AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
What people and countries forget that if you sign up / have membership to International Bodies such as the ICC & ICSID its all in - you cant simply ignore ruling due to the fact that it doesn't suit you - if you want to deal with the international community then you simply need to be an adult about things and put your big boy pants on.
The DRC want to have their cake and eat it - they are happy to take/embezzle international investment/money but sook when action is taken against them and claim to be the victim when their hands get caught in the cookie jar.
The corruption is called out for what it is - inaction is an endorsement of the corruption that is currently occurring. This whole spectacle clearly sits at Felix's feet.
I am so fed up with the DRC and their shenanigans that talking to them seems to be a waste of time - I am very much looking forward to them being formally reprimanded by the ICC & ICSID and called out for their corrupt behavior. Financial penalties/compensation need to be awarded to AVZ.
You dont open your house to thieves and complain about being robbed and thats what Felix has done with his government.
There is no doubt that there are many honorable people in the DRC we just need to support them where we can.
Regards,
SilentOne
Winenut
Go AVZ!
Have done it on a number of occassions in the past.....never received any acknowledgement from the AFR
Spikerama
Regular
You're better off making a complaint to the Australian Press Council; as they handle complaints over standards and breaches of legitimacy, fairness and accuracy.
Kind of like an ombudsman for the press.
Samus
Top 20
On exactly the same page here, but it's a sham how the arbitration processes take so long with a time sensitive issue such as this.
Already the Chinese parasites have moved in to the point where it's impossible to extract them.
All we can do is wait now not only for the various rulings but for the inevitable multiple appeals the China backed Congolese criminals will lodge. Years of shit ahead.
I hope we can push things like emergency orders to the limits and rack up a good amount of fines which are payable to force the DRC's hand in order for them to approach us before time with with some sort of fair settlement resolution.
I'm my view management should cut off all negotiations and push ICC/ICSID hard until they are forced to come to the party of their own volition and until such time ignore their bullshit, lies and stalling tactics except to counter the disinformation they'll spew.
The enforcability is a concern though, not to mention the additional years and years that this would take.
Even after a US court in 2021 confirmed the US600m DigOil ICC judgement from 2018, opening the possibility of DRC assets in the states being seized, where are we now?
Answer: DigOil hasn't received a cent yet, nearly 7 years on. Yet the international community is still dealing with DRC anyway, big boy pants or not.
In a judgement that could possibly be five times the size of that one, or even more, what's the likelihood of a speedy resolution and an actual delivery of those funds?
How many here will have passed on by the time we get funds, if ever?
Sure the ICSID might have some better leverage than the ICC towards enforcement, and the World Bank connection is useful given the DRC's needs, but let's not kid ourselves that this would be a timely or smooth process.
I guess we could leverage a huge judgement payment into some kind of a deal, but again this would be years and years away from fruition if having to await a conclusion of all our arbitration cases.
Roon,
I tend to be a Glass Half Full type of guy - ICSID outcomes for both Tanzania and Gambia fills me with hope.
I dont believe it will drag on for years.
Regards,
SilentOne
Samus
Top 20
See what's the alternative though Roon?
It seems that they need to be forced to take a position sooner than later.
After something like two and a half years of "negotiations" the ministry of Mines are officially saying they aren't undertaking any negotiations.
So negotiations until they come to the table voluntarily seem like a total waste of time which plays into Chinese hands.
AVZ has stated time and again that we're willing to negotiate.
We need a way to pressure them hard in the right direction.
oxxa23
Regular
if ever i'm having too good a day i just come on here and read your posts roon...
Totally agree, we obviously need to push forward with ICSID and ICC. That's the only pressure point we've got.
My only dispute is with those who say we shouldn't compromise whatsoever and should await the eventual ICC/ICSID rulings. As if that's a simple pathway invariably leading to a positive outcome in some reasonable time frame.
I say keep pressing our arbitration cases with full vigor, up to the point where some deal might be possible that gets us a PE. Then we try to leverage that into a half-decent sale price to a major thats interested in a world class lithium deposit and that has the know-how and willingness to operate in this challenging jurisdiction. Might be a short list, but the upside is so high that I imagine we could find a suitor. If that takes some trade-offs or concessions then so be it. And to have any hope of getting there before I go grey(er), we need our licensing/ownership issues to be settled one way or the other.
Otherwise sure, if nobody comes to the table, then we go full ICSID and sit in for the long haul.
Winenut
Go AVZ!
Seems to be the concensus they are legit and there is both a French and an English version
Fucking completely contradicts this official statement below made a few weeks ago by the same organisation where they advise Felix they are having amicable discussions with AVZ and the case is being reviewed by experts
Fuck me..... you couldn't make this shit up
Rio's endeavour in Serbia is not exactly smooth sailing.
Serbia: Thousands join Belgrade protest against lithium mining
Activists warn the mine could lead to the contamination of land and water and damage public health.
I don't know if they are mesmerising about Manono, or giving Manono a wide berth as being a poison pill.
They did visit the DRC MoM recently, I am curious what that was all about.
Yeh but they also said this.Seems to be the concensus they are legit and there is both a French and an English version
Fucking completely contradicts this official statement below made a few weeks ago by the same organisation where they advise Felix they are having amicable discussions with AVZ and the case is being reviewed by experts
View attachment 67910
Fuck me..... you couldn't make this shit up
"An expert was recruited to assess the risks that the country may incur following this dispute if it were to be resolved through legal channels."
" The defence team has recommended the continuation of the arbitration ".
In other words the asset is worth more than the penalty and Chinese snacks are delicious .
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oxxa23
Regular
I reckon i'm having dejavu.... swear i've read this 1312 times over the last two years....Seems to be the concensus they are legit and there is both a French and an English version
Fucking completely contradicts this official statement below made a few weeks ago by the same organisation where they advise Felix they are having amicable discussions with AVZ and the case is being reviewed by experts
View attachment 67910
Fuck me..... you couldn't make this shit up
"Fuck me..... you couldn't make this shit up"
Mr_Tones83
Regular
I didn't exactly read that way, but could be wrong... they said the defence team recommended continuing arbitration, then they said they've recruited an expert, so it doesn't sound like this 'expert' has done their work yet
Can only imagine where this 'expert' might hail from.......
Yes I did edit a few words . However that was my take on it .
There were some positive take aways from AVZ's report . Enough to perhaps promote a potential successful CR . Something the Chinese/DRC became aware of and are now trying to foil. IMO
If you are a lawyer, wouldn't you recommend to continue the fight?
Isn't that the same as a your car mechanic recommending don't stop with your car maintenance?
At the end, if the lawyer doesn't win he will say 'Well mate we did our best', Ka fucking ching.
It is not in the best interest of a lawyer, if you kiss and make up.
If everybody did, the legal fraternity would have to take up a newspaper round, or pull beer in the pub, they are great in the talking shit department.
Mr_Tones83
Regular
Yep, I'm not disputing that the lawyers would say to keep going. Aside from the bribe-takers, they're the main winners in this saga so far.
What I meant to highlight was the fact that the DRC MoM likely hasn't had their recruited 'expert' complete the assessment as to the potential risks of the legal cases running their course as yet. If that were to be done by a competent person then it could put extra pressure on them to come to the table and get a deal done quicker.
More than likely it'll be a Zijin shill used to keep kicking the can down the road though.
Don't forget that the current vice MoM, Godard Motemona Gibolum
Who knows maybe the left hand is not talking with the right hand, or he is pissed off that he is not MoM.
Creating a bit of animosity to undermine the current MoM, could well be a game of the Chinese.
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