AVZ Discussion 2022

[Panther22]

Cumquat,

Well I am looking forward to rulings from both the ICSID and ICC - as much as we know from experience how corrupt the DRC is, this corruption will be formally recognized by two international bodies. I suspect these rulings will prevent many international corporations from dealing with the DRC - this is something that the DRC Government does not want.

Keeping in mind that the DRC are compelled to follow any rulings (ICSID & ICC) and if they don't then they run the risk of having their assets seized internationally - landing a DRC jet in France and having it impounded is a real possibility and we have seen that already happen with another government.

This whole process has been painfully drawn out for all of us, however I am looking forward to the rulings and seeing the DRC get a walloping. In addition, the Americans are looking at major investments and they would be heaping heaps of pressure on the DRC to sort their shit out.

The Chinese don't like international rulings against them either - look what they did to Australia and before any ruling by the WTO the Aussie Government suspended WTO action just prior to any outcome.

It has also been previously reported that the DRC have gold bullion in a Vault in New York and there are no doubt many assets that are outside of the DRC that could potentially be seized.

There could potentially be International Arrest Warrants for X Government Officials - thats not something they want either.

Lets simply wait for the ICSID and ICC rulings and me personally I dont see things are at a loss - its just simply dragging on due to the actions of certain nefarious individuals.

Compensation needs to take into consideration;

1. Current and future value of the mine in its entirety
2. The largest known lithium deposit in the world at a high quality
3. The capacity to influence the Lithium Spot Market
4. Unnecessary costs incurred by AVZ/Dathcom due to corruption and failure to abide by their own laws
5. Pain, suffering and loss of income streams and other investments by shareholders
6. Interest
7. etc

Regards,

SilentOne - do your own research

I like what you say Silent One but you have considerably more faith in the system than l do.
Rarely do you hear China ever losing or suffering from these battles, if they do they just ignore and continue on . DRC are lawless, greedy corrupt individuals who profit hugely and run only let the population suffer. They too will ignore with the help of China.
The simple fact there has been no follow up of interim orders by either ICSID or ICC says it all to me.

 

[PutUsernameHere]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, especially those with more experience in international trade, I'm considering the following based on a recent experience:

I recently purchased some parts for my business from an international supplier who requested payment in USD rather than their local currency. I made the transfer through Suncorp Bank. The money was debited from my account, but it didn't reach the supplier for a month. When I contacted Suncorp to find out where the money was, they explained that since the payment was made in USD, it was routed through a U.S. bank as an intermediary before it could be sent to the supplier's bank.

Given this, and considering the current situation with the DRC defying the rulings of the ICC and the ICSID, a point comes to mind. Since the DRC has sold themselves to China and prefers payments in USD instead of their local currency, which has little value, large transactions will be routed through U.S. banks.

Which makes me wonder, under the New York Convention (1958) that mandates the enforcement of international arbitration awards, there could be a scenario where funds transferred in USD through U.S. banks could be held or intercepted until the DRC complies with ICC and ICSID rulings??




When a country does not follow the decisions or awards of the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) and the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC), several consequences can arise:

1. International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID):​

• ICSID Arbitration Awards: When a country (usually a host state) does not comply with an ICSID arbitration award, it can lead to significant diplomatic and financial consequences.
• Enforcement and Recognition: Under the ICSID Convention, awards are binding and must be enforced as if they were a final judgment of a court in that country. A refusal to enforce could lead to loss of credibility and potential sanctions.
• Reputation and Credit Rating: Non-compliance may negatively affect the country’s international reputation, discourage foreign investment, and potentially harm its credit rating.
• Seizure of Assets: The winning party can pursue enforcement in jurisdictions where the non-compliant state has assets. This can lead to the seizure of state-owned assets abroad.
• Political and Economic Isolation: Continued non-compliance may result in strained diplomatic relations and can lead to economic isolation or loss of access to international financial markets.

2. International Chamber of Commerce (ICC):​

• ICC Arbitration Awards: The ICC provides a private arbitration mechanism to resolve disputes, particularly between private parties or a private party and a state. Its awards are also binding.
• Enforcement under the New York Convention: If a country fails to comply with an ICC award, the winning party can seek enforcement in any country that is a signatory to the New York Convention (1958). This treaty obligates signatory countries to recognize and enforce foreign arbitral awards.
• Legal and Financial Costs: Non-compliance could lead to prolonged legal battles, increasing costs and potentially leading to interest accruals on unpaid amounts.
• Reputational Damage: Just like with ICSID, a country's or company's refusal to honor an ICC award can significantly tarnish its reputation, affecting future business and investment opportunities.

3. Wider Consequences:​

• Chilling Effect on Investment: Both ICSID and ICC decisions are fundamental to maintaining a stable international investment environment. Non-compliance can deter potential investors who seek assurance of fair and enforceable dispute resolution mechanisms.
• Loss of Legal Protections and Treaty Benefits: For countries that repeatedly disregard arbitration awards, there might be a reconsideration of existing bilateral investment treaties (BITs) or multilateral agreements that provide legal protections and benefits.

Definitely a possibility but that requires the US to be collaborating with us to withhold those funds on our behalf. As much as they state they want to defend against China, I feel like they'd only do it if it suited the US to do so; i.e. with their own partnership stake in the project. They do seem to be increasing activity in Africa, so there could be something there, but whether they look to steal (purchase) the whole thing themselves seems more likely than just acting as a minor partner or helping us for the sake of it.

A side point too is China's ongoing attempts to dethrone the US dollar. I mean they've been supposedly attempting that for years though, so it's not too much of a side point. And a bit of a moot point if DRC don't want their local currency, with the alternative likely to be the Euro as they'd have no use for Yuan.

 

[Pokok]

Cumquat,

Well I am looking forward to rulings from both the ICSID and ICC - as much as we know from experience how corrupt the DRC is, this corruption will be formally recognized by two international bodies. I suspect these rulings will prevent many international corporations from dealing with the DRC - this is something that the DRC Government does not want.

Keeping in mind that the DRC are compelled to follow any rulings (ICSID & ICC) and if they don't then they run the risk of having their assets seized internationally - landing a DRC jet in France and having it impounded is a real possibility and we have seen that already happen with another government.

This whole process has been painfully drawn out for all of us, however I am looking forward to the rulings and seeing the DRC get a walloping. In addition, the Americans are looking at major investments and they would be heaping heaps of pressure on the DRC to sort their shit out.

The Chinese don't like international rulings against them either - look what they did to Australia and before any ruling by the WTO the Aussie Government suspended WTO action just prior to any outcome.

It has also been previously reported that the DRC have gold bullion in a Vault in New York and there are no doubt many assets that are outside of the DRC that could potentially be seized.

There could potentially be International Arrest Warrants for X Government Officials - thats not something they want either.

Lets simply wait for the ICSID and ICC rulings and me personally I dont see things are at a loss - its just simply dragging on due to the actions of certain nefarious individuals.

Compensation needs to take into consideration;

1. Current and future value of the mine in its entirety
2. The largest known lithium deposit in the world at a high quality
3. The capacity to influence the Lithium Spot Market
4. Unnecessary costs incurred by AVZ/Dathcom due to corruption and failure to abide by their own laws
5. Pain, suffering and loss of income streams and other investments by shareholders
6. Interest
7. etc

Regards,

SilentOne - do your own research

SilentOne , you stand firm in your belief something will happen I am of the opposite opinion , nothing will happen with any government Oz US etc as it would already being spoken about but no not a word , never on tv , never in the papers , and as far as the ICSID , ICC rulings well that is a Friday joke ,I will be well into my 70ties before I even get the disappointing news ha you just got nothing , waiting only because it's out of our hands.
That is my research

 

[TLH]

Yeah but when? I've been pretty good at waiting waiting waiting but the frustrations are definitely starting to set in with the continuous articles coming out around critical materials, the DRC, and Manono with seemingly no mention of AVZ. We just don't seem to exist to anyone and there feels like nothing but silence from ICC and ICSID regardless of the fact that they've ruled for stop-work orders whilst determining a decision. Another month or two until we see the next opaque update on one of their sites? Likely to just be another submission or extension

The concern is the ICC and ICSID likely know that any judgement in AVZ's favor will be hard to enforce so will make them appear weak and useless..... I really hope I'm wrong and there will be massive ramifications that the DRC can't ignore if they don't comply. Frustrating that AVZ seemingly are going this alone without any Aussie gov support. I would be happy to give a large portion of AVZ ownership to an Aussie mining heavy weight so they can ride this through with us.

 

[Rediah]

Definitely a possibility but that requires the US to be collaborating with us to withhold those funds on our behalf. As much as they state they want to defend against China, I feel like they'd only do it if it suited the US to do so; i.e. with their own partnership stake in the project. They do seem to be increasing activity in Africa, so there could be something there, but whether they look to steal (purchase) the whole thing themselves seems more likely than just acting as a minor partner or helping us for the sake of it.

A side point too is China's ongoing attempts to dethrone the US dollar. I mean they've been supposedly attempting that for years though, so it's not too much of a side point. And a bit of a moot point if DRC don't want their local currency, with the alternative likely to be the Euro as they'd have no use for Yuan.

The U.S. bank didn't release my funds until I provided full details of what I was purchasing, along with all the information about the supplier. Suncorp Bank informed me that they had no control or influence over the U.S. bank to retrieve the funds or expedite the process.

Similarly, when Interpol issues a Red Notice, no country accepts the person on that list. I hope the ICC has similar authority to seize funds during transfers to enforce compliance with its rulings.

But hoping against all hopes, that we find a solution soon..

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

x.com

 

[Flight996]

Re: AVZ announcement 5 August 2024

As we are all very aware, Manono Lithium, a Cominiere-Zijin JV is trespassing and building on the northern part of AVZ's (PR13359) tenement. It is putting in place all the infrastructure and supporting facilities needed for a mine. Of that there is no dispute.

AVZ's announcement of 5 August refers to this issue, saying that...the Company has referred this issue back to the ICC tribunal, and is seeking immediate payment of the daily fines imposed by the emergency arbitrator on Cominière for breaches its emergency orders.

Accrued penalties against Cominiere to date amount to nearly AU$120 million.

I am hoping that the ICC moves quickly on this and calls Cominiere's bluff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5934d2ae6b8f5beeb5ba23f3/t/66b0937eae359976b9defbe1/1722848158511/20240805+Announcement+-+DRC+Government+Discussions+and+Further+Comini%C3%A8re+Breaches.pdf

Cheers
F

 

[cruiser51]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, especially those with more experience in international trade, I'm considering the following based on a recent experience:

I recently purchased some parts for my business from an international supplier who requested payment in USD rather than their local currency. I made the transfer through Suncorp Bank. The money was debited from my account, but it didn't reach the supplier for a month. When I contacted Suncorp to find out where the money was, they explained that since the payment was made in USD, it was routed through a U.S. bank as an intermediary before it could be sent to the supplier's bank.

Given this, and considering the current situation with the DRC defying the rulings of the ICC and the ICSID, a point comes to mind. Since the DRC has sold themselves to China and prefers payments in USD instead of their local currency, which has little value, large transactions will be routed through U.S. banks.

Which makes me wonder, under the New York Convention (1958) that mandates the enforcement of international arbitration awards, there could be a scenario where funds transferred in USD through U.S. banks could be held or intercepted until the DRC complies with ICC and ICSID rulings??




When a country does not follow the decisions or awards of the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) and the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC), several consequences can arise:

1. International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID):​

• ICSID Arbitration Awards: When a country (usually a host state) does not comply with an ICSID arbitration award, it can lead to significant diplomatic and financial consequences.
• Enforcement and Recognition: Under the ICSID Convention, awards are binding and must be enforced as if they were a final judgment of a court in that country. A refusal to enforce could lead to loss of credibility and potential sanctions.
• Reputation and Credit Rating: Non-compliance may negatively affect the country’s international reputation, discourage foreign investment, and potentially harm its credit rating.
• Seizure of Assets: The winning party can pursue enforcement in jurisdictions where the non-compliant state has assets. This can lead to the seizure of state-owned assets abroad.
• Political and Economic Isolation: Continued non-compliance may result in strained diplomatic relations and can lead to economic isolation or loss of access to international financial markets.

2. International Chamber of Commerce (ICC):​

• ICC Arbitration Awards: The ICC provides a private arbitration mechanism to resolve disputes, particularly between private parties or a private party and a state. Its awards are also binding.
• Enforcement under the New York Convention: If a country fails to comply with an ICC award, the winning party can seek enforcement in any country that is a signatory to the New York Convention (1958). This treaty obligates signatory countries to recognize and enforce foreign arbitral awards.
• Legal and Financial Costs: Non-compliance could lead to prolonged legal battles, increasing costs and potentially leading to interest accruals on unpaid amounts.
• Reputational Damage: Just like with ICSID, a country's or company's refusal to honor an ICC award can significantly tarnish its reputation, affecting future business and investment opportunities.

3. Wider Consequences:​

• Chilling Effect on Investment: Both ICSID and ICC decisions are fundamental to maintaining a stable international investment environment. Non-compliance can deter potential investors who seek assurance of fair and enforceable dispute resolution mechanisms.
• Loss of Legal Protections and Treaty Benefits: For countries that repeatedly disregard arbitration awards, there might be a reconsideration of existing bilateral investment treaties (BITs) or multilateral agreements that provide legal protections and benefits.

Exclusive: US seizes Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro’s airplane in the Dominican Republic​

By Priscilla Alvarez and Abel Alvarado, CNN
6 minute read
Updated 10:38 PM EDT, Mon September 2, 2024



Shit does happen.

 

[Dazmac66]

Exclusive: US seizes Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro’s airplane in the Dominican Republic​

By Priscilla Alvarez and Abel Alvarado, CNN
6 minute read
Updated 10:38 PM EDT, Mon September 2, 2024



Shit does happen.

That is the result of an ICC case in 1943!!

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Carlos Danger]

mate I’m at the same stage..

What the fuck is happening and when the fuck is it going to happen…

Cheers to all the guys that send the research but what the FUCK….

Wait wait wait…. Always feels like we are waiting & getting over the waiting…

GLTAH FFS

Yeah not looking great for avz at the moment, they are doubling down on China and do not wish to follow the rule of law. Nigel has a lot to answer for and I wish I disregarded most of what he said around the beginning of suspension

Cumquat,

Well I am looking forward to rulings from both the ICSID and ICC - as much as we know from experience how corrupt the DRC is, this corruption will be formally recognized by two international bodies. I suspect these rulings will prevent many international corporations from dealing with the DRC - this is something that the DRC Government does not want.

Keeping in mind that the DRC are compelled to follow any rulings (ICSID & ICC) and if they don't then they run the risk of having their assets seized internationally - landing a DRC jet in France and having it impounded is a real possibility and we have seen that already happen with another government.

This whole process has been painfully drawn out for all of us, however I am looking forward to the rulings and seeing the DRC get a walloping. In addition, the Americans are looking at major investments and they would be heaping heaps of pressure on the DRC to sort their shit out.

The Chinese don't like international rulings against them either - look what they did to Australia and before any ruling by the WTO the Aussie Government suspended WTO action just prior to any outcome.

It has also been previously reported that the DRC have gold bullion in a Vault in New York and there are no doubt many assets that are outside of the DRC that could potentially be seized.

There could potentially be International Arrest Warrants for X Government Officials - thats not something they want either.

Lets simply wait for the ICSID and ICC rulings and me personally I dont see things are at a loss - its just simply dragging on due to the actions of certain nefarious individuals.

Compensation needs to take into consideration;

1. Current and future value of the mine in its entirety
2. The largest known lithium deposit in the world at a high quality
3. The capacity to influence the Lithium Spot Market
4. Unnecessary costs incurred by AVZ/Dathcom due to corruption and failure to abide by their own laws
5. Pain, suffering and loss of income streams and other investments by shareholders
6. Interest
7. etc

Regards,

SilentOne - do your own research

Yeah but when? I've been pretty good at waiting waiting waiting but the frustrations are definitely starting to set in with the continuous articles coming out around critical materials, the DRC, and Manono with seemingly no mention of AVZ. We just don't seem to exist to anyone and there feels like nothing but silence from ICC and ICSID regardless of the fact that they've ruled for stop-work orders whilst determining a decision. Another month or two until we see the next opaque update on one of their sites? Likely to just be another submission or extension

SilentOne , you stand firm in your belief something will happen I am of the opposite opinion , nothing will happen with any government Oz US etc as it would already being spoken about but no not a word , never on tv , never in the papers , and as far as the ICSID , ICC rulings well that is a Friday joke ,I will be well into my 70ties before I even get the disappointing news ha you just got nothing , waiting only because it's out of our hands.
That is my research

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

 

[Bin59]

Re: AVZ announcement 5 August 2024

As we are all very aware, Manono Lithium a Cominiere-Zijin JV is trespassing and has boots on the ground on the northern part of AVZ's (PR13359) tenement. It is putting in place all the infrastructure and supporting facilities needed to build a mine. Of that there is no dispute.

AVZ's announcement of 5 August refers to this issue, saying that...the Company has referred this issue back to the ICC tribunal, and is seeking immediate payment of the daily fines imposed by the emergency arbitrator on Cominière for breaches its emergency orders.

Accrued penalties against Cominiere to date amount to nearly AU$120 million.

I am hoping that the ICC moves quickly on this and calls Cominiere's bluff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5934d2ae6b8f5beeb5ba23f3/t/66b0937eae359976b9defbe1/1722848158511/20240805+Announcement+-+DRC+Government+Discussions+and+Further+Comini%C3%A8re+Breaches.pdf

Cheers
F

“I am hoping that the ICC moves quickly on this and calls Cominiere's bluff”

It has almost been almost a month since the request was made and still no action by the ICC tribunal .

Having seen the recent tenders advertised by Manono Lithium, I’m not sure that Cominiere / Manono Lithium are bluffing, I just think it’s a blatant disregard for the authorities.

Also, CAMI should be called out in the media for their non-compliance with the ICC Interim orders. I recall that during the changeover ceremony from JFMK to Paul Mabolia Yenga, Crispin Mbindule stated that the outgoing members of the team will continue to collaborate with CAMI , maybe therein lays our problem at CAMI - it’s still influenced by JFMK so we’re not likely to see the reversal of the illegal changes to the tenements anytime soon imo.

x.com

x.com

@CadastreMinier

Ceremony of the Passing of Power to the Mining Cadastre: A New Leadership Team Committed and determined to meet the challenges of the DRC mining sector

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023, the premises of the General Directorate of the Mining Cadastre was the scene of an emblematic ceremony: the transfer of power between the old and the new management team. This major event took place in the presence of the representative of the Minister of Mines, Mr. Jacques RAMAZANI LUTUBA, Secretary General of Mines, outgoing and incoming members of the management team, as well as executives and agents of the Mining Cadastre.

The atmosphere of this historic event was full of solemnity, promises and continuity. The national anthem sounded, signifying the unity and dedication to our country and its rich mining contribution. This solemn melody paved the way for an orderly and symbolic transition.

The Chairman of the Board of Directors, the Honourable Crispin MBINDULE, gave an inspiring speech, highlighting the firm commitment of the Mining Cadastre to the nation and its development. He expressed his gratitude to His Excellency Mr. Félix-Antoine TSHISEKEDI TSHILOMBO, President of the Republic, as well as Prime Minister SAMA LUKONDE, for their trust in the new management team.

Mr. MBINDULE's speech also highlighted the importance of continued collaboration with outgoing members of the team. This openness to cooperation illustrates our determination to build on past successes to shape an even more promising future.

The culminating moment of the ceremony was the formal exchange between the former Director General, Mr. Jean-Félix MUPANDE KAPWA, and the new Director General, Mr. Paul MABOLIA YENGA. This gesture sealed the transition, marking the beginning of a new era of management and innovation within the Mining Cadastre.

In conclusion, this transfer of power ceremony marks the beginning of a new and exciting phase for the Mining Cadastre. We remain committed to serving our nation with integrity, transparency and excellence. The future is bright, and our dedication to the responsible management of our mineral resources is stronger than ever.

@MinMinesRDC

#CadastreMinier

 

[robface]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

ICSID Zijin arent listed as respondents so how would they be liable for claims?.

 

[Pokok]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Carlos , you have just confirmed my thinking , if lucky we get something but I doubt it and as I said many years away before any decision and then many years to be enforced . I hope they all burn in hell

 

[Cumquat Cap]

ICC delayed as most lawyers take a month or two off for euro summer I’d imagine - should be back soon

 

[Retrobyte]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

 

[Rediah]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

 

[PutUsernameHere]

At this point you’re best assuming nothing is going to happen for a long time and anything sooner than that is a miracle. It’s looking more and more likely that we will need to go the distance at the ICSID as negotiations appear to be at a stalemate and the DRC government seem pretty keen on letting Zijin have at least the north. While we all have our opinions on whether management could have been less exuberant in their messaging at different points on this journey they were somewhat clear that while they favour a negotiated outcome, they will see the legal path out to the bitter end if necessary.

Worth remembering if you voted for the current bod at the last agm then you voted for this strategy

As I’ve stated numerous times I am extremely confident that we will win all legal challenges (with the possible exception of the north dispute but that won’t impact our damages claim substantively anyway if so imo). China wouldn’t be throwing the kitchen sink at trying to remove Nigel if we didn’t have a solid chance of success. It’s just going to take time and it’s good that people have a better understanding of that now.

Here are the expected timelines for our ICC / ICSID cases as far as I’m aware:

ICC Dathomir - Originally a decision was reasonably expected this month but there have been some stalling tactics. Dathomir were due to file their rejoinder in the (SPA 2020) proceedings on the 6th of August. AVZ is due to file its statement of claim in the (SPA 2019) proceedings on the 27th of September. We should get an outcome for these cases by the end of this year imo

ICC Zijin – After losing the jurisdictional challenge Jin Cheng has applied to the Paris Court of Appeals for an annulment of the decision. They are due to file the Appellant's brief on the 13th of September.

ICC Cominiere – We haven’t been given an estimated timeline but if it’s similar to the Zijin and Dathomir cases a judgement can reasonably be expected earlyish next year imo

ICC Zijin and Cominiere – Hasn’t been much said about this one lately that I can find and it really shouldn’t have legal grounds to continue but a decision can be expected middish next year imo

ICSID DRC Government - First hearing is expected in June 2025 according to 9card. Although that was posted a long time ago now so things may have changed. But assuming that is still correct we will most likely see a decision sometime in 2026 imo. Then there will be more appeals and no doubt further shenanigans from our adversaries along the way. If successful we will then need to enforce the penalty which given the size of the potential payout vs recoverability of the funds will probs take a while to say the least. Although management’s repeated references to evidence of conspiracy to misappropriate the Manono Project is aimed at making that task somewhat easier by including Zijin in the claims imo

Thanks for providing a summary update with potential dates for expected news, appreciate your response

 

[cruiser51]

That is the result of an ICC case in 1943!!

If our case gets the same treatment, you could well have to wait for about 80 years.
I hope you are young enough, otherwise your grandkids will be over the moon.

 

[cruiser51]

What's a 20yo A320 worth at Cash Converters these days?

Depends if it is well maintained.