AVZ Discussion 2022

Frank

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Hi all.
FWIW a couple of thoughts. All IMO of course.

There's been little to no news since the last announcement of AVZ suing the DRC government. A great sign. Why? They were blindsided. Outplayed. CHECK MATE.

The evil, malicious forces working against us did not see this coming IMO. They thought wait 'em out, bleed 'em dry.
Well played BOD.

After speaking with a laywer friend of mine, I opine. These are just my musings but I believe they have merit.

As there is now a live litigation over ownership, amongst other things, the tenement can't be given to any other party, nor, can another party claim any ground, lease, ownership percentage etc., until AVZ's court case is adjudicated on.

The sole parties to the action are AVZ and the DRC Government.

The DRC government's hand has been forced. They simply can't let this play out before the courts IMO. They cannot afford to let all their dirty, filthy washing be aired. Can they? NO IMO.

I believe we'll get a favourable announcement sooner, not later, and it'll be a doozy. I lean toward a TO but we'll see.

Food for thought? Stay positive everyone.
*Meanwhile, Back at the Farm, the Home of Kabila re:- The Days of our DRC Lives :rolleyes:

The former President of the Republic gathered his followers and announced that he would soon address the Congolese.

For months the former President of the Congolese Republic has been playing the card of discretion.

More than four years after leaving power, more than two years after being dribbled over by Félix Tshisekedi whom he had appointed to succeed him without taking into account the will of the ballot box, Joseph Kabila is back at the front of the stage.

Why this return?

Joseph Kabila no longer had the right to silence. In the home stretch ahead of the presidential and legislative elections announced for December 20, the "moral authority" of the Common Front for Congo (FCC), which remains a structure that weighs on Congolese life despite the defection of very many deputies and senators who succumbed to the briefcases of greenbacks and the luxury cars distributed by the presidency of Tshisekedi, had to set a course if he wants to keep those who have remained faithful to him.

www.mediacongo.net/article-actualite-123369_sortie_mediatique_de_kabila_pour_quelles_raisons_et_consequences.html


Media release of Kabila: The risky bet of Raïs

Without a doubt.

There will be a before and an after appearance on the stage by Joseph Kabila.

It will therefore be little to predict that this comeback will reshuffle the political cards.

And that the lines will move.

The man who is making his political comeback is obviously not just anyone.

Is it still necessary to recall that he was the alpha and the omega of the politico-institutional life of the country for two decades.

Making and unmaking most of the politico-military establishment.

When from his Kingakati sanctuary where he lives almost as a hermit, JKK lets the city and the country know that he has not yet retired, it is not only Social Security that revises and submits its calculations .

The entire national political spectrum and some of our main external partners are preparing to update their software.

With the end of the minimum service in Kingakati, the country is therefore on the eve of a turning point.

The problem is the nature of this turn.

Because, the pedigree of the senator for life Kabila carries as many assets as handicaps, as many advantages as disadvantages.

If he commands esteem and respect, it is precisely because of his status, he flies very high like an eagle.

Going down into the political arena, Joseph Kabila would lend the flank to criticism and especially to blows always going above the belt.

Almost like any political actor.

The risk of seeing this return turn into one fight too many is there.

Because, the political scene that he will return to is no longer quite the same.

To borrow from the sports lexicon, if the playing area is the same, the match is no longer the same.

Many players have changed jackets following or in favor – it depends – of the large transfer window operated by the new coach-sponsor.

In short, a lot of water has flowed under the N’sele bridge.

The challenge for the Raïs is to ensure that his comeback is perceived and above all experienced as that of the last resort of the providential man.

Recourse can, in this case, rhyme with relief.

In fact, nearly five years after the highly scripted transfer of power, the change expected by the silent majority is turning Arlesian.

The Congolese are still subscribed or even stuck – despite themselves – in the same mess.

The indicators of “misery” generally remain as they are.

Already proverbially weak, purchasing power has shrunk further.

That is to say.

Is this enough for the Congolese to absolve the one whom the opposition has demonized by making him responsible for all the cumulative ills of the DRC since its independence?

Nothing is less sure.

Still, since ancient Greece it has been the characteristic of peoples to adore today what they burned yesterday and to burn what they adored yesterday.

There, could reside the key to the enigma of the risky bet of the Raïs.

www.mediacongo.net/article-actualite-123370_sortie_mediatique_de_kabila_le_pari_risque_du_rais.html


Food for thought :unsure:

Frank 🤞
 
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CashKing

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Flight996

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For them not to want their dirty laundry aired they would require an embarrassment gene. Which as another poster has surmised they do not have. I think it must just disappear once you become one of the elite in drc.

Pretty much on the mark Onthefm.

The world knows the DRC is dirty, and the DRC knows that the world knows it's dirty...and doesn't care because it has stuff the world needs. It's been dirty since Adam was a boy, and will be dirty well after the sun fades to a little red ball.

Cheers
F
 
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Retrobyte

Hates a beer
You could ask yourself whether it was more likely you see this person’s face in a photo holding hands with your daughter or in a photo in handcuffs on a police station wall….

Possibly both photos. The second photo soon after the first photo
 
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wombat74

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Pretty much on the mark Onthefm.

The world knows the DRC is dirty, and the DRC knows that the world knows it's dirty...and doesn't care because it has stuff the world needs. It's been dirty since Adam was a boy, and will be dirty well after the sun fades to a little red ball.

Cheers
F
Which begs the question why they haven't pulled the rug on us already if it were that simple . Or why the Chinese haven't started construction of the mine . Instead they opt for stall tactics which delays a project they say is a 'matter of urgency '. So it looks to me like stripping us of the project was either not possible or it was a last resort if other tactics failed . Nigel's early call with ICSID throws a spanner .
 
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Cumquat Cap

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I think you're correct Wombat, especially with ICSID they cannot just remove us now - brilliant move. I think a negotiated position is being formulated whereby AVZ mine the spod and CATL process batteries locally (although doubt they'd like to do this for obvious reasons). Alternatively, CATL buys us out and have a vertical supply chain to aggressively expand their business - hope it's the former as we would have to pay 20% corporate tax in the DRC if it were a straight up TO as opposed to floating again where we can sell as we please. Question is how long? Surely with the Election early 2024 Felix will ramp up the campaign and wouldn't want 4 arbitrations against his anti corruption mandate. Just my thoughts
 
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Charbella

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Bonsoir

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timb89

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I think you're correct Wombat, especially with ICSID they cannot just remove us now - brilliant move. I think a negotiated position is being formulated whereby AVZ mine the spod and CATL process batteries locally (although doubt they'd like to do this for obvious reasons). Alternatively, CATL buys us out and have a vertical supply chain to aggressively expand their business - hope it's the former as we would have to pay 20% corporate tax in the DRC if it were a straight up TO as opposed to floating again where we can sell as we please. Question is how long? Surely with the Election early 2024 Felix will ramp up the campaign and wouldn't want 4 arbitrations against his anti corruption mandate. Just my thoughts

Just a thought. And an absolutely unsubstantiated one.

Perhaps FT could have swung his pen at any point. But swinging during an election cycle is even better. People have short memories. This announcement as theyre about to drop a name in a ballot box would be a good move.
 
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I’m sure all the people with short memories are going to forget Felix has been dragged kicking and screaming to arbitration in the USA because the whole planet now knows about the corruption related to our project and the fact that Cominiere and CAMI have been allowed to hold up the project and sell it off to the Chinese for $120 million less than what it is worth (and most of that money is mysteriously unaccounted for) and the President, Prime Minister, Minister of Portfolio, Minister of Mines and DG of CAMI have all been complicit in the matter.

Now what was that again…. What ever it was we all seem to have forgotten 🤔
 
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geo_au

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I’m sure all the people with short memories are going to forget Felix has been dragged kicking and screaming to arbitration in the USA because the whole planet now knows about the corruption related to our project and the fact that Cominiere and CAMI have been allowed to hold up the project and sell it off to the Chinese for $120 million less than what it is worth (and most of that money is mysteriously unaccounted for) and the President, Prime Minister, Minister of Portfolio, Minister of Mines and DG of CAMI have all been complicit in the matter.

Now what was that again…. What ever it was we all seem to have forgotten 🤔
Then why is our BoD so optimistic one may ask. They seemed to be very happy about a positive outcome, so we will have to wait for the next announcement.
 
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Just a thought. And an absolutely unsubstantiated one.

Perhaps FT could have swung his pen at any point. But swinging during an election cycle is even better. People have short memories. This announcement as theyre about to drop a name in a ballot box would be a good move.
The vast majority of DRC voters have no fucking idea about the Dathcom issue imo
 
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Dazmac66

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The vast majority of DRC voters have no fucking idea about the Dathcom issue imo
100% - More worried about where their next feed is coming from.
 
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timb89

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100% - More worried about where their next feed is coming from.

It would come from AVZ (and every western company who would come in with the correct business environment) tax dollars and infrastructure development, as well as the wealth of jobs it would create.

I think deals a govt can make for the benefit of the populace would be an election issue.
 
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Mickyb64

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Then why is our BoD so optimistic one may ask. They seemed to be very happy about a positive outcome, so we will have to wait for the next announcement.
I haven't heard any positivity from our BOD. I've heard absolutely nothing since the last announcement.
 
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Flight996

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AVZ's introduction to its latest announcement (9 Jun 2023) reads as follows:

AVZ International Pty Ltd (AVZI), Green Lithium Holdings Pte Ltd (GLH) (which are both wholly-owned subsidiaries of AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX : AVZ, OTCQX : AZZVF) (Company) and have legal title to AVZ’s 75% interest in Dathcom) along with Dathcom Mining SA (Dathcom) (together, the Claimants) have jointly lodged a request (Arbitration Request) to commence international arbitration proceedings against the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)...

I think this long-winded legalese means that AVZ (and its subsidiaries), and Dathcom (and its partners) initiated arbital proceedings in the ICSID.

Given the Dathcom partners' antagonism towards AVZ, I wonder how AVZ got them to agree to ICSID arbitration. Surely, Cominiere (and Zijin) have nothing to gain and a lot to lose in having their corruption, shitfuckery and disregard of the terms of the joint venture agreement exposed in the ICSID setting...so I'm wondering what's in it for them at the ICSID other than the ML, which they have deliberately stalled for the past year.

Cheers
F
 
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obe wan

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AVZ's introduction to its latest announcement (9 Jun 2023) reads as follows:

AVZ International Pty Ltd (AVZI), Green Lithium Holdings Pte Ltd (GLH) (which are both wholly-owned subsidiaries of AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX : AVZ, OTCQX : AZZVF) (Company) and have legal title to AVZ’s 75% interest in Dathcom) along with Dathcom Mining SA (Dathcom) (together, the Claimants) have jointly lodged a request (Arbitration Request) to commence international arbitration proceedings against the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)...

I think this long-winded legalese means that AVZ (and its subsidiaries), and Dathcom (and its partners) initiated arbital proceedings in the ICSID.

Given the Dathcom partners' antagonism towards AVZ, I wonder how AVZ got them to agree to ICSID arbitration. Surely, Cominiere (and Zijin) have nothing to gain and a lot to lose in having their corruption, shitfuckery and disregard of the terms of the joint venture agreement exposed in the ICSID setting...so I'm wondering what's in it for them at the ICSID other than the ML, which they have deliberately stalled for the past year.

Cheers
F
Probably because AVZ represents the majority of Dathcom SA, even though that would wash half of Célestin's claims down the sink .
Obviously DLA Piper and ICSID front end backing the majority management decisions within Dathcom SA.

AVZ holding over 50% in Dathcom, so there's the decision i suppose.

We've seen CKK state that the contract was wrong ....3-5 years after initially signing it and just before ML decree...shows you what a clown that guy is
 
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9cardomaha

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AVZ's introduction to its latest announcement (9 Jun 2023) reads as follows:

AVZ International Pty Ltd (AVZI), Green Lithium Holdings Pte Ltd (GLH) (which are both wholly-owned subsidiaries of AVZ Minerals Limited (ASX : AVZ, OTCQX : AZZVF) (Company) and have legal title to AVZ’s 75% interest in Dathcom) along with Dathcom Mining SA (Dathcom) (together, the Claimants) have jointly lodged a request (Arbitration Request) to commence international arbitration proceedings against the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)...

I think this long-winded legalese means that AVZ (and its subsidiaries), and Dathcom (and its partners) initiated arbital proceedings in the ICSID.

Given the Dathcom partners' antagonism towards AVZ, I wonder how AVZ got them to agree to ICSID arbitration. Surely, Cominiere (and Zijin) have nothing to gain and a lot to lose in having their corruption, shitfuckery and disregard of the terms of the joint venture agreement exposed in the ICSID setting...so I'm wondering what's in it for them at the ICSID other than the ML, which they have deliberately stalled for the past year.

Cheers
F
The same thing was irking me, but ZJ being 'out' makes this easier to fathom (though it does bring into focus the timeline of events ie application of ICSID, and ZJ fucking off, but whatever, who's keeping track).

For Cominiere, lack of the embarrassment gene and probably thinking this is a plan B to restock their snacks right....

Dathomir not really a concern either since through this process we are fucking 75% despite shitfuckery of CONG, so they can get the fuck right out of here.

My two cents of course, take it or leave it etc.

Edit: Obe covered it more eloquently.
 
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Jazz

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Update.
I have received a good response to the share holder catch up, and a number of direct messages. So this event will be proceeding.

Before the last roadshow a number of holders met up at Young and Jacksons pub in town. Its a good central location, access to transport, and the majority of us are familiar with it. We will be in the side room on the Flinders street side.

Will be there around 6:30pm Tuesday 27th June.

As mentioned previously, and particularly to recent holders. Don't expect any inside info that is going to miraculously change your feelings about this situation. But you can expect to meet people who can fill in some gaps for you, and possibly clarify the potential outcomes from here.

Lurkers and trolls you will no doubt have something to say on this, so i have prepared some notes for you to cut and paste so you can get back to whatever you do...

"AVZ shareholders set up support group in Melbourne LOL, lost cause..."
"AVZ holders seen hugging, crying and throwing up in laneway off flinders street, all Nigel's fault"
"Baggies seen applying for job at local Melbourne bar, manager charges them $100m and a 6 year unpaid trial instead, then gives the job to their cousin"
"AVZ SH's pool their funds in cap raise to buy a kebab and get an uber home, only to find 15% of their home missing"
Update 2.
Just confirming we will be meeting at Young and Jacksons in Melbourne next Tuesday 27th at 6:30pm.

I have confirmed with the pub that there are no bookings or events on Tuesday, as I feel an overcrowded venue would make discussion difficult. But it would be helpful if those who are going to attend could send me a direct message so I can get a gauge on the rough numbers. If it turns out numbers are quite high we may look at reserving a small function room.

We currently have a few knowledgeable holders interested in calling in, so should be a good night.

I look forward to meeting up with you all over a few beers.
 
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Panther22

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The vast majority of DRC voters have no fucking idea about the Dathcom issue imo
Update 2.
Just confirming we will be meeting at Young and Jacksons in Melbourne next Tuesday 27th at 6:30pm.

I have confirmed with the pub that there are no bookings or events on Tuesday, as I feel an overcrowded venue would make discussion difficult. But it would be helpful if those who are going to attend could send me a direct message so I can get a gauge on the rough numbers. If it turns out numbers are quite high we may look at reserving a small function room.

We currently have a few knowledgeable holders interested in calling in, so should be a good night.

I look forward to meeting up with you all over a few beers.
I am definitely interested in that. Will talk to a couple of others that don't follow here too and let you know.
 
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