AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Winenut
Go AVZ!
Why, thank you Sir
Bray
Regular
After a long night of being smashed by fucking midgies.. my first thought this morning was, what IF the roadshows are AVZ way of letting all the big dogs know to their face that we are indeed fucked and they plan on resuming trading without our beloved ML so get ready to get what you can from the sell off..
It’s highly possible the midgie pain is distorting my thoughts..
It’s highly possible the midgie pain is distorting my thoughts..
Azzler
Top 20
Fear makes all sorts of frightening scenarios appear in our minds.
I've had a few bolt upright in bed late at night moments over these months.
You just have to retrace your steps, think through all the information we know, calmly evaluate what's more likely to happen and factor in all macro events.
When I do this I return to calm, and get excited about my investment once again.
If you think about what you're proposing, it doesn't make any sense.
We find out real soon anyway.
D
Deleted member 1612
Guest
As everyone says, DRC corruption is well known and rife. Considering this, do you think AVZ being troublemakers would work in their favour or do you think the DRC could just paper bag their way to ripping up the decree and telling us to fuck off in whatever way they can conjure, with the help of their Chinese mates. We all have good reason to be pissed, and we all want AVZ to answer questions, but I personally think they have stayed quiet because it’s the only way to play this game. If you worked for the mafia and they dodgied a deal, would you make a public announcement and tell everyone? No, you’d keep your head low and find a respectful way of getting the outcome you need.
It’s shit, no doubt about it but I just don’t think there’s another way. I just wish there was a way for them to get an S.O.S out to shareholders to say it’s okay guys, before all lose our fucking minds. I’m as fucking over it as everyone. I don’t have a million shares like many in here but like most, my future stands at the fork road of AVZ. I just want to get through it and not lose it all at this point.
It’s shit, no doubt about it but I just don’t think there’s another way. I just wish there was a way for them to get an S.O.S out to shareholders to say it’s okay guys, before all lose our fucking minds. I’m as fucking over it as everyone. I don’t have a million shares like many in here but like most, my future stands at the fork road of AVZ. I just want to get through it and not lose it all at this point.
They would cancel the Road Show if they thought SH were going to be hostile . AGM has to go ahead but 3 or 4 burly security guards would sort that out .
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
Why, thank you Sir
I notice our mate @one nut has been a bit quiet since apologising before using some very appalling language…. I hope he follows our example
Perhaps even a new Mantle could be introduced
Then no point going around the country and to NZ then . The cat will already be out of the bag after the first meeting . No, I think this is either a victory tour or a rally the troupes confidence tour . It's definitely not a Doom and gloom tour .
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Exactly . These guys have years and years of experience in Africa . They know how things roll . We also have Serge who is a local . Plus our local Legal team . I think between them they know how the game is played .
For the Road Show they could contract the travellin brothers for security and light entertainment.
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
Apologies if this has been posted before (Article is two days old) because I know it takes up a lot of space here. It’s just another example of what other countries think about the DRC and what Nigel is dealing with…. Seems like Dan Gertler is still pulling strings in the DRC and I know Felix let him off the hook recently
allafrica.com
Institute for Security Studies (Tshwane/Pretoria)
ANALYSISBy Peter Fabricius
This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.
President Félix Tshisekedi this week waxed lyrical about the opportunities his country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), offered to international investors. He was the keynote speaker at the Financial Times (FT) Africa Summit on investing in Africa.
Tshisekedi extolled the attractions of the DRC's huge reserves of minerals critical to the green industrial revolution, such as cobalt, lithium, copper and chrome. Also, the country's enormous untapped agricultural potential with 80 million hectares of arable land, of which only 10 million had been planted, and the vast potential of the Congo River for creating green hydrogen.
The DRC president acknowledged that international investors could have doubts about the business climate, including questions about institutional strength and the insecurity in the east. But he blamed the latter on Rwanda's 'predatory power' and its support for the 'terrorist' M23 group. Tshisekedi lashed out at the international community, particularly the media, for its 'complicit passivity' in allowing the impression to persist of a continent only of problems.
But is the DRC really so attractive to investors, and is the president helping to make it so? It's common cause that Tshisekedi didn't win the 2018 presidential election and that a deal was struck with outgoing president Joseph Kabila that allowed Kabila to retain considerable power while Tshisekedi got the top job.
The United States (US) and others came to accept that the best they could do in the circumstances was try to ensure power shifted from Kabila to Tshisekedi. The US helped by imposing sanctions on key Kabila allies still ensconced in government.
Tshisekedi acknowledged the alleged deal only by saying he hadn't managed to control Parliament until two years into office by forming his 'sacred union' coalition that ousted Kabila's. At the FT event, Peter Pham, US special envoy to the Great Lakes when Tshisekedi assumed office, observed that Tshisekedi now seemed confident in his presidential power and judged the transition a success.
Many questions nonetheless remain about the degree of that success. One is why international investment has not flooded into a country so brimming with potential. When asked for an update on the almost mythical Grand Inga Hydropower Project, Tshisekedi surprisingly professed himself mystified about the decades-long delays. He described the foreign investors who had shown interest, including a Chinese-Spanish consortium, a former World Bank official and most recently, the Australian company Fortescue.
Tshisekedi again seemed to blame international investors and perhaps governments, suggesting that the project would go ahead if the US and Europe were involved. He agreed this meant the delay was 'political' saying: 'I think there are some problems at the international level because I see no one wanted him (Fortescue boss Andrew Forest) to go alone to the DRC and to do something about it.
But is that the only obstacle to the investments the DRC badly needs, in Inga and otherwise? Is it all about international politics and rivalries among foreign powers as the president seemed to imply?
The continuing saga of Dan Gertler suggests something else is afoot. Gertler is the Israeli businessman who 'amassed his fortune through hundreds of dollars worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals' in the DRC, as the US Treasury said when it froze his US assets in 2017. It said he used his friendship with Kabila to buy mining assets at below market value and sell them at massive profit. Presumably Kabila and his cronies took big cuts in the deals.
Gertler persuaded the Trump administration to suspend those sanctions, but the Biden administration reinstatedthem almost immediately. The US seems determined to dislodge Gertler's grip on the DRC as a first step in cleaning out the massive corruption that has bedevilled the country, especially under Kabila.
But Gertler is a determined individual 'who is doing all that he can to remove the obstacles that prevent him doing further business in the DRC,' Stephanie Wolters, DRC expert at the South African Institute of International Affairs told ISS Today. And that's because, as she notes, Gertler is a 'one-horse show. The DRC is his entire career as a multi-billionaire.'
In February the DRC announced it had done a deal with Gertler in which he had to surrender to the state billions of dollars of assets in exchange for the reimbursement of expenses and Kinshasa's support in lifting the US sanctions. But neither side has published the full deal, raising suspicions in DRC that it's a better deal for Gertler than Tshisekedi's government cares to admit.
And this week, Africa Intelligence revealed that Gertler seems prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain his influence in the Tshisekedi administration. That would strongly suggest he still has contentious commercial ambitions in the country.
The bulletin reported that Gertler launched sting operations against senior officials in Tshisekedi's inner circle who were acting against his interests. Africa Intelligence said Gertler used private eyes masquerading as potential investors to lure Tshisekedi's oil minister Didier Budimbu Ntubuanga and his presidential adviser Vidiye Tshimanga to meetings in Brussels and London respectively. Both were supposedly recorded taking bribes and forced to resign.
So Wolters says Gertler's efforts to intimidate potential enemies around Tshisekedi seem to have worked. 'Other ministers who are not on his side are feeling increasingly threatened and are increasing their own security.'
Where does Tshisekedi stand on this? Wolters notes: 'He can't do business with Gertler unless he chooses to turn his back on or face the wrath of the US.' She added that Tshisekedi 'seems to want to support Gertler's effort to get sanctions dropped, but it's a very delicate matter and Tshisekedi needs to tread carefully because the US is a really important supporter of the Congolese government.' All this intrigue leaves doubts about Tshisekedi's true intentions for Gertler.
Instead of making extravagant claims about the DRC's investment opportunities and blaming the lack of investment on prejudices about Africa, Tshisekedi should firmly and transparently get rid of the likes of Gertler. How can he expect honest investors to sink their funds into such a murky cesspool?
Peter Fabricius, Consultant, ISS Pretoria
Read the original article on ISS.
Congo-Kinshasa: Tshisekedi Needs to Clean Up His Inner Circle
Analysis - This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.
Congo-Kinshasa: Tshisekedi Needs to Clean Up His Inner Circle
Institute for Security Studies (Tshwane/Pretoria)
ANALYSISBy Peter Fabricius
This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.
President Félix Tshisekedi this week waxed lyrical about the opportunities his country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), offered to international investors. He was the keynote speaker at the Financial Times (FT) Africa Summit on investing in Africa.
Tshisekedi extolled the attractions of the DRC's huge reserves of minerals critical to the green industrial revolution, such as cobalt, lithium, copper and chrome. Also, the country's enormous untapped agricultural potential with 80 million hectares of arable land, of which only 10 million had been planted, and the vast potential of the Congo River for creating green hydrogen.
The DRC president acknowledged that international investors could have doubts about the business climate, including questions about institutional strength and the insecurity in the east. But he blamed the latter on Rwanda's 'predatory power' and its support for the 'terrorist' M23 group. Tshisekedi lashed out at the international community, particularly the media, for its 'complicit passivity' in allowing the impression to persist of a continent only of problems.
But is the DRC really so attractive to investors, and is the president helping to make it so? It's common cause that Tshisekedi didn't win the 2018 presidential election and that a deal was struck with outgoing president Joseph Kabila that allowed Kabila to retain considerable power while Tshisekedi got the top job.
The United States (US) and others came to accept that the best they could do in the circumstances was try to ensure power shifted from Kabila to Tshisekedi. The US helped by imposing sanctions on key Kabila allies still ensconced in government.
Tshisekedi acknowledged the alleged deal only by saying he hadn't managed to control Parliament until two years into office by forming his 'sacred union' coalition that ousted Kabila's. At the FT event, Peter Pham, US special envoy to the Great Lakes when Tshisekedi assumed office, observed that Tshisekedi now seemed confident in his presidential power and judged the transition a success.
Many questions nonetheless remain about the degree of that success. One is why international investment has not flooded into a country so brimming with potential. When asked for an update on the almost mythical Grand Inga Hydropower Project, Tshisekedi surprisingly professed himself mystified about the decades-long delays. He described the foreign investors who had shown interest, including a Chinese-Spanish consortium, a former World Bank official and most recently, the Australian company Fortescue.
Tshisekedi again seemed to blame international investors and perhaps governments, suggesting that the project would go ahead if the US and Europe were involved. He agreed this meant the delay was 'political' saying: 'I think there are some problems at the international level because I see no one wanted him (Fortescue boss Andrew Forest) to go alone to the DRC and to do something about it.
But is that the only obstacle to the investments the DRC badly needs, in Inga and otherwise? Is it all about international politics and rivalries among foreign powers as the president seemed to imply?
The continuing saga of Dan Gertler suggests something else is afoot. Gertler is the Israeli businessman who 'amassed his fortune through hundreds of dollars worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals' in the DRC, as the US Treasury said when it froze his US assets in 2017. It said he used his friendship with Kabila to buy mining assets at below market value and sell them at massive profit. Presumably Kabila and his cronies took big cuts in the deals.
Gertler persuaded the Trump administration to suspend those sanctions, but the Biden administration reinstatedthem almost immediately. The US seems determined to dislodge Gertler's grip on the DRC as a first step in cleaning out the massive corruption that has bedevilled the country, especially under Kabila.
But Gertler is a determined individual 'who is doing all that he can to remove the obstacles that prevent him doing further business in the DRC,' Stephanie Wolters, DRC expert at the South African Institute of International Affairs told ISS Today. And that's because, as she notes, Gertler is a 'one-horse show. The DRC is his entire career as a multi-billionaire.'
In February the DRC announced it had done a deal with Gertler in which he had to surrender to the state billions of dollars of assets in exchange for the reimbursement of expenses and Kinshasa's support in lifting the US sanctions. But neither side has published the full deal, raising suspicions in DRC that it's a better deal for Gertler than Tshisekedi's government cares to admit.
And this week, Africa Intelligence revealed that Gertler seems prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain his influence in the Tshisekedi administration. That would strongly suggest he still has contentious commercial ambitions in the country.
The bulletin reported that Gertler launched sting operations against senior officials in Tshisekedi's inner circle who were acting against his interests. Africa Intelligence said Gertler used private eyes masquerading as potential investors to lure Tshisekedi's oil minister Didier Budimbu Ntubuanga and his presidential adviser Vidiye Tshimanga to meetings in Brussels and London respectively. Both were supposedly recorded taking bribes and forced to resign.
So Wolters says Gertler's efforts to intimidate potential enemies around Tshisekedi seem to have worked. 'Other ministers who are not on his side are feeling increasingly threatened and are increasing their own security.'
Where does Tshisekedi stand on this? Wolters notes: 'He can't do business with Gertler unless he chooses to turn his back on or face the wrath of the US.' She added that Tshisekedi 'seems to want to support Gertler's effort to get sanctions dropped, but it's a very delicate matter and Tshisekedi needs to tread carefully because the US is a really important supporter of the Congolese government.' All this intrigue leaves doubts about Tshisekedi's true intentions for Gertler.
Instead of making extravagant claims about the DRC's investment opportunities and blaming the lack of investment on prejudices about Africa, Tshisekedi should firmly and transparently get rid of the likes of Gertler. How can he expect honest investors to sink their funds into such a murky cesspool?
Peter Fabricius, Consultant, ISS Pretoria
Read the original article on ISS.
Last edited:
Samus
Top 20
Well I also must apologise for my lack of decorum in this regard to those who are sensitive to foul language.
However blatant trolls still hanging around after repeated troll posts is about enough to tip one over the edge at this point.
It's important that the real trolls are booted in accordance with the tse philosophy otherwise they're fair game imo or this turns into another crapper.
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
Well I also must apologise for my lack of decorum in this regard to those who are sensitive to foul language.
However blatant trolls still hanging around after repeated troll posts is about enough to tip one over the edge at this point.
It's important that the real trolls are booted in accordance with the tse philosophy otherwise they're fair game imo or this turns into another crapper.
View attachment 19759
A thousand apologies Sam for not giving you an honourable mention amongst those vying for the mantle, the list just keeps on growing
David holland
Regular
I just hope the company lay everything on the table and report it accurately, these business heads have a good way of putting spin on it and deflecting, its a skill and some refuse to acknowledge a worker or a shareholder, their self interest somewhat blurs there responsibilitiesA thousand apologies Sam for not giving you an honourable mention amongst those vying for the mantle, the list just keeps on growing
Apologies if this has been posted before (Article is two days old) because I know it takes up a lot of space here. It’s just another example of what other countries think about the DRC and what Nigel is dealing with…. Seems like Dan Gertler is still pulling strings in the DRC and I know Felix let him off the hook recently
Congo-Kinshasa: Tshisekedi Needs to Clean Up His Inner Circle
Analysis - This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.
Congo-Kinshasa: Tshisekedi Needs to Clean Up His Inner Circle
Institute for Security Studies (Tshwane/Pretoria)
ANALYSISBy Peter Fabricius
This could help remedy the lack of international investment in the DRC - a country brimming with potential.
President Félix Tshisekedi this week waxed lyrical about the opportunities his country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), offered to international investors. He was the keynote speaker at the Financial Times (FT) Africa Summit on investing in Africa.
Tshisekedi extolled the attractions of the DRC's huge reserves of minerals critical to the green industrial revolution, such as cobalt, lithium, copper and chrome. Also, the country's enormous untapped agricultural potential with 80 million hectares of arable land, of which only 10 million had been planted, and the vast potential of the Congo River for creating green hydrogen.
The DRC president acknowledged that international investors could have doubts about the business climate, including questions about institutional strength and the insecurity in the east. But he blamed the latter on Rwanda's 'predatory power' and its support for the 'terrorist' M23 group. Tshisekedi lashed out at the international community, particularly the media, for its 'complicit passivity' in allowing the impression to persist of a continent only of problems.
But is the DRC really so attractive to investors, and is the president helping to make it so? It's common cause that Tshisekedi didn't win the 2018 presidential election and that a deal was struck with outgoing president Joseph Kabila that allowed Kabila to retain considerable power while Tshisekedi got the top job.
The United States (US) and others came to accept that the best they could do in the circumstances was try to ensure power shifted from Kabila to Tshisekedi. The US helped by imposing sanctions on key Kabila allies still ensconced in government.
Tshisekedi acknowledged the alleged deal only by saying he hadn't managed to control Parliament until two years into office by forming his 'sacred union' coalition that ousted Kabila's. At the FT event, Peter Pham, US special envoy to the Great Lakes when Tshisekedi assumed office, observed that Tshisekedi now seemed confident in his presidential power and judged the transition a success.
Many questions nonetheless remain about the degree of that success. One is why international investment has not flooded into a country so brimming with potential. When asked for an update on the almost mythical Grand Inga Hydropower Project, Tshisekedi surprisingly professed himself mystified about the decades-long delays. He described the foreign investors who had shown interest, including a Chinese-Spanish consortium, a former World Bank official and most recently, the Australian company Fortescue.
Tshisekedi again seemed to blame international investors and perhaps governments, suggesting that the project would go ahead if the US and Europe were involved. He agreed this meant the delay was 'political' saying: 'I think there are some problems at the international level because I see no one wanted him (Fortescue boss Andrew Forest) to go alone to the DRC and to do something about it.
But is that the only obstacle to the investments the DRC badly needs, in Inga and otherwise? Is it all about international politics and rivalries among foreign powers as the president seemed to imply?
The continuing saga of Dan Gertler suggests something else is afoot. Gertler is the Israeli businessman who 'amassed his fortune through hundreds of dollars worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals' in the DRC, as the US Treasury said when it froze his US assets in 2017. It said he used his friendship with Kabila to buy mining assets at below market value and sell them at massive profit. Presumably Kabila and his cronies took big cuts in the deals.
Gertler persuaded the Trump administration to suspend those sanctions, but the Biden administration reinstatedthem almost immediately. The US seems determined to dislodge Gertler's grip on the DRC as a first step in cleaning out the massive corruption that has bedevilled the country, especially under Kabila.
But Gertler is a determined individual 'who is doing all that he can to remove the obstacles that prevent him doing further business in the DRC,' Stephanie Wolters, DRC expert at the South African Institute of International Affairs told ISS Today. And that's because, as she notes, Gertler is a 'one-horse show. The DRC is his entire career as a multi-billionaire.'
In February the DRC announced it had done a deal with Gertler in which he had to surrender to the state billions of dollars of assets in exchange for the reimbursement of expenses and Kinshasa's support in lifting the US sanctions. But neither side has published the full deal, raising suspicions in DRC that it's a better deal for Gertler than Tshisekedi's government cares to admit.
And this week, Africa Intelligence revealed that Gertler seems prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain his influence in the Tshisekedi administration. That would strongly suggest he still has contentious commercial ambitions in the country.
The bulletin reported that Gertler launched sting operations against senior officials in Tshisekedi's inner circle who were acting against his interests. Africa Intelligence said Gertler used private eyes masquerading as potential investors to lure Tshisekedi's oil minister Didier Budimbu Ntubuanga and his presidential adviser Vidiye Tshimanga to meetings in Brussels and London respectively. Both were supposedly recorded taking bribes and forced to resign.
So Wolters says Gertler's efforts to intimidate potential enemies around Tshisekedi seem to have worked. 'Other ministers who are not on his side are feeling increasingly threatened and are increasing their own security.'
Where does Tshisekedi stand on this? Wolters notes: 'He can't do business with Gertler unless he chooses to turn his back on or face the wrath of the US.' She added that Tshisekedi 'seems to want to support Gertler's effort to get sanctions dropped, but it's a very delicate matter and Tshisekedi needs to tread carefully because the US is a really important supporter of the Congolese government.' All this intrigue leaves doubts about Tshisekedi's true intentions for Gertler.
Instead of making extravagant claims about the DRC's investment opportunities and blaming the lack of investment on prejudices about Africa, Tshisekedi should firmly and transparently get rid of the likes of Gertler. How can he expect honest investors to sink their funds into such a murky cesspool?
Peter Fabricius, Consultant, ISS Pretoria
Read the original article on ISS.
Very interesting article, thanks for posting.
I believe there isn't going to be any real and action or improvement in the corruption climate anytime soon. Partly because everybody has too much knowledge regarding each other's affairs, with politicians and government employees enjoying apparant powerful top-cover (whether through leverage, financial benefit, or patronage), or more importantly, because its tied in so closely with politics and DRCs power structures.
I am doubtful now whether FT intends to deliver on his anti corruption campaign promises, and certainly not in the lead up to the next elections where he likely can't afford to put potential supporters offside. There's been no real indication of any concrete effort to clean up shop - if anything the latter, with IGF recommendations going repeatedly ignored, and high-visibility corruption arrests being overturned or the offenders released under cozy 'House arrest' or bail arrangements, never to be seen in court again.
What does this mean for AVZ? I think we are going to have to muddle through on our own, I can't see there being any major executive action conducted on our behalf in the near term, and I can't see any significant steps veing taken against the likes of CAMI or Cominiere. Window dressing only, I feel.
MoneyBags1348
Top 20
I’m still positive on our prospects Roon, and feel the most important thing is to keep this type of information front and centre in the headlines, especially regarding the IGF Report
The only thing I have been really dirty on was the Roadshow two weeks before the AGM for my own specific reasons which I have stated here before…. But overall I still see positive news coming out from those sharing information in the DRC
Speaking of ‘out’ it’s over and out from me for the day
Frank
Top 20
Well I also must apologise for my lack of decorum in this regard to those who are sensitive to foul language.
However blatant trolls still hanging around after repeated troll posts is about enough to tip one over the edge at this point.
It's important that the real trolls are booted in accordance with the tse philosophy otherwise they're fair game imo or this turns into another crapper.
View attachment 19759
Relax mate, One application of this shit
Problem solved Sam
Your Welcome
Frank
Frank
Top 20
English-speaking tour of the Head of State: After London and Ghana, Felix Tshisekedi expected in Nigeria and Tanzania
The Head of State of the Democratic Republic of the Congo continues his English-speaking tour focused mainly on strengthening bilateral cooperation.
After London and Ghana, Felix Tshisekedi is expected in Nigeria and Tanzania in the hours that follow.
During his talks with the Nigerian and Tanzanian Presidents, Félix Tshisekedi will surely raise the issue of global warming and the security situation in eastern DRC.
As a reminder, the Congolese Head of State had asked King Charles III to use his influence within the Commonwealth and with Rwanda in particular to put an end to the actions of destabilization in the East of the DRC and to promote peace, security and stability in Africa's great lakes.
The Head of State of the Democratic Republic of the Congo continues his English-speaking tour focused mainly on strengthening bilateral cooperation.
After London and Ghana, Felix Tshisekedi is expected in Nigeria and Tanzania in the hours that follow.
During his talks with the Nigerian and Tanzanian Presidents, Félix Tshisekedi will surely raise the issue of global warming and the security situation in eastern DRC.
As a reminder, the Congolese Head of State had asked King Charles III to use his influence within the Commonwealth and with Rwanda in particular to put an end to the actions of destabilization in the East of the DRC and to promote peace, security and stability in Africa's great lakes.
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