TLG Discussion 2022
- Thread starter zeeb0t
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P
Pabs
Guest
The highest SP for TLG was the day before Morgan Stanley were hired as advisors. The share chat forum was a happy one with most people very friendly and sharing thoughts and information. But soon after MS were appointed it seemed those who were most positive on the stock were trolled relentlessly . No amount of asking for mods to intervene helped. Numerous requests and no action taken.
If your stock is subject to relentless downramping and intelligent responses are moderated. Look at what advisors have been appointed.
Probably an indication of if the stock is a buy or sell.
If your stock is subject to relentless downramping and intelligent responses are moderated. Look at what advisors have been appointed.
Probably an indication of if the stock is a buy or sell.
HIGHLIGHTS .... the ''we don't know the ends of it'' comment by MT re: the size of the deposit , this combined with Elon letting the cat out of the bag by having a whinge about tariffs gave great relief that we have the supply & we have the demand .
LOWLIGHTS .... 12 month flatline , given that a lot of comparable stocks have sky high valuations based purely on 'potential' . Secondly would have to be me throwing the timeline out the window & coming to the cold hard realization that this will take a lot longer than anticipated .
The first Anode kiln oven installed in Europe, largest high grade jorc in the world and 36 scientists researching graphite and its potential in high demand fields has me really liking this company !! Being in Sweden has and is causing issues around permits but that area is coming around nicely as Pads the ol Alcoholic from HC has already touched on. This year should put a lot of demands to bed re off takes, permits an funding
P
Pabs
Guest
The one thing that cannot be replicated over any period of time is the size and grade of resource. And the whole business will be built on that foundation.
I'm very much hoping the Board declare their hand in full. So 500m plus at around 30% contained. Maybe more.
The largest and highest. After that everything else can be built.
Given delays I am hoping we get confirmation of multiple expansions of Niska. Add the UK at 200k and we have Tal Si feasibility studies outstanding too. So 300k.to 500ktpa is reasonable as a planned 25/26 target. Remember you have 1mtpa demand enquiries for 2030.
Worth the wait IMO
I'm very much hoping the Board declare their hand in full. So 500m plus at around 30% contained. Maybe more.
The largest and highest. After that everything else can be built.
Given delays I am hoping we get confirmation of multiple expansions of Niska. Add the UK at 200k and we have Tal Si feasibility studies outstanding too. So 300k.to 500ktpa is reasonable as a planned 25/26 target. Remember you have 1mtpa demand enquiries for 2030.
Worth the wait IMO
Came across a reference to Stellantis and Mercedes investing in solid state battery maker Factorial Energy in the US.
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...id-state-Batteries-for-Electric-Vehicles.html
Based in Woburn, Massachusetts, Factorial Energy has developed breakthrough solid-state batteries that offer up to 50 percent longer range per charge, increased safety, and cost competitive with conventional lithium-ion batteries. The company’s proprietary FEST™ (Factorial Electrolyte System Technology) leverages a solid electrolyte material, which enables safe and reliable cell performance with high-capacity cathode and anode materials. FEST™’s electrolyte has been successfully scaled in 40Ah cells, works at room temperature, and can utilize the majority of existing lithium-ion battery manufacturing equipment. The company has received strategic investments from, and entered into Joint Collaboration Agreements with, Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis, Hyundai Motor Company and Kia Corporation. More information can be found at www.factorialenergy.com.
They claim 20% to 50% improvement in battery capacity using a solid state battery.
I did a patent search for Factorial battery patents and only got 1 hit for an application filed in Taiwan. The patent relates to cathode material rather than electrolyte.
The patent does not appear to be filed anywhere else.
The patent does not discuss the composition of the anode.
TW201940431A Nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery anode material,
A coated nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery cathode material, comprising: a nickel-cobalt-aluminate material and a coating material coated on the surface of the nickel-cobalt-aluminum The chemical formula of lithium ion battery cathode material is shown in formula (I): (LiaNi1-x-yCoxAly)1-bMbO2 (I), a, b, x, y are mole fractions, x⟩0, y⟩0,1 -xy⟩0, 1≤a≤1.1, 0⟨b≤0.02; M is selected from one or more of alkali metal elements, alkaline earth metal elements, group 13 elements, group 14 elements, transition metal elements and rare earth elements.
A lithium ion battery, comprising: a positive electrode, a negative electrode, an electrolyte, and a separator, wherein the positive electrode includes the nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium-ion battery positive electrode material according to any one of claims 1 to 11, or through A nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery cathode material
Inventors: REN DONG[CN]; FANG YAN [CN]; SHEN YUN [CN]
As Factorial is a private company, there is scant information available on their web page.
But then I found:
https://business.cornell.edu/hub/20...g-factorial-energy-new-lightning-new-bottles/
...
She studied chemistry at Uppsala University before attaining her PhD in chemistry at Cornell in 2012, before going on to found Lionano, a company focused on improving the components within lithium-ion batteries.
Lionano has several patents for batteries, and there is an overlap in the named inventors, so it looks like Factorial derived from Lionano.
This si the most recent Lionano patent application. The unwelcome bit is "anode-free".
US2021020986A1 ELECTROLYTE, ANODE-FREE RECHARGEABLE BATTERY,
the present disclosure encompasses methods of making an anode-free rechargeable battery. The method includes at least the following steps. A pre-assembled cell with an anode current collector and a cathode is formed. A mixture of liquid electrolyte and monomer or polymer in a liquid phase of the electrolyte is introduced into the pre-assembled cell. Then, a thermal gelation process is performed to form the anode-free rechargeable battery.
...
the anode current collector is pre-lithiated to compensate for Li loss during cycling.
So the question is what is an anode-free anode current collector? Is this just a copper sheet?
...
The anode material may be a conducting material. Non-limiting examples of the conducting materials include conducting carbon materials, tin and its alloys, tin/carbon, tin/cobalt alloys, silicon/carbon materials, and the like. Non-limiting examples of the conducing carbon materials include graphite, hard carbon porous hollow carbon spheres and tubes (e.g., carbon nanotubes), and the like.
So the patent does not necessarily exclude graphite anodes.
[Thinks - did we look at this in another place?]
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...id-state-Batteries-for-Electric-Vehicles.html
Based in Woburn, Massachusetts, Factorial Energy has developed breakthrough solid-state batteries that offer up to 50 percent longer range per charge, increased safety, and cost competitive with conventional lithium-ion batteries. The company’s proprietary FEST™ (Factorial Electrolyte System Technology) leverages a solid electrolyte material, which enables safe and reliable cell performance with high-capacity cathode and anode materials. FEST™’s electrolyte has been successfully scaled in 40Ah cells, works at room temperature, and can utilize the majority of existing lithium-ion battery manufacturing equipment. The company has received strategic investments from, and entered into Joint Collaboration Agreements with, Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis, Hyundai Motor Company and Kia Corporation. More information can be found at www.factorialenergy.com.
They claim 20% to 50% improvement in battery capacity using a solid state battery.
I did a patent search for Factorial battery patents and only got 1 hit for an application filed in Taiwan. The patent relates to cathode material rather than electrolyte.
The patent does not appear to be filed anywhere else.
The patent does not discuss the composition of the anode.
TW201940431A Nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery anode material,
A coated nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery cathode material, comprising: a nickel-cobalt-aluminate material and a coating material coated on the surface of the nickel-cobalt-aluminum The chemical formula of lithium ion battery cathode material is shown in formula (I): (LiaNi1-x-yCoxAly)1-bMbO2 (I), a, b, x, y are mole fractions, x⟩0, y⟩0,1 -xy⟩0, 1≤a≤1.1, 0⟨b≤0.02; M is selected from one or more of alkali metal elements, alkaline earth metal elements, group 13 elements, group 14 elements, transition metal elements and rare earth elements.
A lithium ion battery, comprising: a positive electrode, a negative electrode, an electrolyte, and a separator, wherein the positive electrode includes the nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium-ion battery positive electrode material according to any one of claims 1 to 11, or through A nickel-cobalt-aluminum ternary lithium ion battery cathode material
Inventors: REN DONG[CN]; FANG YAN [CN]; SHEN YUN [CN]
As Factorial is a private company, there is scant information available on their web page.
But then I found:
https://business.cornell.edu/hub/20...g-factorial-energy-new-lightning-new-bottles/
Introducing Factorial’s new solid-state lithium-ion battery
Step forward, Siyu Huang, MS ’11, PhD ’13, MBA ’14, founder and CEO of Factorial Energy, which develops solid-state batteries for EVs. In April this year, Factorial came out of stealth mode after some six or seven years of research and development of their first product, unveiling a 40-amp-hour solid-state battery cell....
She studied chemistry at Uppsala University before attaining her PhD in chemistry at Cornell in 2012, before going on to found Lionano, a company focused on improving the components within lithium-ion batteries.
Lionano has several patents for batteries, and there is an overlap in the named inventors, so it looks like Factorial derived from Lionano.
This si the most recent Lionano patent application. The unwelcome bit is "anode-free".
US2021020986A1 ELECTROLYTE, ANODE-FREE RECHARGEABLE BATTERY,
Applicants
LIONANO SE INC [US]Inventors
SHEN LUXI [US]; HUANG PEISHEN [US]; REN DONG[US]the present disclosure encompasses methods of making an anode-free rechargeable battery. The method includes at least the following steps. A pre-assembled cell with an anode current collector and a cathode is formed. A mixture of liquid electrolyte and monomer or polymer in a liquid phase of the electrolyte is introduced into the pre-assembled cell. Then, a thermal gelation process is performed to form the anode-free rechargeable battery.
...
the anode current collector is pre-lithiated to compensate for Li loss during cycling.
So the question is what is an anode-free anode current collector? Is this just a copper sheet?
...
The anode material may be a conducting material. Non-limiting examples of the conducting materials include conducting carbon materials, tin and its alloys, tin/carbon, tin/cobalt alloys, silicon/carbon materials, and the like. Non-limiting examples of the conducing carbon materials include graphite, hard carbon porous hollow carbon spheres and tubes (e.g., carbon nanotubes), and the like.
So the patent does not necessarily exclude graphite anodes.
[Thinks - did we look at this in another place?]
cosors
👀
Highlights: I came across Talga via the only graphene plant in Germany. At some point, MT shifted the leverage from graphene towards anodes and the fast-growing battery market. Talga has the most beautiful and best resource in the world and in a place that is close to the action. No transports halfway around the world, hell the prices! And for us, heaven the margins! At the right time for the right cause. It's as exciting as a thriller and a social study. You can find an example in the permit thread. Nor is it a distant investment. If it works, it's good for me and for all of us.
Lowlights: As some know, I was one of the first to come over disturbed with an article by activists in the HC forum. Since then it has become clear to me where the problem lies and it has nothing to do with solid or NG vs SG. What annoys me most is how much narrow-minded people can destroy and decide over everyone and that with a 4% minority who are now no longer even in government. I have read masses of articles and contributions to understand the kind of people. I think this can help me universally in my home country. This trip was very disturbing, extremely unpleasant and always the thought: Jesus, an adult human being can't be serious! They are doing exactly the opposite of what they are fighting for. But I think the darkness of the tunnel has been crossed and it is getting brighter and brighter. The damage in the bureaucracy must be repaired.
...and the equally mindless permanent downramping over there very unpleasant.
Lowlights: As some know, I was one of the first to come over disturbed with an article by activists in the HC forum. Since then it has become clear to me where the problem lies and it has nothing to do with solid or NG vs SG. What annoys me most is how much narrow-minded people can destroy and decide over everyone and that with a 4% minority who are now no longer even in government. I have read masses of articles and contributions to understand the kind of people. I think this can help me universally in my home country. This trip was very disturbing, extremely unpleasant and always the thought: Jesus, an adult human being can't be serious! They are doing exactly the opposite of what they are fighting for. But I think the darkness of the tunnel has been crossed and it is getting brighter and brighter. The damage in the bureaucracy must be repaired.
...and the equally mindless permanent downramping over there very unpleasant.
P
Pabs
Guest
Thanks for sharing, my view on Oil and Gas are well known. The Russia/Ukraine situation is a perfect backdrop to open the eyes of people that we need energy independence from Russia. This supports the Decarbonisation efforts. I expect this narrative and the urgency to support TLG position.
Further new article in Sweden from researchers supporting responsible mining.
And a new Minister clearly stating we will have more mines. Very rare to have a politician be clear and make himself accountable.
Yes the situation is much more supportive.
P.S the TLG newsletter states it will mine 100ktpa initially which is less than a day of mining in already approved copper mines. Staggering how helpful it is to have such a high % of ore.
Further new article in Sweden from researchers supporting responsible mining.
And a new Minister clearly stating we will have more mines. Very rare to have a politician be clear and make himself accountable.
Yes the situation is much more supportive.
P.S the TLG newsletter states it will mine 100ktpa initially which is less than a day of mining in already approved copper mines. Staggering how helpful it is to have such a high % of ore.
P
Pabs
Guest
Very helpful. I think we need to separate current tech and future tech. Most factories are being designed for production on current machinery with a Graphite Andor and Ternary Cathode. Pouch, Prismatic or Roll to Roll. The purpose I think is to use current equipment and optimise for cost and performance trying to ride the cost curve down using wright's law etc. With a few hundred factories being built and the urgency to decarbonise and now be energy independent. There is no time for novel solutions. These factories will run for 30 years I guess. I will sell some shares in 5 to 10 years. With comments from MT on Tal Si I think we may have very large volumes there also. And we have Tal X , E and Graphene applications to add.
Let's hope we move to the new phase of comms in March. The factories have to be built and Batterries deployed. Just a matter of time.
P
Pabs
Guest
Volta trucks planning 5k electric trucks in 2023, only local supply is Talga and Northolt. I remember MT saying he met with a truck company who wanted anodes for trucks in 2022. I think it was in Rockyarns podcast.
voltatrucks.com
Volta Trucks - Press - Volta Trucks confirms €230 million of Series C funding as it prepares the full-electric Volta Zero for production
Volta Trucks confirms €230 million of Series C funding as it prepares the full-electric Volta Zero for production
voltatrucks.com
Hey pabs in the most recent announcement MT states that the permit for 100k/tpa is going well and once approved they will look at our 400ktpa permit so it’s not unreasonable to think 25/26 and then chuck in the 200ktpa talnode Si plant in pommy land and one starts to see just how big and how quick this could really go
P
Pabs
Guest
I work backwards from the demand profile not what MT has submitted. In fact I think MT is keeping the scale quiet. If we have 40 factories running in 25/26 needing 1.25mtpa. As we are the only anode supplier, take the 200k for UK and 50% of the rest and its nearer 700k. Crazy numbers, but it does point to the scale of what will be done. Most importantly we have the contained graphite also.
You will be aware that based in Niska 100ktpa of anode is worth around $5bn. I'll leave you to work out the rest.
cosors
👀
Once again a reminder:
It's about the status of critical raw materials and the urgency of production in view of the Ukraine conflict. As if pointing a finger directly at us, graphite is always mentioned first when it comes to what Sweden can contribute.
"28 February 2022
Ukraine conflict highlights dependence on imports of critical raw materials
Europe is heavily dependent on imports of raw materials that are critical to our society and well-being. In many cases, these raw materials come from countries involved in conflicts, making supply very vulnerable. According to the EU, production in Europe must increase.
The map below shows the global production of various critical raw materials. Russian sources include nickel, vanadium and platinum group metals, such as palladium, used in car catalytic converters.
The needs and demand for critical raw materials are expected to increase dramatically in the future. New energy technologies such as solar cells, electricity grids and biofuels will require large quantities of rare earth metals, cobalt and ruthenium, for example.
The European Commission therefore considers that increased mining in Europe is necessary. European mining can progressively secure supplies of certain critical minerals and metals while limiting dependence on imports. Within Europe's borders there are a significant number of deposits of critical raw materials, including in Sweden. In Sweden we have known deposits of graphite, cobalt, lithium, vanadium, rare earths and tungsten, among others. A recent report from the Nordic Council of Ministers shows this great potential for extracting critical metals and minerals in the Nordic region, but also the need for investment in new surveys and research."
https://www.sgu.se/om-sgu/nyheter/2...fokus-pa-importberoendet-av-kritiska-ravaror/
https://www.sgu.se/om-sgu/nyheter/2...fts-i-ny-rapport-fran-nordiska-ministerradet/
It's about the status of critical raw materials and the urgency of production in view of the Ukraine conflict. As if pointing a finger directly at us, graphite is always mentioned first when it comes to what Sweden can contribute.
"28 February 2022
Ukraine conflict highlights dependence on imports of critical raw materials
Europe is heavily dependent on imports of raw materials that are critical to our society and well-being. In many cases, these raw materials come from countries involved in conflicts, making supply very vulnerable. According to the EU, production in Europe must increase.
The map below shows the global production of various critical raw materials. Russian sources include nickel, vanadium and platinum group metals, such as palladium, used in car catalytic converters.
The needs and demand for critical raw materials are expected to increase dramatically in the future. New energy technologies such as solar cells, electricity grids and biofuels will require large quantities of rare earth metals, cobalt and ruthenium, for example.
The European Commission therefore considers that increased mining in Europe is necessary. European mining can progressively secure supplies of certain critical minerals and metals while limiting dependence on imports. Within Europe's borders there are a significant number of deposits of critical raw materials, including in Sweden. In Sweden we have known deposits of graphite, cobalt, lithium, vanadium, rare earths and tungsten, among others. A recent report from the Nordic Council of Ministers shows this great potential for extracting critical metals and minerals in the Nordic region, but also the need for investment in new surveys and research."
https://www.sgu.se/om-sgu/nyheter/2...fokus-pa-importberoendet-av-kritiska-ravaror/
https://www.sgu.se/om-sgu/nyheter/2...fts-i-ny-rapport-fran-nordiska-ministerradet/
P
Pabs
Guest
Thanks for your continued helpful research. Clearly the pressure is building
P
Pabs
Guest
Anyone know how Beach is being protected and promoted by Hotcrapper. Should have had the account suspended numerous times.
Very clear that the agenda is being promoted. They work with companies to screw with SP.
Can't believe MT would screw around with his retail shareholders.
Any idea who is running beach and what is the agenda.
If read correctly, it's actually a subtle well informed pump of TLG. But should have been moderated numerous times.
Very clear that the agenda is being promoted. They work with companies to screw with SP.
Can't believe MT would screw around with his retail shareholders.
Any idea who is running beach and what is the agenda.
If read correctly, it's actually a subtle well informed pump of TLG. But should have been moderated numerous times.
@cosors ... I went to reply to your post & didn't remove it before responding to Pabs , apologies for the confusion .
@Pabs .... I Initially dismissed it as just another downramper but now believe it could be a capper . Either large players themselves or on someone's payroll given how hard they're going at it , not that I think HC can shape the market but someone obviously thinks they can .
I'm no linguist but I can pick up 2 people operating from the same account (with one at times severely lacking in the grammar department )
Anything but ''dumb'' , extremely well researched / informed & hitting the forum hard day & night 7 days a week . Extreme baiting designed to draw you into ''the valley of death'' . Without wanting to give them any credit .... highly engineered (imo) .
Yes , virtually immune to moderation . I myself have hammered the mods hard but politely over the course of a day to no avail . Unquestionably allowed free run of the place by those in a position to allow it .
Anyway , that's why I came here ..... to get away from the BS .
Edit .... I noticed a few slip ups today & can draw parallels between Beach & another HC member . May or may not be anything sinister behind their motivation but definitely unhinged at the very least .
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With what's happening over at VRC giving new meaning to ''sovereign risk'' & recent events bringing security of supply to the forefront , I'd say Europe (led by Germany) will have to rethink its energy market (as well as their alliances ) .
A potential recession in Russia also brings with it the real risk of taking everyone else along for the ride , so without making light of the situation , definitely a wake up call & bodes well for TLG as I would suspect pressure on Sweden now coming not just from industry but from a ''higher power'' .
Semmel
Top 20
Per HC, new announcement:
Drill results to upgrade Europe's largest graphite resource
I have no idea how to access the document before they release it. Talgas web page doesnt have it yet but it always seem some poeple know where to find it ahead of time. Anyway, do we copy the HC tradition and open a new thread for this once the document can be linked?
A new thread will automatically open soon.
Semmel
Top 20
Thx zeeb0t
Didnt know we are interesting enough to gain your attention. Its a nice little corner of the Internet you have here. Thx for setting this up.Similar threads
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