AVZ Discussion 2022

[wombat74]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

I think we need to show China /DRC we have the $$$$ to go the distance before they take any of this seriously . At the moment we are like a riffle without bullets . Threatening , but completely useless .

 

[Dazmac66]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Thanks for taking the time to compile this information Carlos. It may be a while before these glacial paced organisations reach a conclusion but when will they act on the lack of adherence to orders that have already imposed. Zijin and DRC are just blatantly ignoring them. What is the point of persuing more orders if the ICSID and ICC do nothing to enforce their OWN findings. Fucking joke!

 

[Flekman11]

ICSID will take lithium from Manono off the western market.

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

 

[Purzel-22]

2024 Presenters - Africa Down Under

the DRC Minister of Mines has disappeared from the list of speakers at the conference …

 

[JasonM]

2024 Presenters - Africa Down Under

the DRC Minister of Mines has disappeared from the list of speakers at the conference …

there you go, I was utterly wrong about him committing to turn up. Shows a total lack of decency and respect and plays us (well me anyway) for fools.

 

[RHyNO]

What does Nigel and the BOD do all day? What do they do with their time. Time we pay for? Seems like they do sweet FA. No media relationships, no on country presence, no government relationships here or there. Perhaps the energy required to trash your own reputation and mislead 20k shareholders while paying yourself with their money takes its toll and they get a lot of naps in.

 

[SilentOne]

What does Nigel and the BOD do all day? What do they do with their time. Time we pay for? Seems like they do sweet FA. No media relationships, no on country presence, no government relationships here or there. Perhaps the energy required to trash your own reputation and mislead 20k shareholders while paying yourself with their money takes its toll and they get a lot of naps in.

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Retrobyte]

View attachment 68900

So, the DRC has two A320s - the best we can hope for if they get confiscated is $30m. Less than $10k for each shareholder.

 

[SilentOne]

So, the DRC has two A320s - the best we can hope for if they get confiscated is $30m. Less than $10k for each shareholder.

Retrobyte,

I disagree there are liquid assets all over the place from what I understand - this includes a reported holdings of Gold at a New York Bank - I am sure that the US Treasury know where many of the assets sit outside the DRC.

US Treasury I am also of the understanding can freeze accounts including personal accounts - no point having millions if corrupt officials cant access their stolen funds because US Treasury have blocked access.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Why hasn’t Nigel gone public yet to engender support from private and public institutions? He has a massive shareholder base to leverage to get out message out there and put serious pressure on corrupt DRC players? I get it might affect our chances of a settlement but after 3 years I think we are in serious trouble

 

[Jazz]

Why hasn’t Nigel gone public yet to engender support from private and public institutions? He has a massive shareholder base to leverage to get out message out there and put serious pressure on corrupt DRC players? I get it might affect our chances of a settlement but after 3 years I think we are in serious trouble

I don't disagree.
But we have some funds to see us out another year or so maybe. A lot can change in that time, but a change in tactic may be a good idea.

 

[wombat74]

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

Mate forget this 50 million reasons bullsh1t . It's a load of bollocks . The only reason Nigel needs is to return share holders their $$$ . That's the sole and only reason he exists within AVZ minerals . On the 11/05/22 he decided the best course of action was to take away your access to your money . It is now his job to make sure you once again have access to your money . That's his job. imo

 

[Cumquat Cap]

What does Nigel and the BOD do all day? What do they do with their time. Time we pay for? Seems like they do sweet FA. No media relationships, no on country presence, no government relationships here or there. Perhaps the energy required to trash your own reputation and mislead 20k shareholders while paying yourself with their money takes its toll and they get a lot of naps in.

Rhyno, do you really think an astute and sought after MD/CEO will have any interest in taking Ben and Nigel’s job? They are working like dogs, thieves at every corner and an angry shareholder base - we are fucked without them so act accordingly and stop bitching and get onto X and get stuck into the DRC leadership plus Zijin like a fucking man

 

[Mute22]

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

Be Nigel in September 2024:

>Wakeup, rollover and check phone for a missed call from the Honourable Penny Wong after emailing office her 2 years ago. Nothing yet, feeling good about tomorrow though!
>Get out of bed and take a stroll through my multi-million dollar 9-bedroom home overlooking the Swan River, hope the seagulls haven’t soiled my 3 boats moored out front again. I’ll have to do another cap raise!
> Jeeves has prepared my usual breakfast, a pineapple fruit salad with pineapple juice and black coffee, a delicious Congolese blend I picked up when I was last in country 3 years ago. Take my pineapple suppository, gotta be healthy.
>Put on my bullet proof vest, and climb into my AVZ funded armoured assault vehicle to push through the mum and dad investors lining my 14 car driveway. Don’t they understand I’m trying to save them?
>Arrive at the office, it’s just me and the intern now. Gotta cut back to save my salary somehow right?
> Boot up windows Vista.
> 12632 new investor emails last night, move that to my ‘to do’ folder, I’ll get to it one day..
>Check accounts payable, $6,773,088.76 overdue to lawyers - forward to the accountant to find some cash.
>Open word document, title it “AGM November 2024 escape routes and security measures”.
ugh I’ll give it to the intern to write my address to shareholders. Just need to make sure it’s long enough there isn’t room for question time.
> Open ICSID portal, enter login details.. “you are 283 in line for international justice, your case is important to us, please hold the line”
>Pull out my Xiomi mobile and open Westbank account - wicked my 40,000 a month pay check came in! Begin browsing Temu for knockoff uggboots.

 

[Panther22]

Be Nigel in September 2024:

>Wakeup, rollover and check phone for a missed call from the Honourable Penny Wong after emailing office her 2 years ago. Nothing yet, feeling good about tomorrow though!
>Get out of bed and take a stroll through my multi-million dollar 9-bedroom home overlooking the Swan River, hope the seagulls haven’t soiled my 3 boats moored out front again. I’ll have to do another cap raise!
> Jeeves has prepared my usual breakfast, a pineapple fruit salad with pineapple juice and black coffee, a delicious Congolese blend I picked up when I was last in country 3 years ago. Take my pineapple suppository, gotta be healthy.
>Put on my bullet proof vest, and climb into my AVZ funded armoured assault vehicle to push through the mum and dad investors lining my 14 car driveway. Don’t they understand I’m trying to save them?
>Arrive at the office, it’s just me and the intern now. Gotta cut back to save my salary somehow right?
> Boot up windows Vista.
> 12632 new investor emails last night, move that to my ‘to do’ folder, I’ll get to it one day..
>Check accounts payable, $6,773,088.76 overdue to lawyers - forward to the accountant to find some cash.
>Open word document, title it “AGM November 2024 escape routes and security measures”.
ugh I’ll give it to the intern to write my address to shareholders. Just need to make sure it’s long enough there isn’t room for question time.
> Open ICSID portal, enter login details.. “you are 283 in line for international justice, your case is important to us, please hold the line”
>Pull out my Xiomi mobile and open Westbank account - wicked my 40,000 a month pay check came in! Begin browsing Temu for knockoff uggboots

Stupid.

 

[Dazmac66]

Starting to agree that we could get some more traction if the whole debacle was more prevalent in the media in Australia and internationally. It is a heist of monumental proportions but nobody appears to be aware of what is going on. Star Casinos were are in the news for for squandering $2 billion - what about 4.6 billion from 20000 shareholders. Get the story out there - put pressure on our useless poillies, diplomats, the Chinese thieves and corrupt DRC scum. Mining magazines, 60 minutes/ current affairs broadcasts, lobby politicians, call on shareholders in an orderly and legitimate social media campaign etc etc . Genuine question - how can it hurt our cause at this point?

 

[Mute22]

Stupid.

Oh sorry, I should have said *SARCASM* at the end of that for some of the slower members of this forum.

 

[RHyNO]

Rhyno, do you really think an astute and sought after MD/CEO will have any interest in taking Ben and Nigel’s job? They are working like dogs, thieves at every corner and an angry shareholder base - we are fucked without them so act accordingly and stop bitching and get onto X and get stuck into the DRC leadership plus Zijin like a fucking man

RHyNO

I think you are wrong - there are 50 million reasons why I believe that Nigel is working exceptionally hard to get Dathcom re-instated and over the line. Nigel is not doing this for his salary I am sure of that.

Its is incredibly difficult to negotiate outcomes with thieves and liars. I fully support the AVZ Board and Nigel.

Regards,

SilentOne

All things considered, id like to actually see any evidence of anything at all from Nigel and the team. Working like dogs. To do exactly what????? Serious question? Because it’s not to develop relationships is it? It’s not to create a basis of trust by being on country and near the mine and protecting the land that is ours? Is it? It’s not to develop media relationships so people can experience the other side of the story not just Tommy narrative. I mean fuck if I had millions in the bank and a performance bonus in my pocket. I’d be rallying media to expose Tommy as a fraud, expose zinjin as in breach of whatever the fuck it is they are breaching, and reminding the aus govt that the largest deposit of lithium is about to slip through their hands. While I appreciate screaming into the vacuum on X (and I do it regularly) I don’t think it’s worth the binary it’s printed on. But hey, all I fucking do is work for a living so who am I to say what these guys should be doing.

 

[SilentOne]

All things considered, id like to actually see any evidence of anything at all from Nigel and the team. Working like dogs. To do exactly what????? Serious question? Because it’s not to develop relationships is it? It’s not to create a basis of trust by being on country and near the mine and protecting the land that is ours? Is it? It’s not to develop media relationships so people can experience the other side of the story not just Tommy narrative. I mean fuck if I had millions in the bank and a performance bonus in my pocket. I’d be rallying media to expose Tommy as a fraud, expose zinjin as in breach of whatever the fuck it is they are breaching, and reminding the aus govt that the largest deposit of lithium is about to slip through their hands. While I appreciate screaming into the vacuum on X (and I do it regularly) I don’t think it’s worth the binary it’s printed on. But hey, all I fucking do is work for a living so who am I to say what these guys should be doing.

RHyNO,

You know how a Board operates and until things are signed, sealed and delivered the Board is not likely to report on those things - especially if they are commercially sensitive. Just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean its not happening. I refer you back to Nigel's share holdings and he definitely has skin in the game.

Unfortunately, it looks as though we are going to have to wait for the ICC & ICSID announcements and again I suspect you know this too.

You would also be aware that the DRC has exceptionally high sovereign risk and I suspect you know this.

I dont believe you to be a fool so that makes me wonder.

Regards,

SilentOne