AVZ Discussion 2022

[Dave Evans]

I hope you’re right. But I just don’t think that is how the ICSID will see it if it gets that far. Hopefully we never need to find out what their decision would be and an alternative outcome can be reached long before then. Dathcom were under no obligation to file the waiver as I have said numerous times. They should have fought it then and there rather than agreeing to the split even if under false pretences. If there was a written contract rather than just a waiver submission this surely would have been all over a long time ago.

If the MoM had of mentioned Dathcom being tricked or a contract dispute in 00032 then it would be an obvious slam dunk case. But she clearly doesn’t and instead cites Cominiere’s letter from December 2022 that blames AVZ ignoring the minority shareholders opinion. That is the basis of AVZ’s current claim to Dathcom having the entirety of PR13359. The idea of ‘contracts being null and void’ has never been recognised by the DRC government. Which is a very dangerous reasoning path for us to take to arbitration.

The company has been using in recent official announcement the wording of no opinion being given as to who will ultimately end up with a PE for the north. But if it does go to Dathcom then further negotiations with the other shareholders will be undertaken. This is a very deliberate tactic by DLA Piper for the current reasoning path we are on and I fully support it. It is far better idea than letting the ICSID decide who should get it imo

Carlos, I’m sure you can imagine that all evidence in this (including the skullduggery) will have been given to DLA Piper.

As for Cominiere claiming AVZ ignored their minority opinion. Do you or anyone else think for a second that Cominiere didn’t want the split, so that they and the DRC could claim a greater percentage of the project through a new JV in the north?

My guess would be that Cominiere orchestrated the split and once again I imagine DLA Piper has the evidence and that is why we have been winning the ICC and ICSID cases.

The only genuine complaint (claim) Cominiere could have was that we didn’t agree to them selling 15% to Jin Cheng, and the evidence that wasn’t a legal sale has been confirmed firstly by our prior ROFR agreement with Cominiere, then by the IGF and most recently by the ICC.

I hope that adds some possibilities to your questions as I have to move on to other things I’m currently working on

 

[Azzler]

Someone smart play this out for me, we offload the entire asset, for a price that puts the company at let’s say $10 per share? How do we as shareholders sell our shares at that value? Or will management do a dividend? If so what would encourage them to do so? Like how can I now sell my shares if they are at a price without being on market? Are we not now existing at the behest of management? Thanks in advance. FKA Tommy the journalist of Gina.

There would be various options on how to proceed if we can get our positive outcome for AVZ.
We just have to wait to see what they decide to do. But I have no doubt they will be choosing whatever option sees best shareholder returns possible, risk factors included.

They might relist on another exchange as they said in the announcement.
They might pay a divvy, which would suck because of taxes.
But if they sell the asset, then we get stuck with DRC tax on the sale before we see any of it.
If they wind up the company I think we can get our cap gains discount.

I know it's just hypothetical, but 10 bux is a bit ambitious after all the shit, hey but you never know.

If someone has more indepth knowledge about possibly outcomes for shareholder payouts, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[BEISHA]

Possibly. But lip service is all you will ever get from any company's management. That's why I don't bother talking to any of them. They're hardly going to admit wrongdoing or let you know if things are actually bad because EGM's can still be called when listed or not listed leading to them losing their jobs.

Also, there isn't a soap strong enough on this planet for me to ever shake hands with Brewer. You're a brave man.

 

[RHyNO]

There would be various options on how to proceed if we can get our positive outcome for AVZ.
We just have to wait to see what they decide to do. But I have no doubt they will be choosing whatever option sees best shareholder returns possible, risk factors included.

They might relist on another exchange as they said in the announcement.
They might pay a divvy, which would suck because of taxes.
But if they sell the asset, then we get stuck with DRC tax on the sale before we see any of it.
If they wind up the company I think we can get our cap gains discount.

I know it's just hypothetical, but 10 bux is a bit ambitious after all the shit, hey but you never know.

If someone has more indepth knowledge about possibly outcomes for shareholder payouts, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks mate! Yeah agree $10 is rich. Zinjin if your watching I’d take $3

 

[Flekman11]

Yep, looks like we're all bitches who can't get buyers for our shares.

Supply and demand moron. Make ‘em sweat not knowing what they can and can’t get. Especially good being delisted. But hey if you like panic selling go for it. I’ll buy, PM me.

 

[Thaz]

It depends on how the share / asset sale is structured

Could be a merger / acquisition, in which they could issue shares in the acquiring entity, or cash, or a mixture of both.


All 3 have different taxation implications.

But high level, I would imagine that we would only be entitled to a return of capital upon winding up the company.

After which, itl be a dividend from the company. Company's generally cannot payout a capital distribution that is not a pre cgt gain (i.e. if we sold manono rights. The cap gains in the company would be treated as part of the retained earnings of the company (i.e. payout as dividends)

Ofc, they may structure the deal differently which would have different taxation implications...and also depends on the inherent corporate structure of avz

 

[Flekman11]

Someone smart play this out for me, we offload the entire asset, for a price that puts the company at let’s say $10 per share? How do we as shareholders sell our shares at that value? Or will management do a dividend? If so what would encourage them to do so? Like how can I now sell my shares if they are at a price without being on market? Are we not now existing at the behest of management? Thanks in advance. FKA Tommy the journalist of Gina.

$10 is probably a long way from reality mate but if it goes this way, the likely course is AVZ accepting (subject to shareholder approval, a right you still retain) an offer for our Dathcom share, we take the cash and distribute on a per share basis less a fair bit in various costs. That’s about it mate.

 

[BEISHA]

'Warned us': Germany's foreign minister speaks of deep Russia trade regret

Germany's foreign minister tells 7.30 her nation was caught out being over-reliant on Russian oil and gas and has urged nations worldwide not to do the same in regards to China.

www.abc.net.au

Slightly offtopic article, but relevant in the wests quest to to divert away from China / Russia dependence of critical minerals etc.

I mean we dont really know what influence the west is applying to the DRC govt regards to Manono, but maybe we got a clue from @Frank previous post regards to FT being pissed about " lecturing "

One thing is for sure , outside looking in, its diabolical that AVZ has to fight the might of China and the corruption of DRC on its own regards to what simply is the most influencial lithium asset globally going around by a country mile, whereby who ever owns it, dictates and controls.

China must be stopped!

imo

 

[Flekman11]

'Warned us': Germany's foreign minister speaks of deep Russia trade regret

Germany's foreign minister tells 7.30 her nation was caught out being over-reliant on Russian oil and gas and has urged nations worldwide not to do the same in regards to China.

www.abc.net.au

Slightly offtopic article, but relevant in the wests quest to to divert away from China / Russia dependence of critical minerals etc.

I mean we dont really know what influence the west is applying to the DRC govt regards to Manono, but maybe we got a clue from @Frank previous post regards to FT being pissed about " lecturing "

One thing is for sure , outside looking in, its diabolical that AVZ has to fight the might of China and the corruption of DRC on its own regards to what simply is the most influencial lithium asset globally going around by a country mile, whereby who ever owns it, dictates and controls.

China must be stopped!

imo

Agree. Only problem is we all have China in every part of our lives, and none of us will it up will we.

 

[Sparrowhawk12]

Agree. Only problem is we all have China in every part of our lives, and none of us will it up will we.

I've been avoiding "made in china" more & more for the last ~10 years, since CCP/Xi Jinping aggression in South China Sea, & many other examples before & since, and especially so in the last 2 years with China's efforts to further corrupt/rob the DRC and AVZ.
Every bit helps.
Reduce, reuse, recycle helps. Hoover 720 washing machine is 50yo (re-furb motor every 10 years) - made in Oz? 30yo Fisher & Paykel fridge - made in Oz. 25yo Air-Con made in Japan. 19yo car/Pajero made in Japan. The Pajero will last until I can get an EV with solid state Li-Ion batteries, powerful enough to tow 1500Kg with 800+Km range & after AVZ I will never buy a made in China EV.
I have nothing against the ordinary Chinese people, just the CCP autocracy and dictatorship - absolute power corrupts absolutely.
IMO. DYOR. Br Sparrowhawk12

 

[Frank]

 

[Frank]

 

[Frank]

 

[lellep]

DRC goverment and officials are nothing more than a sick joke. I genuinely hope they will answer for the crimes they are committing as they are keeping their country in despair and poverty. With war in the east, poverty, no jobs, politicians exploiting the people they have sworn to serve.

But I doubt anything will happen due to the spineless hypocrite president.

Bring on the ICC, we want our money back.
It may take years but in the end we will prevail and the ones who end up paying are probably not even the people who caused this mess.

 

[wombat74]

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Felix telling the world he loves corruption and for the West to go f--k themselves .

 

[marksmann007]

Have these corrupt muppets considered how much slimmer the Chinese brown paper bags they receive would be not to mention what the Chinese would offer to pay for anything in the DRC if the West gave up on any investment in the DRC or the DRC refused to deal with the West going forward?
I’d be guessing 90% less.

 

[robface]

Supply and demand moron. Make ‘em sweat not knowing what they can and can’t get. Especially good being delisted. But hey if you like panic selling go for it. I’ll buy, PM me.

Nah mate it's all made public here as the point of my thread. What's your buy price?

 

[Frank]

 

[RHyNO]

$10 is probably a long way from reality mate but if it goes this way, the likely course is AVZ accepting (subject to shareholder approval, a right you still retain) an offer for our Dathcom share, we take the cash and distribute on a per share basis less a fair bit in various costs. That’s about it mate.

Yeah mate thanks. I certainly don’t think $10
Is anywhere near what is real, but was just mentioning it for ease of math and not to attract the ire of the disgruntled hopefuls. In all sincerity $1.30 would be a great price and a fair one!

 

[wombat74]

Yeah mate thanks. I certainly don’t think $10
Is anywhere near what is real, but was just mentioning it for ease of math and not to attract the ire of the disgruntled hopefuls. In all sincerity $1.30 would be a great price and a fair one!

How do you come up with a $1.30 ?That wouldn't cover bank interest lost for some punters , and what about the punters who got in higher than $1.30 ?