AVZ Discussion 2022

cruiser51

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How $900,000 in direct cash giving was stolen from the poorest of the poor​

Why openness about fraud — and a plan to fix it — is key to more effective philanthropy.
By Kelsey Piper Jun 8, 2023, 7:00am EDT

People wait outdoors in a crowd. The central figure stands with their hands on their head.
A displaced Congolese listens with others for their names called out, on November 24, 2012, in Mugunga, during a food distribution exercise conducted by humanitarian agencies. Tony Karumba/AFP via Getty Images
Kelsey Piper is a senior writer at Future Perfect, Vox’s effective altruism-inspired section on the world’s biggest challenges. She explores wide-ranging topics like climate change, artificial intelligence, vaccine development, and factory farms, and also writes the Future Perfect newsletter.

This story is part of a group of stories called Future Perfect

Finding the best ways to do good.
GiveDirectly is a charity that we’ve written about a lot here at Future Perfect. Their project is, on the surface, incredibly simple: send cash straight to the poorest people in the world, so they can spend it on whatever they need. The big idea is that cash has far less overhead than other forms of philanthropy, can be used for almost anything, and respects the recipients, who know better than anyone else what they need.

GiveDirectly started only a decade ago, but it’s grown into a major force in international aid. Not only has it moved hundreds of millions of dollars in cash transfers to the global poor every year, but it has also funded large-scale randomized controlled trials (RCTs) of cash transfers, growing the evidence about where they help and how they can (and can’t) change people’s lives.

This week, GiveDirectly is coming forward about another, less-discussed piece of the global aid picture: fraud and theft. In a detailed report released earlier this week, they explain how nearly a million dollars was stolen in 2022 from GiveDirectly aid recipients in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).

That’s less than 1 percent of the money GiveDirectly moved last year, but it has had an enormous impact on the intended recipients in the DRC, where more than half the population lives on less than $2.15 a day, and has prompted some major organizational policy changes to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

The report sheds some light on an issue that almost every aid organization faces — but that no one wants to talk about. The worry is that if you tell your donors about theft and fraud that occurs on your watch, your donors will give to other organizations that don’t talk openly about these issues. But they’re issues that every organization trying to transfer money or any other kind of aid at scale faces — and only by talking openly about theft can organizations design better procedures to prevent it.

“You end up in a situation where no one shares” the details of theft and fraud cases, Tyler Hall, the communications director for GiveDirectly, told me. “It’s bad for the recipient because if we’re not able to actively talk about this, how to safely deliver money in really difficult contexts, we’re not going to get better at doing this.”
So let’s dig into fraud: how it happens, how it gets caught, and whether it undermines the case for helping the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people.

One-off versus systematic aid theft​

An “ordinary” case of attempted aid fraud, Hall told me, is a one-off, small-scale incident: “Usually we’re finding somebody got manipulated by a family member or a local money agent lied about what percentage they take off the top.”

That’s a problem GiveDirectly attempts to tackle, because if recipients are exploited, then they’re not benefiting from the aid. GiveDirectly does information campaigns about how much money agents are allowed to charge in fees, warning everyone not to pay more than what is permitted. They tell recipients they do not have to share their money with community leaders or aid workers or anyone else who might claim they are owed some. They estimate some money is still lost to theft and fraud, but it’s a very small percentage of the overall money successfully moved. (GiveDirectly estimates its annual loss from fraud — even including this event — at 1 percent or less.) In some ways, this is the cost of doing philanthropy.

What the GiveDirectly team discovered in January of this year, though, was something very different from that. To understand it, you have to know a little about how GiveDirectly verifies that the money it donates makes it to where it was meant to go.

The process, GiveDirectly wrote in a blog post released this Monday, involves “separate census, registration, pre-pay audit, post-pay audit, and follow-up call” steps. Different groups of people are responsible for getting a census of the village, registering recipients for payments, auditing those registrations, checking that those recipients got money, and following up with the recipients later. That way, if there’s a thief involved at any step, it’ll be quickly caught at the next step.

In most countries, the staff members who conduct registration of recipients help those recipients get an account with an independent money agent, but due to the ongoing war in the DRC, GiveDirectly waived that step, and allowed registration of recipients directly with GiveDirectly’s enrollment team.

“We now know,” GiveDirectly’s new blog post reveals, “that while enrolling villages in South Kivu, some staff conspired to register payment SIMs to the recipients’ names (per the special exception granted), pocket those registered SIMs, and put different SIMs in recipients’ phones. ... Fraud checks are not just done by the enrollment team, but are further validated during visits from a completely separate internal audit team and follow-ups from our call-center, all of which are supported by our back office team. In this case, conspirators recruited local staff in every layer of this system in order to suppress evidence of the fraud, including complaints from families who had not received their promised funds. Further still, they conspired with third-party mobile money agents to transfer funds from these stolen SIMs.”

GiveDirectly’s system of separated teams was meant to serve as a check against theft: if anyone did attempt theft, it’d be caught immediately by the audit team. But because the conspirators had arranged to work in all of those offices, they were able to get away with the fraud for about five months, before it was caught in January 2023. About $900,000 was lost, and 1,700 families in need were stolen from. GiveDirectly has paused operations in the DRC while they adjust their procedures.

A path to fixing fraud​

Obviously, an incident like this is a tragedy on multiple levels. First, thousands of families in desperate poverty are going hungry because the money that was promised to them was stolen. (GiveDirectly is trying to ensure they eventually receive the promised funds.) Second, theft, as rare as it might be, undermines donors’ confidence. And it’s simply an extraordinary betrayal to learn that your own aid staff was signing recipients up for aid and then pocketing the money. I’m sad and angry that this happened.
I’m also deeply grateful that GiveDirectly is being so open about it. (They actually reached out to ask if I’d be willing to write about this for a larger audience.) People sometimes shoplift from stores, but no one thinks that undermines the case for having stores.

Addressing theft is a crucial priority for doing cash transfers — without good procedures, theft would certainly be more widespread — but a single instance of theft doesn’t, to my mind, change the importance of getting aid to the people who need it most. And by describing exactly how the aid was stolen, GiveDirectly has risked its own reputation to help every other nonprofit out there that might have similar vulnerabilities, and make it easier for everyone to design procedures that even organized thieves can’t beat.

Part of getting charity right is admitting when you got it wrong. It’s only with accountability and transparency that we can build systems that truly work to help the people who need it most. And so, while I’m appalled that this happened, I’m happy that we’re able to report on it. I think that’s the first step toward a world where it doesn’t keep happening, and where it’s possible to move huge sums of money in a transparent way.
 
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timb89

Regular
I don't think it matters how legal we are the ccp z and the drc government have seceded. this this asset will be developed by the ccp. As who else will front the money for development. Mmm off the top of my head no one with half a brain. I own 12 m shares and a bit and it's a complete fuck up by management in my view. Could have paid 50 m didn't, continued to waste money on drilling somone else's resources. Took a punt and fucked up. But taking a punt on 2.7 bill of other people's money. Probably not a great effort. 100 years of experience and leant sweet fuck all. This explains the whole fuck up to me sloooowwwe learners obviously. Às with some others was my relax ticket. But shit happens.

With 12m shares do you not have a direct line to anyone in management?
 

Onthefm

Regular
No I don't
 
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wombat74

Top 20
Now that we seem to have gone all in it would be nice if Nigel did a Video and gave share holders more of an insight into what is and has been going on up to this point and moving forward . It is the decent and respectful thing to do. Maybe do it in an interview format .
 
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Samus

Top 20
Management SAM has’nt been sighted or heard from since AGM…almost 7 months ago …who knows whats going on in this shit show but even a little SH communication wouldnt go astray
Well John, we're had nothing but heresay which usually turns out to be wrong or remains unsubstantiated to this day.
It's obvious they're trying to do something in the background but the result on paper has been nothing but a web of complicated court cases which will presumably take years to collectively settle.
Even for the first of those arbitrations to begin we've been waiting 12+ months.
Just keeping track of the above has become a complicated and stressful affair with zero guidance from management in what should have ideally been a simple case of having the mining licence issued and to begin construction anywhere up to two years ago.
In the meantime more and more major projects come online as the faith and trust in the DRC's ability to progress Manono diminishes.
In an ideal scenario we could have first shipment going to market around this time.
Reality is we're still years away at best, if ever.
I'm finding this to be a less and less optomistic position and feeling less and less enthusiastic to remain invested regardless of the outcome from this point.
I'm sorry if this ruffles a few feathers but I think that is the sad reality for some shareholders, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
Managements silence smacks of self preservation and hopelessness as much as anything else.
 
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timb89

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No I don't

I find that very hard to believe. Considering you claim to have almost 0.5% of allocated shares. 12m is by far the most I've heard of anyone having.
 
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RHyNO

Regular
Farken.......12m shares......:oops::oops:

That's some serious coin, I suspect there are plenty of others like you that have similar amounts here too.....:unsure:

Fuck zijin / cominiere / cong / chyna !!!!!!

Greedy farken entitled scum who think it's OK to steal common folks hard earned..:mad::mad::mad:

Hoping for a positive result for everyone concerned, at very least , Avz relist so folks can decide......stay or go.

Imo
No way to sell now. No ownership. Option to sell should have been provided on day zinjin announced. Trading halt was absurd. Now it’s criminal. BOD a pack of equally corrupt scum for halting trading because of issues they believe immaterial. “Confident of ownership”. Absolute lie. Legal ownership absolute lie. Working with DRC absolute lie. What is the legal ramifications for these ding dongs if this goes worse! I hope they taste prison for fraud.
 
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timb89

Regular
No way to sell now. No ownership. Option to sell should have been provided on day zinjin announced. Trading halt was absurd. Now it’s criminal. BOD a pack of equally corrupt scum for halting trading because of issues they believe immaterial. “Confident of ownership”. Absolute lie. Legal ownership absolute lie. Working with DRC absolute lie. What is the legal ramifications for these ding dongs if this goes worse! I hope they taste prison for fraud.

You need to relax. Saying BOD are as corrupt as those literally bribing govt officials is nuts. Lies are not the same as evolving information. You have no proof that they knew one thing and said another. There is always uncertainty.
 
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Charbella

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obe wan

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I find that very hard to believe. Considering you claim to have almost 0.5% of allocated shares. 12m is by far the most I've heard of anyone having.
There are a fair few people in here (mostly observers) ranging in that 7-12-15m shares held and even a couple of larger ones again and I know that the bulk don't have a direct line to management.
 
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timb89

Regular
There are a fair few people in here (mostly observers) ranging in that 7-12-15m shares held and even a couple of larger ones again and I know that the bulk don't have a direct line to management.

I again find it very hard to beleive that those who own that much couldn't get on the phone to someone from management when they want.
 
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Charbella

Regular
Don’t let the trolls here claiming to be long term holders influence your thinking!
Anyone requesting for management to open up trading at this moment of time is a shorter. We are only 2 weeks away from our first ICC case. Ask yourself maybe they realised they are doomed? If resolved, they are doomed. If not resolved, years of interest accumulating. There is no win for them at all unless we open now (which ain’t going to happen) but we can still walk away with $$$.
Hopefully that explains why they are going nuts.
 

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timb89

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I again find it very hard to beleive that those who own that much couldn't get on the phone to someone from management when they want.

Failing that, a fair few (so maybe 5 to 10) holders in the 10mil range would own 2.5% to 5%, would surely be able to approach management with some questions.

Why don't we build that database?
 
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timb89

Regular
Don’t let the trolls here claiming to be long term holders influence your thinking!
Anyone requesting for management to open up trading at this moment of time is a shorter. We are only 2 weeks away from our first ICC case. Ask yourself maybe they realised they are doomed? If resolved, they are doomed. If not resolved, years of interest accumulating. There is no win for them at all unless we open now (which ain’t going to happen) but we can still walk away with $$$.
Hopefully that explains why they are going nuts.

Agree entirely. Anyone calling for opening now would have a short agenda.

I like the idea of seeing a Nigel interview. I don't think management can use the excuse of keeping information out of the hands of enemies any longer.

A pay cut from management would go a long way in good optics for all sides also. Hell, even if it's a pay cut to be reimbursed upon a certain solution.

This is action number 1 that needs to be taken in my view.
 
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M.Bison

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Failing that, a fair few (so maybe 5 to 10) holders in the 10mil range would own 2.5% to 5%, would surely be able to approach management with some questions.

Why don't we build that database?
Theres a difference between being able to get a hold of management and being able to get actual useful information.
 
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Xerof

Biding my Time 1971
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Dunno if this has been posted.

Mineral Wars:

April 7, 2023​








Various international powers are vying for rare minerals and metals found in Africa, especially lithium ore. Lithium ore is becoming increasingly important at the economic and strategic level for major industrialized countries including the US and China, which use lithium in both military and civilian industries. Lithium is one of the most sought-after minerals and is used for manufacturing electric cars (which require lithium-ion batteries) as well as for smartphones, tablets, laptop computers, digital cameras, and internet servers. It is integral to many emission-reduction technologies as part of the global transition towards a green economy and clean energy in order to combat climate change. There are various potential international ramifications of the scramble for lithium, as well as many repercussions for Africa.

Leading Producers


According to UN estimates, Africa holds more than 30% of global mineral reserves, including 5% of naturally-occurring lithium ore reserves. This means that African countries have the opportunity to help meet the growing global lithium demand while building their own economies. Lithium deposits are found in many African countries:

1. Zimbabwe is home to Africa’s largest lithium reserves, which are also the fifth largest lithium reserves in the world. In 2018, Zimbabwe and Namibia were among the top ten lithium producers worldwide. Zimbabwe is expected to be able to meet 20% of total global demand in the coming years. Bikita mine, Zimbabwe’s largest lithium mine, contains an estimated 11 million metric tons of lithium and is located in the Masvingo Province in the southwest of the country. Zimbabwe is also home to Arcadia mine, which contains 775,200 metric tons of lithium. Revenue from these two mines is projected to reach $1 billion annually. Arcadia’s reserves are estimated around 4-5 million metric tons, which is equivalent to 400,000 tons of production per year, and will also create around 1000 temporary jobs. Meanwhile, the Zulu mine contains 213,195 metric tons of lithium and the Kamativi mine contains 154,600 metric tons, according to September 2022 estimates. Still another lithium deposit under development is known as Good Days mine.

2. Namibia also contributes to African lithium production. According to statistics from the US Geological Survey, Namibia produced around 500 metric tons of lithium in 2018. The country’s top lithium mines include Bitterwasser, which contains 105,233 metric tons of lithium, Karibib, which contains 53,870 metric tons, and Uis which contains 53,280 metric tons, according to September 2022 estimates. A further lithium deposit under development is known as Brandberg.

3. The Democratic Republic of the Congo also holds major lithium reserves. Some believe that Kinshasa has the largest lithium reserves in the world and that it could become a leading global supplier of lithium. The main lithium mines in the DRC include Manono, which contains around 6,640,000 metric tons of lithium, according to September 2022 estimates, as well as the Gatumba-Gitarama mine.

4. Mali has significant prospects for lithium production. Mali is also projected to contribute to the world’s lithium supply during the coming years. Its leading mines include Goulamina, which contains 1,570,000 metric tons of lithium, and Bougouni, which contains 236,500 metric tons, according to September 2022 estimates.

5. International competition over Nigerian lithium. Nigeria has some of the most promising lithium ore reserves in Africa, although it did not produce any lithium in 2020 or 2021. Nigeria previously produced around 50 metric tons of lithium in 2019. There are various international companies vying for Nigerian lithium, although China controls the playing field there.

Key Drivers

There are various factors driving international competition over African lithium, including:

1. Vast African mineral resources:
Africa is among the top global producers for seven out of ten minerals necessary for the global transition towards a greener economy and for manufacturing electric cars. These minerals include lithium, cobalt, and platinum. Africa owns 30-75% of the world’s lithium, phosphate, copper, chromium, manganese, gold, platinum, diamond, and aluminum reserves.

Demand for lithium is projected to rise to 1.5 million metric tons by 2025, and will increase tenfold to thirty-fold by 2040. Geopolitical factors have shaped escalating international competition over natural resources in strategic regions including Africa, which holds a significant portion of the world’s mineral resources.

2. A scramble for African resources: There is intense competition between the US, China, and other nations over African resources. Both the US and China are trying to ensure the continued expansion of Africa’s mineral resources through investing in the African mining sector. These two countries have also expanded economic aid, loans, investments, infrastructural growth, and support for development projects in African countries. Some have accused China of trying to drown African countries in debt in order to control the continent’s mineral resources, something which Beijing staunchly denies.

Russia has also aimed to bolster ties with African countries and to acquire various strategic mineral deposits via the Wagner Group, which has recently expanded its involvement in various African countries.

3. Increasing demand for battery industries: Demand for batteries is set to rise over the coming decade as part of increased demand for electric vehicles, which are projected to comprise 50% of global car sales by 2030. There is also growing demand for smart devices that require lithium, which explains growing international interest in Africa in order to extract more lithium. International powers want to secure their access to these valuable minerals, especially since it is estimated that an additional 400 lithium mines could be needed to meet rising global demand.

4. Fears of global political upheaval: Concerns about a volatile international order have pushed industrialized countries to try to secure their access to multiple energy and mineral sources. This is particularly true in light of the uncertain outlook of the Russian war in Ukraine, which has now lasted over a year, and has led industrialized countries to diversify their mineral supply chains and to target African mineral resources.

5. Global transition to clean energy: The transition to clean energy has major ramifications for Africa, which is also among the regions hardest hit by climate change. Industrialized countries want to cooperate with Africa on various critical mineral supply chains, especially given the global shift away from reliance on oil and gas towards renewable energy sources such as solar and wind. This is why there has been increasing investment in environmentally-friendly industries such as electric cars. Manufacturing of laptop computers and microchips is up, which also requires an expanding supply of mineral resources. African countries control a significant portion of the resources necessary for the future of clean energy. Zimbabwe alone is home over 40 different minerals. This has sparked new competition over African mineral resources including lithium ore. The energy transition will require a dramatic increase in mineral supplies, and is demand is projected to climb to at least thirty times its current level during the next two decades.

International Competition

Many leading international powers, including the US and China, are trying to secure control of African lithium as part of their strategies to ensure access to critical minerals. The scale of this struggle over lithium is clear from the following factors:

1. A race to control African lithium: The mining of lithium ore in Africa has been hotly contested, especially between the US, China, India, and Europe, which are locked in a fierce contest to gain control over the minerals using in various renewable industries. Over the last two decades, China has been trying to bolster ties with African countries in order to get a foothold in the African minerals sector. It now controls 60% of global mineral extraction and refining, especially for lithium, cobalt, nickel, and manganese. China also dominates a significant portion of the African mining sector through various companies operating there.

Washington is trying to counter China’s economic clout in Africa, especially in the mineral extraction sector, and the lithium ore sector specifically. As a result, Washington has been in talks with various mineral-rich African countries, and held a US-Africa Leaders Summit in December 2022, which was attended by 49 African nations. The US has sought to further partnership and investment agreements in the African mining sector and recently signed a memorandum of understanding with the DRC and Zambia. This agreement is likely to involve building a minerals processing plant to support the development of supply chains for electric car production in the US through strengthening electric vehicle battery value chains.

2. Chinese supremacy in African lithium markets: China has been increasingly focused on the African mining sector, especially lithium ore. Between December 2021 and March 2022, three Chinese companies acquired stakes in lithium mines in Zimbabwe in order to strengthen their hold there. This is part of Chinese efforts to diversify lithium supplies, especially since China is the largest market for electric cars in the world.

Chinese companies wield significant clout in the mining sector in the DRC, especially with regard to cobalt and lithium production. These companies are investing in various projects related to lithium mining, including a green energy project. The Chinese company Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt signed an agreement with Kinshasa to build a lithium processing plant, while Ganfeng Lithium undertook a similar project in 2018 in Zimbabwe worth $160 million.

Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt has announced that it would invest $300 million in developing the processing plant at the Arcadia lithium mine in Zimbabwe, after acquiring the mine from Australian company Prospect Resources for $422 million.

3. US interest in lithium resources: Africa’s lithium resources have also caught the attention of US companies. Tesla has tried to get involved in the African lithium mining market due to concerns about rising lithium prices, which could impact the costs of electric vehicle production. This is especially true since the price of lithium jumped 488% in 2021 to $65,000 per ton in June 2022.

4. Many actors vie for a spot in African lithium markets: There are many international companies trying to gain a foothold in African lithium extraction. Leading companies include the Australian company Firefinch, which opened a branch under the name Leo Lithium in Mali and raised $100 million in its initial public offering. Another Australian company, Tyranna Resources, announced in 2022 that it would acquire an 80% stake in the Namibe lithium project in Angola. Meanwhile, yet another Australian company known as AVZ Minerals announced that it was involved in developing various African lithium projects, including the Manono mine in the DRC. The Indian Vinmart group is also involved in a partnership that holds three mining permits in the DRC, while the Canadian company Tantalex Lithium Resources has been developing a project in Manono in the DRC since 2018. The China-based Sinomine Resource Group has invested in Zimbabwe over the last two years, while the Australian company Atlantic Lithium plans to begin production through its Ewoyaa project in Ghana by 2024.

5. International partnerships for lithium extraction: The competition over lithium has led some companies to enter into cooperative agreements and partnerships. There are approximately nine lithium projects being developed in Namibia, Zimbabwe, Mali, Ghana, and the DRC, which are being carried out by joint agreement between international corporations that hope to cement their control over the lithium mining sector in Africa. These arrangements include an offtake agreement between Australian company Pilbara Minerals and Chinese company Ganfeng Lithium on projects such as the Pilgangoora lithium project in Australia, which will strengthen Chinese lithium supply chains. Ganfeng Lithium also reached a joint venture agreement with Leo Lithium (which split from Firefinch) to facilitate the development of the Goulamina mine in Mali. The Goulamina joint venture was listed on the ASX in June 2022 and was expected to raise $72 million.

Potential Repercussions

International competition over lithium in Africa is likely to increase in the next few years, which has various ramifications at both the regional and international levels. African countries feel that the international scramble for lithium is an opportunity for economic development and job creation and have endeavored to convince international companies to come to Africa and establish projects to process minerals for resale. However, this has prompted some African countries to tighten their lithium ore export polices. In December 2022, Zimbabwe banned lithium ore exports in order to encourage domestic mineral processing. This move cost the country $1.8 billion in lost revenue, while Zimbabwe’s lithium ore stockpiles grew to two million tons by February 2023.

There are growing concerns that Africa will not achieve its desired economic returns from the continent’s vast mineral resources. Countries such as Namibia have decided that to require that lithium ore to be processed locally before export in order to ensure a greater profit.

DRC President Felix Tshisekedi criticized the Chinese investment policy in Kinshasa’s mining sector during the Investing in Africa Mining Indaba, which was held in Cape Town in February 2023. Tshisekedi called for better terms for investment contracts in the mining sector. This issue is of particular importance to Kinshasa because it produces around 70% of the world’s cobalt. Tshisekedi stated in January 2023 that his country did not sufficiently benefit from the 6.2-billion-dollar agreement that granted China mining concessions in an “infrastructure-for-minerals” deal.

Meanwhile, there are growing US and Western fears of increasing Chinese influence in Africa and expanding Chinese control over African minerals. This could lead to further Western criticism that China is prioritizing its own narrow interests at the expense of African nations in order to drum up African opposition to China involvement. Some critics have focused on potential environmental and social repercussions of mining processes, such as displacement of local communities and environmental damage from mineral extraction and processing, which require clearing land in ways that could be harmful to both soil and water. Furthermore, lithium processing usually involves chemical toxins that could exacerbate environmental pollution.

Global battery flows are likely to experience growing disruptions as a result of the trade wars between Washington and Beijing. Meanwhile, demand for lithium from battery manufacturers is projected to increase 83% by 2027. This could be an exceptional opportunity for African countries to bolster the continent’s global economic clout and increase its international standing.

In conclusion, international competition over Africa’s expanding lithium production is expected to intensify during the coming years. This is especially true given that production is projected to increase to around 497,000 metric tons by 2030. This does not mean that Africa will become a global force in electric vehicle manufacturing, at least not in the short- or medium-term. However, it holds plenty of lithium and other resources. Africans can make the most of this international competition over lithium resources to maximize economic gains, especially since Africa has the potential to become the main global supplier of lithium in the years to come.

You’ve certainly been busy Cruiser!

I noticed on Twitter that Cominiere are saying that the DRC wants more (if not all) of Dathcom now they know what it’s worth. That’s something I’ve thought for a long time, but obviously would involve corruption and brown paper bags if the Chinese are part of that equation. Glad to see all the excellent responses on Twitter to the bullshit Cominiere has been posting.

I think the best thing shareholders can do is keep putting AVZ’s story in the media. An associate of mine replied to every bank and company sponsoring the DRC MINING WEEK 2023 event, including gold, diamond, platinum and lead sponsors, the Mining Advisory Board, the Minister's office and others last Friday…. The same day AVZ released it’s announcement

The reply read….

Read the AVZ story. AVZ Minerals spent 6 years & millions of dollars developing the Manono Project, only to have the project, ML & ownership delayed by the illegal actions of Cominiere, Chinese company Zijin and Simon Cong (Read the IGF report)

For 6 years in the DRC AVZ Minerals carried out Soil Sampling; Field Mapping; Consulting; Drilling; Metallurgical Testing; FEED Study; Securing a lease on an Industrial Site for logistics including road haulage, rail & port services & infrastructure rehab to the road from Manono

AVZ produced a 160-page Definitive Feasibility Study; Received DFS Technical Approval; Had a SEZ Agreement; Tendered for Mining Infrastructure and followed the DRC Mining Code. AVZ satisfied all required approvals - Environmental Approval; Financial Capability (through Raising Capital, Negotiating Funding with Pan African DFI’s, Arranging funding and Offtake Agreements with CATH, Obtaining Several Offtake Agreements for both Lithium and Tin) Favourable Cadastral Opinion & Favourable Technical Opinion of the DFS for the Manono project. The Ministerial Decree to award the ML was granted last April then taken away

AVZ Minerals also produced an 85-page Sustainability Report committed to Environmental and Social Governance (ESG) including Socio - economic benefits, Preserving environmental values, Providing a transparent and ethical supply chain, Ending poverty, Improving health and education, Economic growth and employment, Minimising greenhouse gas emissions, Preserving biodiversity, Restoring the Mpiana Mwanga Power Plant and Supplying energy and contributing to the local communities. AVZ's Environmental Study and Impact Assessment Reports included 7 ESIA's and Groundwater Management.

Now, following the DRC taking away AVZ's ownership and delaying the Mining License, AVZ has been forced to take the DRC to International Centre For Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID)
 
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obe wan

Regular
I again find it very hard to beleive that those who own that much couldn't get on the phone to someone from management when they want.
Suggesting that we should create a numbers database is sounding pretty suss tbh; you really think people would do that? I reckon 90% of those holding over 5m shares dont even post here or on the crapper, so its highly unlikely they'd want to divulge their numbers on here; I mean what would even be the point of that, because you'd even need their details ...of course that would be handy if you were wanting such detail to add names and numbers to something like a hostile takeover, board rolling etc.

Sure, sending an email , supplying management with your name and shares held in the first place may influence the timing in which one may or may not get a call, some indeed may get a direct number thereafter, but fodder gained from such follow up phone calls is pretty minimal..... there's a few lines in probably each of the announcements over the last 12+ months that you will be met with...maybe Nigel is giving his famous 'wink' on the call, but you cant see that over the phone.

Something that you may also find hard to believe, but the bulk of the phone hammering into the office is generated by those which are holding significantly less and generally make the most noise in the forums, as opposed to the big guns.

As the saying goes, Empty vessels make most sound. Apparently, they could hire a full-time receptionist if they wanted to take the tumble-drier of calls they get from shareholders and they'd still probably need to hire a second one. loads of repeat calls too fwiw ..... not very appetizing id imagine
 
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timb89

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Suggesting that we should create a numbers database is sounding pretty suss tbh; you really think people would do that? I reckon 90% of those holding over 5m shares dont even post here or on the crapper, so its highly unlikely they'd want to divulge their numbers on here; I mean what would even be the point of that, because you'd even need their details ...of course that would be handy if you were wanting such detail to add names and numbers to something like a hostile takeover, board rolling etc.

Sure, sending an email , supplying management with your name and shares held in the first place may influence the timing in which one may or may not get a call, some indeed may get a direct number thereafter, but fodder gained from such follow up phone calls is pretty minimal..... there's a few lines in probably each of the announcements over the last 12+ months that you will be met with...maybe Nigel is giving his famous 'wink' on the call, but you cant see that over the phone.

Something that you may also find hard to believe, but the bulk of the phone hammering into the office is generated by those which are holding significantly less and generally make the most noise in the forums, as opposed to the big guns.

As the saying goes, Empty vessels make most sound. Apparently, they could hire a full-time receptionist if they wanted to take the tumble-drier of calls they get from shareholders and they'd still probably need to hire a second one. loads of repeat calls too fwiw ..... not very appetizing id imagine

Dont be stupid. I have 6 years of post history across here and HC. I am a small holder by comparison to the numbers we are talking. I am not trying to hostile takeover AVZ. Jesus.

I've seen campaigns like this have a material effect on management eg. TON.

It would not be a tumble drier of calls. If collectively 50mil plus worth of holders came to management with a suggestion (or even a response as to why not), on something like (for example) taking a pay cut or returning peformance shares to pay for legal funds. I personally think this is an action they can take that is within their power and will pay more for optics long run.
 
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wombat74

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Well John, we're had nothing but heresay which usually turns out to be wrong or remains unsubstantiated to this day.
It's obvious they're trying to do something in the background but the result on paper has been nothing but a web of complicated court cases which will presumably take years to collectively settle.
Even for the first of those arbitrations to begin we've been waiting 12+ months.
Just keeping track of the above has become a complicated and stressful affair with zero guidance from management in what should have ideally been a simple case of having the mining licence issued and to begin construction anywhere up to two years ago.
In the meantime more and more major projects come online as the faith and trust in the DRC's ability to progress Manono diminishes.
In an ideal scenario we could have first shipment going to market around this time.
Reality is we're still years away at best, if ever.
I'm finding this to be a less and less optomistic position and feeling less and less enthusiastic to remain invested regardless of the outcome from this point.
I'm sorry if this ruffles a few feathers but I think that is the sad reality for some shareholders, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
Managements silence smacks of self preservation and hopelessness as much as anything else.
How long can the DRC sit on this deposit ? If it doesn't matter to them they can drag us out in a legal stoush for the next 3 , 4 ,5 years . If it is important to them then they need to make a decision . I'm hoping this will force Felix's hand one way or the other . Worse case they strip us completely and we can all move on and let the legal process run it's course . I can accept that as long as Nigel didn't have options on the table previously and didn't take them .
 
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