TLG Discussion 2022

ACinEur

Regular
Question to the stock dwellers here.. i have trouble finding a peer group to Talga. As we know there is no alternative in Europe in terms of natural Graphite for batteries. But what company is the largest synthetic graphite producer in Europe? Anyone know?

If we look more broadly, I used to look at a number of companies to gauge if stock movements are specific to TLG or the broader market.. they all have issues now.


NVX: Emerging US company for synthetic graphite. In the gutter below 1 AUD, ATM was 11AUD about 1.5 years ago. Not sure of the reason, but probably over promised and under delivered. I dont know the details.

SYR: Emerging natural graphite producer in Canada, gearing towards spherical graphite particles but not coated as far as I know.. Its also in the gutter below 1AUD, max in recent years was 3AUD. I think they have some issues with the CEO and someone exercising convertable bonds which blew up the share count by 20% or something.

VUL: Emerging European lithium producer. Not graphite but operating in Europe and its trying to establish a mine (though for brine water in south Germany instead of a pit) to extract lithium from it. In many ways comparable with Talga because its something new and unique in Europe, its trying to extract resources and requires permits. Though its swimming on the lithium wave that didnt hit the graphite market (yet). They are in decline since quite some time and might drop another 20% as soon as they come out of the trading halt for issuing more shares.


All in all, thats the peer group that I was looking at in the past and ... all of them are in decline for some reason or other. Point is, they do not serve as peer group any longer. Does anyone know any other company in the graphite for batteries business outside China that might be comparable to Talga?

edit: The last version included AVZ but I mistook it for a graphite project, not a lithium one. Its not comparable to Talga.
Hi Semmel. Closest in the graphite space is NMG in Canada…good company and prospects…Share price says something else… I also hold EMN and EMH both European plays Mangenese and Lithium…I personally think EMN will play out really well. The CEO was CFO at Lynas and did a very good job there and I like the steady progress they are making… All in my opinion etc etc…
 
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brewm0re

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I love Talga for this very reason, tracking graphite stocks is not going to get you a true picture of what Talga is if you put it in lists like RK equity leaderboard and don't understand the difference. "Talga is a graphite technology company that just happens to own a world class deposit" Making money from Talga is not going to be about graphite mining, It's all about the finished product Anode. Not many others in the world will be doing it as green as us! #SleepingDragon.
Hi Coolbeans, I was quite reluctant posting that RK leaderboard, to answer a harmless question to Semmel, a very valuable contributor.

I'm very well aware of Talga's point of difference, especially when answering Semmel's question directly relating to Stock companies that have graphite exposure/mining as part of their business model. This is the reason why my share portfolio is >99%, purely exposed to Talga, and I do not have any other 'graphite' stocks, & thus avoided 'hedging my bets' in this space, showing absolute conviction in this company.

Making money by mining graphite will not be imperative (but it is certainly the 'Plan A' option), as MT puts it, and we all know it is important so as to boost margins even higher. Talga is completely 100% vertically integrated and you could further segment those companies that I listed via RK Equity who are seeking to replicate Talga (if they can/will, is another conversation).

As an advanced battery materials company, do we then compare those companies exposed to mid/down stream, all the way down to finished anode/battery cell? When investing, you look at all facets of the business model of Talga, and the upstream is at least a good starting point, as shown in the RK Equity graphite leaderboard.

For the moment, we are unfortunately pigeon-holed into a graphite/mining company, which i whole heartedly disagree.

Anyways, i agree Talga is no comparison, and will leave it there.

Cheers Coolbeans
 
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SYR: Emerging natural graphite producer in Canada, gearing towards spherical graphite particles but not coated as far as I know.. Its also in the gutter below 1AUD, max in recent years was 3AUD. I think they have some issues with the CEO and someone exercising convertable bonds which blew up the share count by 20% or something.
Syrah is in Mozambique by the way

Syrah's current problem is that their main market was China and the bottom has fallen out of the market due to stockpiling and EV subsidies ending. That was providing some cashflow to keep the lights on whilst they built their US anode facility. So the order book has shrunk for the time being as has the price. It is not a long term market for them.

Syrah's future lies in anodes from its factory in Vidalia USA but it is not yet finished.

Australian Super (our largest pension fund) is Syrah's white knight providing another set of convertible notes to provide cashflow but being convertible it also is a diluter as you observed.

Syrah will be fine once they get their factory going
 
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Monkeymandan

Regular
Hi Coolbeans, I was quite reluctant posting that RK leaderboard, to answer a harmless question to Semmel, a very valuable contributor.

I'm very well aware of Talga's point of difference, especially when answering Semmel's question directly relating to Stock companies that have graphite exposure/mining as part of their business model. This is the reason why my share portfolio is >99%, purely exposed to Talga, and I do not have any other 'graphite' stocks, & thus avoided 'hedging my bets' in this space, showing absolute conviction in this company.

Making money by mining graphite will not be imperative (but it is certainly the 'Plan A' option), as MT puts it, and we all know it is important so as to boost margins even higher. Talga is completely 100% vertically integrated and you could further segment those companies that I listed via RK Equity who are seeking to replicate Talga (if they can/will, is another conversation).

As an advanced battery materials company, do we then compare those companies exposed to mid/down stream, all the way down to finished anode/battery cell? When investing, you look at all facets of the business model of Talga, and the upstream is at least a good starting point, as shown in the RK Equity graphite leaderboard.

For the moment, we are unfortunately pigeon-holed into a graphite/mining company, which i whole heartedly disagree.

Anyways, i agree Talga is no comparison, and will leave it there.

Cheers Coolbeans

And if anyone doubts that Talga are so
much more than a miner, I suggest waving the Talnode-S patent application under their nose. True alchemy. Material and chemical engineering of the highest order.
 
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Diogenese

Top 20

Resnacore is worth as much as Talga?

https://***************.com.au/renascor-resources-asxrnu-upgrades-siviour-mre-2022-08-18/

1683263618739.png


Renascor Resources (ASX:RNU) upgrades Siviour MRE​

ASX News, Mining​


Jessica De Freitas Markets Reporter: jessica.defreitas@***************.com.au18 August 2022 11:24(
 
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Monkeymandan

Regular
And if anyone doubts that Talga are so
much more than a miner, I suggest waving the Talnode-S patent application under their nose. True alchemy. Material and chemical engineering of the highest order.

You sure can't dig graphene coated, silicon-graphite composite particles out of the ground.

Have to pinch oneself this isn’t our main offering. This is going to move the SP like nothing else when it’s finally understood.

Almost impossible to think eligible IRA funding for silicon anodes won’t be coming our way. When was Blinken’s European jaunt again...
 

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Resnacore is worth as much as Talga?

https://***************.com.au/renascor-resources-asxrnu-upgrades-siviour-mre-2022-08-18/

View attachment 35718

Renascor Resources (ASX:RNU) upgrades Siviour MRE​

ASX News, Mining


Jessica De Freitas Markets Reporter: jessica.defreitas@***************.com.au18 August 2022 11:24(
RNU wont have any permit problems. Like TLG the graphite is very close to the surface but nowhere near the TLG grade

This ain't reindeer country. Just more pretty dry land which looks like it cant even grow saltbush (?). Looks like the kangaroos have given up on that area too

And there are no holiday houses and............................... there is no f**king fish either

Drill as you please. Don't worry about water run off.................................there is no water LOL

I don't know why he looks like he is dancing. The nearest pub is miles away


There is nothing out there

 
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Diogenese

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RNU wont have any permit problems. Like TLG the graphite is very close to the surface but nowhere near the TLG grade

This ain't reindeer country. Just more pretty dry land which looks like it cant even grow saltbush (?). Looks like the kangaroos have given up on that area too

And there are no holiday houses and............................... there is no f**king fish either

Drill as you please. Don't worry about water run off.................................there is no water LOL

I don't know why he looks like he is dancing. The nearest pub is miles away


There is nothing out there

Well bushfires shouldn't be a problem ...
 
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Semmel

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What a great discussion so far! Thank you all for engaging, this is very interesting and shows how big my holes in understanding the market are :)

I love Talga for this very reason, tracking graphite stocks is not going to get you a true picture of what Talga is if you put it in lists like RK equity leaderboard and don't understand the difference. "Talga is a graphite technology company that just happens to own a world class deposit" Making money from Talga is not going to be about graphite mining, It's all about the finished product Anode. Not many others in the world will be doing it as green as us! #SleepingDragon.

Yes, I thing all of us are well aware that Talgas Si, additive and COATED Anode business flies under the radar completely. Though Si and additives are not proven yet and its understandable that they are not considered for company value (yet), but the potential is outstanding and unique in the world. However, the market ignores it, and treats Talga as only slightly more than a mining company. My intention is to understand market forces vs. Talga specific price actions. Thus, accepting a peer group of comparisons that focus on the mining aspect. Even though thats a misrepresentation of Talga as a company.

That leaderboard that you posted is great! Gives a good overview of similar companies :) Though, I am looking at something more frequent, like on a daily basis. I use google finance for this. See below.

Syrah is in Mozambique by the way

Syrah's current problem is that their main market was China and the bottom has fallen out of the market due to stockpiling and EV subsidies ending. That was providing some cashflow to keep the lights on whilst they built their US anode facility. So the order book has shrunk for the time being as has the price. It is not a long term market for them.

Syrah's future lies in anodes from its factory in Vidalia USA but it is not yet finished.

Australian Super (our largest pension fund) is Syrah's white knight providing another set of convertible notes to provide cashflow but being convertible it also is a diluter as you observed.

Syrah will be fine once they get their factory going

Ohh dear, the sieve that counts as my brain completely mixed up SYR and NMG. Wow thats embarresing. Granted, I was never really interested in either but when building a peer group, this shouldnt happen. Ups.

So will expand the peer group to RNU, NVX, SYR, MNG as the closest comparisons. Keeping an eye on VUL due to european mining connection. Google finance gives a good way to compare these companies:

tlg_peers.png


Link: https://www.google.com/finance/quot...son=ASX:NVX,ASX:SYR,ASX:RNU,CVE:NOU&window=1M
 
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cosors

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Question to the stock dwellers here.. i have trouble finding a peer group to Talga. As we know there is no alternative in Europe in terms of natural Graphite for batteries. But what company is the largest synthetic graphite producer in Europe? Anyone know?

If we look more broadly, I used to look at a number of companies to gauge if stock movements are specific to TLG or the broader market.. they all have issues now.


NVX: Emerging US company for synthetic graphite. In the gutter below 1 AUD, ATM was 11AUD about 1.5 years ago. Not sure of the reason, but probably over promised and under delivered. I dont know the details.

SYR: Emerging natural graphite producer in Canada, gearing towards spherical graphite particles but not coated as far as I know.. Its also in the gutter below 1AUD, max in recent years was 3AUD. I think they have some issues with the CEO and someone exercising convertable bonds which blew up the share count by 20% or something.

VUL: Emerging European lithium producer. Not graphite but operating in Europe and its trying to establish a mine (though for brine water in south Germany instead of a pit) to extract lithium from it. In many ways comparable with Talga because its something new and unique in Europe, its trying to extract resources and requires permits. Though its swimming on the lithium wave that didnt hit the graphite market (yet). They are in decline since quite some time and might drop another 20% as soon as they come out of the trading halt for issuing more shares.


All in all, thats the peer group that I was looking at in the past and ... all of them are in decline for some reason or other. Point is, they do not serve as peer group any longer. Does anyone know any other company in the graphite for batteries business outside China that might be comparable to Talga?

edit: The last version included AVZ but I mistook it for a graphite project, not a lithium one. Its not comparable to Talga.
But what company is the largest synthetic graphite producer in Europe? Anyone know?

"Chinese group Putailai to build Europe’s largest anode factory in Sweden​

The $1.3bn plant is the latest Asian-owned facility that has set up shop in the Nordic country

1683274859025.png

The Swedish start-up Northvolt will be the factory’s first main customer


YESTERDAY

A large Chinese supplier to the battery industry is investing $1.3bn in a Swedish factory in the latest sign of western countries deepening their reliance on the Chinese clean tech sector. Shanghai-listed Putailai is building Europe’s largest factory for manufacturing anodes, a crucial part of the batteries that go into electric vehicles, in Sundsvall in central Sweden where it will take advantage of the country’s abundant green electricity 😅😂🤣. Northvolt, the Swedish start-up that has become Europe’s leading player in batteries, will be the first main customer. People close to the company suggest that buying anodes from Sundsvall could cut its carbon footprint for the component by more than 90 per cent compared with importing them from China. Putailai is the latest and largest in a series of Asian suppliers that have set up shop in Sweden, with others including South Korea’s Dongjin and China’s Kedali near Northvolt’s first gigafactory in Skellefteå, and China’s Senior Material in Eskilstuna. “An important part of Northvolt’s strategy to create the world’s greenest battery is to invite subcontractors to produce materials and components on fossil-free electricity grids and in line with Europe’s high environmental standards,” said Alexander Streif, head of supply chain management at Northvolt. “PTL is a leading global manufacturer of anode materials and the establishment in Sweden will not only lower our batteries’ total carbon dioxide footprint but will likely also attract more actors in the battery ecosystem to establish themselves in the Nordics,” he said. Europe has made batteries one of the main focuses of its industrial policy, aiming to develop a homegrown sector to challenge the dominant Asian players. Anodes make up the second-biggest component market for electric vehicle batteries. Like much of the EV supply chain, production of the material is dominated almost exclusively by Chinese companies. PTL is among the four biggest Chinese groups in the sector that together account for roughly half the global market, according to Bernstein analysts. The company supplies artificial graphite, a material used to make anodes, to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery makers including CATL, LG and Samsung. As the industry trends towards synthetic anodes 🤔😅, which give better performance, PTL is strongly placed as the top synthetic anode producer in China. PTL’s entrance into the Swedish market is the latest in a series of deals between western companies and Chinese clean tech groups. CATL, the world’s biggest battery producer, signed a deal with Ford this year to license its battery technology to the US carmaker for the production of cells in Michigan. The Sundsvall factory will have an initial capacity of about 50,000 tonnes of anode material — equivalent to 50 gigawatt-hours of batteries, or enough to power about 850,000 cars — and aims to double that eventually. The plant will employ 1,900 workers when completed, making it the biggest of the newly established factories by Asian suppliers in Sweden. Yu Han, PTL’s chief representative in Europe and project manager for the Sundsvall plant, told the Financial Times the company had chosen Sweden because it “is the only European country to have a firm strategy for the green transition”. He added that PTL was “seriously considering” locations for further plants in Europe."
https://www.ft.com/content/80d34254-3e12-4fa7-8f02-fdceb1c2fa2e

With this, NV seems to be out.
But they have to go through the approval process as well. Good luck.
So dear Swedish antis. What do you say to this hammer. I'm sure they are the much better foreign exploiters and consumers of your already too scarce green electricity. Take this.
 
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cosors

👀

"Chinese group Putailai to build Europe’s largest anode factory in Sweden​

The $1.3bn plant is the latest Asian-owned facility that has set up shop in the Nordic country

View attachment 35732
The Swedish start-up Northvolt will be the factory’s first main customer


YESTERDAY

A large Chinese supplier to the battery industry is investing $1.3bn in a Swedish factory in the latest sign of western countries deepening their reliance on the Chinese clean tech sector. Shanghai-listed Putailai is building Europe’s largest factory for manufacturing anodes, a crucial part of the batteries that go into electric vehicles, in Sundsvall in central Sweden where it will take advantage of the country’s abundant green electricity 😅😂🤣. Northvolt, the Swedish start-up that has become Europe’s leading player in batteries, will be the first main customer. People close to the company suggest that buying anodes from Sundsvall could cut its carbon footprint for the component by more than 90 per cent compared with importing them from China. Putailai is the latest and largest in a series of Asian suppliers that have set up shop in Sweden, with others including South Korea’s Dongjin and China’s Kedali near Northvolt’s first gigafactory in Skellefteå, and China’s Senior Material in Eskilstuna. “An important part of Northvolt’s strategy to create the world’s greenest battery is to invite subcontractors to produce materials and components on fossil-free electricity grids and in line with Europe’s high environmental standards,” said Alexander Streif, head of supply chain management at Northvolt. “PTL is a leading global manufacturer of anode materials and the establishment in Sweden will not only lower our batteries’ total carbon dioxide footprint but will likely also attract more actors in the battery ecosystem to establish themselves in the Nordics,” he said. Europe has made batteries one of the main focuses of its industrial policy, aiming to develop a homegrown sector to challenge the dominant Asian players. Anodes make up the second-biggest component market for electric vehicle batteries. Like much of the EV supply chain, production of the material is dominated almost exclusively by Chinese companies. PTL is among the four biggest Chinese groups in the sector that together account for roughly half the global market, according to Bernstein analysts. The company supplies artificial graphite, a material used to make anodes, to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery makers including CATL, LG and Samsung. As the industry trends towards synthetic anodes 🤔😅, which give better performance, PTL is strongly placed as the top synthetic anode producer in China. PTL’s entrance into the Swedish market is the latest in a series of deals between western companies and Chinese clean tech groups. CATL, the world’s biggest battery producer, signed a deal with Ford this year to license its battery technology to the US carmaker for the production of cells in Michigan. The Sundsvall factory will have an initial capacity of about 50,000 tonnes of anode material — equivalent to 50 gigawatt-hours of batteries, or enough to power about 850,000 cars — and aims to double that eventually. The plant will employ 1,900 workers when completed, making it the biggest of the newly established factories by Asian suppliers in Sweden. Yu Han, PTL’s chief representative in Europe and project manager for the Sundsvall plant, told the Financial Times the company had chosen Sweden because it “is the only European country to have a firm strategy for the green transition”. He added that PTL was “seriously considering” locations for further plants in Europe."
https://www.ft.com/content/80d34254-3e12-4fa7-8f02-fdceb1c2fa2e

With this, NV seems to be out.
But they have to go through the approval process as well. Good luck.
So dear Swedish antis. What do you say to this hammer. I'm sure they are the much better foreign exploiters and consumers of your already too scarce green electricity. Take this.
Excuse me. I didn't mean to stifle the lively conversation.
We are at least 3 years ahead. Even if, contrary to expectations, they manage to submit their applications this year from the cold start I think they could start at the beginning of 2026 at the earliest. And in the end, the cake is still big enough.
The other companies mentioned near NV could be the answer to why we haven't heard from NV. But I haven't checked yet. Maybe you can have a look at them too. Moreover, NV is able to keep its head above water with its own anode production, it seems to me.
The other thought is that it is a false assumption or deception of investors that there is enough green electricity in Sweden. This is wrong. Sweden has a big energy problem that already exists. As often mentioned, 78% of all applications for wind power have been rejected last year and every wind turbine on Sami land is seen as an attack on their existence. I am not sure what the Swedes at large will say when the rare green energy will be used to bake oil residues at 2300C° for a fortnight to get what can be dug out of the ground further north.


I hope Talga knows about this new situation. Maybe one of you has contact. @Monkeymandan you mentioned that you had already passed on some info.

So what are your thoughts on this?
 
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Semmel

Top 20

"Chinese group Putailai to build Europe’s largest anode factory in Sweden​

The $1.3bn plant is the latest Asian-owned facility that has set up shop in the Nordic country

View attachment 35732
The Swedish start-up Northvolt will be the factory’s first main customer


YESTERDAY

A large Chinese supplier to the battery industry is investing $1.3bn in a Swedish factory in the latest sign of western countries deepening their reliance on the Chinese clean tech sector. Shanghai-listed Putailai is building Europe’s largest factory for manufacturing anodes, a crucial part of the batteries that go into electric vehicles, in Sundsvall in central Sweden where it will take advantage of the country’s abundant green electricity 😅😂🤣. Northvolt, the Swedish start-up that has become Europe’s leading player in batteries, will be the first main customer. People close to the company suggest that buying anodes from Sundsvall could cut its carbon footprint for the component by more than 90 per cent compared with importing them from China. Putailai is the latest and largest in a series of Asian suppliers that have set up shop in Sweden, with others including South Korea’s Dongjin and China’s Kedali near Northvolt’s first gigafactory in Skellefteå, and China’s Senior Material in Eskilstuna. “An important part of Northvolt’s strategy to create the world’s greenest battery is to invite subcontractors to produce materials and components on fossil-free electricity grids and in line with Europe’s high environmental standards,” said Alexander Streif, head of supply chain management at Northvolt. “PTL is a leading global manufacturer of anode materials and the establishment in Sweden will not only lower our batteries’ total carbon dioxide footprint but will likely also attract more actors in the battery ecosystem to establish themselves in the Nordics,” he said. Europe has made batteries one of the main focuses of its industrial policy, aiming to develop a homegrown sector to challenge the dominant Asian players. Anodes make up the second-biggest component market for electric vehicle batteries. Like much of the EV supply chain, production of the material is dominated almost exclusively by Chinese companies. PTL is among the four biggest Chinese groups in the sector that together account for roughly half the global market, according to Bernstein analysts. The company supplies artificial graphite, a material used to make anodes, to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery makers including CATL, LG and Samsung. As the industry trends towards synthetic anodes 🤔😅, which give better performance, PTL is strongly placed as the top synthetic anode producer in China. PTL’s entrance into the Swedish market is the latest in a series of deals between western companies and Chinese clean tech groups. CATL, the world’s biggest battery producer, signed a deal with Ford this year to license its battery technology to the US carmaker for the production of cells in Michigan. The Sundsvall factory will have an initial capacity of about 50,000 tonnes of anode material — equivalent to 50 gigawatt-hours of batteries, or enough to power about 850,000 cars — and aims to double that eventually. The plant will employ 1,900 workers when completed, making it the biggest of the newly established factories by Asian suppliers in Sweden. Yu Han, PTL’s chief representative in Europe and project manager for the Sundsvall plant, told the Financial Times the company had chosen Sweden because it “is the only European country to have a firm strategy for the green transition”. He added that PTL was “seriously considering” locations for further plants in Europe."
https://www.ft.com/content/80d34254-3e12-4fa7-8f02-fdceb1c2fa2e

With this, NV seems to be out.
But they have to go through the approval process as well. Good luck.
So dear Swedish antis. What do you say to this hammer. I'm sure they are the much better foreign exploiters and consumers of your already too scarce green electricity. Take this.

Thank you, that is valuable information. 50ktpa sounds like a formidable starting point for such a plant in Europe. I had hoped for a european company to be our most noticable competition, but seems again its going to be the chinese. Not the kind of company you want to see if you want to become independent of China for battery anodes. At least the production is in Europe, which is good. But Europe really needs to get its act together here.
 
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cosors

👀
Our somewhat confused Minister of Economics here in Germany spoke out against products from China that are supposed to serve the green transition while at the same time our Foreign Minister visited a wind power production facility in China. Vestax has largely outsourced production to China or is in the process of doing so. Our solar production, which was initially supported with billions, was also sold to China, as was the Transrapid. In view of this the demand of our Minister of Economics seems at least naïve and strange or oddly naïve. Be that as it may. China says to itself, then we'll just buy in directly with you and come to you. Then we can ignore a possible ban.
You Australians can understand very well what all this means. I have the feeling that the majority of Germans do not. We know that Volvo is Chinese. But that the great European hopeful Northvolt collaborates with the Chinese when there are other solutions and ways feels like betrayal to me. I will briefly think about whether Northvolt is dead for me.
And I am curious what Blinken in Lulea will say about this.
 
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Diogenese

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Our somewhat confused Minister of Economics here in Germany spoke out against products from China that are supposed to serve the green transition while at the same time our Foreign Minister visited a wind power production facility in China. Vestax has largely outsourced production to China or is in the process of doing so. Our solar production, which was initially supported with billions, was also sold to China, as was the Transrapid. In view of this, the demand of our Minister of Economics seems at least naïve and strange or oddly naïve. Be that as it may. China says to itself, then we'll just buy in directly with you and come to you. Then we can ignore a possible ban.
You Australians can understand very well what all this means. I have the feeling that the majority of Germans do not. We know that Volvo is Chinese. But that the great European hopeful Northvolt collaborates with the Chinese when there are other solutions and ways feels like betrayal to me. I will briefly think about whether Northvolt is dead for me.
And I am curious what Blinken in Lulea will say about this.
Well if the permits appeal gets to court, we can point to the alternative synthetic alternative as consuming tons of Swedish electricity and producing additional CO2 in Sweden.
 
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cosors

👀
...
In the flagship project of the European mobility revolution, of all things, we are not able or willing to pull it off ourselves, but instead let the Chinese buy in, and that before the global situation. I'm just disappointed if this turns out the way it seems. I'm thinking about the weekend whether I give up in spirit to believe in the matter. It is something completely different when a Chinese battery manufacturer sets up it's own production here. This is the first and largest European project in this sector. And NV means VW.

I am curious whether Northvolt and the politicians will be honest enough to reveal at the US-Europe trade summit in Lulea that the best showcase project is being realised with Chinese help. Right in the face of Blinken. That is my wish.
 
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What a great discussion so far! Thank you all for engaging, this is very interesting and shows how big my holes in understanding the market are :)



Yes, I thing all of us are well aware that Talgas Si, additive and COATED Anode business flies under the radar completely. Though Si and additives are not proven yet and its understandable that they are not considered for company value (yet), but the potential is outstanding and unique in the world. However, the market ignores it, and treats Talga as only slightly more than a mining company. My intention is to understand market forces vs. Talga specific price actions. Thus, accepting a peer group of comparisons that focus on the mining aspect. Even though thats a misrepresentation of Talga as a company.

That leaderboard that you posted is great! Gives a good overview of similar companies :) Though, I am looking at something more frequent, like on a daily basis. I use google finance for this. See below.



Ohh dear, the sieve that counts as my brain completely mixed up SYR and NMG. Wow thats embarresing. Granted, I was never really interested in either but when building a peer group, this shouldnt happen. Ups.

So will expand the peer group to RNU, NVX, SYR, MNG as the closest comparisons. Keeping an eye on VUL due to european mining connection. Google finance gives a good way to compare these companies:

View attachment 35730

Link: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/TLG:ASX?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-1aWW193-AhUKg_0HHRpODhMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&comparison=ASX:NVX,ASX:SYR,ASX:RNU,CVE:NOU&window=1M

Do you know a tool that helps to analyze market cap developments over time? I don't want to compare share prices only as amount of public shares can increase regularly.
 
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...
In the flagship project of the European mobility revolution, of all things, we are not able or willing to pull it off ourselves, but instead let the Chinese buy in, and that before the global situation. I'm just disappointed if this turns out the way it seems. I'm thinking about the weekend whether I give up in spirit to believe in the matter. It is something completely different when a Chinese battery manufacturer sets up it's own production here. This is the first and largest European project in this sector. And NV means VW.

I am curious whether Northvolt and the politicians will be honest enough to reveal at the US-Europe trade summit in Lulea that the best showcase project is being realised with Chinese help. Right in the face of Blinken. That is my wish.

The Chinese are years ahead of us in terms of battery development and production processes, so it was clear to me that the EU and the US would invite international companies to set up here and to accelerate the shift to EVs. Don't tell me you haven't seen this coming at all?

Should EU/US instead let battery manufacturers who don't want to or can't get their products from Talga or European producers die out, or rely solely on it's own countries getting its act together and permits running more smoothly in future? Also relatively young companies lika Talga still have somewhat immature products and insufficient skilled labour where it's not a guarantee that they can scale their production so easily. If Talga were such a strong "technology company", it would have started production long ago with foreign graphite without its own mining permits (maybe even outside of Sweden/Europe). Those things take time.

Moreover, none of us can rule out that there will not be breakthroughs in graphite-free or even anode-free batteries in the foreseeable future. Of course, with the continuing scarcity of certain metals, there might still be a strong demand for graphite anodes, but my understanding is that graphite is the most difficult/least recyclable material, so it might be safer and more consistent to push developments in other directions. We all follow Talga very closely and assume that Mark - with his strong expertise and connections into the industry - is always right about future developments, but all of us are strongely biased. ;)
 
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Semmel

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Do you know a tool that helps to analyze market cap developments over time? I don't want to compare share prices only as amount of public shares can increase regularly.

Unfortunately not. There is a python plugin to get share prices called yfinance. It accesses yahoo historical data. I have done that before and its quite convenient. There was a lot of data available, not sure about historic market cap values though
 

BlackBeak

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From my understanding most batteries are roughly 50 / 50 synthetic / anode? (I think it's closer to 60 / 40 at the moment, estimated to move to 40 / 60).

This is done because full synthetic is expensive, but high quality. Mix it in with some cheaper natural to bring down the cost (but also performance).

Maybe there's still a role for Talga to play.

Although Talgas natural anode performs similar to high quality synthetic, it doesn't mean manufacturers would jump ship to 100% natural, especially for a company that only has a pilot plant? We were already working with Long Time Technologies (?) on blending with synthetic for that reason?
 
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Semmel

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From my understanding most batteries are roughly 50 / 50 synthetic / anode? (I think it's closer to 60 / 40 at the moment, estimated to move to 40 / 60).

This is done because full synthetic is expensive, but high quality. Mix it in with some cheaper natural to bring down the cost (but also performance).

Maybe there's still a role for Talga to play.

Although Talgas natural anode performs similar to high quality synthetic, it doesn't mean manufacturers would jump ship to 100% natural, especially for a company that only has a pilot plant? We were already working with Long Time Technologies (?) on blending with synthetic for that reason?

Your first statement is true for blended natural graphite from China which comes from many different mines, which can be quite inconsistent. The trick is to make it stable with synthetic as the synthetic graphite is very consistent. So yes, you are sort of correct. Talgas product acts and is priced similar to synthetic graphite and might be blended with cheaper natural graphite from china. But I can also see it being used in isolation. Its not like "natural" or "synthetic" is a property that makes any sense on its own. Its the overall characteristics that are the deciding point. With Talgas great quality and good consistency, the blending game is not necessary.
 
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