AVZ Discussion 2022

[Samus]

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono or they would have invested in it in the first place.
Drawing some conclusion that holding an arbitration hearing in US courts means that they're backing AVZ is a desperate pack of bullshit imo.
A bit of diplomacy here and there that never amounts to anything, wank, wank, wank with a cheese grater.

 

[Roon]

There is zero chance the gringos are going to fund a battery value chain in the DRC while corruption is rampant and all profits go to China imo
View attachment 38178
View attachment 38179
View attachment 38180

Oh I agree, that's partly why I don't think they'll be funding or building one at all

 

[Carlos Danger]

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono or they would have invested in it in the first place.
Drawing some conclusion that holding an arbitration hearing in US courts means that they're backing AVZ is a desperate pack of bullshit imo.
A bit of diplomacy here and there that never amounts to anything, wank, wank, wank with a cheese grater.

Elections have consequences imo

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Any truth in this? @Nellie17 @The Fox @9cardomaha

Oooh, they sound a bit grumpy…

Ok, so you know I love my out-of-the-box thinking, so here’s an idea i’d like to put forward for consideration by the government of the DRC:

Issue. the. fucking. mining. license.

#FuckZijin

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

Not exactly rocket science. The DRC wants AVZ to drop all legal actions against actors violating their legal rights, in which the DRC is either directly complicit, if not contributary due to being willfully inactive. We'll drop them when the DRC follows their own mining laws and Cominiere adheres to the terms of the JV. The DRC has been given more than enough chances to do the right thing.

It’s that fucking simple.

 

[RHyNO]

The gringos are doing this for themselves not Nigel

Ultimately this is now up to Felix so it may still not have a bearing on a positive outcome for AVZ as he may choose China over the west

But if you had read the the MOU you would understand that it has absolutely nothing to do with cobalt import contracts lmfao

I was being flippant. I thought that was implied in the tone. I’ve read the MOU. And I think you’re right Re the choice about the west vs China. What a fucking lame way for us all to lose money. Because a corrupt asshole threw his people under the bus. I wonder if Cath might weigh in in our support.

 

[j.l]

Dathcom still legally own the tenement. It would be much easier to buy us out than go through all the legal dramas of having it just awarded to someone else. The gringos are ruthless but they wouldn't be with an Australian company imo

Then they would open themselves up to arbitration proceedings which could amount to billions and billions as the project starts generating money and it becomes obvious what it is really worth. USA are supposed to be an Australian ally also. May be better to pay $2 now rather than have a $10 billion arbitration claim.

Works for me!

 

[Frank]

*In other News, I see where Ol' Antoinette ( MoM ) is under the Pump ( Please Explain ) for Violating Mining Laws by the look of it, as

SACIM affair: the Senate joins Ngoyi Kasanji and demands that the Minister of Mines cancel the decree granting the diamond marketing monopoly to the CEEC

The Congolese Senate invites the Minister of Mines, Antoinette Nsamba, to report the decree entrusting the monopoly of marketing to the Center of Expertise, Evaluation and Certification (CEEC) excluding other bidders for diamond tenders.

Its president, Modeste Bahati, notified it via correspondence dated June 5, 2023, a copy of which is relayed by RTNC.

“I have the honor to remind you of the resolution of the Senate to report your Order n°0049/CAB.MINMINES/01/2022 of February 22, 2022 which violates articles 85 and 105 of law number 18/001 of March 09 2018 amending and supplementing Law No. 007/2002 of July 11, 2002,” writes Modeste Bahati.

And to motivate:

“Indeed, your decree below entrusts the diamond marketing monopoly to the CEEC, excluding other tenderers.

This causes significant shortfalls for producing companies and national and provincial public services that benefit from taxes, duties and mining royalties when tenders are validated at prices far below those of the market”.

As a reminder, national deputy Alphonse Ngoyi Kasanji had seized the country's institutions for this decree which, according to him, will precipitate the bankruptcy of the Anhui/Congo Mining Investment Company (SACIM) in Kasai Oriental after the MIBA cycle.

mediacongo


*Now how about calling her out / into Question on AVZ & Manono

Food for thought

Frank

 

[Frank]

*Fyi, In other News, Fwiw, I see where,

Foreign direct investment: the United Kingdom and China, the largest investing countries in the DRC

The figures published by the national investment promotion agency (ANAPI) confirm a large domination of the Western bloc, between 2017 and 2021, in terms of investments in the DRC.

The UK leads with US$1.9 billion invested during this period, while China takes second place with 1.5 billion.

Furthermore, the “Services” sector attracted the bulk of Foreign Direct Investments (FDI), representing 57% of the 388 approved projects.

The ANAPI document is published at a crucial moment for the DRC and for Africa.

Indeed, the current sluggishness of the global economy inevitably worries about global FDI flows.

According to the United Nations, the fragility of the growth of real productive investment persists due to the war in Ukraine, with its triple food, energy and financial crisis, but also the COVID-19 pandemic and the disruption climatic.

The fear of a loss of momentum in international investment is not to be neglected in the near future, with the risk of directly impacting the efforts made to increase financing for sustainable development.

On the African continent, the DRC represents a very minor issue in the context of FDI.

Due to stable governance and strong legal framework, four African countries, namely Egypt, Morocco, Ghana and South Africa, are included in the top 25 emerging markets more promising for FDI over the next three years (2023 – 2024 – 2025).

However, taken as a whole, Africa remains uncompetitive.

In 2021, the region recorded one of the strongest increases in global investment flows.

The latter represented barely 5.2% of FDI, compared to 4.1% in 2020.

However, the ANAPI figures are of some interest in the context of the DRC, a country wishing to become a land of opportunities for investments in all sectors of national life.

The published document includes valuable information on a number of areas: countries that have invested the most, amounts approved, projects approved, trends, sectors most in demand, etc.

Between 2016 and 2021, a period of six years, net FDI increased from 933 million US dollars to 1.678 billion.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the country recorded a drop between 2018 and 2019, from 1.408 to 1.354 million dollars.

For the six years under review, incoming FDI occupied more than 80% of the overall envelope.

In total, the DRC approved 388 projects in the service sectors ($9.3 billion; 57%), industry ($4.23 billion; 38%), infrastructure ($462.1 million; 3% ) as well as agriculture and operations ($29.7 million; 2%).

For the rest, it should be noted that a Western bloc country, in this case the United Kingdom, comes first in investments ($1.9 billion), followed by China (1.5 billion), South Africa ($1.3 billion), Belgium ($708 million), United Arab Emirates ($547 million), Mauritius ($391 million), Uganda ($338 million ), the United States of America ($318 million), Panama ($265 million) and Lebanon ($223 million).

This top ten calls into question the whole perception of the commitment of the different communities present in the DRC.

Indeed, there was no indication that Uganda could represent the seventh country that has invested the most in Congo.

The most beneficiary provinces are the capital Kinshasa, with its 127 approved projects, and Haut-Katanga, which benefited from 33 projects worth $4.5 billion, i.e. the highest cost, far ahead of Kinshasa (1.4 billion).

mediacongo


Food for thought

Frank

 

[Frank]

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono or they would have invested in it in the first place.
Drawing some conclusion that holding an arbitration hearing in US courts means that they're backing AVZ is a desperate pack of bullshit imo.
A bit of diplomacy here and there that never amounts to anything, wank, wank, wank with a cheese grater.

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono

*Maybe, Maybe Not, Time will tell, but for now the EU might

*To remind,

DRC-EU, value chain of strategic minerals: a memorandum of understanding will be signed before September

Before September 2023, a memorandum of understanding on the value chain of strategic minerals will be signed between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the European Union (EU), announced the spokesman of the government, Patrick Muyaya, at the end of the Council of Ministers led on Friday by the President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi.

The Head of State instructed the Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, to set up a multisectoral and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing of this protocol of agreement.

According to the government spokesman, President Félix Tshisekedi insisted that the two parties (DRC-EU) agree "on a roadmap around industrial projects for the transformation and valorization of critical minerals which will make it possible to accelerate the ecological transition in the DRC and in the European Union”.

“The Prime Minister has therefore been instructed to set up a multi-sector and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing, before September 2023, of a protocol agreement between the DRC and the European Commission through its delegation in our country.

The September deadline being that of the holding in Kinshasa of the DRC-Africa Forum devoted to battery metals, an opportunity for our country to highlight such an agreement,” said Patrick Muyaya.

Following the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron from March 3 to 5 in Kinshasa, the Minister of Mines of the DRC, the European Commissioner in charge of the internal market had started discussions for the conclusion of a partnership on the responsible value chain for strategic minerals, he recalled.

This meeting was sanctioned, specifies Muyaya, by a joint press release which emphasized the commitment of the two parties to launch negotiations and to set up a working group in order to continue the said discussions with the objective of concluding the strategic partnership between the European Union on the value chain of strategic minerals.

“However, at the end of the first round of discussions, it turned out that the scope of the partnership sought required a transversal approach requiring the involvement of all the sectoral ministries concerned, including the governance unit which is housed in the Presidential Council of strategic intelligence,” he said.

The DRC is one of the world's leading producers of cobalt and copper and the EU, which is among the main consumers, is convinced that this partnership will create jobs and growth for Congolese citizens and support Europe's ecological transition.

This partnership is part of the new EU strategy for the Great Lakes and the Global Gateway.

It will be based on four pillars, namely: the value chain of critical minerals, cooperation in research and innovation, alignment with environmental, social and governance criteria as well as capacity building.

mediacongo


Food for thought

Frank

 

[Frank]

 

[Flight996]

MoUs are just that...

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono

*Maybe, Maybe Not, Time will tell, but for now the EU might

*To remind,

DRC-EU, value chain of strategic minerals: a memorandum of understanding will be signed before September

Before September 2023, a memorandum of understanding on the value chain of strategic minerals will be signed between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the European Union (EU), announced the spokesman of the government, Patrick Muyaya, at the end of the Council of Ministers led on Friday by the President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi.

The Head of State instructed the Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, to set up a multisectoral and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing of this protocol of agreement.

According to the government spokesman, President Félix Tshisekedi insisted that the two parties (DRC-EU) agree "on a roadmap around industrial projects for the transformation and valorization of critical minerals which will make it possible to accelerate the ecological transition in the DRC and in the European Union”.

“The Prime Minister has therefore been instructed to set up a multi-sector and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing, before September 2023, of a protocol agreement between the DRC and the European Commission through its delegation in our country.

The September deadline being that of the holding in Kinshasa of the DRC-Africa Forum devoted to battery metals, an opportunity for our country to highlight such an agreement,” said Patrick Muyaya.

Following the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron from March 3 to 5 in Kinshasa, the Minister of Mines of the DRC, the European Commissioner in charge of the internal market had started discussions for the conclusion of a partnership on the responsible value chain for strategic minerals, he recalled.

This meeting was sanctioned, specifies Muyaya, by a joint press release which emphasized the commitment of the two parties to launch negotiations and to set up a working group in order to continue the said discussions with the objective of concluding the strategic partnership between the European Union on the value chain of strategic minerals.

“However, at the end of the first round of discussions, it turned out that the scope of the partnership sought required a transversal approach requiring the involvement of all the sectoral ministries concerned, including the governance unit which is housed in the Presidential Council of strategic intelligence,” he said.

The DRC is one of the world's leading producers of cobalt and copper and the EU, which is among the main consumers, is convinced that this partnership will create jobs and growth for Congolese citizens and support Europe's ecological transition.

This partnership is part of the new EU strategy for the Great Lakes and the Global Gateway.

It will be based on four pillars, namely: the value chain of critical minerals, cooperation in research and innovation, alignment with environmental, social and governance criteria as well as capacity building.

mediacongo


Food for thought

Frank

I think Sammael is pretty close to the money.

An MoU does not commit governments to do anything, or provide funding support. That's not the purpose of an MoU. An MoU is about in-principle support in building capacity for an aspirational goal that may or may not be realised at some time in the future. It's like the do-nothing option, but in a polite and politically palatable form.

And since the DRC will probably never get its battery value chain or its digital economy in place, there is no downside to signing an in-principle document of support.

Oh, and the USA has absolutely no intention of getting involved in the shitfuckery kingdom of the DRC, regardless of China's presence there.

Cheers
F

 

[Frank]

 

[Charbella]

MoUs are just that...


I think Sammael is pretty close to the money.

An MoU does not commit governments to do anything, or provide funding support. That's not the purpose of an MoU. An MoU is about in-principle support in building capacity for an aspirational goal that may or may not be realised at some time in the future. It's like the do-nothing option, but in a polite and politically palatable form.

And since the DRC will probably never get its battery value chain or its digital economy in place, there is no downside to signing an in-principle document of support.

Oh, and the USA has absolutely no intention of getting involved in the shitfuckery kingdom of the DRC, regardless of China's presence there.

Cheers
F

Absolutely not! US wants to win on green energy transition, we are talking about 25% world reserve of lithium in Manono. This is the same reason why we are in this predicament.

 

[Flight996]

Absolutely not! US wants to win on green energy transition, we are talking about 25% world reserve of lithium in Manono. This is the same reason why we are in this predicament.

While the US wants to win the African geo-politics game, it's attention is elsewhere at the moment. There are also numerous lithium options in Canada where the sovereign risk is minimal.

I see no verifiable evidence of a US commitment to anything significant in the DRC.

 

[Charbella]

While the US wants to win the African geo-politics game, it's attention is elsewhere at the moment. There are also numerous lithium options in Canada where the sovereign risk is minimal.

I see no verifiable evidence of a US commitment to anything significant in the DRC.

Can you back up your answer with examples of lithium supply where US can get their hands on which is not already controlled by the Chinese in Canada?

 

[obe wan]

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono or they would have invested in it in the first place.
Drawing some conclusion that holding an arbitration hearing in US courts means that they're backing AVZ is a desperate pack of bullshit imo.
A bit of diplomacy here and there that never amounts to anything, wank, wank, wank with a cheese grater.

I think some maybe missing the point with the fact that ICSID is actually part of world bank.

World bank has been approving cash injections into DRC and being the source of improved access to community infrastructure and community-based reintegration programs etc ; 2 injections one at $900m and another at $250m have been approved over the last 4 months mainly targeting issues in the Eastern Provence’s ….. FT was given a $1m token for the eastern Provence’s issues on his visit to China.

3 weeks ago world bank pulled the handbrake on funding for humanitarian and development projects in the DRC worth more than $1 billion due to typical fuckery around large rooms of cash . FT was pretty quick to react and get the issues levelled out again.

Problem for DRC is that AVZs request for arbitration effectively through world bank doesn’t go to smooth out US corruption concerns regards to the DRC and the funding sphincter has likely contracted somewhat , as new funding requests are highly likely to come with added Q&A pages . AVZ have followed the mining code and have been above board ; DRC ministers who would typical be used to channel funding to their required pigeon holes …. Well it’s proving , that they are not following rules … so would one be trusting enough, that the ministers are distributing the much needed cash, into all the appropriate accounts?

FT needs to be showing that corruption is on the decline ,as opposed to running around trying to put out reoccurring corruption patch fires on a very regular occurrence .

Also it’s work googling advantages of ICSID v ICC .

It’s a request for ICSID at the moment ; so does FT want to come to the table and work it out or get another couple of amber watchdog lights lit up , send Manono into 1-3 year marathon whilst the rest of the lithium explorers start to move ahead and start production ; whilst at the end the ICSID would likely award it at the end anyway.

 

[Flight996]

Can you back up your answer with examples of lithium supply where US can get their hands on which is not already controlled by the Chinese in Canada?

Sorry, not doing your research for you, but perhaps commence with North American Lithium, Whabouchi, Tanco Mine, La Corne and Arcadia for starters. And PMT, which rivals Manono will be producing well before a single shovel is turned at Manono.
End of this conversation.

 

[cruiser51]

Looks like Felix read the MOU lmao

If I get called before court because of fraud, I would like also that case to be dropped ffs.
They know, because of their actions how this will finish.

It is not AVZ who wiped its arse with DRC law, but the DRC government in cahoots with its fraudulent actors!

 

[cruiser51]

It's pretty clear Americans couldn't give a fuck about Manono

*Maybe, Maybe Not, Time will tell, but for now the EU might

*To remind,

DRC-EU, value chain of strategic minerals: a memorandum of understanding will be signed before September

Before September 2023, a memorandum of understanding on the value chain of strategic minerals will be signed between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the European Union (EU), announced the spokesman of the government, Patrick Muyaya, at the end of the Council of Ministers led on Friday by the President of the Republic, Félix Tshisekedi.

The Head of State instructed the Prime Minister, Jean-Michel Sama Lukonde, to set up a multisectoral and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing of this protocol of agreement.

According to the government spokesman, President Félix Tshisekedi insisted that the two parties (DRC-EU) agree "on a roadmap around industrial projects for the transformation and valorization of critical minerals which will make it possible to accelerate the ecological transition in the DRC and in the European Union”.

“The Prime Minister has therefore been instructed to set up a multi-sector and inclusive Congolese team which will make up the negotiating committee empowered to discuss with European Union officials to lead to the signing, before September 2023, of a protocol agreement between the DRC and the European Commission through its delegation in our country.

The September deadline being that of the holding in Kinshasa of the DRC-Africa Forum devoted to battery metals, an opportunity for our country to highlight such an agreement,” said Patrick Muyaya.

Following the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron from March 3 to 5 in Kinshasa, the Minister of Mines of the DRC, the European Commissioner in charge of the internal market had started discussions for the conclusion of a partnership on the responsible value chain for strategic minerals, he recalled.

This meeting was sanctioned, specifies Muyaya, by a joint press release which emphasized the commitment of the two parties to launch negotiations and to set up a working group in order to continue the said discussions with the objective of concluding the strategic partnership between the European Union on the value chain of strategic minerals.

“However, at the end of the first round of discussions, it turned out that the scope of the partnership sought required a transversal approach requiring the involvement of all the sectoral ministries concerned, including the governance unit which is housed in the Presidential Council of strategic intelligence,” he said.

The DRC is one of the world's leading producers of cobalt and copper and the EU, which is among the main consumers, is convinced that this partnership will create jobs and growth for Congolese citizens and support Europe's ecological transition.

This partnership is part of the new EU strategy for the Great Lakes and the Global Gateway.

It will be based on four pillars, namely: the value chain of critical minerals, cooperation in research and innovation, alignment with environmental, social and governance criteria as well as capacity building.

mediacongo


Food for thought

Frank

However due to a corruption case it will be fuk u.
With compliments from the world bank.
Maybe Felix understands now.