TLG Ann: Talga and ACC graphite anode offtake update - 30th Nov 2022, 8:15am

Biggest load of bull crap ever 3 years on the bounce.. Feed the public investors what they want to hear... Drain more money... Tell your mates the deal ain't happening at the private agm 's and they pull the money out cash in on another earner and keep the rest scratching their heads on exactly what and why even have an mou or loi, then realise its all hot air. Every year dissapointment still all just words. Markmatesmakemoney at xmas
 
What’s his latest alias?
Speaking of the Devil just above .............LOL

There are suddenly a number of new posters with zero history posting the usual MT conspiracy theories of ""MT with his mates plus the usual insiders that MT told blah........blah..........blah......insider trading.....blah............ blah.............. blah.......snake oil salesman..............blah............ blah.............. blah..."

tired star trek GIF
 
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anbuck

Regular
I hear you but I learnt long ago to only set deadlines where you are in 100% control of the workflow to get to the deadline and if the deadline is missed............ blame someone else.

When I was working for ASX companies our "deadline announcements" amounted to ...

Having already agreed on the wording of the intended agreement we at ABC Limited will be in a position to execute the agreement with XYZ Limited on 30 November 1995 after having completed our due diligence subject to XYZ Limited being in the same position

Due Diligence
impacted on my area so I always insisted on having adequate manpower and time so no excuses.

That's just how it used to work

Simples
People seem to be treating a deadline as a blood contract and missing a deadline as a some sort of betrayal or character flaw. If missing a deadline is treated as unacceptable, things will move very slowly because deadlines will be set very conservatively and that will cause a lack of pressure for things to move quickly. It's not a coincidence that Tesla is one of the fastest moving companies in the world and also infamous for missing deadlines.
 
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TentCity

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Watch those same investors currently calling for his head flip on a dime when Talga announce the first graphite anode offtake deal that has a floating price mechanism to ensure Talga shareholders benefit from the projected upside in price!

I would fully expect ACC to pushback/bully Talga as much as possible to beat the little Aussie small cap stock into submission on this and extract terms more favourable for themselves akin to what Tesla did with Syrah. However, we know whilst Mark might not be great at meeting his own deadlines, he is incredibly considered in his decision making and will not enter into an agreement that is not in his own interest as the 2nd largest shareholder. If this takes longer than Nov 30, then that’s fine by me as i intend to hold indefinitely. Only the traders and those with limited patience will jump up and down and not see the bigger picture.
 
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What’s his latest alias?
Why the sad emoji ?
I was referring to the poster below you not you JoMo
Geoff Ramsey No GIF by Rooster Teeth
 
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Watch those same investors currently calling for his head flip on a dime when Talga announce the first graphite anode offtake deal that has a floating price mechanism to ensure Talga shareholders benefit from the projected upside in price!

I would fully expect ACC to pushback/bully Talga as much as possible to beat the little Aussie small cap stock into submission on this and extract terms more favourable for themselves akin to what Tesla did with Syrah. However, we know whilst Mark might not be great at meeting his own deadlines, he is incredibly considered in his decision making and will not enter into an agreement that is not in his own interest as the 2nd largest shareholder. If this takes longer than Nov 30, then that’s fine by me as i intend to hold indefinitely. Only the traders and those with limited patience will jump up and down and not see the bigger picture.
I tend to agree. ACC need us for Supply. We don't need them on their preferred Price although it would be nice to have them onboard. Maybe TLG is a bit early (by a matter of months) in the Pricing/Supply Deficit Curve to get the Floating Price Mechanism we want.


All I Want Success GIF by Graduation
 
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JoMo68

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Why the sad emoji ?
I was referring to the poster below you not you JoMo
Geoff Ramsey No GIF by Rooster Teeth
😂 I know it wasn’t directed at me. I was sad at the ongoing antics of our ‘friend’.
 
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Speaking of the Devil just above .............LOL

There are suddenly a number of new posters with zero history posting the usual MT conspiracy theories of ""MT with his mates plus the usual insiders that MT told blah........blah..........blah......insider trading.....blah............ blah.............. blah.......snake oil salesman..............blah............ blah.............. blah..."

tired star trek GIF
Yep just another delay another agm but thats fine marks mates make money.
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Thats where you will find the monkeys.
 
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Coolbeans

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Watch those same investors currently calling for his head flip on a dime when Talga announce the first graphite anode offtake deal that has a floating price mechanism to ensure Talga shareholders benefit from the projected upside in price!

I would fully expect ACC to pushback/bully Talga as much as possible to beat the little Aussie small cap stock into submission on this and extract terms more favourable for themselves akin to what Tesla did with Syrah. However, we know whilst Mark might not be great at meeting his own deadlines, he is incredibly considered in his decision making and will not enter into an agreement that is not in his own interest as the 2nd largest shareholder. If this takes longer than Nov 30, then that’s fine by me as i intend to hold indefinitely. Only the traders and those with limited patience will jump up and down and not see the bigger picture.
MT and his mates made money Monday has been the noise! Nothing else. Nice distraction tho mate.
 

TentCity

Regular
MT and his mates made money Monday has been the noise! Nothing else. Nice distraction tho mate.
Yep, the imaginary Talga Perth Pump Gang (TPPG) in action again, which you accused me of being part of last time, when I’m based on the East Coast! I also have only ever bought Talga shares and never sold a single one across multiple holdings……but let’s not let facts get in the way of your conspiracy theories!

So what if a few traders sold some TLG shares after the share price ran up ~50% from the cap raise price…..that’s what traders do. I’m personally not interested in short term trading, but rather what this company would be worth in full production >100,000tpa - a heck of a lot more than flipping a few cap raise shares I’m certain.

Try and keep your eyes on the prize as Talga is so close to the major inflection points early next year with a decision on permits and financing, that will make all of this discussion a moot point.
 
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BigDog

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So the sp went south last Monday for whatever reason, some (at least 1) not myself, believe this was due to insider knowledge.

Is todays’s sp rise also attributed to insider knowledge? If so, the use of “shortly” when referring to how much longer they needed to finalize the contract terms is just that, ie days/weeks, not months.

Perhaps we are in for a nice week this or next week.
 
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Yep, the imaginary Talga Perth Pump Gang (TPPG) in action again,
Memo to self.

Never ever give @TentCity any money for one of his infamous Perth Pump Gang (TPPG) schemes.

The idiots sell out too early:)

Common Sense Monkey GIF by Travis
part idiots GIF
work idiots GIF
 
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TentCity

Regular
Memo to self.

Never ever give @TentCity any money for one of his infamous Perth Pump Gang (TPPG) schemes.

The idiots sell out too early:)

Common Sense Monkey GIF by Travis
part idiots GIF
work idiots GIF
Haha - Mark just rang and said deals off with ACC - so sell down tomorrow and short to make some big bucks and purchase a yacht to sail around Rottnest Island ;)

I’m planning to send Ursula von der Leylen a Christmas card for her speech yesterday basically stating that Europe has no appetite for a trade war with the USA over the Inflation Reduction Act……so if you can’t beat them, join them!! Fast tracking permits and hopefully that means Talga’s ability to expand well past the proposed Niska expansion might not be a pipe dream after all!

Maybe….just maybe at the risk of being a little greedy, there may be more in the kitty for Talga to tap into beyond the European Investment Bank’s 300 million Euro loan. I wonder if they will consider large grants the likes of which Syrah and Novonix received.

Either way, I think Talga will be a beneficiary for initial expansion in Europe and I bet my left bollock they will announce some anode expansion plans in Nth America alongside ACC or other future customers.

Also, Gvan’s tweets of the Swedish Deputy Prime Minister glowing endorsement of new mining projects in Northern Sweden is very welcome and bodes well for support of this project!

Just the tip of the iceberg and I ain’t selling anytime soon!!
 
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Haha - Mark just rang and said deals off with ACC - so sell down tomorrow and short to make some big bucks and purchase a yacht to sail around Rottnest Island ;)
Say Hello to these guys

Hungry U Mad GIF
 
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Semmel

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Well.. 1 week 'shortly' is gone.. one more week to go before it becomes awkward.

(Anyone ever noticed how awkward the word 'awkward' is? With a letter sequence of wkw in the middle.. looks awkward.)
 
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Vigdorian

Regular
Well.. 1 week 'shortly' is gone.. one more week to go before it becomes awkward.

(Anyone ever noticed how awkward the word 'awkward' is? With a letter sequence of wkw in the middle.. looks awkward.)
I agree. I’m just about ready for that resource upgrade .
 
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I agree. I’m just about ready for that resource upgrade .
Same as normal, take the attention from the delay.. Onto gap fillers.
 
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Semmel

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Lets talk a bit real now. I dont want to be all positive for the purpose of feel better and I dont want to be all negative either because of frustration or whatever. But my duty as a shareholder is see the things that are there, not that I want to be there.

So lets see the mid- and far future first. Talga is the only (potenial) european anode manufacture of considerable volume. Others might produce graphite flake but not coated anode. There might be artificial anode producers, but they are low volume and I dont see them spooling up production anywhere. The european union is trying to get away from Chinas dominance in this market, as they should be, which puts a strong, constant push on Talga. Politically, Talga is running in open doors.
Even environmentally (save for some NIMBYs), Talga is supporting the transition away from fossil fuels with their product to support stationary energy storage and mobility. Depending on customers of course, but its clear that they do. Their product is proven to be in a league of its own in terms of CO2 emission. Which puts another big push into Talgas sails. So the reason I invested in Talga in the first place, and the makro environment couldnt be better.

Same goes for political development in Sweden. We have a massive change in centiment towards new mines. Now this is not as big of a positive as it should be baseline regardless of the mine that is going to open. But the approval of the iron mine next door just gives the final confidence in permits being granted. I would say there is a less than 5% chance of not granted. There is also a 100% chance of this decision being appealed but again a near 100% chance of the appeal being unsuccessful. I am VERY confident that Talgas 19.5ktpa mine is going to happen. Talgas future is bright.

Lets go to the short term, and the contract with ACC. The fact that the negotiations with ACC are as advanced as they are is proof of the quality of Talnode-C. That, in it self, is a very positive outcome of the ACC situation which does not depend on signing the contract. Though on the material content of the negotiations, the signing of an off-take agreement, I wasnt very convinced of the announcement because Talga had already a track record of not closing negotiations positively. See here:
I dont wan to be a party pooper, but Ill believe it when I see it. Not getting excited for this yet due to past experiences.
It wasnt a particular popular opinion at the time but here we are. The criticism was I should look at the big picture and why so negative? Guys, I am not negative in general. As proven by the text above which is purely there for you to see that I am not all negative. So with that out the way, I can talk about my opinion on the process at hand.

Initially, when the non binding offtake was announced, I gave the contract a 50% probability of materializing. I didnt say so publically here, because the forum tends to like rallying-the-troops point of views rather than sober opinion. However, I wasnt really convinced. That 50% reduced to 20% positive the Friday before (I beleave November 25th). It dropped further to 10% after Monday came and went without a word. I found the selloff on Monday before the due date on the 30th entirely logical. Many think someone tipped off the insiders, but thats just tinfoil hat territory. It might have been the case, but the market can be explained entirely by using your brain without secret whisper talk.

The negotiations could have resulted in a signed contract at any time between the initial announcement and November 30th. However, a delay can only come the final day or the day before the 30th. Talga would not announce a delay of the negotiations like .. 1 week in advance. Why should they? It could still happen before. So that means, if you look at the big picture of this contract, the longer no contract is signed, the less likely it becomes that it is signed by the end of the announced period and a delay or flat out end of the negotiations becomes more likely. Hence the selloff of at Monday.

It appears at the time, that the non-binding announcement was made in order to boost the share price for the CR that we all knew had to come. I rather have a CR at a higher share price than a lower one, so its not like I disapprove entirely of the strategy, but its not nice to be in this situation either. Lets face it, if you want to make a deal, you make a deal. You dont publicly announce you are making a deal, maybe, possibly, have faith in us, we totally didnt tell you this because we wanted to boost the share price.

Now we are in a new situation. Talga said, that we should expect a result 'shortly'. On an initial time scale of ~8 weeks, 'shortly' certainly means a small fraction of the initial time period. I interpret this as 2 weeks. My expectation of the contract being signed, at all, sits at around 50% contract, 20% long delay, 30% walk away. And its going to drop fast starting at the end of the 2 weeks 'shortly' period. So if we dont here anything by December 14th, my expectation is going to be: 30% contract, 10% long delay 60% walk away. If nothing by Christmas, its going to be at 10% contract, 0% long delay, 90% walk away.

As a result of this and past contract negotiations (LKAB, Freyr, comes to mind), I give non binding agreements very little value. I know LKAB would probably be bad if they were involved, but then, why start an MOU in the first place? Also we dont have any material contract with Mitsui either. Mark is sometimes named "master negotiator".. I dont buy that. I have never interacted with him, so I dont know whether he is good at negotiating.. but .. if he truely was a master negotuator, he would close deals and not fail them. He wouldnt need to flash a graphite Tesla, but make a contract. He would only advance deal negotiations to a point of MOU that would ultimately be positive for Talga.

Lets face it, on the customer or partner level contract front, Talga is not great. Which is why I will give very little value to any future or existing non-binding agreements. I dont think Mitsui adds any value to Talga a this point for instance. More likely than not, they are already gone. Development as coating additive for ship paint? Probably a nothing burger. Graphene for concrete? Probably 0 value.

To end on a good note, the battery development on the other hand has great potential. Talnode-Si is much more scalable than Talnode-C as it does not depend on the mine as much. It probably primarily uses graphene, which might be produced from a byproduct of the mine material processing, or being sourced from somewhere else. Same as the cathode additive. These developments have high potential and impact on Talga as they are not priced in yet. But lets not put the cart before the horse.. lets see these contracts first, in binding form.
 
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TentCity

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Lets talk a bit real now. I dont want to be all positive for the purpose of feel better and I dont want to be all negative either because of frustration or whatever. But my duty as a shareholder is see the things that are there, not that I want to be there.

So lets see the mid- and far future first. Talga is the only (potenial) european anode manufacture of considerable volume. Others might produce graphite flake but not coated anode. There might be artificial anode producers, but they are low volume and I dont see them spooling up production anywhere. The european union is trying to get away from Chinas dominance in this market, as they should be, which puts a strong, constant push on Talga. Politically, Talga is running in open doors.
Even environmentally (save for some NIMBYs), Talga is supporting the transition away from fossil fuels with their product to support stationary energy storage and mobility. Depending on customers of course, but its clear that they do. Their product is proven to be in a league of its own in terms of CO2 emission. Which puts another big push into Talgas sails. So the reason I invested in Talga in the first place, and the makro environment couldnt be better.

Same goes for political development in Sweden. We have a massive change in centiment towards new mines. Now this is not as big of a positive as it should be baseline regardless of the mine that is going to open. But the approval of the iron mine next door just gives the final confidence in permits being granted. I would say there is a less than 5% chance of not granted. There is also a 100% chance of this decision being appealed but again a near 100% chance of the appeal being unsuccessful. I am VERY confident that Talgas 19.5ktpa mine is going to happen. Talgas future is bright.

Lets go to the short term, and the contract with ACC. The fact that the negotiations with ACC are as advanced as they are is proof of the quality of Talnode-C. That, in it self, is a very positive outcome of the ACC situation which does not depend on signing the contract. Though on the material content of the negotiations, the signing of an off-take agreement, I wasnt very convinced of the announcement because Talga had already a track record of not closing negotiations positively. See here:

It wasnt a particular popular opinion at the time but here we are. The criticism was I should look at the big picture and why so negative? Guys, I am not negative in general. As proven by the text above which is purely there for you to see that I am not all negative. So with that out the way, I can talk about my opinion on the process at hand.

Initially, when the non binding offtake was announced, I gave the contract a 50% probability of materializing. I didnt say so publically here, because the forum tends to like rallying-the-troops point of views rather than sober opinion. However, I wasnt really convinced. That 50% reduced to 20% positive the Friday before (I beleave November 25th). It dropped further to 10% after Monday came and went without a word. I found the selloff on Monday before the due date on the 30th entirely logical. Many think someone tipped off the insiders, but thats just tinfoil hat territory. It might have been the case, but the market can be explained entirely by using your brain without secret whisper talk.

The negotiations could have resulted in a signed contract at any time between the initial announcement and November 30th. However, a delay can only come the final day or the day before the 30th. Talga would not announce a delay of the negotiations like .. 1 week in advance. Why should they? It could still happen before. So that means, if you look at the big picture of this contract, the longer no contract is signed, the less likely it becomes that it is signed by the end of the announced period and a delay or flat out end of the negotiations becomes more likely. Hence the selloff of at Monday.

It appears at the time, that the non-binding announcement was made in order to boost the share price for the CR that we all knew had to come. I rather have a CR at a higher share price than a lower one, so its not like I disapprove entirely of the strategy, but its not nice to be in this situation either. Lets face it, if you want to make a deal, you make a deal. You dont publicly announce you are making a deal, maybe, possibly, have faith in us, we totally didnt tell you this because we wanted to boost the share price.

Now we are in a new situation. Talga said, that we should expect a result 'shortly'. On an initial time scale of ~8 weeks, 'shortly' certainly means a small fraction of the initial time period. I interpret this as 2 weeks. My expectation of the contract being signed, at all, sits at around 50% contract, 20% long delay, 30% walk away. And its going to drop fast starting at the end of the 2 weeks 'shortly' period. So if we dont here anything by December 14th, my expectation is going to be: 30% contract, 10% long delay 60% walk away. If nothing by Christmas, its going to be at 10% contract, 0% long delay, 90% walk away.

As a result of this and past contract negotiations (LKAB, Freyr, comes to mind), I give non binding agreements very little value. I know LKAB would probably be bad if they were involved, but then, why start an MOU in the first place? Also we dont have any material contract with Mitsui either. Mark is sometimes named "master negotiator".. I dont buy that. I have never interacted with him, so I dont know whether he is good at negotiating.. but .. if he truely was a master negotuator, he would close deals and not fail them. He wouldnt need to flash a graphite Tesla, but make a contract. He would only advance deal negotiations to a point of MOU that would ultimately be positive for Talga.

Lets face it, on the customer or partner level contract front, Talga is not great. Which is why I will give very little value to any future or existing non-binding agreements. I dont think Mitsui adds any value to Talga a this point for instance. More likely than not, they are already gone. Development as coating additive for ship paint? Probably a nothing burger. Graphene for concrete? Probably 0 value.

To end on a good note, the battery development on the other hand has great potential. Talnode-Si is much more scalable than Talnode-C as it does not depend on the mine as much. It probably primarily uses graphene, which might be produced from a byproduct of the mine material processing, or being sourced from somewhere else. Same as the cathode additive. These developments have high potential and impact on Talga as they are not priced in yet. But lets not put the cart before the horse.. lets see these contracts first, in binding form.
Hi Semmel
Always good to get your thoughts on Talga and I appreciate your sensible and considered commentary on Talga’s progress.

Agree with many of your comments, but I will respectfully disagree with one point regarding negotiations and Mark’s capability. I would not go so far to describe Mark as a ‘masterful negotiator’ either, but I do believe that just because he hasn’t closed many deals, doesn’t mean he is incapable of doing so. First and foremost, I believe he is always assessing whether the deal is in the long term interests of shareholders and that includes himself as the 2nd largest shareholder. Sometimes, it is just as important to know when to walk away than to sign a deal for the short term appeasement of the market.

In terms of LKAB - you questioned why Talga signed a MOU with them in the first place. You have to remember the timing and strategic rationale that this was well before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and any genuine sense of urgency from Sweden/EU of needing to secure critical raw materials via improved permitting and crucially well before funding options via the European Investment Bank etc were a viable debt financing option for a graphite company like Talga.

It made a huge amount of sense to partner with LKAB, being a Swedish State owned mining entity to potentially assist Talga with attaining permits and having the financing to support construction of the project as well as the mining itself. Whilst, we don’t know for sure, but I believe LKAB wanted a major stake in the potential JV and Mark wasn’t willing to give away such a large chunk as other alternative pathways came available that weren’t obviously there when they first entered the non-binding MOU.

In terms of the ACC deal, we need to remember that graphite is only just starting to get on Auto OEMs radar as it has been assumed to be in plentiful supply as an industrial product and it is only predicted to become the major use for batteries in 2023. Mark has commented that it is only in the last 6 months that OEMs have started to take their graphite/anode supply seriously and it is coming off a low price base unlike lithium, which is already in deficit and has gotten all the media headlines. I think we need to appreciate that urgency to secure lithium hydroxide/carbonate has not extended to graphite/anode just yet. To top if off - Mark is trying to build in a floating price mechanism to ensure TLG captures the upside from future price increases. Naturally, the OEMs who are getting burnt on lithium prices right now would want to minimise their cost control on yet another critical battery mineral and would be doing all they can to minimise this.

Therefore, I think we need to appreciate the challenge a small cap mining stock like TLG trying to negotiate with major multi billion dollar Tier 1 automotives might be flexing their legal muscle to extract the best outcome for themselves. I think ultimately a deal with ACC and others will be done as it would just be pure negligence to rely on Chinese anode supply given the geopolitics and environmental regulations forecast to be implemented in Europe. It is pointless to predict exactly when it will come through and perhaps there may be some compromise on both sides to eventually get it done.
 
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