AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
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Der Geist
Regular
NoCart before the horse dudes.............
Lots more important things to focus on atm, like %%% ML , CDL exploration permit, ICC arbitration, Dathomir court case, SEZ, BFS update, FID , construction.................ffs.
But even before that, upcoming Perth Roadshow , AGM and getting out of fucking suspension.
But even before that..........compiling questions for the sophisticated investors within this forum to ask BOD at Perth Roadshow, as i didnt get a invite ( small fry in comparison ) and cant attend in any case to due work committments.
Just sayin.
no.
I gave up asking self censoring journalists.
It’s annoying that dumb cock Tommy gets to creak the door.
Simon Cong doesn’t talk anymore, at least not to me. Don’t know why.
I was after proof of the offer AVZL lawyers made to Cong’s lawyers, but I couldn’t quite manage. The lawyer was against it, as it was reasoned needed for the appeal hearing. Cong’s lawyer was of the view that the offer was evidence AVZ understood it did not own the 15%. Perhaps in Congo Jungle fever land that is the case. But it’s likely not an argument to make, as offers are made alll the time to settle. In the end the lawyer breached a likely NDA. AVZ knows about it. Just a another slip of paper among the reams AVZ has on the little mafia.
Klaus reckons the Chinese are making offers to Cong. I think he was confident that things are going his way or for his ‘friends’. I do think we are seeing what he said was there, the level of corruption runs deep. FT is not fully respected it seems. But US would be watching very closely. we have concrete proof they are strutting their stuff because they know they only have shit lithium deposits. Great when opex/costs are low. But recoveries?
I’ll say this about AVZ’s Congo opponents, when AVZ gets the license, I think the legal disputes will continue but in due course, all the evidence over 5 years has accrued such that I wouldn’t be surprised if the right Intel agencies have it on file.
The other thing that makes me shudder about Tommy snag is that he doesn’t seem to twig it’s a bad idea for the Chinese fo get Manono. There is no strategic compass in Tommy’s nouse. (pun intended). Instead the AFR should be ringing the alarm bells on this Chinese conquest. This is not about AVZ in the end this is about Western hegemony being outsmarted in the new energy industry. We shall see.
C
ChrisU
Guest
Obviously AVZ, sees value in these proceedings.
questions to ask Management:
Is AVZ engaging the ICC for arbitration with Zijin, or, am I mistaken; imagining this arbitration between Zijjn and AVZ is happening?
If Zijin’s rights on Cominiere 15% are not material, without foundation, why accept an invitation to do ICC arbitration at all?
What value do you hope to derive from ICC arbitration with Zijin?
Is this value material or immaterial?
But Zijin claims were already without foundation?
My reading of the latest update:
ICC update
AVZ have made a jurisdictional challenge for the arbitration matter, related to whether the pre-emption rights were breached. A jurisdictional challenge is when a Respondent makes a submission challenging the adjudicator's jurisdiction to determine a dispute. ICC ruled in favour of AVZI to hear and determine the challenge.
The International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce18 (“ICC) is among those institutions that have empowered their respective boards or courts of arbitration to decide an objection to their jurisdiction, and thus to dismiss a case if they conclude that the institute has no jurisdiction over the dispute.
So a decision has not been made here yet. ICC could either dismiss the case if they do not believe they have jurisdiction or continue on with arbitration proceedings.
DRC tribunal decision
There has been a request by Dathomir for suspension of payments which have already been made.
Both Dathomir share purchase agreements (SPAs) are subject to arbitration agreements. My interpretation of this is that you can't just get any random run of the mill tribunal to hear arbitration matters in relation to these agreements as they have set requirements written into the agreements. Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI's acquisition. No such proceedings have commenced and the tribunal decision does not purport to have any effect on the SPAs. The tribunal decision mentioned did not happen within a properly constituted arbitral tribunal. Therefore it does not have jurisdiction. This is set out in the SPA.
AVZ considers 20 September decision immaterial. I would agree. They can suspend and hold the funds in whatever holding account they want, it does not change the fact that the transaction has occurred.
I could sell a car and receive the funds in one of my accounts by transfer. I could then give the car to the buyer then tell the bank not to transfer the funds to my main savings account...ok, so what? That doesn't mean I can get the car back.
ICC update
AVZ have made a jurisdictional challenge for the arbitration matter, related to whether the pre-emption rights were breached. A jurisdictional challenge is when a Respondent makes a submission challenging the adjudicator's jurisdiction to determine a dispute. ICC ruled in favour of AVZI to hear and determine the challenge.
The International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce18 (“ICC) is among those institutions that have empowered their respective boards or courts of arbitration to decide an objection to their jurisdiction, and thus to dismiss a case if they conclude that the institute has no jurisdiction over the dispute.
So a decision has not been made here yet. ICC could either dismiss the case if they do not believe they have jurisdiction or continue on with arbitration proceedings.
DRC tribunal decision
There has been a request by Dathomir for suspension of payments which have already been made.
Both Dathomir share purchase agreements (SPAs) are subject to arbitration agreements. My interpretation of this is that you can't just get any random run of the mill tribunal to hear arbitration matters in relation to these agreements as they have set requirements written into the agreements. Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI's acquisition. No such proceedings have commenced and the tribunal decision does not purport to have any effect on the SPAs. The tribunal decision mentioned did not happen within a properly constituted arbitral tribunal. Therefore it does not have jurisdiction. This is set out in the SPA.
AVZ considers 20 September decision immaterial. I would agree. They can suspend and hold the funds in whatever holding account they want, it does not change the fact that the transaction has occurred.
I could sell a car and receive the funds in one of my accounts by transfer. I could then give the car to the buyer then tell the bank not to transfer the funds to my main savings account...ok, so what? That doesn't mean I can get the car back.
Rediah
Regular
And your reply on twitter was spot on as to why this announcement came today when you replied to boatman and co. I was slow to connect the dots.Correct and my left nut is saved
Thing 1. Z/ICC Arbitration: The next action is for the ICC to determine whether it has *jurisdiction* to hear the case. AVZ think the ICC does not have jurisdiction and, if correct, the case will not proceed to the next step (of “being heard on its merits”).
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
CashKing
Regular
I love it when you drink
all the good stuff comes out but it still questions me who the fark are you 
. Speak in tongues like Michael does & IMO He’s still in…. We shall see….
Mr Inappropriate
Regular
Thanks MB. I received the PM and have responded.
My interpretation is the ICC thingy is a follows [with my comments in square brackets]
Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
“The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI
[it’s procedural decision rather than any consideration of the facts of the matter in dispute. This can be more or less ignored in my view].
“…and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge
(around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached)
[AVZ are stating that this is not a matter over which the ICC has authority to make a decision. AVZ could assert that the matter must be heard in a court within the DRC in line with common law or as described in a binding agreement to which AVZ is a party].
“…before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.
[here they are saying they the ICC will consider whether they (the ICC) have authority (jurisdiction) to even hear the matter. If the ICC concludes that they do not have that jurisdiction, the matter will not proceed any further].
“The timetable of the arbitral proceedings are yet to be set by the arbitrator.
[as above, no timetable is set because proceeding may be halted at the previous step].
Hopefully, that makes sense. Hopefully, I’m right.
All positive news! The person writing the announcements should be sacked..F***
C
ChrisU
Guest
What annoys me about AVZ’s style is circumlocution: “Only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”
What is “a properly constituted arbitral tribunal”?
Spell it out.
We need to understand why AVZ emphasises “tribunal”, whereas Tom Richardson used “court”.
AVZ says nothing on the or any authority of the tribunal.
Richardson is up to his semantic tricks. He did the same thing in his May article
obe wan
Regular
Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.
Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration
Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion
AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.
So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .
DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.
So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....
......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.
...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on
My interpretation is similar to yours.
1. Agreed.
2. My interpretation is slightly different. I don't think AVZ is so confident that they did not send anyone.
None of the defendants were present or heard by the tribunal. It sounds like Dathomir just went to a very low level tribunal and asked for a payment to be "suspended". None of the defendants were there. We don't even know if they were notified. The tribunal appears to have "suspended" the payment but it does not have jurisdiction to decide any arbitration matters as it is not a properly constituted arbitral tribunal as set out by the requirements of the share purchase agreements.
So they have suspended this payment. That's fine. They can keep the money at the bank in whatever holding account they want. This does not impact the share purchase agreements. The tribunal does not purport to have any effect on the validity of the Dathomir share purchase agreements.
Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.
Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration
Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion
AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.
So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .
DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.
So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....
......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.
...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on
This is my interpretation too. I also would be SUPER interested to see if the funds were left in the account the whole time or whether the sale took place, they took the money and spent it, then months later saw the huge price increases for lithium and transferred funds back into the account where it could then be "suspended".
For whatever reason this AFR Tom has a very biased view against AVZ. A court sounds more official/negative then a tribunal and he also stated on twitter that the decision voided the deal to buy 15% of Manono, when this does not appear to be correct at all. It appears as if he is deliberately trying to summarise the situation in as negative a light as possible. He appears to have some type of strong motive for him to want AVZ not to succeed. You would think he is opening himself up to negative consequences in the future.
Samus
Top 20
I think I see what's happened here, the update is written by an illiterate drc lawyer who can't string a cohesive sentence together...
It reads like one of those articles out of the dodgy drc newspapers.
Designed to confound and confuse the issue to the point where it simply does the readers head in and they just give up.
It reads like one of those articles out of the dodgy drc newspapers.
Designed to confound and confuse the issue to the point where it simply does the readers head in and they just give up.
You have been way off the mark on accuracy in this area previously. The arbitration was purely a procedural matter and would be dropped by the other party. Was that not your your mantra?Jin Cheng ICC Arbitration Proceedings
Article 24 , Case Management Conference and Procedural Timetable - as per your link @MoneyBags1348
*the arbitral tribunal shall hold a case management conference to consult the parties on procedural measures that may be adopted - as per the ann 9/9/22 - The Parties will be convened to a case management conference in September 2022, so this obviously has happened.
Article 24 point 2 - During such conference, or as soon as possible thereafter, the arbitral tribunal shall establish the procedural timetable that it intends to follow for the efficient conduct of the arbitration
Article 24 - point 4 - Case management conferences may be conducted through a meeting in person, by video conference, telephone or similar means of communication. In the absence of an agreement of the parties, the arbitral tribunal shall determine the means by which the conference will be conducted. The arbitral tribunal may request the parties to submit case management proposals in advance of a case management conference and may request the attendance at any case management conference of the parties in person or through an internal representative. - So here it suggests , they try and nut it out to see how best to und get things underway and undertake that efficient route in coming to a conclusion
AVZ ann 20.10.22 - The Arbitrator has issued Procedural Order No.1-3 ruling in favour of AVZI and consequently will now proceed to hear and determine AVZI’s jurisdictional challenge (around whether AVZI’s pre-emption rights were breached) before dealing, if necessary, with the merits of the case.
So would appear that most efficient manner , i.e quickest way to the end would obviously be tapping those pre-emption terms and seeing of they were breached .... based on the outcome of that, then they would decide if the case is even a goer.....ICC likely see pre-emption rights conditions as the jugular .
DRC Tribunal Decision -
As the DRC Tribunal correctly acknowledged, both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements. It follows that only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition of a further 15% interest in Dathcom from Dathomir.
So no defendants in the room , but Tribunal decision was granted to Cong for interim suspension of payments which were already in the designated account , an account number which was provided to AVZ for the deposit, Cong hasnt spent he money , its kept in an account because he decided after he had received he wanted more.....it would be interesting to see a statement of that account and any transactional movements to and returning back into. Anyway Tribunal decided to give Cong that status, but also acknowledged that both Dathomir SPAs contain and are subject to arbitration agreements ....... so , only a properly constituted arbitral tribunal has jurisdiction to overturn AVZI’s August 2021 acquisition....
......kinda sounds like the Dathomir case holds no merit unless Cong takes it to a higher level.
...Given Cominiere's dodgy dealings, sounds like ICC probablt agree that Pre-emption rights in probably the path of least resistance in getting this thing efficiently dealt with everyone just moving on
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C
ChrisU
Guest
The same effect was struck in the media speculation statement.
CashKing
Regular
Probably has a fair few shorts & is pissed he paying interest etc….
Ages ago once we started proving up Manono’s massive deposit, I had a weird feeling that someone in Aus wasn’t happy with how good our grades were etc..
Hmm I can picture he’s face but not sure, he blocked a lot of people on the bird I think, long shot but somethings smells of boatman’s reports & having something to do with that person & or Tommy boy….
I’m probably going crazy cause AVZ will do that to you after 5 years…..
So AIMO & Tomorrow I’ll say the greatest saying that apparently gets you off shit….
“I can’t recall” in a calm deep soft voice…
GLTAH
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Winenut
GO AVZ!!!!
Anyone else want Modo, R2 and Der Geist to just fuck off and talk to themselves somewhere else?
Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?
Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......
Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard
But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits
Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....
Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman
All IMHO of course
Come to think of it I thought Modo got whacked?
Maybe it was just wishful thinking or the shyster deleted his/her own posts......
Not getting much from the official company announcements at the moment....in fact very disappointed in that regard
But the ongoing and increasing agenda driven bullshit being peddled around and around and around is giving me the fucking shits
Fucking inuendo and insider boogey woogey.....
Sitting right there on top of the same undulating and disturbing waters as the fucking Boatman
All IMHO of course
CashKing
Regular
Let it all out mate… it’s your/our time to shine
while the eastern boys and gals are sound asleep dreaming of AVZ trading again 
Fark me look at the page number…..
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