AVZ Discussion 2022

[mikejoho]

For what seems to be a universal dispute resolution mechanism in international contracts, the ICC and ICSID are made to look like toothless tigers. The blatant disregard shown by Celestin Kibeya and Comminere for the interim orders is contempt at the highest order, not just for AVZ but for these ruling bodies. He is mocking the interim orders by presenting at this conference and pretending that he is untouchable.
IMO, he is forcing them into a position where they will have to bare their teeth, for their own credibility. How many times can the bear be poked

 

[Roon]

For what seems to be a universal dispute resolution mechanism in international contracts, the ICC and ICSID are made to look like toothless tigers. The blatant disregard shown by Celestin Kibeya and Comminere for the interim orders is contempt at the highest order, not just for AVZ but for these ruling bodies. He is mocking the interim orders by presenting at this conference and pretending that he is untouchable.
IMO, he is forcing them into a position where they will have to bare their teeth, for their own credibility. How many times can the bear be poked

Given that the MoM would be required to sign off on the progress of an exploration permit to a PE, this also means that its not just Cominiere, but that the DRC Government itself has again ignored the interim ICSID orders. It also suggests that the new MoM might not be aligned with our interests, as seems probable given the content of the letter he sent to the Prime Minister covering the AVZ file, and the subsequent public notice by the Ministry of Mines comms department that there had been no negotiations on a MoU as we had stated in an announcement.

Surely they're digging a hole for themselves with all this flagrant avoidance of conforming with the orders from these bodies.

Perhaps however they are willing to delay things, just wanting to get the Chinese to be building or finishing a mine by the time ICSID provides any final ruling, thinking they would take this into account as a 'fact on the ground' and making it more difficult to overturn anything related to the northern tenement area. It will be near impossible to budge the Chinese from this position, if they are allowed to much further advance their Project, as seems to be playing out.

Compensation for the north and awarding of the southern permit (and a subsequent buyout) would be the only favorable outcome I can see as plausible. Mpiana Mwanga is a tricky factor though in this scenario, as is the redrawn tenement boundaries losing our access to water and Camp Colline in the south.

 

[TheCount]

Given that the MoM would be required to sign off on the progress of an exploration permit to a PE, this also means that its not just Cominiere, but that the DRC Government itself has again ignored the interim ICSID orders. It also suggests that the new MoM might not be aligned with our interests, as seems probable given the content of the letter he sent to the Prime Minister covering the AVZ file, and the subsequent public notice by the Ministry of Mines comms department that there had been no negotiations on a MoU as we had stated in an announcement.

Surely they're digging a hole for themselves with all this flagrant avoidance of conforming with the orders from these bodies.

Perhaps however they are willing to delay things, just wanting to get the Chinese to be building or finishing a mine by the time ICSID provides any final ruling, thinking they would take this into account as a 'fact on the ground' and making it more difficult to overturn anything related to the northern tenement area. It will be near impossible to budge the Chinese from this position, if they are allowed to much further advance their Project, as seems to be playing out.

Compensation for the north and awarding of the southern permit (and a subsequent buyout) would be the only favorable outcome I can see as plausible. Mpiana Mwanga is a tricky factor though in this scenario, as is the redrawn tenement boundaries losing our access to water and Camp Colline in the south.

No one here doubts Felix is the problem, and he's too far up China's arse to "see the forest for the trees"...
TC.

 

[Mr_Tones83]

Just because Geopolis magazine has claimed CK told the battery metals forum that the PE has been granted doesn't make it true. The lies told by both of them have been non-stop for years.
If it is true then yes, there is a whole lot more evidence for ICC and ICSID to rule in AVZ's favour, but I don't think the MoM is foolish enough to have granted a PE as he is acutely aware of the ICSID interim rulings.

 

[Bin59]

PE has been granted according to CAMI

 

[Bin59]

PE has been granted according to CAMI

View attachment 69425

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Cami and cominiere have been working hand it hand for 12 months to screw over/scare investors. Disregard anything seen on the cami portal it’s a load of shit. Until MoM announces it disregard it - although the north will probably go let’s be honest

 

[Remark]

Cami and cominiere have been working hand it hand for 12 months to screw over/scare investors. Disregard anything seen on the cami portal it’s a load of shit. Until MoM announces it disregard it - although the north will probably go let’s be honest

Agreed. The CAMI site also has the application date & approval date one day apart, back dated to October last year

 

[protoje]

This is a month old, apologies if shared previously: https://news.mongabay.com/2024/08/disputed-manono-lithium-mining-project-in-drc-sparks-concern/

 

[Panther22]

So when are interim rulings by ICC and ICSID due? Surely if they see previous orders have been ignored they can step in and and do something without having to wait for any timelines.

 

[Bin59]

Agreed. The CAMI site also has the application date & approval date one day apart, back dated to October last year

View attachment 69428

CAMI still up to their old games by the looks of it

 

[Flight996]

As we are all aware, Cominiere and Zijin are playing a giant game of poker with a deck clearly stacked in their favor.

They are prepared to risk penalties, reputational damage and international derision because ultimately the pay-off is worth the risk. They are supported by King Felix-the-corrupt's government, its equally corrupt agencies and a beholden judiciary.

Let's face it; where else can you buy a world class resource worth billions for just a few hundred million in bribes and penalties.

Unfortunately, there is no western white knight on the horizon because no reputable miner will risk going anywhere near the DRC.

Finally, Zijin is now so entrenched in AVZ's tenement, and their sunk costs such that extracting them is practically impossible. Despite doing all the exploration and ground-breaking work, AVZ will continue to get no support from the DRC govt, which acts like its enemy rather than its partner.

All that remains to be negotiated is the amount of compensation, but it's a tough gig with so little leverage.

F

 

[Carlos Danger]

Disregard anything seen on the cami portal it’s a load of shit

Every single time this reasoning has been brought up it has been proven wrong by reality on the ground

The idea that CAMI is rogue or Cominiere are bribing staff to update the website behind the MoM's back is pure copium

The words disadvantageous for the Republic blow up this argument quicker than a pager manufactured with explosive material imo

 

[JasonM]

Where does everyone get this idea that there will potentially be a moment where the bod decides to stop attempting negotiations

As far as I'm aware the ICSID allows deals during the entire process

If there ever comes a point where the bod hand everything over to the lawyers and say we aren't going to try anymore then they should all fucking resign imo

I think you took it literally, of course negotiations can take place at anytime, just depends whether it is to award rights and settle north or a financial payout for the whole lot. If the former breaks down, then it just comes down to going through the courts for the latter.

 

[Flight996]

Me, waiting for AVZ's response to this latest round of shitfuckery...

 

[Xerof]

Every single time this reasoning has been brought up it has been proven wrong by reality on the ground

The idea that CAMI is rogue or Cominiere are bribing staff to update the website behind the MoM's back is pure copium

The words disadvantageous for the Republic blow up this argument quicker than a pager manufactured with explosive material imo

Agree, 15575 is proceeding as if it's kosher coz the ISCID would not make a finding as to its legality until it finalises all the prior shitfuckery.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Agree, 15575 is proceeding as if it's kosher coz the ISCID would not make a finding as to its legality until it finalises all the prior shitfuckery.

I remember 9card saying Fasken found a legal loophole around this. Which is reflected in the ICSID excluding the new north from the initial proceedings. Their assumption is that they will either win the old north dispute or get AVZ to fold either figuratively or literally before it needs to be decided so might as well get rolling.

I can understand the DRC's thinking on this. Disadvantageous to the republic means putting all their eggs in Nigel's basket. Even without the snacks it is a advantageous strategy for them even if it rat fucks us.

 

[BRICK]

Agreed. The CAMI site also has the application date & approval date one day apart, back dated to October last year

View attachment 69428

#stolen #corruption
#massivecunts

 

[Dave Evans]

Where does everyone get this idea that there will potentially be a moment where the bod decides to stop attempting negotiations

As far as I'm aware the ICSID allows deals during the entire process

If there ever comes a point where the bod hand everything over to the lawyers and say we aren't going to try anymore then they should all fucking resign imo

I wish you would try and be more positive in our fight against corruption Carlos

AVZ have always said they are willing to negotiate and continue to do so. Those in the DRC who are negotiating on their behalf have been leading us on, hoping we will run out of cash while in the meantime China continues to manipulate the lithium price so if they have to compensate us it would be at a lower price

The IGF Report showed Cominiere, Zijin and Dathomir have all acted illegally. ICC and ICSID might be slow to enforce their orders but are also getting more evidence by the day of Cominiere and Zijin’s violations

@Spikerama calculator shows Cominiere currently owing us over $40 million Euros in penalties alone for the work they and Zijin have done, that doesn’t include other penalties they have been ordered to pay

DRC ICC Penalty Calculator 2.0

Calculates the amount of penalties the DRC has incurred since the first & 2nd violation of the ICC court ruling

drc-icc-penalty-counter-2.netlify.app

 

[Frank]

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