AVZ Discussion 2022

[Flight996]

As we are all aware, Cominiere and Zijin are playing a giant game of poker with a deck clearly stacked in their favor.

They are prepared to risk penalties, reputational damage and international derision because ultimately the pay-off is worth the risk. They are supported by King Felix-the-corrupt's government, its equally corrupt agencies and a beholden judiciary.

Let's face it; where else can you buy a world class resource worth billions for just a few hundred million in bribes and penalties.

Unfortunately, there is no western white knight on the horizon because no reputable miner will risk going anywhere near the DRC.

Finally, Zijin is now so entrenched in AVZ's tenement, and their sunk costs such that extracting them is practically impossible. Despite doing all the exploration and ground-breaking work, AVZ will continue to get no support from the DRC govt, which acts like its enemy rather than its partner.

All that remains to be negotiated is the amount of compensation, but it's a tough gig with so little leverage.

F

 

[Carlos Danger]

Disregard anything seen on the cami portal it’s a load of shit

Every single time this reasoning has been brought up it has been proven wrong by reality on the ground

The idea that CAMI is rogue or Cominiere are bribing staff to update the website behind the MoM's back is pure copium

The words disadvantageous for the Republic blow up this argument quicker than a pager manufactured with explosive material imo

 

[JasonM]

Where does everyone get this idea that there will potentially be a moment where the bod decides to stop attempting negotiations

As far as I'm aware the ICSID allows deals during the entire process

If there ever comes a point where the bod hand everything over to the lawyers and say we aren't going to try anymore then they should all fucking resign imo

I think you took it literally, of course negotiations can take place at anytime, just depends whether it is to award rights and settle north or a financial payout for the whole lot. If the former breaks down, then it just comes down to going through the courts for the latter.

 

[Flight996]

Me, waiting for AVZ's response to this latest round of shitfuckery...

 

[Xerof]

Every single time this reasoning has been brought up it has been proven wrong by reality on the ground

The idea that CAMI is rogue or Cominiere are bribing staff to update the website behind the MoM's back is pure copium

The words disadvantageous for the Republic blow up this argument quicker than a pager manufactured with explosive material imo

Agree, 15575 is proceeding as if it's kosher coz the ISCID would not make a finding as to its legality until it finalises all the prior shitfuckery.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Agree, 15575 is proceeding as if it's kosher coz the ISCID would not make a finding as to its legality until it finalises all the prior shitfuckery.

I remember 9card saying Fasken found a legal loophole around this. Which is reflected in the ICSID excluding the new north from the initial proceedings. Their assumption is that they will either win the old north dispute or get AVZ to fold either figuratively or literally before it needs to be decided so might as well get rolling.

I can understand the DRC's thinking on this. Disadvantageous to the republic means putting all their eggs in Nigel's basket. Even without the snacks it is a advantageous strategy for them even if it rat fucks us.

 

[BRICK]

Agreed. The CAMI site also has the application date & approval date one day apart, back dated to October last year

View attachment 69428

#stolen #corruption
#massivecunts

 

[Dave Evans]

Where does everyone get this idea that there will potentially be a moment where the bod decides to stop attempting negotiations

As far as I'm aware the ICSID allows deals during the entire process

If there ever comes a point where the bod hand everything over to the lawyers and say we aren't going to try anymore then they should all fucking resign imo

I wish you would try and be more positive in our fight against corruption Carlos

AVZ have always said they are willing to negotiate and continue to do so. Those in the DRC who are negotiating on their behalf have been leading us on, hoping we will run out of cash while in the meantime China continues to manipulate the lithium price so if they have to compensate us it would be at a lower price

The IGF Report showed Cominiere, Zijin and Dathomir have all acted illegally. ICC and ICSID might be slow to enforce their orders but are also getting more evidence by the day of Cominiere and Zijin’s violations

@Spikerama calculator shows Cominiere currently owing us over $40 million Euros in penalties alone for the work they and Zijin have done, that doesn’t include other penalties they have been ordered to pay

DRC ICC Penalty Calculator 2.0

Calculates the amount of penalties the DRC has incurred since the first & 2nd violation of the ICC court ruling

drc-icc-penalty-counter-2.netlify.app

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Frank]

x.com

x.com

 

[Roon]

Carlos does seem to revel in $avz shareholders losing their entire fucking investments. Lucky he’s a self made millionaire legend

What a crock of shit. Carlos is one of those on here who consistently tell it how it is, with well-considered justifications for his positions. Given our circumstances are dire, these positions have invariably appeared negative in recent years. Amazing how that works when you take a realistic viewpoint.

You are always quick to shut down such views, but I wholeheartedly appreciate the inputs that Carlos and others put forward. Im sure many others feel the same way.

I think we'll likely glean more accurate insights through those like Carlos rather than listening to the pump squad on Twitter, that whilst positive and feel-good, has been wrong over and over again.

 

[dollarbills]

What a crock of shit. Carlos is one of those on here who consistently tell it how it is, with well-considered justifications for his positions. Given our circumstances are dire, these positions have invariably appeared negative in recent years. Amazing how that works when you take a realistic viewpoint.

You are always quick to shut down such views, but I wholeheartedly appreciate the inputs that Carlos and others put forward. Im sure many others feel the same way.

I think we'll likely glean more accurate insights through those like Carlos rather than listening to the pump squad on Twitter, that whilst positive and feel-good, has been wrong over and over again.

Agree, i have valued Carlos' input and his excellent analysis and interpretation of the current standing with ICC and ISCID.

It is up to our BOD how they navigate and negotiate through the corruption...

 

[Cumquat Cap]

No doubt Carlos knows his shit, seems he was right all along - just saying he seems to enjoy the fact we’re all fucked

 

[Carlos Danger]

I wish you would try and be more positive in our fight against corruption Carlos

AVZ have always said they are willing to negotiate and continue to do so. Those in the DRC who are negotiating on their behalf have been leading us on, hoping we will run out of cash while in the meantime China continues to manipulate the lithium price so if they have to compensate us it would be at a lower price

What a crock of shit. Carlos is one of those on here who consistently tell it how it is, with well-considered justifications for his positions. Given our circumstances are dire, these positions have invariably appeared negative in recent years. Amazing how that works when you take a realistic viewpoint.

You are always quick to shut down such views, but I wholeheartedly appreciate the inputs that Carlos and others put forward. Im sure many others feel the same way.

I think we'll likely glean more accurate insights through those like Carlos rather than listening to the pump squad on Twitter, that whilst positive and feel-good, has been wrong over and over again.

No doubt Carlos knows his shit, seems he was right all along - just saying he seems to enjoy the fact we’re all fucked

My point was that negotiations will continue as long as necessary which is far more positive than saying the drawn out legal process is our last option as many have imo

I take absolutely zero joy in this situation. I find humour gets a message across quicker than any other communication method so perhaps that is where the confusion lies but my main motivation for researching is to try and help shareholders that are suffering understand the situation whether the information is palatable or not.

I’ve also been wrong about heaps of shit haha

 

[SilentOne]

Lets just simply wait for the ICC and ICSID rulings - we have seen in the past that countries take the rulings of the ICSID very seriously and it is a catalyst for negotiation and settlement.

Just because you stole a car changed the wheels over and sold it to a mate (who knows the car is stolen) doesnt make the car your mates property. This is also the reason why we are litigating this primarily internationally rather than the corrupt domestic courts in the DRC.

Negative speculation until we know the rulings of both the ICSID and ICC - serves no purpose. You run the risk of feeding peoples anxiety which may trigger personal outcomes that none of us want to see or be responsible for through our musings.

We have no other option than to support the Board and each other.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[Cumquat Cap]

My point was that negotiations will continue as long as necessary which is far more positive than saying the drawn out legal process is our last option as many have imo

I take absolutely zero joy in this situation. I find humour gets a message across quicker than any other communication method so perhaps that is where the confusion lies but my main motivation for researching is to try and help shareholders that are suffering understand the situation whether the information is palatable or not.

I’ve also been wrong about heaps of shit haha

View attachment 69456

Fair enough mate I can respect that, certainly looking as though DRC don’t give a shit about any arbitration courts and are pressing ahead. Have to wait and see

 

[Carlos Danger]

Lets just simply wait for the ICC and ICSID rulings - we have seen in the past that countries take the rulings of the ICSID very seriously and it is a catalyst for negotiation and settlement.

Just because you stole a car changed the wheels over and sold it to a mate (who knows the car is stolen) doesnt make the car your mates property. This is also the reason why we are litigating this primarily internationally rather than the corrupt domestic courts in the DRC.

Negative speculation until we know the rulings of both the ICSID and ICC - serves no purpose. You run the risk of feeding peoples anxiety which may trigger personal outcomes that none of us want to see or be responsible for through our musings.

We have no other option than to support the Board and each other.

Regards,

SilentOne

ICSID decision is YEARS away lol

Unchecked positive speculation does far more damage to people's mental health than realism imo

 

[Samus]

ICSID decision is YEARS away lol

This may be so but the arbitration proceedings might start to put the squeeze on DRC a lot sooner.
The focus right now should be on the latest announcement which stated:

Regardless of Manono Lithium's compliance with the DRC Mining Code, Cominière's conduct in, at least, procuring the modification of the CAMI register constitutes a clear breach of the emergency relief made by the International Commercial Court (ICC) on 15 November 2023, which ordered Cominière "not to take any steps to explore and exploit, directly or indirectly, the mining reserves within the perimeter of PR 13359 and PR 15775". Accordingly, the Company has referred the matter to the ICC tribunal constituted in case 27720 and submitted that only an order for the immediate payment of the daily fines imposed by the emergency arbitrator on Cominière for breach of the emergency relief will ensure Cominière's due compliance with the Tribunal’s orders pending a final award. As at the date of this announcement, AVZ estimates the aggregate amount of penalties accrued on account of Cominière'S continuing breaches of the emergency relief to be approximately US$73.85 million.

You would hope that things like the miraculous Manono Lithium exploitation permit that arrived out of nowhere and nothing (like it was born of the virgin fucking Mary) granted recently might highlight the urgency and seriousness of these breaches by cominiereSA.