AVZ Discussion 2022

[Winenut]

pretty clear from these two letters that adele/comminere attempted to sell the 15% to zijin without avz knowing. what gets me in this is that this is material and clearly avz knew in july 21 of these matters, surely this is something that should have been made known via the asx. I find it hard to resolve.

It says that AVZ were notified and that the 40 day period for them to exercise their first right of refusal lapsed

Were AVZ notified?

If so did they let the 40 day period lapse and not provide a response?

Couple of million $ questions there

It is not necessarily material if AVZ was notified and did correctly exercise their right of first refusal within the prescribed timeframe beacuse under normal circumstances that would be legally appropriate and totally within the ordinary course of business

What would be material is if AVZ was notified and AVZ did exercise it's pre-emptive right and then Comminiere ignored that and proceeded illegally with the sale to Zijin anyway

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

View attachment 24701

Great work, Jag.

2.1.6 is quite instructive on a number of fronts:
- it implies that CAMI’s role extends beyond simply calculating the surface fees and issuing the invoice. This matches my own understanding of the Mining Code and Regs (I’ll have more to share on that later)
- it confirms the AVZ knows that this will mess with issuance of the ML
- it confirms to me that the rats in MoP, CAMI, and Cominiere also know that the transaction would mess with the ML - accordingly they have played straight into it in pursuit of their own payday and to appease their lord and master, Zinjin.

Again, I wish this had more of a “cease and decist” feel to it rather than a “we are somewhat miffed” feel to it.

And it is clearly material.

Keep ‘em coming Jag - next up I’d like to see our offer. how much, and when offered relative to this correspondence.

 

[Winenut]

Great work, Jag.

2.1.6 is quite instructive on a number of fronts:
- it implies that CAMI’s role extends beyond simply calculating the surface fees and issuing the invoice. This matches my own understanding of the Mining Code and Regs (I’ll have more to share on that later)
- it confirms the AVZ knows that this will mess with issuance of the ML
- it confirms to me that the rats in MoP, CAMI, and Cominiere also know it the transaction would mess with the ML - accordingly they have played straight into it in pursuit of their own payday and to appease their lord and master, Zinjin.

Again, I wish this had more of a “cease and decist” feel to it rather than a “we are somewhat miffed” feel to it.

And it is clearly material.

Keep ‘em coming Jag - next up I’d like to see our offer. how much, and when offered relative to this correspondence.

Agreed some of the language and sentiment is pretty soft eg "unfortunate oversight" etc etc

Should have been more like "absolutely stop doing what you are doing immediately as it is unequivocally in direct violation of the existing JV agreement"

 

[BEISHA]

View attachment 24630

If i am reading this right.................Jin Cheng dont have a case.

But i am just a simple tradie.

What the fuck do i know ?

 

[Winenut]

If i am reading this right.................Jin Cheng dont have a case.

But i am just a simple tradie.

What the fuck do i know ?

Do we know the date of that document?

 

[Samus]

Do we know the date of that document?

8th November 2021

 

[Winenut]

8th November 2021

But the horse had bolted?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Great work, Jag.

2.1.6 is quite instructive on a number of fronts:
- it implies that CAMI’s role extends beyond simply calculating the surface fees and issuing the invoice. This matches my own understanding of the Mining Code and Regs (I’ll have more to share on that later)
- it confirms the AVZ knows that this will mess with issuance of the ML
- it confirms to me that the rats in MoP, CAMI, and Cominiere also know it the transaction would mess with the ML - accordingly they have played straight into it in pursuit of their own payday and to appease their lord and master, Zinjin.

Again, I wish this had more of a “cease and decist” feel to it rather than a “we are somewhat miffed” feel to it.

And it is clearly material.

Keep ‘em coming Jag - next up I’d like to see our offer. how much, and when offered relative to this correspondence.

CAMI have a role to play in the favourable opinion process. As the letter from AVZ was written in August 2021 the reference to the risk of conversion to an operating licence was before the approvals were given and the Minister of Mines gave the decree in 2022 imo. Franck Fwamba and other local journalists are adamant that the only thing left for CAMI to do is add up the numbers and print a piece of paper. They have far more knowledge and experience than any of us with how the DRC mining code works.

 

[Samus]

But the horse had bolted?

I am not sure on that Wino, been busy but trying to follow this on and off over the weekend.
Hope to catch up properly and try to digest everything later.

 

[BEISHA]

View attachment 24630

Kudos to AVZ BOD for putting DATHOMIR & JIN CHENG on notice for their skull duggery on the 8/11/21, however were AVZ derelect in its duty to not diclose that material info to the ASX / AVZ shareholders ?

Or doesnt a nudge, nudge , wink , wink .........qualify ?

Interesting to note, November 2021 was a big news month on the ASX for AVZ.

a) Chairmans address

b) AGM

c) DRC business forum presentation

d) directors buying shares x 5

e) AVZ to join DRC BATTERY COUNCIL


All PARTY, PARTY, PARTY................not one hint that there were " grey skies " in the background except maybe this below........

f) CATH TRANSACTION EXTENSION TO END DATE...........



More good news arrived in DEC 2021 too

a) change of directors interest x 5

b) TRADING HALT...............AVZ COMPLETES SUCCESSFUL PLACEMENT OF $75 MILLION


13/4/2022 MANONO RECEIVES FAVOURABLE TECHNICAL OPINION


4/5/ 2022 MINISTERIAL DECREE TO AWARD THE ML


How did AVZ get to this stage without DATHOMIR / JIN CHENG issues raised either informally or formally ?


9/5/22 TRADING HALT

11/5/22 ARBITRATION REQUEST / SUSPENSION FROM OFFICIAL QUOTATION....

I wish i posed this journey question to the BOD on the previous AGM


Just beggars belief.


imo

 

[BEISHA]

I've been trying to get an overview of this shit again for the last few days and would like to share my thoughts and assumptions with you.
As already mentioned several times i have no idea what the truth is but some things just don't seem logical to me.

My main question:

Why should cami block us so long and how is it possible? Which scenarios could happen?


Yesterday I talked to a guy on twitter about our case who is probably very active in the mining sector in drc, i think his knowledge seems legit.








a few conditions of the mining code to transform PR in PE which are the most important in our case:

-Financing must be clear
-one party need mininum 51% ownership
-the state get 10% undiluted shares

1. issue: Ownership

After the minister of portfolio our current ownership is 60% AVZ 15% Dathomir 15% Zijin 5% MMCS 5% Cominiere.
Under our JV agreement Cominiere have to cede 10% to the State as a condition of the award of the mining licence. But after the Minister of Portfolio Cominiere have no 10% left.
Next point christian lukasu said in a letter that when continue discussions with zijin could risk tainting the conversion of PR in PE because cami is examining the shareholder stucture. The RCCM stil have 60% AVZ 15% Dathomir and 25% Cominiere registered, but 30% are under arbitration dispute now and the left 5% MMCS there is no information. I don't know if cami have a problem with the 30% in dispute or the 10% that are not possible to cede to state is the bigger problem.


2. issue: Financing in combination with 51% minimum ownership

The 15% we bought from Dathomir are under dispute. It looks like we need the ICC ruling that the state accept the 75%. For the moment it's possible we can only work with 60%. So we can't sell 24% to Cath at the moment, because we would not have the 51% minimun ownership and loose our possibility to finance the project. Only solution: WE NEED A NEW CATH DEAL!!!!!!
But i think that is quite possible in the short time when cath is willing to help us.

I personally believe the main reasons for cami does not continue with the calculation of the surface rights to finally transform the PR in PE, are that the ownership situation has not been clearly clarified at the moment and after the Minister of Portfilio Cominiere have no 10% left to cede it to the state.



What could happen? Unfortunately, there are now so many innumerable possibilities.
In this part i try to imagine everything possible even the worst scenarios.

First of all, zijin took us to the ICC and it looks like they have very good and expensive lawyers. If the laws are so clear why are they doing this?

1. they think they have chances, otherwise they would just waste money. I don't think they are so stupid
2. it's a tactical plan to prevent the granting of the PE until we have no money, get delisted or a new formed government in 2024 kicks us out
3. they think they did nothing wrong and just want that 15% and are ready to start the project and are pissed because AVZ I do not want that
4. it's the beginning of a hostile takeover in the next years

I'm not worried about the dathomir case, I think we'll definitely win this one. I just hope that would not a reason for cami to delay the process further.

Relating to MMCS, I think we have the possibility to make a deal with them and pay some money or we took cominiere to ICC, and the next shit will take years to solve. I dont think MMCS will step down from their 5% after all these years fighting.

Our Main Problem: TIME!


I understand the management absolutely I would not want to work with crooks, but what do you get out of it if you have to fight the whole thing for many years? You risk losing the project after the next election if the next President is on the chinese side. And you could lose any chance of making money or helping your shareholders and the population. Even if we have to deal with Zijin it's still better than ending up with nothing.

1. So we can fight until the end, this could take many years. I don't think zijin will just give up on icc....never, they have time and money.
2. We make a deal with MMCS to ensure the 10% can cede to the state and we get the ML and can fight agains zijin/dathomir no matter how long it takes, but this is only possible if we negotiate a new deal with cath and cami still have no problem with it
3. We don't get the ML in reason of all the claims, no one is giving up and we have to come out of voluntary suspension one day befor we get delisted and risk a massive slump in the share price and run the risk of becoming a victim of an hostile takeover. but at one point the price would turn I hope because they have to buy a lot shares. And then they continue fighting, but this is only possible when they dont get kicked out from the next DRC Government and have enought money. To be honest that would really be the dumbest thing the management could do.
4. Zijin giving up
5. The ICC is ruling fast, but I really doubt it. It took 1 fuckin year to open the case and have the first session. MMCS and Cominiere case did not make it to the final hearing after more than 3 years
6. We got delisted one day
7. The DRC helps us and rules agains the MoP and cami
8. we are already forced to fight until the end because the fronts are already too hardened and they will not stop acting against us
9. we work together with Zijin and have 51% AVZ 24% Cath 15% Zijin 10% DRC, make a lot of money and and protect us against a hostile takeover with a very high share price and would have the main control.

There are quiet more possibilities i think. I just hope it's not to late for our managment to make some deals in the worst case and save us and the project. But perhaps they have a Master Plan.....new Cath deal, get Money to give it to MMCS, they give their 5% back, Cominiere can cede the 10% to the state and we get our Mining License and can fight against Zijin and Dathomir until we win it if that is not possible we have the biggest disadvantage, the time against us.

I don't believe the ownership problems are not the reason why we get no ML, cami gave us a important part last year. Maybe that's the problem when cami said: get out of the mess. Yeah, maybe he dont finalise the calculation, but maybe he has a reason or instruction to do so?

A very good thought out assessment of AVZ predicament mate.......

 

[Winenut]

CAMI have a role to play in the favourable opinion process. As the letter from AVZ was written in August 2021 the reference to the risk of conversion to an operating licence was before the approvals were given and the Minister of Mines gave the decree in 2022 imo. Franck Fwamba and other local journalists are adamant that the only thing left for CAMI to do is add up the numbers and print a piece of paper. They have far more knowledge and experience than any of us with how the DRC mining code works.

View attachment 24710

But some here suggest cheeky ol' Nige knows the figure to be $250k - $300k (or roughly thereabouts) for the surface rights

Does he know because he's done his own calc (there is a precribed formula in the DRC mining code) or does he know because he has been advised by CAMI of the figure or seen a copy of the invoice?

Questions questions...

 

[BEISHA]

View attachment 24701

Article 2.1.6 is very illuminating........supports @schusselfussel argument regards to ownership @ cami


imo

 

[Carlos Danger]

But some here suggest cheeky ol' Nige knows the figure to be $250k - $300k (or roughly thereabouts) for the surface rights

Does he know because he's done his own calc (there is a precribed formula in the DRC mining code) or does he know because he has been advised by CAMI of the figure or seen a copy of the invoice?

Questions questions...

There is an amount per square metre in the DRC mining code. Someone posted it here many many pages ago. That's where Nigel is getting his estimate from (range depends on exchange rate of the day). Mupande is using the dispute about the northern part of the tenement to delay the calculation. He wants to calculate just the southern part for AVZ so he can give AJN the rest and get a big fat cut for doing so. But the mining code says that's not what's meant to happen. Focus on the signal instead of the noise.

From the AGM:

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

 

[tonster66]

There is an amount per square metre in the DRC mining code. Someone posted it here many many pages ago. That's where Nigel is getting his estimate from (range depends on exchange rate of the day). Mupande is using the dispute about the northern part of the tenement to delay the calculation. He wants to calculate just the southern part for AVZ so he can give AJN the rest and get a big fat cut for doing so. But the mining code says that's not what's meant to happen. Focus on the signal instead of the noise.

From the AGM:

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

I am pretty sure Nigel stated that CAMI had 5 days to issue the invoice

 

[Sparrowhawk12]

There is an amount per square metre in the DRC mining code. Someone posted it here many many pages ago. That's where Nigel is getting his estimate from (range depends on exchange rate of the day). Mupande is using the dispute about the northern part of the tenement to delay the calculation. He wants to calculate just the southern part for AVZ so he can give AJN the rest and get a big fat cut for doing so. But the mining code says that's not what's meant to happen. Focus on the signal instead of the noise.

From the AGM:

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

Without finding & referring to the details again (someone(s)) posted previous. AVZI / Dathcom took it to a DRC court and CAMI said they were still busy calculating the Surface Rights fee -a lame excuse. I think that was months (6+?) ago???

 

[Samus]

Without finding & referring to the details again (someone(s)) posted previous. AVZI / Dathcom took it to a DRC court and CAMI said they were still busy calculating the Surface Rights fee -a lame excuse. I think that was months (6+?) ago???

What a fucking joke, where are MoM and FT in all this??? Honestly!

 

[Carlos Danger]

What a fucking joke, where are MoM and FT in all this??? Honestly!

 

[Winenut]

Love Christopher Walken

The gold watch story from Pulp Fiction is another of his absolutely classic performances

 

[Winenut]

Without finding & referring to the details again (someone(s)) posted previous. AVZI / Dathcom took it to a DRC court and CAMI said they were still busy calculating the Surface Rights fee -a lame excuse. I think that was months (6+?) ago???

Yes it's a completely fucking lame excuse

Why has nothing progressed from there???

Why hasn't there been unbelievable pressure brough to bear

Why hasn't a fucking blowtorch been applied to all the culprits exposing what a pissweak position/excuse they are claiming for the hold up

Why haven't AVZ got right up into the faces of the people responsible for this crappy and frankly wildly unbelievable pisspoor excuse from CAMI

It's a fucking joke

Shitshow....