TLG Discussion 2022

[cosors]

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/03/business/germanium-gallium-china-export-restrictions/index.html

Thank-you china, for reminding everyone they need to invest EXTRA in diversifying their critical supply chains away from your shenanigans.

Now... what other 'critical' or 'strategic' material has a supply chain that's almost entirely dependent on china.

Just watch how fast this makes the EU run to get things like vitanngi up and running, and more importantly, SCALED-UP and running.

Sorry noisy NIMBY's and loud minority of Sami people, China basically just made sure that this is gonna happen.

gallium and germanium

What few people in the West talk about when they buy their tec as an end user is why the military dictatorship in Myanmar was able to crush the young democracy movement so easily only two years ago. Few people know that the largest global depostits of rare earths are not mined in China but in Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. Then it goes across the border to China is processed there and then ends up in our Apple or whatever, even if these companies of course claim the opposite.
Anyone who blames the USA for this trade war should look at the fate of China's neighboring countries and then ask the question again. They were also the first to give the Taliban a hand because Afghanistan has huge copper deposits. Taiwan would be just another victim.


We do not buy our Tec through dependence but through oppression and unspeakable environmental destruction. It is clear that in view of this, environmentalists, mining opponents and human rights activists prefer to look the other way instead of addressing the problem or solutions. BANANAs is much too harmless word for that.
IMO

Myanmar's poisoned mountains​

The toxic rare earth mining industry at the heart of the global green energy transition​

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/natural-resource-governance/myanmars-poisoned-mountains/


Myanmar rare earths heading toward China encounter shipment obstacles amid upheaval
Orderly increase in domestic mining, technology crucial for secure supplies: experts
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202103/1218983.shtml

____
graphite

IN YOUR PHONE, IN THEIR AIR
A trace of graphite is in consumer tech. In these Chinese villages, it’s everywhere.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/graphite-mining-pollution-in-china/

 

[Proga]

From 2025 there is going to be a massive deficit in natural graphite anode. The void will be filled by synthetic graphite. Mainly from China. By 2030, I think the graphite synthetic/natural split will be 70/30. If by some miracle sometime in the 2030's natural graphite AAM producers produce enough to surpass whatever the current demand growth is, they'll take market share from the synthetic producers not each other to get to a 50/50 split or higher.

Whenever you look at a chart showing a graphite deficit, take particular care to note if it's total graphite (synthetic and natural), natural graphite or battery grade fines flake graphite for anodes. There is a massive difference.

Less than 20% of mines coming online in the next 10 years will produce greater than 40% fine flake used for batteries. The Heilongjiang Province mines in China, SYR and TLG are the only mines I know of which can produce greater than 80% fines at scale (permit permitting). Therefore, there is going to be a massive surplus in large size flake unless hydrogen fuel cells take off which isn't factored into any charts. When a chart says total natural graphite flake will be in deficit, it's because the surplus in large size flake is dwarfed by the deficit in battery grade fines.

Also, when you read about other graphite mines coming into production, take note of their flake size ratios. Most going into production will do it by modular. For example they might have 4 modules, each module able to produce 40ktpa of concentrate and slowly build up to 160ktpa of concentrate at full production. The unknown is, can they sell their majority larger size flake? They need to be able to sell it before they can start another module so they can keep increasing production of desperately needed fines flake required for batteries or they'll go broke. If they can't sell it to build the next module, it will only exacerbate the deficit in fines flake making the situation worse.

There are 2 ways to sell graphite concentrate in 1t bags. By flake size or by bag mix. Example of a bag mix is -194 EXW or FOB China must contain at least 80% 100mesh min. If you sell it that way, it gives you a chance to fill it with up to 20% other flake sizes like medium or large to help get rid of it.

As you currently know, the larger the flake size the higher the price per tonne. Because of the above, some people believe the graphite flake price will invert like the lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide price did when LFP batteries became popular. Before then, hydroxide cost more. If the flake graphite price does invert and fines become say $1800/t like super jumbo is atm, it will push up the price TLG will get for their Talnode C.

I hope this all makes sense and shows how important SYR and TLG are in the big picture.

 

[Diogenese]

From 2025 there is going to be a massive deficit in natural graphite anode. The void will be filled by synthetic graphite. Mainly from China. By 2030, I think the graphite synthetic/natural split will be 70/30. If by some miracle sometime in the 2030's natural graphite AAM producers produce enough to surpass whatever the current demand growth is, they'll take market share from the synthetic producers not each other to get to a 50/50 split or higher.

Whenever you look at a chart showing a graphite deficit, take particular care to note if it's total graphite (synthetic and natural), natural graphite or battery grade fines flake graphite for anodes. There is a massive difference.

Less than 20% of mines coming online in the next 10 years will produce greater than 40% fine flake used for batteries. The Heilongjiang Province mines in China, SYR and TLG are the only mines I know of which can produce greater than 80% fines at scale (permit permitting). Therefore, there is going to be a massive surplus in large size flake unless hydrogen fuel cells take off which isn't factored into any charts. When a chart says total natural graphite flake will be in deficit, it's because the surplus in large size flake is dwarfed by the deficit in battery grade fines.

Also, when you read about other graphite mines coming into production, take note of their flake size ratios. Most going into production will do it by modular. For example they might have 4 modules, each module able to produce 40ktpa of concentrate and slowly build up to 160ktpa of concentrate at full production. The unknown is, can they sell their majority larger size flake? They need to be able to sell it before they can start another module so they can keep increasing production of desperately needed fines flake required for batteries or they'll go broke. If they can't sell it to build the next module, it will only exacerbate the deficit in fines flake making the situation worse.

There are 2 ways to sell graphite concentrate in 1t bags. By flake size or by bag mix. Example of a bag mix is -194 EXW or FOB China must contain at least 80% 100mesh min. If you sell it that way, it gives you a chance to fill it with up to 20% other flake sizes like medium or large to help get rid of it.

As you currently know, the larger the flake size the higher the price per tonne. Because of the above, some people believe the graphite flake price will invert like the lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide price did when LFP batteries became popular. Before then, hydroxide cost more. If the flake graphite price does invert and fines become say $1800/t like super jumbo is atm, it will push up the price TLG will get for their Talnode C.

I hope this all makes sense and shows how important SYR and TLG are in the big picture.

Hi Proga,

There is an Australian Company, Hazer, who have developed a process for producing "blue" hydrogen from hydrocarbons by passing them through an iron ore catalyst at about 1000C.

They claim that they capture the carbon in the form of graphite and their patent discusses controlling the graphite structure by controlling temperature and pressure, so they can have 5 bob each way. On paper, it sounds like genuine carbon capture.

They have licensed the technology in Canada.

This is the patent:

WO2018170543A1 SYSTEM FOR THE PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN AND GRAPHITIC CARBON

The number is a link to Espacenet, the EU patent website.

If it is as good as they say, I imagine it will be big in the middle east.

I'm hoping my BrainChip shares come good soon so I can get a decent parcel of HZR.

 

[manny100]

Bulls N'Bears radio 'gig' with MT recently was some good PR. Says we will make $US170 mill per year for 20 years.

 

[manny100]

Hi Proga,

There is an Australian Company, Hazer, who have developed a process for producing "blue" hydrogen from hydrocarbons by passing them through an iron ore catalyst at about 1000C.

They claim that they capture the carbon in the form of graphite and their patent discusses controlling the graphite structure by controlling temperature and pressure, so they can have 5 bob each way. On paper, it sounds like genuine carbon capture.

They have licensed the technology in Canada.

This is the patent:

WO2018170543A1 SYSTEM FOR THE PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN AND GRAPHITIC CARBON

The number is a link to Espacenet, the EU patent website.

If it is as good as they say, I imagine it will be big in the middle east.

I'm hoping my BrainChip shares come good soon so I can get a decent parcel of HZR.

Is this an alternative or intended replacement for the graphite Talga use to produce Anodes? Is it cheaper to produce via their process?
Could be many, many years away from being commercial?

 

[Diogenese]

Is this an alternative or intended replacement for the graphite Talga use to produce Anodes? Is it cheaper to produce via their process?
Could be many, many years away from being commercial?

It's a fairly simple process. The clever thing is using dirt cheap iron ore for the catalyst.

There is a pilot plant being built in Canada.

The graphite is a co-product with hydrogen so you get two for the price of one.

Given the predicted shortage of graphite, I doubt it will put Talga out of business in the short term.

 

[Monkeymandan]

It's a fairly simple process. The clever thing is using dirt cheap iron ore for the catalyst.

There is a pilot plant being built in Canada.

The graphite is a co-product with hydrogen so you get two for the price of one.

Given the predicted shortage of graphite, I doubt it will put Talga out of business in the short term.

That is quite a leap of the imagination - from lab scale testing, to putting Talga out of business long term.

 

[cosors]

This document is dated June 18, 2020 but I am seeing it for the first time and I suspect it was just uploaded now. Why I do not know. I found it for the first time under the search term "M 1573-20", our case number. It may also be that I have always overlooked it so far. At least I have not seen it yet. It affects the Sami community that lies south of the mine site across the river.

Do any of you know this document?

https://www.talgagroup.com/sv/news/m-1573-20-renna%CC%88ringsanalys-gabna-sameby/

I don't think it has any relevance to us or could be of interest to you now. It's just the analysis of how the Sami communities are affected. I assume that an excerpt of it ended up in the Golder Report for the application documents.

 

[cosors]

From 2025 there is going to be a massive deficit in natural graphite anode. The void will be filled by synthetic graphite. Mainly from China. By 2030, I think the graphite synthetic/natural split will be 70/30. If by some miracle sometime in the 2030's natural graphite AAM producers produce enough to surpass whatever the current demand growth is, they'll take market share from the synthetic producers not each other to get to a 50/50 split or higher.

Whenever you look at a chart showing a graphite deficit, take particular care to note if it's total graphite (synthetic and natural), natural graphite or battery grade fines flake graphite for anodes. There is a massive difference.

Less than 20% of mines coming online in the next 10 years will produce greater than 40% fine flake used for batteries. The Heilongjiang Province mines in China, SYR and TLG are the only mines I know of which can produce greater than 80% fines at scale (permit permitting). Therefore, there is going to be a massive surplus in large size flake unless hydrogen fuel cells take off which isn't factored into any charts. When a chart says total natural graphite flake will be in deficit, it's because the surplus in large size flake is dwarfed by the deficit in battery grade fines.

Also, when you read about other graphite mines coming into production, take note of their flake size ratios. Most going into production will do it by modular. For example they might have 4 modules, each module able to produce 40ktpa of concentrate and slowly build up to 160ktpa of concentrate at full production. The unknown is, can they sell their majority larger size flake? They need to be able to sell it before they can start another module so they can keep increasing production of desperately needed fines flake required for batteries or they'll go broke. If they can't sell it to build the next module, it will only exacerbate the deficit in fines flake making the situation worse.

There are 2 ways to sell graphite concentrate in 1t bags. By flake size or by bag mix. Example of a bag mix is -194 EXW or FOB China must contain at least 80% 100mesh min. If you sell it that way, it gives you a chance to fill it with up to 20% other flake sizes like medium or large to help get rid of it.

As you currently know, the larger the flake size the higher the price per tonne. Because of the above, some people believe the graphite flake price will invert like the lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide price did when LFP batteries became popular. Before then, hydroxide cost more. If the flake graphite price does invert and fines become say $1800/t like super jumbo is atm, it will push up the price TLG will get for their Talnode C.

I hope this all makes sense and shows how important SYR and TLG are in the big picture.

The two CEOs of Syrah Shaun Verner and Talga Mark Thompson are directly connected via Linkedin. I think they see themselves as friendly competitors to close the supply gap in the West.)


___________
It is also interesting that our quality control chemist is interested in the news from Verkor on Linkedin:

"Verkor will produce its first batteries in Isère​

Verkor, manufacturer of low carbon batteries, inaugurated this Thursday in the presence of three ministers its innovation center on the scientific peninsula of Grenoble. This 12,500 m² building notably houses the company's first production line.

The Verkor Innovation Center (VIC), was officially inaugurated on Thursday. The company is going to invest approximately €250 million in this equipment, which includes its headquarters, its R&D center, a training center and a production line.
..."
https://www.ledauphine.com/economie/2023/06/29/verkor-va-produire-ses-premieres-batteries-en-isere

(The only thing I can't do with is the connection to Camurus AB )

______

And MT likes this one:


ACC - Automotive Cells Company

This magnificent #battery pack you see here is one of our proudest achievements to date. 1m20 for 360 kilos of muscle, this "12 pack" (understand 12x modules, not 2x “6 pack”!) is the first battery pack designed using ACC’s battery modules. Currently undergoing homologation, it will soon be equipping electric vehicles of our customer and shareholder Stellantis. This battery pack is much more than a simple product development project. It's a company project. Indeed, to produce the modules that make up the pack, we had to carry out a number of tasks in parallel: recruit the teams, learn to work together efficiently, develop a product concept and a technological roadmap, build three factories, order, receive and parameter the machines, design and refine our production processes and quality standards, build and develop the customer relationship... all in a sometimes complicated economic and social context and in just 3 years. This first battery pack is concrete proof that the ACC project is moving forward, and moving fast! A proof that our project is turning from a chrysalis into a butterfly. So yes, we're proud of it, and we're even prouder of the people who helped bringing it to life. Thank you!

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/acc-...40381794304-BwLK?trk=public_profile_like_view


_______________
And because this was also about hydrogen: our product manager in Cambridge made contact with the German Sunfire GmbH:

"Established in 2010 and based in Dresden, Germany, Sunfire is a world-leading industrial electrolysis company with two differentiated technologies. We develop and manufacture electrolyzers based on SOEC and Alkaline technologies that enable a truly sustainable and cost-effective production of renewable hydrogen, syngas and e-Fuel. Sunfire has been named Global Cleantech 100 company for six consecutive years and is backed by leading strategic and financial investors such as Neste and SMS Group – global leaders in the renewable fuel and steel business. With more than 500 employees located in Germany and Switzerland and a well-established partner network, we realize large electrolysis projects to deliver on our promise: Creating a world without fossil fuels!"
https://de.linkedin.com/company/sunfire-gmbh?trk=public_profile_topcard-current-company

_______________
Strange what you find out of boredom

 

[Proga]

Hi Proga,

There is an Australian Company, Hazer, who have developed a process for producing "blue" hydrogen from hydrocarbons by passing them through an iron ore catalyst at about 1000C.

They claim that they capture the carbon in the form of graphite and their patent discusses controlling the graphite structure by controlling temperature and pressure, so they can have 5 bob each way. On paper, it sounds like genuine carbon capture.

They have licensed the technology in Canada.

This is the patent:

WO2018170543A1 SYSTEM FOR THE PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN AND GRAPHITIC CARBON

The number is a link to Espacenet, the EU patent website.

If it is as good as they say, I imagine it will be big in the middle east.

I'm hoping my BrainChip shares come good soon so I can get a decent parcel of HZR.

Sounds like an alternate source of synthetic graphite Dio, probably with similar properties. As a by-product it might be cheap but have less energy density than natural. Still early days though.

I'm the opposite. I'm hoping SYR shares come good soon so I can buy more BRN at these prices. According to Benchmark Minerals and Asia Metal graphite prices are down again last month including fines and spherical. I'm hoping they can calibrate their AAM plant at Vidalia quickly so they can start selling to Tesla and begin work on the 45ktpa expansion. They've applied for another DOE loan for the funding shortfall. Due to the IRA and the increasing geopolitical tensions the US is desperate. Wouldn't surprise if the DOE suggested they apply for another loan.

iniVaction looks promising. Cosors post blew me away. He's way above my league. lol when it comes to BRN you both are.

Watching the ashes. Marsh has gone berserk.

 

[Diogenese]

Sounds like an alternate source of synthetic graphite Dio, probably with similar properties. As a by-product it might be cheap but have less energy density than natural. Still early days though.

I'm the opposite. I'm hoping SYR shares come good soon so I can buy more BRN at these prices. According to Benchmark Minerals and Asia Metal graphite prices are down again last month including fines and spherical. I'm hoping they can calibrate their AAM plant at Vidalia quickly so they can start selling to Tesla and begin work on the 45ktpa expansion. They've applied for another DOE loan for the funding shortfall. Due to the IRA and the increasing geopolitical tensions the US is desperate. Wouldn't surprise if the DOE suggested they apply for another loan.

iniVaction looks promising. Cosors post blew me away. He's way above my league. lol when it comes to BRN you both are.

Watching the ashes. Marsh has gone berserk.

Chocolate salad and the cricket - when too much of a good thing is never enough.

 

[Proga]

The two CEOs of Syrah Shaun Verner and Talga Mark Thompson are directly connected via Linkedin. I think they see themselves as friendly competitors to close the supply gap in the West.)


___________
It is also interesting that our quality control chemist is interested in the news from Verkor on Linkedin:

"Verkor will produce its first batteries in Isère​

Verkor, manufacturer of low carbon batteries, inaugurated this Thursday in the presence of three ministers its innovation center on the scientific peninsula of Grenoble. This 12,500 m² building notably houses the company's first production line.
View attachment 39375
The Verkor Innovation Center (VIC), was officially inaugurated on Thursday. The company is going to invest approximately €250 million in this equipment, which includes its headquarters, its R&D center, a training center and a production line.
..."
https://www.ledauphine.com/economie/2023/06/29/verkor-va-produire-ses-premieres-batteries-en-isere

(The only thing I can't do with is the connection to Camurus AB )

______

And MT likes this one:


ACC - Automotive Cells Company

This magnificent #battery pack you see here is one of our proudest achievements to date. 1m20 for 360 kilos of muscle, this "12 pack" (understand 12x modules, not 2x “6 pack”!) is the first battery pack designed using ACC’s battery modules. Currently undergoing homologation, it will soon be equipping electric vehicles of our customer and shareholder Stellantis. This battery pack is much more than a simple product development project. It's a company project. Indeed, to produce the modules that make up the pack, we had to carry out a number of tasks in parallel: recruit the teams, learn to work together efficiently, develop a product concept and a technological roadmap, build three factories, order, receive and parameter the machines, design and refine our production processes and quality standards, build and develop the customer relationship... all in a sometimes complicated economic and social context and in just 3 years. This first battery pack is concrete proof that the ACC project is moving forward, and moving fast! A proof that our project is turning from a chrysalis into a butterfly. So yes, we're proud of it, and we're even prouder of the people who helped bringing it to life. Thank you!

View attachment 39376
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/acc-...40381794304-BwLK?trk=public_profile_like_view


_______________
And because this was also about hydrogen: our product manager in Cambridge made contact with the German Sunfire GmbH:

"Established in 2010 and based in Dresden, Germany, Sunfire is a world-leading industrial electrolysis company with two differentiated technologies. We develop and manufacture electrolyzers based on SOEC and Alkaline technologies that enable a truly sustainable and cost-effective production of renewable hydrogen, syngas and e-Fuel. Sunfire has been named Global Cleantech 100 company for six consecutive years and is backed by leading strategic and financial investors such as Neste and SMS Group – global leaders in the renewable fuel and steel business. With more than 500 employees located in Germany and Switzerland and a well-established partner network, we realize large electrolysis projects to deliver on our promise: Creating a world without fossil fuels!"
https://de.linkedin.com/company/sunfire-gmbh?trk=public_profile_topcard-current-company

_______________
Strange what you find out of boredom

I've been saying for years in both HC and then in here, there is a tsunami of demand coming down the pipeline. There is no competition. It's a collective race to meet demand which everybody is losing. Shaun and Mark both know.

I wrote this in SYR a month or so back

The diameter of spherical natural graphite used in lithium batteries for EV's is between 12 and 18 micron. The process in making the spherical graphite is to mill natural flake graphite down to between ~60-70 microns then fold the flake inwards into a spherical shape.

Fine Flake - 75-150 microns - cost $800/t
Medium Flake - 150-180 microns - cost $1100/t
Large Flake - 180-300 microns - cost $1500/t
Jumbo Flake - 300-500 microns - cost +$1800/t

To make 1t of spherical graphite using the average flake size (I meant using the mid point of each flake size), the upper size of 70 microns to mill it down to and 95% concentrate you need:

1/ 1.68t of Fine flake
2/ 2.5t of Medium flake
3/ 3.6t of Large flake
4/ 6t of Jumbo flake

Then add in the cost, time and size of the mill required to grind the larger flake sizes down to 70 microns. Then the cost of dealing with the waste and what to do with it.

I hear TLG's fine flake is below the average/mid range point . If true, TLG will require less than 1.68t of concentrate to produce 1t of spherical.

 

[cosors]

I've been saying for years in both HC and then in here, there is a tsunami of demand coming down the pipeline. There is no competition. It's a collective race to meet demand which everybody is losing. Shaun and Mark both know.

I wrote this in SYR a month or so back

The diameter of spherical natural graphite used in lithium batteries for EV's is between 12 and 18 micron. The process in making the spherical graphite is to mill natural flake graphite down to between ~60-70 microns then fold the flake inwards into a spherical shape.

Fine Flake - 75-150 microns - cost $800/t
Medium Flake - 150-180 microns - cost $1100/t
Large Flake - 180-300 microns - cost $1500/t
Jumbo Flake - 300-500 microns - cost +$1800/t

To make 1t of spherical graphite using the average flake size (I meant using the mid point of each flake size), the upper size of 70 microns to mill it down to and 95% concentrate you need:

1/ 1.68t of Fine flake
2/ 2.5t of Medium flake
3/ 3.6t of Large flake
4/ 6t of Jumbo flake

Then add in the cost, time and size of the mill required to grind the larger flake sizes down to 70 microns. Then the cost of dealing with the waste and what to do with it.

I hear TLG's fine flake is below the average/mid range point . If true, TLG will require less than 1.68t of concentrate to produce 1t of spherical.

I just found it unusual that two CEOs and competitors are connected on LinkedIn. Otherwise, I only know of WBT and their CEO and WBT and their CTO and the two are only theoretically competitors at some point in the future. Otherwise, CEOs often seem to me to be quite economical with their links to other CEOs to competitors on LinkedIn. But I could be wrong.

And I've never dealt with the mesh size. That's where you're our pro. I only deal with the cabbage work in the local field. In DFS, that's all I could find in a hurry:

"Vittangi predominantly consists of highly crystalline flake graphite that is naturally less than 15 microns, approximately the size of graphite commonly used in Li-ion battery anodes."

Very very naive question: isn't that already much too small for spheronizing (?) then? Sorry but I'm really stupid when it comes to this topic.

 

[Diogenese]

Sounds like an alternate source of synthetic graphite Dio, probably with similar properties. As a by-product it might be cheap but have less energy density than natural. Still early days though.

I'm the opposite. I'm hoping SYR shares come good soon so I can buy more BRN at these prices. According to Benchmark Minerals and Asia Metal graphite prices are down again last month including fines and spherical. I'm hoping they can calibrate their AAM plant at Vidalia quickly so they can start selling to Tesla and begin work on the 45ktpa expansion. They've applied for another DOE loan for the funding shortfall. Due to the IRA and the increasing geopolitical tensions the US is desperate. Wouldn't surprise if the DOE suggested they apply for another loan.

iniVaction looks promising. Cosors post blew me away. He's way above my league. lol when it comes to BRN you both are.

Watching the ashes. Marsh has gone berserk.

Yes. They can control the properties of the graphite, and even produce graphene.

We all have different investing strategies. I sold Lynas and CXO to buy BRN, and they have both taken off after I sold, but I'm still confident.

 

[Semmel]

I just found it unusual that two CEOs and competitors are connected on LinkedIn. Otherwise, I only know of WBT and their CEO and WBT and their CTO and the two are only theoretically competitors at some point in the future. Otherwise, CEOs often seem to me to be quite economical with their links to other CEOs to competitors on LinkedIn. But I could be wrong.

And I've never dealt with the mesh size. That's where you're our pro. I only deal with the cabbage work in the local field. In DFS, that's all I could find in a hurry:

"Vittangi predominantly consists of highly crystalline flake graphite that is naturally less than 15 microns, approximately the size of graphite commonly used in Li-ion battery anodes."

Very very naive question: isn't that already much too small for spheronizing (?) then? Sorry but I'm really stupid when it comes to this topic.

From my understanding, Talga only needs to filter the fine flake they have and use the rest to make graphene. So talgas process does not involve milling it down. Spherical graphite is then coated with graphite black (a powder of much smaller sizes) to make it more conductive when it touches other particles. I am not sure if they actually use graphite black or if they use their own product made from graphene for Talnode-C. I think at this stage, they dont use graphene for Talnode-C.

 

[cosors]

From my understanding, Talga only needs to filter the fine flake they have and use the rest to make graphene. So talgas process does not involve milling it down. Spherical graphite is then coated with graphite black (a powder of much smaller sizes) to make it more conductive when it touches other particles. I am not sure if they actually use graphite black or if they use their own product made from graphene for Talnode-C. I think at this stage, they dont use graphene for Talnode-C.

So is our 15micorn graphite spherical and does not need to be compressed or rounded as Proga describes of I'm understand him correctly?

 

[Semmel]

So is our 15micorn graphite spherical and does not need to be compressed or rounded as Proga describes of I'm understand him correctly?

Yes, at least that's my understanding. That's why our ressource is so special. But the graphite still comes in chunks that have to be broken up and liberated. But yeah that's the essence of it.

 

[Proga]

Yes, at least that's my understanding. That's why our ressource is so special. But the graphite still comes in chunks that have to be broken up and liberated. But yeah that's the essence of it.

The graphite "flake" still needs to be folded/compressed/shaped spherically. When mined it isn't spherical or all in the exact same flake size required. The average fines flake size of TLG's deposit maybe closer to the size you want making it special as you call it reducing waste but some milling will be required. Thinking you can dig it out of the ground, liberate, purify, coat it then put it in an anode is nonsense.

Calibrating the plant to mill and spherise the flake to 99.95% purity is the hardest part in the process.

 

[Proga]

I just found it unusual that two CEOs and competitors are connected on LinkedIn. Otherwise, I only know of WBT and their CEO and WBT and their CTO and the two are only theoretically competitors at some point in the future. Otherwise, CEOs often seem to me to be quite economical with their links to other CEOs to competitors on LinkedIn. But I could be wrong.

And I've never dealt with the mesh size. That's where you're our pro. I only deal with the cabbage work in the local field. In DFS, that's all I could find in a hurry:

"Vittangi predominantly consists of highly crystalline flake graphite that is naturally less than 15 microns, approximately the size of graphite commonly used in Li-ion battery anodes."

Very very naive question: isn't that already much too small for spheronizing (?) then? Sorry but I'm really stupid when it comes to this topic.

"Vittangi predominantly consists of highly crystalline flake graphite that is naturally less than 15 microns, approximately the size of graphite commonly used in Li-ion battery anodes."

Anything under 75 microns is called powder not flake. Mark made the comment in 2016 and hasn't since. Lets be kind and just say Mark was talking about turning the powder from the mine not the flake into AAM but the technology never eventuated. See below

"And I've never dealt with the mesh size"

Mesh size is how they sort the flake when concentrating the flake graphite at the mine into the various sizes. Mesh size refers to the number of holes. The less holes the larger the size of the holes.

30 Mesh = Super Jumbo
50 Mesh = Jumbo
80 Mesh = large
100 Mesh = Medium
What's left is fines and powder

The reason why they turn the flake into spherical graphite and coat it is to stop the lithium ions destroying the graphite when charging causing degradation. The ions chip off any edges. This in turn lowers the amount of charge the battery can hold. The TLG picture on the below left shows all sorts of different flake sizes which would completely degradate within 10 charging cycles

Marks comments in 2016 was accompanied by Figure 1

 

[Semmel]

@Proga, thx for the explanation! Learning stuff here

Yes, I can also remember a step change from talgas process at some point from the exfoliating approach. That stopped being a thing at some point and they startet using more traditional methods.

What do you mean by 'folding in on it self '? How can you fold graphite particle in?