Could possibly be. The case was registered today, hence the company must make the announcement.
Excellent find @Carlos Danger
This doesn’t change the progress AVZ may have made recently as the average waiting time is 83 days.
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AVZ Discussion 2022
- Thread starter GazDix
- Start date
Excellent find @Carlos Danger
This doesn’t change the progress AVZ may have made recently as the average waiting time is 83 days.
Frank
Top 20
It is Now Wino
Now we all have something really juicy to sink our Teeth into over the long Weekend
This is going to be Epic, requiring plenty of Popcorn and Piss to get us all through it imo
Buckle Up Boys & Girls, The Shit is about to get Real / Interesting
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It's possible.
I'm done with positivity though, plenty of others for that.
Let's hope it doesn't take another 6-12 months to get some sort of outcome from this. Should have put this pressure on long time ago.
Felix has decided not to choose a side and let his corrupt government manage things. Time to act like a president and make a call.
for a slightly more positive speculation on this announcement -
Could be that it was actually encouraged by Felix.
Action is against the DRC government. Yes. But that is not a cohesive whole in any way. FT actively trying to change the way the governments operates and reduce corruption. But that's a damn hard job and there's only so many levers he can pull. So instead, he's bringing in an external hammer to smash corrupt actors, and the only way he could give legitimacy to such an external hammer is for something like this to happen - a company to raise a dispute against the government in an international forum.
It's also interesting to note that this action is being brought by AVZI, GLH as well as Dathcom, but no sign of Dathcom's other owners....
EDIT:
Just thinking further, could be that it was encouraged by Felix AND/OR the US/AusEmbassy - A way for international pressure to help push this thing forward, where everything is transparent and China can't play their funny games.
Could be that it was actually encouraged by Felix.
Action is against the DRC government. Yes. But that is not a cohesive whole in any way. FT actively trying to change the way the governments operates and reduce corruption. But that's a damn hard job and there's only so many levers he can pull. So instead, he's bringing in an external hammer to smash corrupt actors, and the only way he could give legitimacy to such an external hammer is for something like this to happen - a company to raise a dispute against the government in an international forum.
It's also interesting to note that this action is being brought by AVZI, GLH as well as Dathcom, but no sign of Dathcom's other owners....
EDIT:
Just thinking further, could be that it was encouraged by Felix AND/OR the US/AusEmbassy - A way for international pressure to help push this thing forward, where everything is transparent and China can't play their funny games.
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Carlos Danger
Top 20
The shortest is 3 days so it could have been lodged this week. But my inkling is this process began when 'other foreign embassies in the region, whom jointly share a common interest to support investment transparency in Africa's mining industry' got involved in March. The question now is does Felix want the gringos to honour the MOU for supporting his battery supply chain vision or will he go back to Beijing and get insulted again.
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3 days for AVZ? Nah, never going to happen. I am wondering why in this instance we have gone with ICSID Arbitration instead of ICC Arbitration. Your thoughts?
Flexi
Regular
The time has come to attack the corrupt Government including Felix for failure to act.
As I cannot afford to travel for the long weekend, I now have something to occupy myself with on Twitter
I have eased off on two previous occasions because of requests to delete my posts, now its "all out" war on the corrupt and Felix.
As I cannot afford to travel for the long weekend, I now have something to occupy myself with on Twitter
I have eased off on two previous occasions because of requests to delete my posts, now its "all out" war on the corrupt and Felix.
That was my thinking.
Maybe Zingy Pingy told FT exactly how things are gonna be.
With increasing western involvement both behind the scenes stuff and in the infrastructure that inevitably follows, then maybe this is a way to nicely tell China that laws prevail eventually and DRC needs to implement them.
Or maybe it's my rose coloured spectacles.
Either way things are gonna happen soon.
Bring it on-we can't wait forever.
After two years of endless fuckery by Chinese mining companies and a complicit DRC government, it seems that AVZ has run out of patience.
This latest move to take the DRC to the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) is a strategic move that should get the attention not only the corrupt DRC government, but also governments and regulatory bodies in mining jurisdictions globally.
As we are aware, the ICSID provides facilities for the conciliation and arbitration of international investment disputes. There are potentially four steps in the ICSID process (If you can't be stuffed reading all the steps, just ignore the first three and read step four only (That's the testicle in the spag bol).
1. JURISDICTION: Determining if the ICSID has jurisdiction to hear the case. If one party objects to the ICSID hearing the case, it is referred to a tribunal for determination.
2. CONCILIATION: If the parties agree, the dispute may be resolved through conciliation. This is a voluntary, non-binding process in which a neutral third party helps the parties reach a mutually acceptable settlement.
3. ARBITRATION: If the dispute is not resolved through conciliation, it may proceed to arbitration. The tribunal is composed of one or three arbitrators, depending on the agreement of the parties. The tribunal will hear evidence and arguments from both parties and issue a binding decision.
4. ENFORCEMENT: If a party fails to comply with the tribunal's decision, the other party may seek enforcement in national courts. The New York Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards provides a framework for the recognition and enforcement of ICSID awards in over 160 countries. The DRC has an enormous amount of assets in the USA, which can be garnered if necessary.
The DRC is a signatory to this process, and will be bound by its decision/s. However, as I have said previously, the outcome is likely to be a negotiated one, rather than an enforced one.
Bring it on I say.
Cheers
F
https://icsid.worldbank.org/sites/default/files/documents/ICSID_Convention.pdf
This latest move to take the DRC to the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) is a strategic move that should get the attention not only the corrupt DRC government, but also governments and regulatory bodies in mining jurisdictions globally.
As we are aware, the ICSID provides facilities for the conciliation and arbitration of international investment disputes. There are potentially four steps in the ICSID process (If you can't be stuffed reading all the steps, just ignore the first three and read step four only (That's the testicle in the spag bol).
1. JURISDICTION: Determining if the ICSID has jurisdiction to hear the case. If one party objects to the ICSID hearing the case, it is referred to a tribunal for determination.
2. CONCILIATION: If the parties agree, the dispute may be resolved through conciliation. This is a voluntary, non-binding process in which a neutral third party helps the parties reach a mutually acceptable settlement.
3. ARBITRATION: If the dispute is not resolved through conciliation, it may proceed to arbitration. The tribunal is composed of one or three arbitrators, depending on the agreement of the parties. The tribunal will hear evidence and arguments from both parties and issue a binding decision.
4. ENFORCEMENT: If a party fails to comply with the tribunal's decision, the other party may seek enforcement in national courts. The New York Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards provides a framework for the recognition and enforcement of ICSID awards in over 160 countries. The DRC has an enormous amount of assets in the USA, which can be garnered if necessary.
The DRC is a signatory to this process, and will be bound by its decision/s. However, as I have said previously, the outcome is likely to be a negotiated one, rather than an enforced one.
Bring it on I say.
Cheers
F
https://icsid.worldbank.org/sites/default/files/documents/ICSID_Convention.pdf
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As I've said numerous times, Felix is part of the corruption.
Felix has had 13 months to put his foot down and issue the license. The flaming president of a country can make a decision and have it actioned within 24 hours if they want, not Felix.
This is a perfect master stroke by AVZ. Right before mining week, put on the world stage to see the cluster they are embroiled in.
So IMHO.. it's actually over as we stand, we aren't getting a mining license in the current environment with the current decision makers. This next step is going to force Felix and co to individually respond and make action. Otherwise they'll be coughing up some dollars (NFI where that will come from as they are broker than broke back mountain).
Lets sit back and enjoy life my fellow investors, we just have to wait and see the outcome in the next 30-730 days.
Felix has had 13 months to put his foot down and issue the license. The flaming president of a country can make a decision and have it actioned within 24 hours if they want, not Felix.
This is a perfect master stroke by AVZ. Right before mining week, put on the world stage to see the cluster they are embroiled in.
So IMHO.. it's actually over as we stand, we aren't getting a mining license in the current environment with the current decision makers. This next step is going to force Felix and co to individually respond and make action. Otherwise they'll be coughing up some dollars (NFI where that will come from as they are broker than broke back mountain).
Lets sit back and enjoy life my fellow investors, we just have to wait and see the outcome in the next 30-730 days.
Problem is if you give in a little then next thing you know you've lost it all. All for probably bugger all too.
Chilla
Regular
As with most AVZ Announcements, you need to read a few times….let the emotions settle…..think a little bit deeper…..interpret how it fits into the overall situation. Best done while enjoying an alcoholic beverage or three imo.
I’m with a few others on this one. Probably lodged a few months ago in response to the MoM rescinding the decree and following input from the advisor, DLA and embassies of USA and Aus. It’s an administrative filing that has been accepted and imo intended to put the President and Ministers on Notice that the process has been commenced to get this sorted.
Noise of ZJN withdrawal and Cominiere swapped out and then the submission of ZJN to ICC, which includes Cominiere, could be results of this process being commenced and DRC taking action to rectify.
Good that AVZ commenced this action, likely back in March or April, and has started the clock for President to walk the talk or face the consequences of international community plus damages payout in excess of US $10bil….possibly double that imo.
Imo I think the noise of the last few weeks is a result of this action going on in the background and the DRC working to resolve.
I’m with a few others on this one. Probably lodged a few months ago in response to the MoM rescinding the decree and following input from the advisor, DLA and embassies of USA and Aus. It’s an administrative filing that has been accepted and imo intended to put the President and Ministers on Notice that the process has been commenced to get this sorted.
Noise of ZJN withdrawal and Cominiere swapped out and then the submission of ZJN to ICC, which includes Cominiere, could be results of this process being commenced and DRC taking action to rectify.
Good that AVZ commenced this action, likely back in March or April, and has started the clock for President to walk the talk or face the consequences of international community plus damages payout in excess of US $10bil….possibly double that imo.
Imo I think the noise of the last few weeks is a result of this action going on in the background and the DRC working to resolve.
RHyNO
Regular
If we commenced this action in April. Why not mention that in the announcement?
Carlos Danger
Top 20
I thought I made it pretty clear why I think this is happening in gringoland haha
This wasn't management's idea imo
Just on outcome 4, reading the attached document section 54 - the national courts referred to are the national courts of the contracting state. Namely the DRC. So should the loser not play ball the decisions are to be enforced by their own courts, not those of the US - so I don't think it would be USA garnishing DRC assets abroad to ensure the payment in this case. I'm not saying the DRC wouldn't pay, because the DRC is indeed bound by this, but it's up to its own courts to enforce it if the award isn't handed over. We haven't had much love with DRC courts but this would be on a different level of magnitude, and probably harder to undermine through corruption.
Let's hope we don't get that far anyway! Reading the doc I like the conciliation part. Launching this case could be to apply pressure and get outside eyes-on, and they may be using this tactics of reputational and prospective investment damage just to get to that reconciliation process, whereby they get together with the DRC government (if they accept to take part) to see if there is a solution. DRC might tell us to fuck off after this of course and skip that stage, so its certainly an all-in gamble, but I guess we're at that point where we have little other option but press.
What a Rollercoaster this is. I don't think I can take another few years of this, as awesome as most of you cats are, so let's fix this through reconciliation please.
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Zijin is fucking around and delaying the process through the ICC.
So, I see this action also as a shot across the bow for the ICC not to be fukked around by Chinese fukkers with deep pockets.
If the ICC loses its name as an independent body, but can be seen as an organisation which can be exercised with brown paper bags, they can shut up shop in Paris.
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