Talga Updates and Discussion thread

[Stares_into_Space]

I think if recycling could be done a prices comparable to new synthetic, Talga would have been yelling that from the rooftops. The fact that they haven't mentioned cost likely means it is more expensive. However, maybe they're working on reducing cost now.

Maybe it's just wild speculation but Talga could be holding the cost close to the chest so the market doesn't front run a bunch of puts on black mass before it can even get used as a feedstock

 

[mpk1980]

I think if recycling could be done a prices comparable to new synthetic, Talga would have been yelling that from the rooftops. The fact that they haven't mentioned cost likely means it is more expensive. However, maybe they're working on reducing cost now.

I am the biggest fan of Talga and sorry to be cynical but when have they given away any more than they've had to in regards to their tech?

LT holders / "sophisticated investors" as MT terms us....have all but been joining the dots from past announcements. I think there is a covert strategy with this....to stay under the radar with the tech and to only reveal things when it all comes together. I heard this strategy being discussed by a supply chain guru (Jeff Lutz) and the moment I heard it I thought of TLG!

 

[teilenswert]

I saw this post on X and had a good laugh. From graphene over Talnode C over Talnode Si over Talnode E over Lithium over Talnode R. Let's see what comes next - the alphabet has some letters left.

 

[curiousmagpie]

I saw this post on X and had a good laugh. From graphene over Talnode C over Talnode Si over Talnode E over Lithium over Talnode R. Let's see what comes next - the alphabet has some letters left.

Graphene getting a lot of hype again (have a look at HydroGraph chart). Talga will go back to graphene and the promotion/capital raise/dead end project cycle starts again.

 

[Gvan]

Graphene getting a lot of hype again (have a look at HydroGraph chart). Talga will go back to graphene and the promotion/capital raise/dead end project cycle starts again.

"I said previously nothing will happen before the "loyalty" options expire. no positive news within the company's control. no significant offtakes, no investment. no tech breakthroughs or updates. everyone bookmark this so you can tell me how wrong I am. I'll wait."

Being able to use recycled graphite concentrate and turn it into anode that matches the performance of new synthetic anode is a tech breakthrough, especially considering no one else has apparently been able to achieve this. So, your conspiracy that management would wait for options to expire before announcing anything substantial was incorrect.

 

[curiousmagpie]

Yes I was incorrect.

Still can’t sustain a share price that makes the options in the money. Wonder what else they’ve got

 

[Semmel]

"I said previously nothing will happen before the "loyalty" options expire. no positive news within the company's control. no significant offtakes, no investment. no tech breakthroughs or updates. everyone bookmark this so you can tell me how wrong I am. I'll wait."

Being able to use recycled graphite concentrate and turn it into anode that matches the performance of new synthetic anode is a tech breakthrough, especially considering no one else has apparently been able to achieve this. So, your conspiracy that management would wait for options to expire before announcing anything substantial was incorrect.

I did some more research on Talnode-R and the black mass Feedstock. It is indeed true that the black mass contains all the good stuff from metals to electrolytes and anode.

Looks like Talga can use graphite that is left over from leaching the metals from black mass as the graphite remains almost uneffected by typical acids that are used for leaching. Graphite would be left from as solid residue in the solution. This is called hydrometallurgy and is used by both Altilium and Aurubis. It would boost Talgas Feedstock by 5ktpa for 3 years from altilium.

There is another approach where the black mass is heated to ~1500 C and burned. The metals are extracted from the hot slack, which burns the graphite and is obviously incompatible with Talnode-R.

Redwood Materials in the US are heating batteries before crushing under nitrogen atmosphere to 300 to 600 deg C, which renders the batteries inert and decomposes binders and other organics. However it probably leaves the graphite crystal structure intact as the graphite does not burn without oxygen and the temperature is not high enough to damage the crystal structure. If redwood then leaches out the metal using acids, the solid residue that contains graphite might be less pure than other methods but the graphite should be uneffected. Meaning it is compatible with Talgas approach given some additional purification steps. Current graphite material volume by redwood materials is 15ktpa but might increase to 100ktpa in the next years.

This all sounds very, very positive! If the processing is really similar to Talnode-C and therefore similar to the cost structure as we all hope, the additional purification steps don't sound too bad in terms of added costs. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that this could be a banger. Especially as Talga is currently the only player world wide that can do this.

 

[curiousmagpie]

Especially as Talga is currently the only player world wide that can do this.

Not quite. Note the carefully worded Talnode-R announcement:
"Talga is among the first companies globally to demonstrate that spent battery waste graphite can be regenerated for use in EV quality batteries"


Vianode claimed in March they can do this:

Vianode launches first recycled graphite product for more sustainable…

We deliver high performance anode graphite for EVs. Decarbonisation included.

www.vianode.com

 

[Semmel]

Not quite. Note the carefully worded Talnode-R announcement:
"Talga is among the first companies globally to demonstrate that spent battery waste graphite can be regenerated for use in EV quality batteries"


Vianode claimed in March they can do this:

Vianode launches first recycled graphite product for more sustainable…

We deliver high performance anode graphite for EVs. Decarbonisation included.

www.vianode.com

Thank you, I missed vianode. Good to know!

 

[Semmel]

YouTube Link to the most recent US OTC targeted presentation (thx rhythm34 for making me aware)

 

[cosors]

YouTube Link to the most recent US OTC targeted presentation (thx rhythm34 for making me aware)

Thanks to both of you!

 

[Semmel]

Talga enters US battery anode market

 

[Semmel]

Interesting announcement. First of all, who is UCC anyway? Never heard of them.

"United Catalyst Corporation, based in Fountain Inn, South Carolina, specializes in the recycling of scrap catalytic converters, focusing on recovering precious metals like platinum, palladium, and rhodium."

Ok.. not what I was expecting. Recycling catalysts is obvioysly suitable for gas powered cars. A shrinking business, both because the number of cars will become less, so its reducing feed material.. and the demand is reducing as well, probably much faster, as new catalysts are not needed as much. They are a shrinking business. As they are privately owned, we dont know for sure, but I bet the writing is on the wall. They need to expand into battery vehcles.. but I dont see how. Maybe they intend to recycle batteries but if so, they are not an established player.

Odd choice by Talga to be honest.

BlackBeak on HC noted:

A quick google on recycling catalytic converters show they can use acids, like hydrochloric acid, in their recycling process.

Maybe UCC are going under, or have spare space in their buildings. We can offer them a way to continue profitably (or just eventually buy them out), in turn we get already built facilities that are permitted to use and store the materials we need, therefore only need to install our equipment and massively reduce the timeline to be up and running (might not need additional permitting, don't need to wait for service connections or a building to be built).

Only thing that makes sense to me. I don't think UCC are magically getting into recycling batteries and we saw them as a good fit for that reason.

If my theory is correct, then we could definitely be up and running in the US before Sweden.

Ok, that makes sense. To avoid another round of year long permitting processes, maybe Talga is looking to use the ground that is already permitted for the chemicals they need for recycling? Also, the announcement stated that they need a foothold in the US to gain access to government funding, which also makes sense. Also getting access to the network of customers is an interesting thing. Hopefully UCC didnt overstate their role..

Given the non-binding nature of the announcement, I dont know how much that would help, but at least its a start.

 

[BlackBeak]

Interesting announcement. First of all, who is UCC anyway? Never heard of them.

"United Catalyst Corporation, based in Fountain Inn, South Carolina, specializes in the recycling of scrap catalytic converters, focusing on recovering precious metals like platinum, palladium, and rhodium."

Ok.. not what I was expecting. Recycling catalysts is obvioysly suitable for gas powered cars. A shrinking business, both because the number of cars will become less, so its reducing feed material.. and the demand is reducing as well, probably much faster, as new catalysts are not needed as much. They are a shrinking business. As they are privately owned, we dont know for sure, but I bet the writing is on the wall. They need to expand into battery vehcles.. but I dont see how. Maybe they intend to recycle batteries but if so, they are not an established player.

Odd choice by Talga to be honest.

BlackBeak on HC noted:



Ok, that makes sense. To avoid another round of year long permitting processes, maybe Talga is looking to use the ground that is already permitted for the chemicals they need for recycling? Also, the announcement stated that they need a foothold in the US to gain access to government funding, which also makes sense. Also getting access to the network of customers is an interesting thing. Hopefully UCC didnt overstate their role..

Given the non-binding nature of the announcement, I dont know how much that would help, but at least its a start.

Yeah my understanding is that as soon as your dealing with strong acids like this, you need special permits. So while we could just pick any site, we'd need to develop safety plans etc. and go through all the processes.

If all Talga need to do is install some refining equipment into existing buildings, I don't even know if you need permitting.

I don't think we need to move too fast, because qualification from customers would still be under way for a while. But maybe there's some urgency around government grants. Programs in the US are changing quite rapidly, so might need to get the grants while you can.

If all we need is the equipment, because the building and permitting is already in place, it might not require a huge amount of capex to get up and running. Might be able to cover it all with federal and state funding. Time will tell!

Oh from memory, the recent US DoE grants MT has commented on are due to be decided by December 2025? So actually not long in the scheme of how long we've already waited..

 

[blondeaussie]

Courtesy of JNRB

 

[blondeaussie]

"Gains a foothold"

 

[blondeaussie]

 

[curiousmagpie]

LOL is this the best they could do to try and pump the stock before the options expire? A nonbinding with an unknown catalytic converter company with a turnover of $6MM run by husband and wife team.

Is no one seriously concerned by this? They’ve had a year to plan for these options expiring. No credible name they could sign a deal with. Just this fluff.

MT = Much Talk, Missed Timeframes, Motionless Theatrics

 

[Semmel]

Good summary by @DAH on HC:

Gees poor old MT is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The TLG team have apparently spent 2 years building their US strategy and then they announce their "entry" where they're "laying the groundwork" and within minutes the keyboard warriors decide it's a rubbish move.

Talga have spent those two years meeting players, understanding the supply chain, and looking at funding opportunities. They want to work with partners who have complimentary businesses, relationships with customers and Government and existing recycling chains. They want a site, such as a chemical park where recycling is already permitted.

Based on the ANN what can we now tick off?

Many of us (including me) hoped to see Redwood named in the ANN. No such luck but wait... Redwood are currently building their $3.5B USD recycling and manufacturing plant in South Carolina. Pretty sure MT and JB know each other.
Thanks to @rhythm34 we know that UCC's founder sits on the critical minerals panel of the ITA along with a senior exec from MP Materials. So safe to assume she's connected to "yes" people where it matters for future funding. They're pursuing "joint" grants from the DoE and look very well positioned IMO having now read the criteria.
UCC offer Talga a chemical site already permitted for chemicals which can help expedite Talga's permitting.
Back to Redwood, they've partnered with BMW to recycle end of life batteries for BMW
BMW are mentioned in the ANN, their largest manufacturing plant is in South Carolina.
Courtesy of Nashblogger we know Aurubis is a few hrs drive from UCC's facilities (partnership with TLG)
Volvo (named in the ANN) have their only North American manufacturing plant in South Carolina. Like BMW, Volvo have partnered with Redwood to close the loop, using Redwood to recycle end of life batteries.

In the OTC webinar MT said acknowledged there were plenty of graphite miners in the US but there was a gap getting downstream and creating the fully coated active anode material for the battery makers. He said this is what Talga will do. Look at the above scope for recycled material, look at this "Battery Belt" with numbers like $37B USD getting thrown around as what is being invested - it's like the silicon valley of batteries!

Vittangi looks set to go when the EU (and Sweden) says go. And now look at this landscape in the US battery belt, knowing Talga is one of few players (if not the only player) able to repurpose end of life battery anode and get it back into new batteries. How much is this worth to the Western world? A lot!

 

[Semmel]

LOL is this the best they could do to try and pump the stock before the options expire? A nonbinding with an unknown catalytic converter company with a turnover of $6MM run by husband and wife team.

Is no one seriously concerned by this? They’ve had a year to plan for these options expiring. No credible name they could sign a deal with. Just this fluff.

MT = Much Talk, Missed Timeframes, Motionless Theatrics

You also said this:

I said previously nothing will happen before the "loyalty" options expire. no positive news within the company's control. no significant offtakes, no investment. no tech breakthroughs or updates. everyone bookmark this so you can tell me how wrong I am. I'll wait.

[...]

Talga is not in control of the share price. But Talnode-R was a substantial announcement of new tech that you said would not come. You are moving the goal post here. Would I have hoped for a higher share price now? Of course! Is the new announcement a bit on the week side? Yes, I agree. Still its a first step and you cant blame them for taking first steps. Reality sometimes is at odds with plans. Thats the nature of reality but not an indication of malicious behavior. If they want to use battery black mass from end of life batteries, they need a place to process it. And if they can get an arrangement that doesnt keep them running in circles to get permits again, then this is great!