles.
---

https://www.mining.com/ivanhoes-giant-kamoa-kakula-copper-project-in-drc-keeps-getting-bigger/

Summary of DRC Mining Code below (not the most interesting read, prolly 10 minutes of your life you will never get back - fyi no mention of the 51% majority required in here unless I'm blind. I have heard the 51% quite a few times from posters and I thought someone posted a reference link or doc with it showing it was in the mining code but can't find it now Happy to be corrected if someone can point it out. Definitely I can see why AVZI wants to keep it's majority stake in Dathcom though, slips below and it's goodbye control, same as any JV.
---

Spotlight: Mining law in Democratic Republic of the Congo

Mining represents a critical sector for the development of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). According to the World Bank, the mining sector…

www.lexology.com

 

[DoubleA]

That wasn't the case at time of mining application ; percentages can shift there afterwards. I'm pretty sure we had this conversation before, Komoa mine was held under Komoa Holdings a subsidiary of Ivanhoe ; Komoa Holdings ‘ivanhoe’ held ‘80%’ of the Komoa project; Ivanhoe then sold 49.5% of Komoa Holdings off to Zijin for 400/500m.....the percentages after mining application have shifted after a few dealings to what they are now.

Mining application/licence = Dathcom. Not AVZ.


You seem to be making a habit of getting the two confused.

 

[Charbella]

The trolls are having a full moon party tonight! What has changed since yesterday? Nothing!

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Incorrect - ie Kamoa - a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

Nope - it's in the 2018 mining code. 51% minimum.

 

[DoubleA]

Nope - it's in the 2018 mining code. 51% minimum.

The applicant, Dathcom, does have 51% as required. If you don't believe me then all good.



I am more interested in people's thoughts as to what can potentially change in DRC for them to finally issue the licence.


Vital Kamerhe?

Martin Fayulu?

Do people think negotiations will be ongoing in the background? Seemed like AVZ could not get meetings and were no longer in the loop. I hope we are not left waiting for 2-3 years while things play out at the ICC.

 

[Winenut]

Nope - it's in the 2018 mining code. 51% minimum.

It's Dathcom...it's 51%....that's the mining code...... that's what AVZ needs....minimum for the ML

It's also what AVZ has "legally" acquired.....in fact 51% is less than what AVZ has "legally" acquired

The other cunts have "supposedly" acquired a percentage in Dathcom but bottom fucking line NONE of those "alleged" acquisitions are "legal"

Fukkem

Bring on the ICC

 

[BRICK]

Thanks
I needed a laugh!