AVZ Discussion 2022

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ChrisU

Guest
So you’re suggesting CATL has the power to manipulate market conditions in its favour?
Yes, I don’t have the numbers, however, sodium batteries will have an energy density of about 160kWh/kg. This is considered comparable with LFP. Range in Km, 200km fairly conservative and fast charging.

I’m not seeing much speculation by analysts on how these batteries will change fundamentals, but it will ease lithium demand.

For AVZ the tough market is lithium hydroxide at EV battery grade standards for higher density batteries.
It may not be NCM but lithium metal that is desired for density, I’m not sure if that implies brine lithium will be preferred for a lithium carbonate path.

But clean lithium is key to market competitiveness when prices subside.

Whether CATL supplied from Manono, can dominate pricing, remains to be seen.

It would need to be greater than 10mtpa, I think everyone agrees here
 
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Apologies if this has been posted before (Article is two days old) because I know it takes up a lot of space here. It’s just another example of what other countries think about the DRC and what Nigel is dealing with…. Seems like Dan Gertler is still pulling strings in the DRC and I know Felix let him off the hook recently


Congo-Kinshasa: Tshisekedi Needs to Clean Up His Inner Circle​


Institute for Security Studies (Tshwane/Pretoria)

ANALYSISBy Peter Fabricius
This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.

President Félix Tshisekedi this week waxed lyrical about the opportunities his country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), offered to international investors. He was the keynote speaker at the Financial Times (FT) Africa Summit on investing in Africa.

Tshisekedi extolled the attractions of the DRC's huge reserves of minerals critical to the green industrial revolution, such as cobalt, lithium, copper and chrome. Also, the country's enormous untapped agricultural potential with 80 million hectares of arable land, of which only 10 million had been planted, and the vast potential of the Congo River for creating green hydrogen.

The DRC president acknowledged that international investors could have doubts about the business climate, including questions about institutional strength and the insecurity in the east. But he blamed the latter on Rwanda's 'predatory power' and its support for the 'terrorist' M23 group. Tshisekedi lashed out at the international community, particularly the media, for its 'complicit passivity' in allowing the impression to persist of a continent only of problems.

But is the DRC really so attractive to investors, and is the president helping to make it so? It's common cause that Tshisekedi didn't win the 2018 presidential election and that a deal was struck with outgoing president Joseph Kabila that allowed Kabila to retain considerable power while Tshisekedi got the top job.

The United States (US) and others came to accept that the best they could do in the circumstances was try to ensure power shifted from Kabila to Tshisekedi. The US helped by imposing sanctions on key Kabila allies still ensconced in government.

Tshisekedi acknowledged the alleged deal only by saying he hadn't managed to control Parliament until two years into office by forming his 'sacred union' coalition that ousted Kabila's. At the FT event, Peter Pham, US special envoy to the Great Lakes when Tshisekedi assumed office, observed that Tshisekedi now seemed confident in his presidential power and judged the transition a success.

Many questions nonetheless remain about the degree of that success. One is why international investment has not flooded into a country so brimming with potential. When asked for an update on the almost mythical Grand Inga Hydropower Project, Tshisekedi surprisingly professed himself mystified about the decades-long delays. He described the foreign investors who had shown interest, including a Chinese-Spanish consortium, a former World Bank official and most recently, the Australian company Fortescue.

Tshisekedi again seemed to blame international investors and perhaps governments, suggesting that the project would go ahead if the US and Europe were involved. He agreed this meant the delay was 'political' saying: 'I think there are some problems at the international level because I see no one wanted him (Fortescue boss Andrew Forest) to go alone to the DRC and to do something about it.

But is that the only obstacle to the investments the DRC badly needs, in Inga and otherwise? Is it all about international politics and rivalries among foreign powers as the president seemed to imply?

The continuing saga of Dan Gertler suggests something else is afoot. Gertler is the Israeli businessman who 'amassed his fortune through hundreds of dollars worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals' in the DRC, as the US Treasury said when it froze his US assets in 2017. It said he used his friendship with Kabila to buy mining assets at below market value and sell them at massive profit. Presumably Kabila and his cronies took big cuts in the deals.

Gertler persuaded the Trump administration to suspend those sanctions, but the Biden administration reinstatedthem almost immediately. The US seems determined to dislodge Gertler's grip on the DRC as a first step in cleaning out the massive corruption that has bedevilled the country, especially under Kabila.

But Gertler is a determined individual 'who is doing all that he can to remove the obstacles that prevent him doing further business in the DRC,' Stephanie Wolters, DRC expert at the South African Institute of International Affairs told ISS Today. And that's because, as she notes, Gertler is a 'one-horse show. The DRC is his entire career as a multi-billionaire.'

In February the DRC announced it had done a deal with Gertler in which he had to surrender to the state billions of dollars of assets in exchange for the reimbursement of expenses and Kinshasa's support in lifting the US sanctions. But neither side has published the full deal, raising suspicions in DRC that it's a better deal for Gertler than Tshisekedi's government cares to admit.

And this week, Africa Intelligence revealed that Gertler seems prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain his influence in the Tshisekedi administration. That would strongly suggest he still has contentious commercial ambitions in the country.

The bulletin reported that Gertler launched sting operations against senior officials in Tshisekedi's inner circle who were acting against his interests. Africa Intelligence said Gertler used private eyes masquerading as potential investors to lure Tshisekedi's oil minister Didier Budimbu Ntubuanga and his presidential adviser Vidiye Tshimanga to meetings in Brussels and London respectively. Both were supposedly recorded taking bribes and forced to resign.

So Wolters says Gertler's efforts to intimidate potential enemies around Tshisekedi seem to have worked. 'Other ministers who are not on his side are feeling increasingly threatened and are increasing their own security.'

Where does Tshisekedi stand on this? Wolters notes: 'He can't do business with Gertler unless he chooses to turn his back on or face the wrath of the US.' She added that Tshisekedi 'seems to want to support Gertler's effort to get sanctions dropped, but it's a very delicate matter and Tshisekedi needs to tread carefully because the US is a really important supporter of the Congolese government.' All this intrigue leaves doubts about Tshisekedi's true intentions for Gertler.

Instead of making extravagant claims about the DRC's investment opportunities and blaming the lack of investment on prejudices about Africa, Tshisekedi should firmly and transparently get rid of the likes of Gertler. How can he expect honest investors to sink their funds into such a murky cesspool?

Peter Fabricius, Consultant, ISS Pretoria
Read the original article on ISS.
Thanks MB, great find & share. Felix must get rid of any Gertler influence/control. I'm sure it takes time to do this successfully. There can't be many DRC team/leaders that Felix can trust 100% (Didier, Vidiye ...) ??
 
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cruiser51

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If the first Roadshow is 31/10 evening in Perth (that is 6 trading days included the 31/10) and there are no further ASX announcements coming week, what are they going to bloody talk about?

The current weather in Manono? If the local Macca's is up to scratch? The performing arts in the local Moulin Rouge?

In other words, if the Roadshow is still on, can we expect some meaningful ASX communication this week?

Or are they going to keep their cards close to their chest till the end of trading 31/5, it would really set the right atmosphere for an Informative evening.
I mean SH's should be given some time to digest the news, not 'here it is now fuck off'

I am not going to a road show to be informed, face to face, that the suspension is extended by another 2 weeks, I have better things to do.
 
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DiscoDanNZ

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If the first Roadshow is 31/10 evening in Perth (that is 6 trading days included the 31/10) and there are no further ASX announcements coming week, what are they going to bloody talk about?

The current weather in Manono? If the local Macca's is up to scratch? The performing arts in the local Moulin Rouge?

In other words, if the Roadshow is still on, can we expect some meaningful ASX communication this week?

Or are they going to keep their cards close to their chest till the end of trading 31/5, it would really set the right atmosphere for an Informative evening.
I mean SH's should be given some time to digest the news, not 'here it is now fuck off'

I am not going to a road show to be informed, face to face, that the suspension is extended by another 2 weeks, I have better things to do.

I imagine it goes exactly like this but replace "well" with imminent.

 
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If the first Roadshow is 31/10 evening in Perth (that is 6 trading days included the 31/10) and there are no further ASX announcements coming week, what are they going to bloody talk about?

The current weather in Manono? If the local Macca's is up to scratch? The performing arts in the local Moulin Rouge?

In other words, if the Roadshow is still on, can we expect some meaningful ASX communication this week?

Or are they going to keep their cards close to their chest till the end of trading 31/5, it would really set the right atmosphere for an Informative evening.
I mean SH's should be given some time to digest the news, not 'here it is now fuck off'

I am not going to a road show to be informed, face to face, that the suspension is extended by another 2 weeks, I have better things to do.
Especially when it is the first of 5 roadshows in the following 2 weeks. What will they talk about for the rest of the tour dates if there is no new information and we are still suspended?

They are basically running the old Big Day Out schedule so they better have something good to tell us that is worth the cost and the time taken away from the work they should be doing in the DRC if things aren't sorted.

There has to be a decent announcement that they plan on releasing to the market this week or on the 31st for them to be doing this. It is unfathomable that they would organise these events before the AGM without some substantial news.
 
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CHB

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If the first Roadshow is 31/10 evening in Perth (that is 6 trading days included the 31/10) and there are no further ASX announcements coming week, what are they going to bloody talk about?

The current weather in Manono? If the local Macca's is up to scratch? The performing arts in the local Moulin Rouge?

In other words, if the Roadshow is still on, can we expect some meaningful ASX communication this week?

Or are they going to keep their cards close to their chest till the end of trading 31/5, it would really set the right atmosphere for an Informative evening.
I mean SH's should be given some time to digest the news, not 'here it is now fuck off'

I am not going to a road show to be informed, face to face, that the suspension is extended by another 2 weeks, I have better things to do.

My bet is ML this week.

No chance in hell they'd go to roadshow with no confirmation we're going to mine it.

IMO
 
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DiscoDanNZ

Regular
My bet is ML this week.

No chance in hell they'd go to roadshow with no confirmation we're going to mine it.

IMO

I just don't see it happening though, you'd have to have absolute certainty that it's coming to put your balls on the line and organise the roadshow based around that. Apparently even a Ministerial Decree doesn't mean shit from these guys.

I'm sure we're going to have some positive news coming into or from it but the only thing you would have enough certainty of would have to be coming from the company itself.

So in saying that it can't be SEZ or anything with the DRC as the source so whats left? Revised BFS? Original timeline wise we should have been expecting FID around now shouldn't we? That's putting the cart before the horse has even been conceived on what's happening to our timeline now though...


OR dare I say it........... They are going to present a TO offer to the more important larger holders?
 
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wombat74

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I just don't see it happening though, you'd have to have absolute certainty that it's coming to put your balls on the line and organise the roadshow based around that. Apparently even a Ministerial Decree doesn't mean shit from these guys.

I'm sure we're going to have some positive news coming into or from it but the only thing you would have enough certainty of would have to be coming from the company itself.

So in saying that it can't be SEZ or anything with the DRC as the source so whats left? Revised BFS? Original timeline wise we should have been expecting FID around now shouldn't we? That's putting the cart before the horse has even been conceived on what's happening to our timeline now though...


OR dare I say it........... They are going to present a TO offer to the more important larger holders?
Give me that TO . Who's out of here for $1.50 ?
 
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DiscoDanNZ

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Give me that TO . Who's out of here for $1.50 ?

Yeah I'll take that, I was in this for the long haul but so far the longest stage of the haul has been suspension.

I'd be happy, ATO would be happy...
 
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Helios

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Give me that TO . Who's out of here for $1.50 ?
Fuck that. Held since late 2017. Held through Klauss. Ill hold through this crap. $1.50, mcap 5bil ish, TO at 15bil and I'll be happy.
 
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Doc

Master of Quan
Come on AVZ, you’re late to your own party!!!

75712CAD-44AF-4F84-882C-886C0D3942D3.jpeg
 
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CHB

Regular
Give me that TO . Who's out of here for $1.50 ?
No thx. Might as well fight till the end, even if that's $0.

The upside is far too great to give it up for bugger all.
 
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CHB

Regular
I just don't see it happening though, you'd have to have absolute certainty that it's coming to put your balls on the line and organise the roadshow based around that. Apparently even a Ministerial Decree doesn't mean shit from these guys.

I'm sure we're going to have some positive news coming into or from it but the only thing you would have enough certainty of would have to be coming from the company itself.

So in saying that it can't be SEZ or anything with the DRC as the source so whats left? Revised BFS? Original timeline wise we should have been expecting FID around now shouldn't we? That's putting the cart before the horse has even been conceived on what's happening to our timeline now though...


OR dare I say it........... They are going to present a TO offer to the more important larger holders?

Agreed, they'd have to have certainty. It wouldn't surprise me if some date has been tee'd up which has led them to be confident to organise a roadshow.
 
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For everyone out there who keeps commenting on the Roadshow, I think you all need to have a good read of @Sammy_da_Smile’s post…. It gives the best description of what’s been happening that I’ve seen.

In addition to that, I doubt there’s much chance of getting the ML while the ownership issues remain unresolved in the courts. Surface rights (PR & PE) have to be determined before they can be paid and before a ML can be issued.

Only reason for Roadshows in my opinion is to explain the above, and also try and prevent shareholder revolt against the BOD and executives which would cause chaos and embarrassment for the company on a stage that will be viewed internationally.

See that @Winenut(s) no swearing!
 
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JasonM

Regular
For everyone out there who keeps commenting on the Roadshow, I think you all need to have a good read of @Sammy_da_Smile’s post…. It gives the best description of what’s been happening that I’ve seen.

In addition to that, I doubt there’s much chance of getting the ML while the ownership issues remain unresolved in the courts. Surface rights (PR & PE) have to be determined before they can be paid and before a ML can be issued.

Only reason for Roadshows in my opinion is to explain the above, and also try and prevent shareholder revolt against the BOD and executives which would cause chaos and embarrassment for the company on a stage that will be viewed internationally.

See that @Winenut(s) no swearing!
nope, ML this week.
 
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Aeolian

Member
For everyone out there who keeps commenting on the Roadshow, I think you all need to have a good read of @Sammy_da_Smile’s post…. It gives the best description of what’s been happening that I’ve seen.

In addition to that, I doubt there’s much chance of getting the ML while the ownership issues remain unresolved in the courts. Surface rights (PR & PE) have to be determined before they can be paid and before a ML can be issued.

Only reason for Roadshows in my opinion is to explain the above, and also try and prevent shareholder revolt against the BOD and executives which would cause chaos and embarrassment for the company on a stage that will be viewed internationally.

See that @Winenut(s) no swearing!
Which post of Sammy_da_Smile’s are you referring to?
 
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Azzler

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D

Deleted member 2428

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Yeah I'll take that, I was in this for the long haul but so far the longest stage of the haul has been suspension.

I'd be happy, ATO would be happy...
Ditto, I want out 🤞
 
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Flight996

Regular
I just don't see it happening though, you'd have to have absolute certainty that it's coming to put your balls on the line and organise the roadshow based around that. Apparently even a Ministerial Decree doesn't mean shit from these guys.

I'm sure we're going to have some positive news coming into or from it but the only thing you would have enough certainty of would have to be coming from the company itself.

So in saying that it can't be SEZ or anything with the DRC as the source so whats left? Revised BFS? Original timeline wise we should have been expecting FID around now shouldn't we? That's putting the cart before the horse has even been conceived on what's happening to our timeline now though...


OR dare I say it........... They are going to present a TO offer to the more important larger holders?
Hi DiscoDanNZ

Re: OR dare I say it........... They are going to present a TO offer to the more important larger holders?

I think the company cannot sit on that sort of price sensitive news, and release it at a roadshow for selected shareholders only. The company is obligated to release it at the earliest possible opportunity to all shareholders. To do otherwise is a breach of its continuous disclosure obligations.

Cheers
F
 
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