Cumquat Cap
Regular
Why would they do that Wombat? they want DRC to be shunned by the western world forevermore?
AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Can you elaborate to what end would this be their 4D chess plan?
I would say the suggestion is that AVZ is doing the legwork in terms of countering Chinese corruption. In that sense, we are the bad guys. This allows DRC to maintain amicable relationships in terms of the very large construction and development contracts in place with Chinese firms in DRC.
Who knows, there is likely enough factors to make your head spin. I would say the sad fact of the matter is the DRC is not even remotely set up to handle its mineral wealth.
As stated before, I am very happy that Zijin are so openly involved in this situation. They have tangible assets that can and will be accessed by ICC/ICSID. China is a member state of ICSID after all. Whilst people can argue that the DRC will not pay us what is owed, I don't think the same argument can be applied to Zijin. If they take ownership of Manono then we will be all over them with litigation with full backing of ICSID.
And dont they have Asset in Australia?
Didn't someone say on here it wasn't even a face to face, explains why there was no picture.
Yes. Norton gold fields. Don't know its value but claims: Contained gold of 11.75Moz with grade of 0.89g/t.
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Why would Felix simply not stop the ship from sinking rather than hatching some bizarre plan to let CKK be the fall guy while his vision of a battery hub in the DRC is potentially delayed in international arbitration courts?
Felix is on board with the mantra of resource nationalism. They want a bigger cut of the takings and ultimately aren't afraid to rat fuck us to get it if we won't do a deal as they see the lithium as their property. He literally promoted CKK by Presidential order after the purported termination of the Dathcom JVA and the initiation of the ICSID proceedings. This is all happening on his watch imo
If Felix really believed in AVZ running all of the pride lands he would have signed the MoU before the vote on MMGA. But instead he waited to see if a better option was available. The gringos obviously got him shook. But I think that has more to do with trying to avoid sanctions on his friends than anything else.
The ICSID is the only thing keeping us in the game which to me is a clear sign that he doesn't give a fuck about the law. The DRC mining code is crystal clear about reasons available to the state for termination of a PE. It shouldn't require outside forces to encourage him and the MoM to follow the path of reason but here we are.
From what I understand Felix wanted $13 billion from the World Bank which was knocked back. The World Bank has delayed $1 Billion which the DRC was to receive because of corruption and a lack of transparency. The Chinese are not likely going to provide that sought of funding.
I think my money is on the ICSID, ICC and by default the World Bank.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but I think the World Bank trumps SinBin.
SilentOne
Yes, I read that also.
More time wasting . Someone said previously it's an 18 month to 3year process .
9cardomaha
Regular
Getting back to business.
The updates on ICSID last week were to set a timetable for proceedings, and then also set the emergency requests of AVZ against the DRC. Procedural order 1 is the timeline:
- November 23, 2023: DRC submits a response to the request for provisional measures.
- November 30, 2023: AVZ file a reply to the request for provisional measures.
- December 11, 2023: hearing on the request for provisional measures involving all parties.
AVZ's emergency requests
- Suspend PR 13359 and PR 15775.
- Halt all mining activities by entities other than Dathcom within the mentioned permits.
- Restrain the DRC from taking any administrative actions prejudicial to the Claimants' interests.
DLA will respond by the 30th and make additional claims, counter arguements against DRC etc. The arbitrator will then issue final requests to be heard o the 5th December. I don't think they will increase or decrease, the three are likely to just remain as is. TICSID tribunal will also determine the fine or penalty for breaking the injunction before the hearing.
I believe that once we have the measures in place, we can start to discuss, also because DLA will be looking to submit damages claims after securing the injunctions. Which will provide more leverage on coming to a negotiated settlement.
For the actual timeline if we need to go through with it all, it is below:
- March 1, 2024: Claimants submit a Memorandum.
- July 26, 2024: Production of documents and objections deadline for both parties.
- August 9, 2024: Claimants and Respondent provide responses to objections to document production.
- September 27, 2024: Tribunal issues a decision on document production.
- May 5, 2025: Identification of witnesses and experts for cross-examination by both Claimants and Respondent.
- June 2-4, 2025 (June 5 reserved): Scheduled hearing involving all parties.
"Recent correspondence between AVZ and the DRC Government has been constructive and highlights the clearly positive and ongoing relationship between both parties. Importantly, and most recently, AVZ’s Managing Director, Nigel Ferguson, sat with His Excellency President Tshisekedi, to discuss these matters." AVZ 9/10/23.
Sorry I was tripped up by the , "recently Nigel sat with His Excellency President Tshisekedi to discuss matters " thingy . Misinterpreted the meaning. Wasn't aware someone had cleared up the misunderstanding . Cheers .
9cardomaha
Regular
I will add, it has been a shame that Z was able to get their legal counsel onto the ICSID team for the DRC....
The original team didn't even have a cohesive argument and was using dogshit DRC local media reports as submissions.... Fasken's inclusion has beefed up the detractor team, but the arguments remain the same weak piss shit that they submitted to the ICC (where they;ve just recieved a loss in AVZ v Cominiere).
Not hyping it up, but odds are in our favour, albiet not as good as they were prior to fasken.
The original team didn't even have a cohesive argument and was using dogshit DRC local media reports as submissions.... Fasken's inclusion has beefed up the detractor team, but the arguments remain the same weak piss shit that they submitted to the ICC (where they;ve just recieved a loss in AVZ v Cominiere).
Not hyping it up, but odds are in our favour, albiet not as good as they were prior to fasken.
Summed up well.
Hopefully Felix can use the ICC results to wash his hands and strike a deal.
Otherwise ALL trust would be lost in the DRC to the sad detriment to his people.
His voice on upholding the law will be a complete farce and Western and European investment stalled.
Maybe the love of his Rolex watches are a priority ?
Are you confident we will secure the $20 mil ?
Carlos Danger
Top 20
The DRC has over $24 Trillion dollars worth of minerals and was ranked the 4th poorest Country on planet earth in 2023. 96% of the population survive on less than $6 a day . The DRC gov clearly don't give a f--k .
9cardomaha
Regular
I had my doubts about Locke - they wouldn't be in my top picks for financing.... Wasn't able to find any track record of successful funding. Also wanted to let tse members know that paying for DD isn't unusual in these highly complex cases which involve multiple parties and high-risk sovereignties, so that didn't set off any red flags for me.
I think passing the first round of DD with them is promising, if we nab the win at ICSID before christmas, should increase the chances of funding significantly.
Any litigation funder is, in the end, not on the side of justice, but to make bank.... i'd say 85%+ for confirmed funding if ICSID remains impervious to snacks and brown baggies.
Thanks for the response . I guess they (or anyone ) are only going to commit if they are 100% certain they will get a return $$.
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