AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
John25
Regular
The Fox
Regular
Bar one occasion when an actual date was provided (many here will remember Bill Murray), the feedback has always been the same when stating a timeline to ML/PE, and includes the words....."It should be X" or "we expect X" and in this case we expect to get the ML/PE in the first two weeks etc.
Appreciate having a crack at management disappoints some, obviously I can see the battles they have to fight. However, like many I've been trying to plan my finances and commitments around a big chunk of change being taken out of my control. If the messaging around the timeline to ML was provided differently rather than statements made like "it should be through in the next week", "or two weeks" or "even providing a date" I could have navigated last year a little better.
Maybe it's not necessarily different messaging, it's probably the same messaging that's provided to the market, and better to not provide any specific dates or anticipated timelines for ML to be fully granted to certain connections. The old one or two weeks away, (which has happened a dozen times) has been so fuck'en annoying.
With the benefit of hindsight, I would have preferred AVZ tell us all the shit they have to sort through, (we'll as much info as possible without compromising the position of AVZ) and we will decide for ourselves how long it will likely take to sort out, rather then being given false hope almost every bloody month almost and trying to plan around timelines that never come to fruition.
I'm not spitting the dummy, it is what it is, however having connections and getting so called intel has been of no help in the case of AVZ, in fact one could argue it has made matters considerable worse for me and no doubt others. @BEISHA That is the target and point behind aiming my arrow at management. Whether management have done a good job navigating the DRC environment and fighting the battles is yet to unfold of course.
Apologies @Stockinvesting I am unable to provide or weigh the level of confidence mate, as I said somewhere, surly he has got to get the timeline right once out of so many attempts thus far. I just gotsta know as well !!!
Cheers The Fox
Carlos Danger
Top 20
I'm low key worried that we will end up with Hunter Biden on the AVZ board to pay the yanks back for sorting out the jackals. He does have experience with brokering mining deals in the DRC. At least the AGM after parties will be lit as fuck.
How Hunter Biden’s Firm Helped Secure Cobalt for the Chinese (Published 2021)
The president’s son was part owner of a venture involved in the $3.8 billion purchase by a Chinese conglomerate of one of the world’s largest cobalt deposits. The metal is a key ingredient in batteries for electric vehicles.
An investment firm where Hunter Biden, the president’s son, was a founding board member helped facilitate a Chinese company’s purchase from an American company of one of the world’s richest cobalt mines, located in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Mr. Biden and two other Americans joined Chinese partners in establishing the firm in 2013, known as BHR and formally named Bohai Harvest RST (Shanghai) Equity Investment Fund Management Company.
The three Americans, all of whom served on the board, controlled 30 percent of BHR, a private equity firm registered in Shanghai that makes investments and then flips them for a profit. The rest of the company is owned or controlled by Chinese investors that include the Bank of China, according to records filed with Chinese regulators.
One of BHR’s early deals was to help finance an Australian coal-mining company controlled by a Chinese state-owned firm. It also assisted a subsidiary of a Chinese defense conglomerate in buying a Michigan auto parts maker.
The firm made one of its most successful investments in 2016, when it bought and later sold a stake in CATL, a fast-growing Chinese company that is now the world’s biggest maker of batteries for electric vehicles.
The mining deal in Congo also came in 2016, when the Chinese mining outfit China Molybdenum announced that it was paying $2.65 billion to buy Tenke Fungurume, a cobalt and copper mine, from the American company Freeport-McMoRan.
As part of that deal, China Molybdenum sought a partner to buy out a minority stakeholder in the mine, Lundin Mining of Canada. That is when BHR became involved.
Records in Hong Kong show that the $1.14 billion BHR, through subsidiaries, paid to buy out Lundin came entirely from Chinese state-backed companies.
China Molybdenum lined up about $700 million of that total as loans from Chinese state-backed banks, including China Construction Bank. BHR raised the remaining amount from obscure entities with names like Design Time Limited, an offshore company controlled by China Construction’s investment bank, according to the Hong Kong filings.
Before the deal was done, BHR also signed an agreement that allowed China Molybdenum to buy BHR’s share of the mine, which the company did two years later, the filings show. That purchase gave China Molybdenum 80 percent ownership of the mine. (Congo’s state mining enterprise kept a stake for itself.)
By the time BHR sold its share in 2019, Mr. Biden controlled 10 percent of the firm through Skaneateles L.L.C., a company based in Washington. While Chinese corporate records show Skaneateles remains a part owner of BHR, Chris Clark, a lawyer for Mr. Biden, said that he “no longer holds any interest, directly or indirectly, in either BHR or Skaneateles.” The Chinese records show that Mr. Biden was no longer on BHR’s board as of April 2020. Mr. Biden did not respond to requests for comment.
Mate any Intel is much appreciated. CheersBar one occasion when an actual date was provided (many here will remember Bill Murray), the feedback has always been the same when stating a timeline to ML/PE, and includes the words....."It should be X" or "we expect X" and in this case we expect to get the ML/PE in the first two weeks etc.
Appreciate having a crack at management disappoints some, obviously I can see the battles they have to fight. However, like many I've been trying to plan my finances and commitments around a big chunk of change being taken out of my control. If the messaging around the timeline to ML was provided differently rather than statements made like "it should be through in the next week", "or two weeks" or "even providing a date" I could have navigated last year a little better.
Maybe it's not necessarily different messaging, it's probably the same messaging that's provided to the market, and better to not provide any specific dates or anticipated timelines for ML to be fully granted to certain connections. The old one or two weeks away, (which has happened a dozen times) has been so fuck'en annoying.
With the benefit of hindsight, I would have preferred AVZ tell us all the shit they have to sort through, (we'll as much info as possible without compromising the position of AVZ) and we will decide for ourselves how long it will likely take to sort out, rather then being given false hope almost every bloody month almost and trying to plan around timelines that never come to fruition.
I'm not spitting the dummy, it is what it is, however having connections and getting so called intel has been of no help in the case of AVZ, in fact one could argue it has made matters considerable worse for me and no doubt others. @BEISHA That is the target and point behind aiming my arrow at management. Whether management have done a good job navigating the DRC environment and fighting the battles is yet to unfold of course.
Apologies @Stockinvesting I am unable to provide or weigh the level of confidence mate, as I said somewhere, surly he has got to get the timeline right once out of so many attempts thus far. I just gotsta know as well !!!
Cheers The Fox
Absolutely fair call mate..........Bar one occasion when an actual date was provided (many here will remember Bill Murray), the feedback has always been the same when stating a timeline to ML/PE, and includes the words....."It should be X" or "we expect X" and in this case we expect to get the ML/PE in the first two weeks etc.
Appreciate having a crack at management disappoints some, obviously I can see the battles they have to fight. However, like many I've been trying to plan my finances and commitments around a big chunk of change being taken out of my control. If the messaging around the timeline to ML was provided differently rather than statements made like "it should be through in the next week", "or two weeks" or "even providing a date" I could have navigated last year a little better.
Maybe it's not necessarily different messaging, it's probably the same messaging that's provided to the market, and better to not provide any specific dates or anticipated timelines for ML to be fully granted to certain connections. The old one or two weeks away, (which has happened a dozen times) has been so fuck'en annoying.
With the benefit of hindsight, I would have preferred AVZ tell us all the shit they have to sort through, (we'll as much info as possible without compromising the position of AVZ) and we will decide for ourselves how long it will likely take to sort out, rather then being given false hope almost every bloody month almost and trying to plan around timelines that never come to fruition.
I'm not spitting the dummy, it is what it is, however having connections and getting so called intel has been of no help in the case of AVZ, in fact one could argue it has made matters considerable worse for me and no doubt others. @BEISHA That is the target and point behind aiming my arrow at management. Whether management have done a good job navigating the DRC environment and fighting the battles is yet to unfold of course.
Apologies @Stockinvesting I am unable to provide or weigh the level of confidence mate, as I said somewhere, surly he has got to get the timeline right once out of so many attempts thus far. I just gotsta know as well !!!
Cheers The Fox
Stockinvesting
Regular
Bar one occasion when an actual date was provided (many here will remember Bill Murray), the feedback has always been the same when stating a timeline to ML/PE, and includes the words....."It should be X" or "we expect X" and in this case we expect to get the ML/PE in the first two weeks etc.
Appreciate having a crack at management disappoints some, obviously I can see the battles they have to fight. However, like many I've been trying to plan my finances and commitments around a big chunk of change being taken out of my control. If the messaging around the timeline to ML was provided differently rather than statements made like "it should be through in the next week", "or two weeks" or "even providing a date" I could have navigated last year a little better.
Maybe it's not necessarily different messaging, it's probably the same messaging that's provided to the market, and better to not provide any specific dates or anticipated timelines for ML to be fully granted to certain connections. The old one or two weeks away, (which has happened a dozen times) has been so fuck'en annoying.
With the benefit of hindsight, I would have preferred AVZ tell us all the shit they have to sort through, (we'll as much info as possible without compromising the position of AVZ) and we will decide for ourselves how long it will likely take to sort out, rather then being given false hope almost every bloody month almost and trying to plan around timelines that never come to fruition.
I'm not spitting the dummy, it is what it is, however having connections and getting so called intel has been of no help in the case of AVZ, in fact one could argue it has made matters considerable worse for me and no doubt others. @BEISHA That is the target and point behind aiming my arrow at management. Whether management have done a good job navigating the DRC environment and fighting the battles is yet to unfold of course.
Apologies @Stockinvesting I am unable to provide or weigh the level of confidence mate, as I said somewhere, surly he has got to get the timeline right once out of so many attempts thus far. I just gotsta know as well !!!
Cheers The Fox
Stockinvesting
Regular
Thanks so much for taking the time to get back to me Fox.Absolutely fair call mate..........
Very much appreciated.
Hemicuda
Regular
great question
Rediah
Regular
Why are you worried, you have given your opinion ?
You have the same pattern as other two, whom have been put on behavioral notice by zeeb0t , you go away for weeks and then on your return post one rubbish comment, good way to start this year
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Carlos Danger
Top 20
Scroll up. I've answered this numerous times.
Rediah
Regular
Dont waste your time, check his other posts and you will know about this person.
Carlos Danger
Top 20
David holland
Regular
Do you guys think AVZ will only come out of suspension when they have a Mining Licence? Bloodbath if they dont
Bin59
Regular
Future Minerals Forum
The Future Minerals Forum (Saudi Arabia) dates in January would fit in nicely with TheFox’s 2 week prediction for the ML - big
on Antoinette’s face.
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Bin59
Regular
DRC: The government is preparing to formalize the gold trade of artisanal exploitation
January 2, 2023
img 20230102 wa0058https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...-commerce-de-lor-de-lexploitation-artisanale/
The Democratic Republic of Congo will implement several initiatives to increase revenues and improve financial transparency over the new year, including a plan to formalize the artisanal trade in gold and amend an agriculture law to encourage foreign investment, government officials said.
The copper and cobalt producer is seeking to diversify its sources of income after an exceptional year in the mining sector, which will result in economic growth of nearly 7%. The government also plans to extend income taxes and offer tax exemptions in special economic zones, officials said.
"The goal is to become a country of transformation, not just a country of production," Finance Minister Nicolas Kazadi said last week on the sidelines of a United States-Africa summit.
Congo is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of natural resources, but it has long been considered a difficult place to do business because of corruption, conflict and limited infrastructure. Millions of people are currently displaced in the east of the country due to fighting fueled in part by the illicit trade in minerals such as tantalum and gold.
The government hopes to break this link after signing an agreement with the United Arab Emirates "that will allow us to buy all the gold produced by the craft sector," added Kazadi.
Most of Congo's smuggling gold passes through Rwanda and Uganda and ends up in Dubai, he hammered. The United Arab Emirates and Congo are setting up infrastructure to formalize the market, he said, without giving more details.
Congo will launch its first gold refinery in the city of Bukavu in 2023, Industry Minister Julien Paluku informed in an interview in Washington. The country also creates special economic zones that benefit from 10 to 20 years of tax exemptions, said Paluku.
A Chinese tile company, Saphir Ceramics, will start production in the first quarter of 2023 in the first area of the country on the outskirts of Kinshasa. The Indian Varun Beverages, a Pepsi bottler and a pharmaceutical manufacturer should also join them, he said.
A similar fear has haunted me for some time.I'm low key worried that we will end up with Hunter Biden on the AVZ board to pay the yanks back for sorting out the jackals. He does have experience with brokering mining deals in the DRC. At least the AGM after parties will be lit as fuck.
How Hunter Biden’s Firm Helped Secure Cobalt for the Chinese (Published 2021)
The president’s son was part owner of a venture involved in the $3.8 billion purchase by a Chinese conglomerate of one of the world’s largest cobalt deposits. The metal is a key ingredient in batteries for electric vehicles.www.nytimes.com
An investment firm where Hunter Biden, the president’s son, was a founding board member helped facilitate a Chinese company’s purchase from an American company of one of the world’s richest cobalt mines, located in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Mr. Biden and two other Americans joined Chinese partners in establishing the firm in 2013, known as BHR and formally named Bohai Harvest RST (Shanghai) Equity Investment Fund Management Company.
The three Americans, all of whom served on the board, controlled 30 percent of BHR, a private equity firm registered in Shanghai that makes investments and then flips them for a profit. The rest of the company is owned or controlled by Chinese investors that include the Bank of China, according to records filed with Chinese regulators.
One of BHR’s early deals was to help finance an Australian coal-mining company controlled by a Chinese state-owned firm. It also assisted a subsidiary of a Chinese defense conglomerate in buying a Michigan auto parts maker.
The firm made one of its most successful investments in 2016, when it bought and later sold a stake in CATL, a fast-growing Chinese company that is now the world’s biggest maker of batteries for electric vehicles.
The mining deal in Congo also came in 2016, when the Chinese mining outfit China Molybdenum announced that it was paying $2.65 billion to buy Tenke Fungurume, a cobalt and copper mine, from the American company Freeport-McMoRan.
As part of that deal, China Molybdenum sought a partner to buy out a minority stakeholder in the mine, Lundin Mining of Canada. That is when BHR became involved.
Records in Hong Kong show that the $1.14 billion BHR, through subsidiaries, paid to buy out Lundin came entirely from Chinese state-backed companies.
China Molybdenum lined up about $700 million of that total as loans from Chinese state-backed banks, including China Construction Bank. BHR raised the remaining amount from obscure entities with names like Design Time Limited, an offshore company controlled by China Construction’s investment bank, according to the Hong Kong filings.
Before the deal was done, BHR also signed an agreement that allowed China Molybdenum to buy BHR’s share of the mine, which the company did two years later, the filings show. That purchase gave China Molybdenum 80 percent ownership of the mine. (Congo’s state mining enterprise kept a stake for itself.)
By the time BHR sold its share in 2019, Mr. Biden controlled 10 percent of the firm through Skaneateles L.L.C., a company based in Washington. While Chinese corporate records show Skaneateles remains a part owner of BHR, Chris Clark, a lawyer for Mr. Biden, said that he “no longer holds any interest, directly or indirectly, in either BHR or Skaneateles.” The Chinese records show that Mr. Biden was no longer on BHR’s board as of April 2020. Mr. Biden did not respond to requests for comment.
US just want control of the white gold and don't really care which company owns the mine, or who owns the company.
Regarding disclosure by AVZ board of where this shit storm is upto, I believe that they were deliberately not showing their hand to the Chinese.
I understand and agree with that tactic and therefore accept that little information could be forthcoming.
In hindsight though, it is apparent that AVZ not only did not know about all of the shenanigans but also knew that they did not know. ie AVZ knew that there were known unknowns.
With that in mind, I find it reprehensible that NF, and a complicit board, could misinform shareholders on timelines.
I use the word 'misinform' generously.
Carlos Danger
Top 20
Shorter than the previous extension
TDITD
Top 20
CATH must surely be applying pressure to get the mine started, not exactly a company you mug off with everything DRC are claiming to want to be. Mr Pei and Nigel need to get Felix in a meeting an knock some heads. Lets go guys, ffs lets not have 'extension' be AVZs word for 2023
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