AVZ Discussion 2022

[Flight996]

Mate, we all appreciate your commitment and passion for getting a fair outcome in this seemingly endless shitshow.

Re: Without the ASX’s prying eyes a variety of positive outcomes are possible for the mushrooms imo

We may need to simply agree to disagree on this statement.

As we are all aware, the ASX is not the regulator. That role falls to the ASIC (edited). However, ASX listing rules require the uniform and timely reporting of key information and events across all its member companies equally, which is a good thing.

There is a significant benefit in having all companies meet the same reporting and accounting standards, and significant downside when companies operate in the shadows without needing to report regularly and to the same standard.

I feel that the AVZ board and its General Manager have not been totally honest with its shareholders on a number of occasions, particularly during its roadshows and around the relinquishment of the northern part of its tenement. When AVZ delists in a weeks time, I fear that management may take advantage of the situation to keep us even more in the dark, and in the process further disenfranchise us from influencing key decisions.

The idea of keeping the enemy guessing through delisting and withholding publicly available information is totally overstated. AVZ's Chinese and DRC enemies will get their intel regardless of whether the company is listed or not.

Cheers
F

 

[Samus]

I feel that the AVZ board and its General Manager have not been totally honest with its shareholders on a number of occasions, particularly during its roadshows and around the relinquishment of the northern part of its tenement. When AVZ delists in a weeks time, I fear that management may take advantage of the situation to keep us even more in the dark, and in the process further disenfranchise us from influencing key decisions.

Honestly, is this even possible?

All they've really publicly given us are the court outcomes as they occur. I'll be very surprised if we don't continue to get that.
Beyond that we don't even know what the BOD have been up to, including those new board members who we voted in on managements request.
We'll probably hear about the outcome for funding but management are infamous for never projecting an accurate time frame. So we can probably anticipate the not knowing about that in a timely manner.

Anyway point is beyond those types of critical things we never knew anything (officially) anyway so it can't really get much worse on that front.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Yes visibility gone which fucken sucks (not much different to now except the shorters are properly fucked).

But remember, Nigel has 50m shares ($70 m aud at its peak and he didn’t sell a share) so whatever you think he might be doing that’s nefarious or what best believe he’s working like crazy to not lose that much capital.

Imagine losing 70m dollars for the sake of 1.6 in salary and just kicking back enjoying the weather. He’s working like crazy to achieve a liquidity event for shareholders. Others I’m not so sure about but you get what I mean

 

[robface]

Yes visibility gone which fucken sucks (not much different to now except the shorters are properly fucked).

But remember, Nigel has 50m shares ($70 m aud at its peak and he didn’t sell a share) so whatever you think he might be doing that’s nefarious or what best believe he’s working like crazy to not lose that much capital.

Imagine losing 70m dollars for the sake of 1.6 in salary and just kicking back enjoying the weather. He’s working like crazy to achieve a liquidity event for shareholders. Others I’m not so sure about but you get what I mean

Don't see anyone banging down our door to buy our shares if the shorters are as fucked as you say.

 

[Dom1974]

Have a look at Ty’s recent campaign, being fed by Shane to create FUD. Trying to scare shareholders to offmarket their shares cheap I reckon. But primarily employed by Simon Cong & Zijin.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Don't see anyone banging down our door to buy our shares if the shorters are as fucked as you say.

Take your constant bitching to hotcrapper

 

[robface]

Take your constant bitching to hotcrapper

You can't handle a simple observation?

 

[Remark]

You can't handle a simple observation?

I think you're taking this criticism the wrong way.

He's only saying that he recognises a bitch when he sees one

 

[robface]

I think you're taking this criticism the wrong way.

He's only saying that he recognises a bitch when he sees one

Yep, looks like we're all bitches who can't get buyers for our shares.

 

[Xerof]

Have a look at Ty’s recent campaign, being fed by Shane to create FUD. Trying to scare shareholders to offmarket their shares cheap I reckon. But primarily employed by Simon Cong & Zijin.

Don’t bother, it looks like the prosecution case for Fatarse in the WASC, which keeps getting delayed. Time is not on their side, so poor old Ty me kangaroo down sport is tasked with trial by Twitter. Talk about desperation

About time I changed my Pink Floyd song so I have

 

[BRICK]

Yep, looks like we're all bitches who can't get buyers for our shares.

Only those who would be trying to sell.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Yep, looks like we're all bitches who can't get buyers for our shares.

Yep keep it pushing to the other thread of hotcrapper and good luck selling your shares

 

[Samus]

AVZ seems to have about 3.3% short position.

Presumably most of those shorters will simply try to work something out with the lender. 3% doesn't seem to represent significant proportion enough for them to desperately out there trying to buy up everybody's shares. At best a few desperates might get approached.

Burning the shorters seems little consolation for the shit we've been through tbh. Although those fuckwits can suck shit anyway and hopefully boatman is suffering.

 

[Winenut]

Mate, we all appreciate your commitment and passion for getting a fair outcome in this seemingly endless shitshow.

Re: Without the ASX’s prying eyes a variety of positive outcomes are possible for the mushrooms imo

We may need to simply agree to disagree on this statement.

As we are all aware, the ASX is not the regulator. That role falls to the ACCC. However, ASX listing rules require the uniform and timely reporting of key information and events across all its member companies equally, which is a good thing.

There is a significant benefit in having all companies meet the same reporting and accounting standards, and significant downside when companies operate in the shadows without needing to report regularly and to the same standard.

I feel that the AVZ board and its General Manager have not been totally honest with its shareholders on a number of occasions, particularly during its roadshows and around the relinquishment of the northern part of its tenement. When AVZ delists in a weeks time, I fear that management may take advantage of the situation to keep us even more in the dark, and in the process further disenfranchise us from influencing key decisions.

The idea of keeping the enemy guessing through delisting and withholding publicly available information is totally overstated. AVZ's Chinese and DRC enemies will get their intel regardless of whether the company is listed or not.

Cheers
F

The ACCC is not the regulator of the ASX

The ACCC regulates competition and is concerned with consumer law

ASIC (The Australian Securities and Investment Commission) is the regulator of the ASX and in it's broad role regulates financial markets and the conduct of Australian companies

Just for clarity

Cheers

 

[Winenut]

AVZ seems to have about 3.3% short position.
View attachment 62141
Presumably most of those shorters will simply try to work something out with the lender. 3% doesn't seem to represent significant proportion enough for them to desperately out there trying to buy up everybody's shares. At best a few desperates might get approached.

Burning the shorters seems little consolation for the shit we've been through tbh. Although those fuckwits can suck shit anyway and hopefully boatman is suffering.

The shorters aren't fucking concerned

They've been able to deploy their capital all through this exercise in any way they wish (remember they already sold their shares so have the cash)

The smart onces could deploy that capital and make a few percent here and there and cover their interest cost many times over as this whole shit show plays out

I would suspect the interest cost would be tax deductible too

They're only fucked if we manage to get a positive outcome and we can relist and the SP takes off

Then they're all scambling like fuck to close their positions

Fuck I hope that happens.....

 

[Roon]

There's fuck all AVZ shorters in the scheme of things anyway, with a big chunk of the already-low short tranche entering upon our entrance into the ASX200 as hedges against long positions taken up by index funds. Not sure why people are always flogging the nefarious shorter narrative, as it's pretty much immaterial in the AVZ case. Makes a convenient scapegoat or boogeyman I guess.

 

[Carlos Danger]

loose lips sink ships - STFU on a public forum

@Carlos Danger - I'm happy to leave it to ICSID to give the determination, but IMO, unrealised promises and false pretences presented legal issues for MoM, which led to the reunification by decree (yes, 32 not 31, I didn't go back to look). That renders all past actions irrelevant and white noise. All the other shit since then is shitfuckery as Plan B for Zijin and their fuckwit mates.

Do you have copies of the decree from MoM that ratified the 15575 split? Really interested to see if it exists

Back in November we made a bet where I was banging on about Zijin giving up on their claim for the 15% of Dathcom because they had transferred their 33mil USD to their purported claim of Manono Lithium acquiring 15775. Although to be fair DLA piper agreed with me at the time.

Based on publicly available information you were right and I was wrong proven by Fasken bullshitting that they will pursue their claims to the 15% through the back alley DRC court system on Zijin’s behalf

The jade pony has been acquired and it is available to be delivered wherever you want at any time upon your request

As I said the other day I agree with management’s current tactic and believe it will result in a positive outcome for shareholders

Without the ASX’s prying eyes a variety of positive outcomes are possible for the mushrooms imo

View attachment 62119
View attachment 62121
View attachment 62118
View attachment 62120

If I hadn’t of posted after having about a bajillion tequila shots last night I would have realised that I was wrong and that the not photoshopped decree is the purported renewal of the tenement for Cominiere and not their subsequent relinquishment of the new north split and the following granting of 15775 in Manono Lithium’s name that was done without a tender process. Now that I’ve sobered up I have double checked my records and I don’t have a copy of the decree for the creation of 15775 and to my knowledge it has never been made public. But the event has been recognised multiple times by AVZ in official announcements where they say the events are unlawful which I completely agree with and have said so here previously numerous times. The 15775 event has also been recognised by the ICSID. But ultimately if we need to go the distance and the merits are heard I think they will wind that renewal, subsequent relinquishment and granting back.

The surviving legal effect of the Dathcom waiver not so much imo. But hopefully someone can prove me wrong on that or we don’t need to ever find out and an alternative outcome can be reached as the latest announcement indicates by saying ‘AVZ will continue to seek value realisation opportunities for shareholders, including through the resolution of the prevailing disputes and development of the Manono Project, admission to a recognised stock exchange and/or partial or complete disposal of one or more assets’. I also agree that a negotiated outcome or a partial or complete disposal of one or more of our assets should be easier to achieve without the inherit complications for the company while operating as a listed company. I support the bod and fully accept the path that voting for them at last year's AGM brings. I just think that the herd mentality is hurting us when it leads to key decision makers social media accounts being spammed aggressively with nonsense. As Nigel said, be respectful. And the most respectful thing we can do as shareholders is strive to be as factually accurate as possible in what we say imo

 

[Dave Evans]

If I hadn’t of posted after having about a bajillion tequila shots last night I would have realised that I was wrong and that the not photoshopped decree is the purported renewal of the tenement for Cominiere and not their subsequent relinquishment of the new north split and the following granting of 15775 in Manono Lithium’s name that was done without a tender process. Now that I’ve sobered up I have double checked my records and I don’t have a copy of the decree for the creation of 15775 and to my knowledge it has never been made public. But the event has been recognised multiple times by AVZ in official announcements where they say the events are unlawful which I completely agree with and have said so here previously numerous times. The 15775 event has also been recognised by the ICSID. But ultimately if we need to go the distance and the merits are heard I think they will wind that renewal, subsequent relinquishment and granting back.

The surviving legal effect of the Dathcom waiver not so much imo. But hopefully someone can prove me wrong on that or we don’t need to ever find out and an alternative outcome can be reached as the latest announcement indicates by saying ‘AVZ will continue to seek value realisation opportunities for shareholders, including through the resolution of the prevailing disputes and development of the Manono Project, admission to a recognised stock exchange and/or partial or complete disposal of one or more assets’. I also agree that a negotiated outcome or a partial or complete disposal of one or more of our assets should be easier to achieve without the inherit complications for the company while operating as a listed company. I support the bod and fully accept the path that voting for them at last year's AGM brings. I just think that the herd mentality is hurting us when it leads to key decision makers social media accounts being spammed aggressively with nonsense. As Nigel said, be respectful. And the most respectful thing we can do as shareholders is strive to be as factually accurate as possible in what we say imo

View attachment 62154

“The surviving legal effect of the Dathcom waiver not so much imo”

There are stipulations in contracts that say if one party (DRC) doesn’t honour their agreement, the contract is null and void. If that happened to be the case in this instance, then ‘null and void’ means it was never legally waived, never relinquished and never ceded.

I guess DLA are the only ones that currently know and they appear to be sticking to the line that if there was an agreement, the DRC didn’t honour their side

 

[Flight996]

The ACCC is not the regulator of the ASX

The ACCC regulates competition and is concerned with consumer law

ASIC (The Australian Securities and Investment Commission) is the regulator of the ASX and in it's broad role regulates financial markets and the conduct of Australian companies

Just for clarity

Cheers

Thanks Winenut. Yes, my bad.
I meant ASIC but typed ACCC...what was I thinking.
I will edit it.

Cheers

 

[Jazz]