The Talga Bar

Hey Jack London!

Yes, my comment is also more of an emotional nature - I live here in the EU and it is hard to see how the stranglehold from Asia is strangling what we are trying to build.
I live in a country that has been/is governed in such a way that an enemy has been declared without saying it openly, which is the foundation of our free life, our industry. They don't see that we are better doing it ourselves than leaving it to others who don't value our values.
I'm not worried about Talga, not at all. It will take time. No matter how small, Talga will win.

You know my acute worries, because I left them as breadcrumbs for those who are paying attention. NV is not one of them. The absurd thing is that it can even help Talga to get the employees we urgently need.
I'm not worried about off takes either. Breadcrumbs
Thanks for your words!
I agree, I'm not concerned about the offtakes (or sales agreements as they should probably be referred to as). Interestingly, Mark hinted that the really big news upcoming will be the strategic partnership. He suggested that the market and institutional investors will sit up and take notice when this is revealed. It will demonstrate that Talga can really get the project delivered.

Best regards,
 
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Semmel

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I agree, I'm not concerned about the offtakes (or sales agreements as they should probably be referred to as). Interestingly, Mark hinted that the really big news upcoming will be the strategic partnership. He suggested that the market and institutional investors will sit up and take notice when this is revealed. It will demonstrate that Talga can really get the project delivered.

Best regards,

Thank you for sharing! We have nearly no insight into what happens at the AGM. Would you be able to make a bullet point list or similar of the most memorable statements? I wish there was a recording but we don't have any.
 
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cosors

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I add:
I'm not worried when it comes to the big and whole picture.
Of course I get annoyed here and there about specific circumstances. You know that.
Perhaps I should have written rather that I have no doubt that Talga will go his way.
 
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DAH

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I agree, I'm not concerned about the offtakes (or sales agreements as they should probably be referred to as). Interestingly, Mark hinted that the really big news upcoming will be the strategic partnership. He suggested that the market and institutional investors will sit up and take notice when this is revealed. It will demonstrate that Talga can really get the project delivered.

Best regards,
Thanks for the share Jack!

I'm gonna guess LKAB are back in play (with MT eyeing off the expansion).

Any other guesses whilst we wait... ?
 
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Diogenese

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8% up - You know the old saw about receiving lemons and making lemonade, well MT got coal in his stocking last year, and he made graphene.
 
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TentCity

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Is it too early to order a drink from the bar given we haven’t heard of any appeals to the processing concession?!

I‘m taking heart that none of our resident super sleuths have dug up any info on appeals from the usual suspects, which means we be one step closer to the highly anticipated binding off takes and strategic partnering.
 
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cosors

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Is it too early to order a drink from the bar given we haven’t heard of any appeals to the processing concession?!

I‘m taking heart that none of our resident super sleuths have dug up any info on appeals from the usual suspects, which means we be one step closer to the highly anticipated binding off takes and strategic partnering.
Maybe.
I keep my fingers crossed.
I can't find anything.
 
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Semmel

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Posting here in the bar because I don't know how reliable this info is. Sounds very bad for Chinese EV producers..


https://x.com/ray4tesla/status/1861658921687228851


BYD executive vice president He Zhiqi sent out emails to suppliers on Nov 26 to request 10% price reduction starting on Jan 1, 2025. Here is the reply from one disgruntled supplier:
Dear Mr. He Zhiqi,


I acknowledge your notification regarding your request for suppliers to further reduce costs by 10% from 2025. However, I must express my strong dissatisfaction and vehement protest.


BYD, as a benchmark in China's auto industry, has achieved large-scale expansion through aggressive cost-cutting strategies. Yet, your company's practices are not only unethical but also exploit the hard work and resilience of the Chinese workforce and undermine the viability of domestic suppliers.


Your approach of "cutthroat pricing" and relentless pressure on suppliers has destabilized the market, leading to a vicious cycle of unethical business practices. This strategy, while initially profitable, puts the industry at risk of collapse due to unsustainable competition.


It's crucial to recognize that BYD's short-term gains are built on the backs of squeezed suppliers and compromised business ethics. This approach endangers not just your company, but the entire industrial supply chain, ultimately harming the long-term interests of Chinese workers and enterprises.


I urge BYD, as an industry leader, to prioritize long-term development over short-term profits. Instead of exploiting the supply chain, focus on fostering a healthy, sustainable environment for cooperation. The growth of China's auto industry should not come at the expense of its workers and suppliers.


We hope you will reconsider your strategies, adopting a more socially responsible and global perspective. Failure to do so risks not only your company's future but the integrity of the entire industry.


Therefore, we cannot accept your price reduction request and will not participate in practices that compromise business ethics and human dignity.

In follow up tweets to the above..:

Days taken to pay suppliers in China:

Tesla: 101 in 2023, 112 in 2022
BYD: 275 in 2023, 219 in 2022
Xpeng: 221 in 2023, 179 in 2022
NIO: 295 in 2023, 247 in 2022

Sources cited:

A second Chinese source redirects to bloomberg. Might be a wet dream from Bloomberg, but there is also Warren Buffet who sold part of his BYD holding. So take it with a grain of salt, also not sure what the implications are for us, either good or bad.
 
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cosors

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Posting here in the bar because I don't know how reliable this info is. Sounds very bad for Chinese EV producers..


https://x.com/ray4tesla/status/1861658921687228851


BYD executive vice president He Zhiqi sent out emails to suppliers on Nov 26 to request 10% price reduction starting on Jan 1, 2025. Here is the reply from one disgruntled supplier:


In follow up tweets to the above..:

Days taken to pay suppliers in China:

Tesla: 101 in 2023, 112 in 2022
BYD: 275 in 2023, 219 in 2022
Xpeng: 221 in 2023, 179 in 2022
NIO: 295 in 2023, 247 in 2022

Sources cited:

A second Chinese source redirects to bloomberg. Might be a wet dream from Bloomberg, but there is also Warren Buffet who sold part of his BYD holding. So take it with a grain of salt, also not sure what the implications are for us, either good or bad.
That's what happens when Schina burns money with subsidies and market distortions.
 
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cosors

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Posting here in the bar because I don't know how reliable this info is. Sounds very bad for Chinese EV producers..


https://x.com/ray4tesla/status/1861658921687228851


BYD executive vice president He Zhiqi sent out emails to suppliers on Nov 26 to request 10% price reduction starting on Jan 1, 2025. Here is the reply from one disgruntled supplier:


In follow up tweets to the above..:

Days taken to pay suppliers in China:

Tesla: 101 in 2023, 112 in 2022
BYD: 275 in 2023, 219 in 2022
Xpeng: 221 in 2023, 179 in 2022
NIO: 295 in 2023, 247 in 2022

Sources cited:

A second Chinese source redirects to bloomberg. Might be a wet dream from Bloomberg, but there is also Warren Buffet who sold part of his BYD holding. So take it with a grain of salt, also not sure what the implications are for us, either good or bad.
BYD has just openly called on all Schinese OEMs to destroy the OEMs of the old world. Didn't they?
 
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cosors

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A generated image from an automated primitive stock page. Somehow I like it - LoL

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cosors

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Northvolt and PTL (Putailai)
Any post from a random one on the www. But an interesting thought:
An acquaintance worked there. This person says that they bought a lot of equipment from China to make the batteries. Nothing worked well.* Now the Chinese are just waiting to buy the factory to gain a foothold in Europe. Someone is playing chess when the EU plays with a push fia.
*
When I read this opinion some time ago for the first time, I thought to myself, with aluminium on my head, that the Chinese machines were not working properly on purpose.

More info:
I thought about what will happen with the difficulties of NV with the PTL now. I couldn't find out anything about their approval process yet. But a new law has been created in Sweden (Swedish FDI Act).

Since December 2023, the Swedish FDI Act, which did not exist when the agreement was signed, has also been in place, and PTL needs to comply with it. On June 13, 2024, PTL announced that it had received notification from ISP that the authority would initiate a formal review. This can take up to six months.
PTL has been working on the basis of a timetable that allows it to start preparatory groundwork in 2024, begin actual construction in 2025 and have the factory fully operational in early 2027. The ISP's decision means that PTL is postponing some processes for a few months, such as preparatory groundwork, but is keeping up the pace in other processes.

Frequently asked questions and answers:


"Chinese billion-dollar deal in Timrå delayed again – audit needs more time​

Published: 12 September 2024
The billion-dollar investment in the municipality of Timrå is delayed further. The authority ISP is expanding its audit of the Chinese company PTL's plans for a battery factory with 1,900 employees.
Topics in the article:
Economy, municipal politics, municipal policy, municipal companies

A political storm is raging over the plans of the Chinese company PTL in Torsboda, near Timrå. Now the construction schedule has been postponed again. The Swedish Inspectorate for Strategic Products (ISP) is extending its in-depth security review of the investment and PTL's links to the Chinese state by up to three months. The work must be completed by 12 December at the latest, according to a company press release.

In May 2023, Timrås and Sundsvalls joint venture Torsboda Industrial Park signed an agreement with PTL for an investment in an anode factory – an important component for batteries – for SEK 13 billion.
From the outset, it was hoped that the deal would be finalised in the spring. However, the establishment is burdened with delays and harsh criticism from the opposition in Sundsvall. In June, L, M, KD and SD stopped a SEK 165 million guarantee pledge, with the parties calling for greater transparency in the transaction.

To top it all off, one of the most important customers of the planned factory in Torsboda recently pulled the emergency brake and announced shortcuts.

‘Northvolt is an important customer, but not the only one for the Timrå factory,’ writes PTL spokesman Andreas Hamrin in an SMS to Sundsvalls Tidning."




"Hear MP Jörgen Berglund (M) talk about the risks of the new construction in Torsboda - and hear PTL representative Suki Wang's response to claims that Chinese-owned companies could be a security risk. Photo: PTL

MEP on the Chinese factory in Timrå: ‘There are risks’​

Updated 12 May 2024

Published 12 May 2024

A year ago, it was announced that the Chinese company PTL will build a factory to produce raw materials for batteries north of Timrå, but the Chinese ownership is problematic according to some analysts.

- ‘It involves risks,’ says MP Jörgen Berglund (M).

At the same time, the factory's alleged minimal environmental impact has now begun to be questioned.

Chinese PTL will produce graphite for electric car batteries in Torsboda. 1,900 jobs have been promised.

At the same time, Säpo considers China to be one of the biggest security threats toSweden and the Torsboda factory is being questioned from a security point of view, including by MP Jörgen Berglund (M), who sits on the Defence Committee.

- ‘There is a law in China where you as a company or individual citizen are obliged to report and do favours for the Chinese state. This is quite problematic,’ he says.

PTL denies that the company is a security risk.

- ‘The company is privately owned, so it's not a fair question,’ says Suki Wang, Establishment Manager, PTL.

Moving up the ranks​

The establishment of Chinese companies in Sweden could be part of an ambition to control future-oriented industries in order to advance the country's positions, according to commentators such as Patrik Oksanen last autumn.

👉 Timrå's head of security protection chose to quit last autumn, as ST reported. He was critical of the municipality's way of handling the establishment.

According to PTL, it is the access to what they call green electricity from wind and hydropower that has been crucial to the choice of location. At the same time, local residents wonder how environmentally friendly the factory will actually be.

‘Breathing out pollution’​

The former chairman of Timrå's municipal council, Social Democrat Ewa Lindstrand, does not see the emission-free system that she believes has been promised.

- ‘Possibly in the actual production inside, but it has to spew out pollution somewhere and it will,’ she says.

PTL does not deny that the factory will emit pollutants, but responds:

- ‘As an international battery component supplier, we are always working on a sustainable and environmentally friendly solution,’ says Suki Wang, PTL's establishment manager."


1733134805998.gif

"We at PTL are proud to take an active role in Sweden's and the EU's green transition through the establishment of a state-of-the-art anode factory worth SEK 13 billion at Torsboda Industrial Park outside Timrå. The factory will be an important part of further strengthening Sweden's leading position in battery manufacturing by supplying anode materials to players in the Swedish battery value chain. Together, we will create around 1,900 jobs and contribute to the development of the region.

We have chosen the location with great care. Sweden and the region are ideal from several perspectives. It has a well-educated labour force and ambitious investments in green energy. It has leading and state-of-the-art battery projects. There is also a great deal of knowledge and high ambitions in the region, which has contributed to our decision to invest here.

The anode plant, which will start production in 2026, will be the most advanced in the world, with 100 per cent of the raw materials coming from the EU region. We will produce artificial graphite anode, hard carbon for Na-ion batteries and silicon anode, with an annual capacity of 50,000 tonnes in the first phase and another 50,000 tonnes in phase two. To ensure the highest quality, we will have integrated materials research and development and fully automated logistics.

We are committed to offering the highest quality in production while having the lowest CO2 footprint in the world, thanks to low energy consumption and 100% green electricity. We will clean 100% of our emissions and recycle all solid waste.

As a global leading green-tech company founded in 2012 and listed in Shanghai, we are proud to contribute to the green transition in both Sweden and the EU. With over 12,000 employees worldwide and a strong presence in the lithium-ion battery manufacturing industry, we are determined to become the world's leading supplier. Our wholly-owned subsidiary Zichen is the world's second largest producer of anode materials, with a global market share of 11 per cent. Our customers include Samsung, Tesla, LG Chem, TDK, Panasonic and ATL.

Together with representatives of the region, we look forward to making a difference and setting the green transition in motion."



Interesting order:
Forest felling has been carried out, => environmental permit processes are ongoing.
There are a few ancient monuments. Hilly areas in the northern part. Overgrown pastures with biotope-protected stone walls may possibly be affected in the part that has not yet been planned.

but, it's better than how it is in Serbia. There, they have no environmental permit except for the 2-metre-high wall around the site where the employees live in converted pigsties.


"Following the judgment of the Administrative Court of Appeal on a secret agreement: ‘The investment is threatened’​

1733135740146.png

When the Chinese company PTL presented its industrial plans, Andreas Sjölander (S) from Härnösand, Niklas Säwén (S) from Sundsvall and Stefan Dalin (S) from Timrå were on site at Torsboda Industrial Park.

The municipal company referred to the Chinese confidentiality requirements and classified the business agreement for the large factory investment in Timrå as top secret. Wrong, the Administrative Court of Appeal ruled. Now the project is threatened, according to the company's CEO.

Topics in the article:

Local politics, real estate, municipal companies

Sundsvalls Tidning had appealed the secrecy of the business agreement between the municipal Torsboda industrial park and the Chinese company PTL and is now reporting on the verdict of the Administrative Court of Appeal.

The 163-page agreement covers land purchases and business arrangements for PTL's huge investment in a battery component factory in the Torsboda industrial park just outside Timrå. The municipal company, jointly owned by Timrå and Sundsvall, has been heavily criticised for trying to classify every single letter of the agreement.

The company referred to the fact that the Chinese authorities and laws impose strict confidentiality requirements during the process in which PTL seeks the state's permission to transfer capital for the investment.

The Chinese company has pointed out to Dagens Samhälle that the confidentiality issue also concerns clauses in the agreement that the parties have jointly agreed upon.

READ MORE: Municipal company classifies agreements as secret – refers to Chinese law

The administrative court of appeal points out in its ruling that the municipal company cannot classify all content as secret. According to the administrative court of appeal, a confidentiality review must be carried out for each piece of information. It is now up to the Torsboda industrial park to carry out a confidentiality review of the content of the agreement.

In submissions to the Administrative Court of Appeal, Torbodabolaget has asserted that PTL's investment would be jeopardised if the agreement were to be disclosed in any part. Following the judgment, the municipal company's CEO, Christian Söderberg, reiterates that the investment is not at risk of not being realised, according to P4 Västernorrland.

‘If the wrong information leaks out, it could definitely affect the ability and opportunity to carry out the facility at all.

‘It is very important that the entire agreement is kept confidential,’ Christian Söderberg tells P4 Västernorrland.

The chairman of the municipal executive board in Timrå, Stefan Dalin (S), who is also the chairman of the Torsboda industrial park, wants to familiarise himself with the judgment before commenting on the matter, Sundsvalls Tidning writes.

He has previously said that the confidentiality is temporary and that the agreement will be disclosed as soon as the business process allows.

READ MORE: Sweden tightens control of Chinese investment"


...
...
It is an incredible shame that there are no reindeers there and that nobody cries genocide.)
 
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cosors

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🤦‍♂️

"Australia collapses free trade deal with the EU​

The negotiations on a free trade agreement between the EU and Australia, which have been going on for five years, have failed for the time being. Both sides blame each other for this.
30.10.2023
1733144510683.png


Bangkok, Brussels. At the weekend, EU Trade Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis spread the hope that an agreement in the free trade talks with Australia was within reach – and thus also one of the rare successes in EU trade policy.

But shortly after the optimism on display on the sidelines of a G7 meeting in Osaka, Japan, the opposite occurred: Australia announced its provisional withdrawal from the negotiations that had been going on for five years. Among other things, the EU's concessions in opening the European market for Australian agricultural products did not go far enough for the Australians.

This means that a project to which both sides had high hopes has failed. Australia hoped that the agreement with the EU would provide an alternative sales market, especially for its agricultural industry, which has suffered from a trade conflict with China in recent years. The EU, in turn, aimed for better access to critical minerals, such as rare earths, which Australia has in abundance.

But in the end, the common interests were not enough. "Unfortunately, we have not been able to make progress," said Australia's Trade Minister Don Farrell. A meeting with Dombrovskis planned for Monday, in which the final spurt of the negotiations should have taken place, was cancelled. He now hopes that "one day" there will be an agreement with the EU."
 
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cosors

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"Stunning or rubbish? Jaguar's new concept car divides opinion​

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Perhaps you didn't know, like me until just today, that Jaguar has done away with its brand icon, the Jaguar.
Some fear that this brand is doomed.
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cosors

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It goes even lower:
Screenshot_2024-12-03-20-54-08-26_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
 
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There is practically no stock available to borrow, it doesn't mean there is no appetite to short the stock

@JNRB current general thoughts? If I made the post here that you did over on the other place you would have called me a downramper!!?? Are you coming round to the dark side?
 

JNRB

Regular
There is practically no stock available to borrow, it doesn't mean there is no appetite to short the stock

@JNRB current general thoughts? If I made the post here that you did over on the other place you would have called me a downramper!!?? Are you coming round to the dark side?
Pretty sure I called you a downramper here.

Pretty sure I also said I wasn't expecting anything this side of Christmas, and that I would consider "fast" action post-mining license to mean getting things signed in q1 '25.

So my current general thoughts are exactly the same as no new info has come to light that would make me think otherwise.


Unless you count todays news of China banning certain mineral exports to USA, further reinforcing the idea that they are not a reliable partner for countries to be dependent on increasing the urgency of developing domestic supply chains.

My current general thoughts are that is a positive macro-envitonment development for Talga.

I help held Talga through the dark days of permit-purgatory. I don't know what development since would have caused me to swing to the darknside.
Northvolt maybe? That's not great news. But at the same time i think the Northvolt/volkswagen news is exactly the kick up the arse the Europeans needed to learn they're not the bees-knees anymore and they need to ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING in order to stay relevant in the future.
 
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JNRB

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Pretty sure I called you a downramper here.

Pretty sure I also said I wasn't expecting anything this side of Christmas, and that I would consider "fast" action post-mining license to mean getting things signed in q1 '25.

So my current general thoughts are exactly the same as no new info has come to light that would make me think otherwise.


Unless you count todays news of China banning certain mineral exports to USA, further reinforcing the idea that they are not a reliable partner for countries to be dependent on increasing the urgency of developing domestic supply chains.

My current general thoughts are that is a positive macro-envitonment development for Talga.

I help Talga through the dark days of permit-purgatory. I don't know what development since would have caused me to swing to the darknside.
Northvolt maybe? That's not great news. But at the same time i think the Northvolt/volkswagen news is exactly the kick up the arse the Europeans needed to learn they're not the bees-knees anymore and they need to ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING in order to stay relevant in the future.
EDIT:
"I held Talga through the dark days"
I didn't do anything more than that to 'help' them lol
 
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EDIT:
"I held Talga through the dark days"
I didn't do anything more than that to 'help' them lol
I gotta say MT needs to temper his language to a degree. He should never have used "dam bursting", or whatever he said exactly, about the stream of announcements expected after the permit was finally decided. That just conveyed the completely wrong time schedule that is now again proving to be tedious and the SP is duly suffering.

I'm just thankful that I turned my attention completely away from the battery sector and picked up a helluva lot of IPX ( I told yas ) which is now @ $4.71 compared to when I started buying it at $0.75. I'm in at an average $2.05

That stemmed the TLG bleeding and has put me into the black big time in the last 2 months.

I hope the rest of you are showing not much red or hopefully a lot of black.

Anyone else had any luck with other stocks ?????

The TLG wait continues but should eventually bring good news
 
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BlackBeak

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I gotta say MT needs to temper his language to a degree. He should never have used "dam bursting", or whatever he said exactly, about the stream of announcements expected after the permit was finally decided. That just conveyed the completely wrong time schedule that is now again proving to be tedious and the SP is duly suffering.

I'm just thankful that I turned my attention completely away from the battery sector and picked up a helluva lot of IPX ( I told yas ) which is now @ $4.71 compared to when I started buying it at $0.75. I'm in at an average $2.05

That stemmed the TLG bleeding and has put me into the black big time in the last 2 months.

I hope the rest of you are showing not much red or hopefully a lot of black.

Anyone else had any luck with other stocks ?????

The TLG wait continues but should eventually bring good news
I took my bags from NVX, LKE, VUL when they peaked and put them all in Talga at like $1.20, so I did have luck with other stocks xD

It's ok though, I sold my house and put that into TLG too, got my average down to $0.62.

My timing might have been terrible with TLG, but I'm 100% balls deep in it, and while it sucks to be red I truly believe the world is moving towards EV's and battery storage, at this point whether they're forced to or not. EV'S should be able to be built cheaper than ICE, and I know at least with Tesla after buying one, I would never buy anything else, driving an ICE car now for me is a terrible experience. Demand for ex- China graphite will be there. And with EU regulation and support I don't see how Talga will be allowed to fail (it's not as expensive to stand up as northvolt, and unlike northvolt there isn't anyone else who's just going to come in and stand-up a natural anode company using local natural graphite if it did fail, so it can't be allowed to).

The question isn't if, it's when.

Also I believe the comment about "the dam bursting" also had "over the next few quarters" attached to it. Again, I have no doubt about the if, it's just the when :)
 
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