What if Permits are Not Granted

[beserk]

We are discussing the local Kiruna municipality council and the political machinations within the Council as a threat to gaining a mining permit. The reality is that the green transition in Kiruna, Sweden or EU, starts with the requirement for more mineral production within EUs borders.

"The green transition starts in the mine " is a direct quote from the President of Euromines and CEO of LKAB Jan Moström.

He took every oppourtunity hammering in this message when he had a captive audience of EU and Swedish politicans assembled in Kiruna in January.

I read this insightful analysis of the political sensitivities of the Swedish Government coalition consisting of Moderate, Liberal +Christian Democrats. But the coalition crucially need the support of the Sweden Democrats, a party on the extreme right wing of Swedish politics that are close to EU sceptical , hyper nationalistic, anti immigration parties in the EU.

So let us lift off from the Esrange space station in Kiruna and look out over Sweden and the EU from an Arctic perspective and find out what pressures the present Swedish Government faces and how that possibly is impacting their policies on in particular green transition.

Sweden’s fragile coalition faces its first stress test as EU presidency begins

Sweden’s fragile coalition faces its first stress test as EU presidency begins

www.investigate-europe.eu

It isn't easy to be green as Kermit the frog of the Muppet show so famously declared. And being a hand puppet for other hidden agendas I might add.

-beserk

 

[beserk]

I can't resist venturing further into the magical Kingdoms of transnational Sapmi covering Central and Northern Norway, Northern Sweden, Northern Finland and the Kola peninsula.

These are the 500 000 km2 of the Arctic and sub Arctic North where you can find domesticated reindeer. However, the cities outside the areas where reindeer roam, containing the largest population of non reindeer owning Sámi is surprisingly the Fennoscandinavian metropolises further South including Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki and Uppsala .

And only 10 to 15 % of Sámi actually own reindeer as previously mentioned.

There is an authoritative Nordregio spatial report on this reindeer herding area, https://nordregio.org/maps/reindeer-herding-area/. It captures and summarises the figures and facts of the basis of the livelihood of a fraction of the Sámi nation. The illustrations and text below are taken from this report.

View attachment 33508

So there is a total of 280 000 domesticated Swedish reindeer distributed between 51 Sámi co ops. Talma being the 3d most northerly co op.

But IMHO the whole legal issue of Talgas mining concession hinges on one major legal argument namely that Talma Sámi village historical land borders are bisected by the Cultivation Border, Odlingsgränsen,

....AND that Nunasvaara Sth graphite is located just east of this legal border ie in what is prescribed as winter grazing land marked in light green. I have tried to point out spatially the location of this critical part of Talmas borders bisected by the Cultivation Border. By red arrow.

In light of Talgas decision to restrict its mining operations to the summer months, between snow melt in May and first snow in October, when the Talmas reindeer are on extended summer break 200 km to the west of Nunasvaara Sth, makes eminent sense to me. In a legal context.

Hopefully the Swedish Land and Enviro Court decision will follow this argument based on the division of year around v winter grazing lands applied to Talmas borders and the location of Nunasvaara Sth.

We will know the Courts decision day after tomorrow.

And I will let you know asap after the decision is publicly released.

-beserk

 

[beserk]

I can't resist venturing further into the magical kingdoms of transnational Sapmi covering Central and Northern Norway, Northern Sweden, Northern Finland and the Kola peninsula.

These are the 500 000 km2 of the Arctic and sub Arctic North where you can find domesticated reindeer. However, the cities outside the areas where reindeer roam and with the largest population of non reindeer owning Sámi is the Fennoscandinavian major cities of Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki and Uppsala further South.

And only 10 to 15 % of Sámi actually own reindeer as previously mentioned.

There is an authoritative Nordregio spatial report on this reindeer herding area, https://nordregio.org/maps/reindeer-herding-area/. It captures and summarises the figures and facts of the basis of the livelihood of a fraction of the Sámi nation. The illustrations and text below are taken from this report.

View attachment 33508 View attachment 33509 View attachment 33510 View attachment 33511

So there is a total of 280 000 domesticated Swedish reindeer distributed between 51 Sámi co ops. Talma being the 3d most northerly co op.

But IMHO the whole legal issue of Talgas mining concession hinges on one major legal argument namely that Talma Sámi village historical land borders are bisected by the Cultivation Border, Odlingsgränsen,

View attachment 33514

....AND that Nunasvaara Sth graphite is located just east of this legal border ie in what is prescribed as winter grazing land marked in light green. I have tried to point out spatially the location of this critical part of Talmas borders bisected by the Cultivation Border. By red arrow.

So Talgas decision to restrict its mining operations to the summer months when Talmas reindeer are on extended summer break 200 km to the west of Nunasvaara Sth makes eminent sense to me. In a legal context.

Hopefully the Swedish Land and Enviro Court decision will follow this argument based on the division of year around v winter grazing lands applied to Talmas borders and the location of Nunasvaara Sth.

We will know the Courts decision tomorrow.

And I will let you know asap.

-beserk

And we should send a grateful thank you to the intrepid Finnish speaking settler, Henrik Mickelsson Kyrö, from Pello, that travelled by boat up 200 km along the Torne river transport route into the interior and decided to settle permanently in 1674.

IMO it is because of early venture capitalists like Henrik and his family and those that followed that the Swedish Government when finalising the Cultivation border in1851 pushed it up the Torne river valley. The long history of settlement in Vittangi area was weighed up against the Sámi claim for reindeer grazing rights and the settlers of Vittangi won out.

As a consequence the border was drawn 10 km west of Vittangi just past Nunasvaara. Which hopefully will have some bearing on wednesdays Court decision.

-beserk

 

[cosors]

And we should send a grateful thank you to the intrepid Finnish speaking settler, Henrik Mickelsson Kyrö, from Pello, that travelled by boat up 200 km along the Torne river transport route into the interior and decided to settle permanently in 1674.

View attachment 33521

IMO it is because of early venture capitalists like Henrik and his family and those that followed that the Swedish Government pushed the Cultivation Border up the Torne river valley. The long history of settlement in Vittangi area was weighed up against the Sámi claim for reindeer grazing rights and the settlers of Vittangi won out.

As a consequence the border was drawn 10 km west of Vittangi just past Nunasvaara. Which hopefully will have some bearing on tomorrows Court decision.

-beserk

Thanks for your insight!
Finally, someone confirms what I've been talking about so often here with the border.
I have found peace with the meaning of village that means a whole area like the striped ones at the top of your maps.

We have one more day to wait. I'll never quite get used to you being a day ahead. Like a time machine - LoL.

 

[Semmel]

2 days my friend. Today is April 3rd. Decision comes on April 5th

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

Many of us are feeling nervous but I keep returning to this thought and I know there is no evidence of this at all but I cant help thinking MT must know that 90% the permits are in the bag. Plus don't forget TLG hired the best lawyers for this case.

I mean just look at where the company is at regarding recruitment, the trial mine, the pilot plant, the drilling results, the multiple offices and research facilities then all the R & D.

This is one incredible gamble otherwise.

He must know something even if it is Swedish Government intervention. But I'm guessing what he knows is at Court level

Anyway it's 5pm in Sydney. That means we will all know within 24 to 32 hours

 

[beserk]

Yeah and its 6 pm in Melbourne but you know that. And in Perth WA it is 4pm. Wonder where in the world MT is a day such as this? Rottnest Island outside of Perth communing with the Quokkas?

Quokkas Spotting - Where to see Rottnest Island's Quokkas

The best places on Wadjemup / Rottnest Island to see and experience the world’s largest quokka population.

www.rottnestisland.com

-beserk

 

[Affenhorst]

Does anybody know what the situation is with Talga's other deposits (Jalkunen etc) outside of Vittangi? Any conflicts with reindeer herding there? Might be a viable Plan B to get graphite.

 

[Semmel]

There are no plans for s mine yet. And as soon as there are plans, there will be conflicts. Pretty sure that's how it goes.

 

[Affenhorst]

There are no plans for s mine yet. And as soon as there are plans, there will be conflicts. Pretty sure that's how it goes.

Probably. But rare mushrooms cannot afford the same kind of lawyer that reindeer herders have. So it would be interesting if there are any such claims in those areas.

Another problem would be that tat Talga would have to do a lot of costly drilling to define the resource and make a feasibility study.

 

[Semmel]

Probably. But rare mushrooms cannot afford the same kind of lawyer that reindeer herders have. So it would be interesting if there are any such claims in those areas.

Another problem would be that tat Talga would have to do a lot of costly drilling to define the resource and make a feasibility study.

The cost of drilling becomes way less of an issue when we have a reliable revenue stream. You need a business to snowball it. Without the current permits, I dont see them going through the same kind of process at other locations. First expectation would be, that they would ask politics for help. If that doesnt work and Nunasvaara is shelved for good, can see Talga leaving Europe for good and not do any mining again. If Europe doesnt want to have an industry base and battery supply train, Talga is not going to force it on us. I can see them abondening Talnode-C. For the record, I dont think that will happen. I think if the environmental permit is denied, within weeks politics would step in and make it possible regardless. But in the near impossible case that this doesnt happen, I dont see Talga having a future in Europe.

 

[DAH]

The cost of drilling becomes way less of an issue when we have a reliable revenue stream. You need a business to snowball it. Without the current permits, I dont see them going through the same kind of process at other locations. First expectation would be, that they would ask politics for help. If that doesnt work and Nunasvaara is shelved for good, can see Talga leaving Europe for good and not do any mining again. If Europe doesnt want to have an industry base and battery supply train, Talga is not going to force it on us. I can see them abondening Talnode-C. For the record, I dont think that will happen. I think if the environmental permit is denied, within weeks politics would step in and make it possible regardless. But in the near impossible case that this doesnt happen, I dont see Talga having a future in Europe.

Has anyone seen a permit declined due to conflicts with reindeer herding? (I haven't). Rightly or wrongly their explicit land use rights aren't well presented under Swedish law. Add to that the fact Vittangi has national interest demarcation, which in my mind means the Sami need to work with us not against us. If my thinking here is right, and we know all other major stakeholders are on-board, trial mine was approved and is ticking boxes, how are we getting a decline? I'm all in so selfishly hope my DD was on point

 

[Semmel]

Has anyone seen a permit declined due to conflicts with reindeer herding? (I haven't). Rightly or wrongly their explicit land use rights aren't well presented under Swedish law. Add to that the fact Vittangi has national interest demarcation, which in my mind means the Sami need to work with us not against us. If my thinking here is right, and we know all other major stakeholders are on-board, trial mine was approved and is ticking boxes, how are we getting a decline? I'm all in so selfishly hope my DD was on point

I'm the same. Though it makes sense to argue from the point of view that our selfish, hopeful, selective and biased opinion is wrong. We will see tomorrow and can put this train of argument into the grave.

 

[DAH]

I'm the same. Though it makes sense to argue from the point of view that our selfish, hopeful, selective and biased opinion is wrong. We will see tomorrow and can put this train of argument into the grave.

100% Semmel hence my question. There's a lot to like about the TLG story and its prospects so hard to know if you're wearing rose coloured glasses or not.

Given we're approaching the end of one chapter and the start of another, a huge thank you to you and @cosors for setting up the TLG thread on TSE. It was a much needed breath of fresh air and no doubt many readers and posters here are grateful.

Cheers to you both!

See you in the new chapter

 

[Semmel]

100% Semmel hence my question. There's a lot to like about the TLG story and its prospects so hard to know if you're wearing rose coloured glasses or not.

Given we're approaching the end of one chapter and the start of another, a huge thank you to you and @cosors for setting up the TLG thread on TSE. It was a much needed breath of fresh air and no doubt many readers and posters here are grateful.

Cheers to you both!

See you in the new chapter

Thx for coming along and forming a community that is worth caring for. Much love and good luck to everyone

 

[cosors]

Ja, und es ist 18 Uhr in Melbourne, aber das weißt du. Und in Perth WA ist es 16 Uhr. Frage mich, wo in aller Welt MT ein Tag wie dieser ist? Rottnest Island außerhalb von Perth, das mit den Quokkas kommuniziert?

Quokkas Spotting - Where to see Rottnest Island's Quokkas

The best places on Wadjemup / Rottnest Island to see and experience the world’s largest quokka population.

www.rottnestisland.com

-Beserk

Is that graphite

 

[beserk]

Be careful, you might get your feet wet!

-beserk

 

[beserk]

View attachment 32936
https://thestockexchange.com.au/threads/meet-up-brisbane.155438/post-250365

That isn't a bridge this is a bridge in Scotland. Not owned by 45th POTUS.

-beserk

 

[TentCity]

100% Semmel hence my question. There's a lot to like about the TLG story and its prospects so hard to know if you're wearing rose coloured glasses or not.

Given we're approaching the end of one chapter and the start of another, a huge thank you to you and @cosors for setting up the TLG thread on TSE. It was a much needed breath of fresh air and no doubt many readers and posters here are grateful.

Cheers to you both!

See you in the new chapter

Yes, agree with the sentiments DAH and vielen dank to Cosors for anchoring the TSE forum. It certainly provided a welcome relief from the reign of ‘Beach’ over at HC, who saturated the threads & killed any genuine discussion. I still wonder who paid him and what they achieved during that period!

Extending my best wishes to us all that we get the nod tonight/tomorrow morning and many of our marriages survive our love affair with Talga . Most of my shares were all bought in my wife’s name -so there’s no hiding from the outcome in my household! Thinking it though, if the news is bad - she may divorce me & if the news is good. - she may still divorce me and run away with all the money

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

I'm the same. Though it makes sense to argue from the point of view that our selfish, hopeful, selective and biased opinion is wrong. We will see tomorrow and can put this train of argument into the grave.

TLG is much too far advanced on this project for this to be some massive gamble. It just doesn't make sense for a rational human being and his BoD to go off on some wild adventure spending all this money for there not to be a quiet consensus between TLG and the Swedish government to deliver a knock out blow to any rejection to permits.

MT obviously cant talk about such things but I'm sure he has received assurances of legislative support if all else fails.

The largest source of graphite in the EU to be left in the ground even though TLG has bent over backwards to ensure a minimal environmental footprint ?

Which of course means the EU needs to rely on China or Africa for graphite

If you look at the big picture then no way is that going to happen if the permits get rejected.

This project will happen one way or another