AVZ Discussion 2022

[Carlos Danger]

Felix went back home early, Kinshasa is flooding and he blames the climate, as you do, so now he is asking for damages.

Wow, wow, more snacks.

Sorry Felix, this is what you get if you do not nip fraud in the butt.

It is better overall that Felix hasn't been throwing his weight around and is waiting for all of the facts to be on the table. As Nigel said at the AGM 'President had a bad view from being ill advised by detractors (e.g. we hadn’t done anything, didn’t have money experience, and were speculators)'. I don't think we would have liked him issuing a decree about Manono when he was misinformed. Especially as we were being told that we had 'support from the highest levels of the DRC government' in official company announcements at the time.

Der Geist or one of his variations posted a screenshot from a whatsapp conversation a few months ago that showed someone talking about how Nigel and Mupande hadn't spoken in years and this could all be sorted out if they communicated without lawyers. Or something like that. I think it was Klaus saying it.

Maybe that's true maybe it isn't. Maybe the only way to talk to Mupande without lawyers is by providing snacks. Whatever the case it is definitely a fuck up by management that they didn't anticipate this being a potential issue before it happened considering their combined experience in the country. In the May 4th ministerial decree announcement they said registration would be completed 'in a matter of days' and we traded for 3 sessions after that.

CAMI's legal role in the process is to add up the surface rights and register the licence. That's it. Mupande isn't meant to be opining on Dathcom's ownership structure or any of the other crap he is hiding behind. Unfortunately no one in the government can legally force him to complete the registration. As Franck Fwamba said it is a governance issue. The mining code doesn't contain a mechanism for this situation to be resolved.

The only two people I trust in this entire shit show are Jules Alingete and Franck Fwamba. Both of them have no vested interest in AVZ and have repeatedly spoken of being motivated by the law of the DRC and it being implemented to benefit the DRC people. I respect that a lot. They have looked at the case impartially and are speaking up for us because the truth is on our side.

 

[DoubleA]

Lots of discussions referencing AVZ

 

[Hudnut]

Lots of discussions referencing AVZ

A summary of the auto translate from the video after a brief discussion re: current flooding in Kinsasha:

Guest is Kas Kasongo from MCA movement who fight against embezzlement and corruption in the DRC.

• A rundown on the ownership history to give context for the rest of the discussion
• Cominiere gives 70% to Dathomir without having done a valuation on the deposit in return for road being built
• Cominiere gives further 5% to Dathomir without a valuation being built.
• At this point Cominiere has 25% ownership
• 60% from Dathomir goes to AVZ via Dathcom.

Now the important parts

• AVZ commissions independent valuation of the deposit from an internationally recognised 3rd party with proper experience,

• Due to the valuation coming through people start to get interested, and Cominiere sell 15% to Zijin for $33M. This is $2.2M for each 1% ($33m/15% - $2.2M). This is one of the main points of the IGF report.

• Question from presenter – “Is the IGF report wrong, and how do they know that’s not the correct number?”
  Answer – Because they can read it from the independent report commissioned by AVZ which values the deposit at $10M per 1%. Importantly, AVZ recognise this and sell 24% to CATH for $240M. Also Importantly, Cominiere also have this report so are aware of the value. The 15% should be sold for $150M.

• Rhetorical questions from Guest:
  Q1. Why sell for only $33M?
  Q2. Why sell at all, when Cominiere could JV with someone and mine it themselves?
  Q3. Where did the $33M go?

• Question re: What is the process to authorise the sale to Dathomir and to Zijin?
  Answer – Not only did the Minister of Portfolio sign letters authorising the sales, proving she was aware of the sales and the amounts, she should have sought authorizing from the Minister of Mines, whose department has the technical knowledge to value the deposit properly. MoP sold without the consent of the MoM, but whether this is required or a gap in Governance process is not clear. However, we know games are being played and why the MoP circumvented this and did not consult the MoM or the Mines technical department is for her to answer. The DG’s are already arrested and the file from IGF is with the Public Prosecutor’s office who are going through it well at the moment.

Then the Presenter throws to other footage of MoP’s Director of Cabinet giving the Emerald Princess’ side of the story.

• Start with the usual “High integrity, Christian woman spiel”
• Claims AVZ offered only $1M per 1%, whereas Zijin offered $2M per 1%, and AVZ are bandits because they know its worth more after selling at $10M per 1% to CATH.
• Claims they have expertise to do their own valuation.
• Claims the cost of the mine in $600M and $240M is not enough, so instead of gaining money to build the mine AVZ basically just sold 24% of DRC deposit to CATH outside the country.
• It is known in the mining code when you make exceptional profits from mining you must pay tax, but this tax is not on sale to CATH. AVZ are just speculators based on price of lithium rising and falling. Selling to CATH outside the DRC avoids the tax.

Presenter comes back to Kas Kasongo for response:

Kas says the MoP’s DoC proves his point. The Doc says they have the technical expertise inhouse for value properly and AVZ managed to sell the deposit for $10M per %1. Everything else is a distraction from the main point, which is what the 15% is worth and why would the MoP and Cominiere sell it for $2M per % if AVZ can sell for $10M per % in the current market.

Presenter – “It becomes a matter of substance why the MoP would sell for the lower price”

Kas – “That’s what we want the Justice departments to answer. How can this be without external influences. DRC lost $121M and the only way we find out is if MoP answers in Court”

Presenter – “ Let’s focus on the $33M. Where did it go? IGF says $33M supposed to be paid. Ministers are saying other figures”

Kas – “It’s hard to argue with figures on Bank statements. The IGF has them. Not all the money was received. Everything that was received has been spent. Where did it go? People must answer. SNACKS! Why wasn’t all the money deposited? Subsequent paper trails aren’t in the correct dates to divert and lead public opinion away from the fact the remaining money was never going to be paid. The money deposited with one hand was withdrawn with the other. People attacking the IGF have not read the report.”


Presenter asks why Jules and IGF back AVZ. Kas says he doesn’t see that. As Jules says, the IGF investigated and provides reports. Others prosecute.

More stuff about why Jules would get a valuation report from AVZ and trying to tie Jules and AVZ together. AVZ gave the report to Cominiere as they needed to, mate. Jules got it from them.

Presenter throws shade on Jules’ Financial qualifications. Kas points out he doesn’t actually do the reports himself. IGF has plenty of qualified people.

 

[Dazmac66]

Many thanks for your work in translating this interview Hudnut. Let's just hope the money for snacks has all been spent. $6 mill would buy a lot of $200000 watches for the prosecutor's office.

 

[BRICK]

Many thanks for your work in translating this interview Hudnut. Let's just hope the money for snacks has all been spent. $6 mill would buy a lot of $200000 watches for the prosecutor's office.

Maybe they get a discount for buying in bulk Daz?

 

[Bray]

Interesting Hudnut, thanks for the translation mate

 

[Doc]

Ahhh the smell of announcement day.
Unfortunately the smell is dog shit not roses….

 

[whales]

The official line from CAMI is that they are still calculating the surface rights. While that is nonsensical Mupande can say and do whatever he wants. If AVZ had of given him some snacks it would have been completed in days. The fact that he has been fired by 2 different presidents and a replacement has been named yet he is still in control speaks volumes. Nothing is going to happen until he is replaced or decides to register the mining licence to try and take the heat from the IGF off him.

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View attachment 24335

This has to be done by the book. I understand Tshisekedi not intervening directly yet. He is promoting that the rule of law must be followed which means that the correct processes with the independent investigators and organisations need to be completed. The good news is all of the facts are on our side and that is recognised in the IGF report.

From the AGM Question and Answer Session:

What happened after ML Decree, spurious yet we’re in suspension. What’s the main issue for ML – is it Dathomir, is Zijin ICC arbitration 15, dispute with exploration rights?

A: Lot of players in vogue here in country, lot of hatchet jobs being done – President had a bad view from being ill advised by detractors (e.g. we hadn’t done anything, didn’t have money experience, and were speculators). Detractors continuing, but slowly slowly we’re working to remove the blocks.

We knew Chinese would have a crack, but we did not expect parts of DRC government to be in on it?

A: Nor did we - “we thought it was gambit by Chinese groups to get project cheapest way. We weren’t aware it was also elements of the government complicit. We can’t go into it, but rest assured those people are being turned over within meetings with real information is being shared, and people put on the spot.

Collusion between all those 3 – namely Zijin, Jin Cheng, CAMI?

A: That would be astute thought

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

Dathcom took Cami to court and response was they are busy calculating the surface rights.
That is an admission that Dathcom are the rightful recipients of the ML.
Otherwise CAMI would have stated that they are not going to issue the surface rights payment and open up a conflict with the Minister of Mines awarding of the ML.
Surely the court or Dathcom lawyers would ask the court for a final date for the surface rights to be paid ?
Another court hearing is overdue?

 

[investinvest]

Dathcom took Cami to court and response was they are busy calculating the surface rights.
That is an admission that Dathcom are the rightful recipients of the ML.
Otherwise CAMI would have stated that they are not going to issue the surface rights payment and open up a conflict with the Minister of Mines awarding of the ML.
Surely the court or Dathcom lawyers would ask the court for a final date for the surface rights to be paid ?
Another court hearing is overdue?

Correct. CAMI knows that Dathcom will get the ML but it wants to delay the inevitable grant of the ML.

DYOR IMO

 

[Bray]

 

[Remark]

Yup Christmas will come early, a bow wrapped around another bullshit announcement, and the card will read Dear shareholders merry Christmas and EAD

After reading the announcement I think you nailed it.

 

[Bonsoir]

View attachment 24384

At least we didn’t get the generic announcement of the past.

 

[BRICK]

View attachment 24384

WTF... why would they add that??

i would have definatly not put in competent as that will just draw suspicion hahha

"...ahhh clearly there are some who are are not but we will say they are!"

 

[Dijon101]

Only 2 weeks on this suspension.!!

Only 2 more weeks.... to be disappointed again.




Well I'm actually not disappointed as I was expecting another extension

 

[Bray]

Honestly if they had any balls they’d have wrote ‘incompetent’

 

[Hemicuda]

so the "highest levels of government" from the start has been outright bullshit?

 

[Remark]

WTF... why would they add that??

i would have definatly not put in competent as that will just draw suspicion hahha

"...ahhh clearly there are some who are are not but we will say they are!"

I thought that was a weird inclusion. Clearly some passive agressive language from mild mannered Nigel, maintain the rage slight annoyance there Nigel.

 

[Doc]

Only 2 weeks on this suspension.!!

Only 2 more weeks.... to be disappointed again.




Well I'm actually not disappointed as I was expecting another extension

Doesn’t it say 31st Jan….?

 

[BRICK]

I thought that was a weird inclusion. Clearly some passive agressive language from mild mannered Nigel, maintain the rage slight annoyance there Nigel.

a message within a message perhaps...?

 

[Retrobyte]

We're dealing with the competent authorities rather than those who are incompetent.