AVZ Discussion 2022

[9cardomaha]

I will add, it has been a shame that Z was able to get their legal counsel onto the ICSID team for the DRC....

The original team didn't even have a cohesive argument and was using dogshit DRC local media reports as submissions.... Fasken's inclusion has beefed up the detractor team, but the arguments remain the same weak piss shit that they submitted to the ICC (where they;ve just recieved a loss in AVZ v Cominiere).

Not hyping it up, but odds are in our favour, albiet not as good as they were prior to fasken.

 

[whales]

This time last year most shaeholders were saying if we're still not trading next AGM then the bod will have lost my support

Now they're saying the exact same

Same thing will happen next year imo

Last weeks vote was a choice of continuing the status quo path of arbitration or making a deal on unfavourable terms

We have to accept the outcome of this decision wherever it may lead and however long it takes. We are now all responsible for the suspension mission creep. If Felix gave any fucks about AVZ or the law this all would have been over months ago imo

Summed up well.
Hopefully Felix can use the ICC results to wash his hands and strike a deal.
Otherwise ALL trust would be lost in the DRC to the sad detriment to his people.
His voice on upholding the law will be a complete farce and Western and European investment stalled.
Maybe the love of his Rolex watches are a priority ?

 

[wombat74]

I will add, it has been a shame that Z was able to get their legal counsel onto the ICSID team for the DRC....

The original team didn't even have a cohesive argument and was using dogshit DRC local media reports as submissions.... Fasken's inclusion has beefed up the detractor team, but the arguments remain the same weak piss shit that they submitted to the ICC (where they;ve just recieved a loss in AVZ v Cominiere).

Not hyping it up, but odds are in our favour, albiet not as good as they were prior to fasken.

Are you confident we will secure the $20 mil ?

 

[Carlos Danger]

DRC just submitted their responses to these requests, saying they are 'just another tactic to stall the project'

 

[wombat74]

Summed up well.
Hopefully Felix can use the ICC results to wash his hands and strike a deal.
Otherwise ALL trust would be lost in the DRC to the sad detriment to his people.
His voice on upholding the law will be a complete farce and Western and European investment stalled.
Maybe the love of his Rolex watches are a priority ?

The DRC has over $24 Trillion dollars worth of minerals and was ranked the 4th poorest Country on planet earth in 2023. 96% of the population survive on less than $6 a day . The DRC gov clearly don't give a f--k .

 

[9cardomaha]

Are you confident we will secure the $20 mil ?

I had my doubts about Locke - they wouldn't be in my top picks for financing.... Wasn't able to find any track record of successful funding. Also wanted to let tse members know that paying for DD isn't unusual in these highly complex cases which involve multiple parties and high-risk sovereignties, so that didn't set off any red flags for me.

I think passing the first round of DD with them is promising, if we nab the win at ICSID before christmas, should increase the chances of funding significantly.

Any litigation funder is, in the end, not on the side of justice, but to make bank.... i'd say 85%+ for confirmed funding if ICSID remains impervious to snacks and brown baggies.

 

[wombat74]

I had my doubts about Locke - they wouldn't be in my top picks for financing.... Wasn't able to find any track record of successful funding. Also wanted to let tse members know that paying for DD isn't unusual in these highly complex cases which involve multiple parties and high-risk sovereignties, so that didn't set off any red flags for me.

I think passing the first round of DD with them is promising, if we nab the win at ICSID before christmas, should increase the chances of funding significantly.

Any litigation funder is, in the end, not on the side of justice, but to make bank.... i'd say 85%+ for confirmed funding if ICSID remains impervious to snacks and brown baggies.

Thanks for the response . I guess they (or anyone ) are only going to commit if they are 100% certain they will get a return $$.

 

[9cardomaha]

Thanks for the response . I guess they (or anyone ) are only going to commit if they are 100% certain they will get a return $$.

If Pei wasn't a back stabbing cunt fuck... I originally thought CATH could bank roll us through this, which would have been a testament to the support for us.

But now there's just another link in the human-CCPentipede

 

[wombat74]

If Pei wasn't a back stabbing cunt fuck... I originally thought CATH could bank roll us through this, which would have been a testament to the support for us.

But now there's just another link in the human-CCPentipede

Pei probably got a tap on the shoulder from Beijing . Xi Jinping openly said China must secure major lithium deposits world wide .

 

[Earlyspeed]

Getting back to business.

The updates on ICSID last week were to set a timetable for proceedings, and then also set the emergency requests of AVZ against the DRC. Procedural order 1 is the timeline:

1. November 23, 2023: DRC submits a response to the request for provisional measures.
2. November 30, 2023: AVZ file a reply to the request for provisional measures.
3. December 11, 2023: hearing on the request for provisional measures involving all parties.

As an emergency request, and having Christmas, this should be ruled on before 24th December. I believe we have a strong case, given our win at the ICC and the ICSID chairman even mentioning the ICC win as a basis for the final 'measures' which will be heard on 11th December.

AVZ's emergency requests

• Suspend PR 13359 and PR 15775.
• Halt all mining activities by entities other than Dathcom within the mentioned permits.
• Restrain the DRC from taking any administrative actions prejudicial to the Claimants' interests.

DRC just submitted their responses to these requests, saying they are 'just another tactic to stall the project' - herp derp.

DLA will respond by the 30th and make additional claims, counter arguements against DRC etc. The arbitrator will then issue final requests to be heard o the 5th December. I don't think they will increase or decrease, the three are likely to just remain as is. TICSID tribunal will also determine the fine or penalty for breaking the injunction before the hearing.

I believe that once we have the measures in place, we can start to discuss, also because DLA will be looking to submit damages claims after securing the injunctions. Which will provide more leverage on coming to a negotiated settlement.

For the actual timeline if we need to go through with it all, it is below:

1. March 1, 2024: Claimants submit a Memorandum.
2. July 26, 2024: Production of documents and objections deadline for both parties.
3. August 9, 2024: Claimants and Respondent provide responses to objections to document production.
4. September 27, 2024: Tribunal issues a decision on document production.
5. May 5, 2025: Identification of witnesses and experts for cross-examination by both Claimants and Respondent.
6. June 2-4, 2025 (June 5 reserved): Scheduled hearing involving all parties.

9Card, in these types of proceedings can witnesses for cross examination include Ministers of the relevant country? It is possible that MoM and MoP are called upon to be cross examined in such a proceeding? Your postings on the behind the scenes legal machinations are much appreciated

 

[JNRB]

Pei probably got a tap on the shoulder from Beijing . Xi Jinping openly said China must secure major lithium deposits world wide .

If that's their goal that's fine. We've already laid out a pathway to that for them.

$12

 

[9cardomaha]

9Card, in these types of proceedings can witnesses for cross examination include Ministers of the relevant country? It is possible that MoM and MoP are called upon to be cross examined in such a proceeding? Your postings on the behind the scenes legal machinations are much appreciated

ICSID doesnt have power to issue subpoenas at the request of the parties, even though under article 43, they should be all fair game because they are 'party to the proceedings, ie part of the DRC government'.

There have been instances, (non-drc examples), where the claimants have received a subpoena in their home country, and ICSID then enforces that, to have the witness attend. But local DRC courts... HMMMMMM.

ICSID can only enforce the production of documents or other evidence as requested between AVZ and DRC. So we could ask them for email correspondence or WeChat logs. But can't ask for X minister and Y minister to appear (we could invite them but that probably won't happen, and Fasken won't open that can of worms).

 

[Samus]

June 2-4, 2025 (June 5 reserved): Scheduled hearing involving all parties.

That's depressing.

 

[9cardomaha]

Here’s my the mango tree that I grew from the top half of the the original one. I presume because it needs repotting and the roots are growing underneath the pot that’s why it’s dropped half the mango’s it had growing on it

Here’s my triple grafted apple tree but also don’t think it will fully fruit until it’s in the ground. It’s got a few royal gala, delicious and granny smith’s on it

My raspberry bush

My blueberry bush (unfortunately there’s a couple of beautiful green - yellow breasted wattle birds have eaten all the blueberries

And here’s my peach and nectarine trees. I use the word tress loosely until I can eventually get them in the ground

Im the background are my blackberry bushes and lemon tree

Where‘d the post go, i was going to say, i can only ever fucking grow lemons - hardy as fuck, and it likes my piss (or that's what the internet tells me)

 

[BRICK]

That's depressing.
View attachment 50655 View attachment 50657

Well i guess ill be locked into these beautiful paper profits for ever then....

 

[Dave Evans]

Where‘d the post go, i was going to say, i can only ever fucking grow lemons - hardy as fuck, and it likes my piss (or that's what the internet tells me)

Not being a member I figured out how I could send Sam some photos on our private thread, but as soon as I deleted them from this thread they disappeared on our private thread.

TSE is so fucked, if MB didn’t privately tell zeebot he was going to start deleting all the information he put on other threads, the troll would probably still be here

Anyway I’m fucken out of here

 

[Winenut]

Yaseen hasn't been seen for a while....

 

[Doc]

Yaseen hasn't been seen for a while....

Please don’t say his name 3 times, I’ve seen the movie…..

 

[Xerof]

Yaseen hasn't been seen for a while....

Oh really?