TLG Ann: Talga Investor Webinar Recording - 17th Feb 2023, 1:55pm

[annb0t]

TLG Ann: Talga Investor Webinar Recording
Price Sensitive: N
Date: 17th Feb 2023, 1:55pm

>>> Read announcement: Google: TLG Market Announcements

 

[Semmel]

I was finally able to watch the presentation part of the seminar. Will need to listen with more time again to bullet point the main points. But let me address a couple of points directly.

1: Talga team, THANK YOU for setting that regular webinar up. Mark said it in the beginning that you try to do it every quarter. I very much want to encourage you to do just that. As a retail investor, this is a very valuable communication channel. Both giving us new information but also the opportunity to ask questions. This is very much appreciated. Thank you for your time!

2: maybe the most important point of the content (at least in my opinion) is the way Mark talked about revising the plans for Niska. Its necessarily still very vague at this point but very important development. The Benchmark Materials forecast is still way way too low for the actual demand. I mean, if the supply is not there, this will ultimately curb demand. But if anode supply would not restrict the battery industry development, the curve was likely way, way higher. We will have a demand way in access of what was shown. Expanding the extraction plans is the correct move.

3: I love the development of Talnode-Si. If it has all the correct performance characteristics, i.e. capacity, charging speed, longevity, thermal stability as the most important ones, its going to be a great product. So far we heard mostly about capacity, but the other aspects are just as important as there is no battery if any one of them doesnt fit the bill. So cool development but I remain cautious until we see more tests that show the other aspects are green too.

 

[cosors]

This is just an experiment. Of course most of the proper names are wrong and there are many uhs and ums but as far as I hear google is doing quite ~well/ok with the transcript. Who wants to know exactly:



00:00 welcome everyone to everyone to the February 2023 Target group quarterly
00:05 investor webinar today we'll hear a presentation from talga's managing director Mark Thompson about the group's
00:11 recent updates following Mark's presentation there will be a q a thank
00:17 you to everyone who submitted a question ahead of time you can also submit a question during the presentation through
00:23 the Q a function on Zoom we've received quite a few questions so if we don't get
00:29 to the question that you've submitted feel free to get in contact with us after the webinar at info towergroup.com
00:37 I now welcome Mark Thompson managing director of talga group Mark over to you
00:43 I'll just ask you to unmute
00:50 hello everyone thanks Alex thanks everyone for joining us pleasure to be here uh not so freshly
00:58 jet lagged back from uh a month on and off in Europe uh for those of you uh
01:04 wondering what this I guess the format is that all is each quarter we're trying to do a webinar where we can just
01:10 summarize the company fairly quickly but it's really a forum to answer shareholder questions so please if you
01:17 haven't already log them into the email you can log them live now I believe and
01:23 Alex will collate those and read them out and in response to previous criticisms of timing I won't try and uh
01:30 preempt things too much in the presentation we obviously can't put in much new new
01:35 things in things like presentations that aren't already ASX disclosed but we will want to provide lots of time for for
01:43 speaking to your questions afterwards
01:48 but see if this works okay so for those of you that are new to
01:54 telger because we do have uh just under 12 000 shareholders but many of you have been with us for a long time and uh but
02:01 those that are new uh we make battery and Advanced Materials we have our own
02:07 graphite resources in Sweden probably we're a bit distinguished because we are
02:12 making the final products that are being sold to manufacturers of batteries um so it's a mind to
02:19 anode online to to customer model which is quite rare actually in the advanced
02:25 chemical industry with battery materials it would be the equivalent of a lithium minor Babs making a natural
02:32 um you know cathode material so it's not it's not normally done but in this way we capture all the margins we own our
02:39 own coating and and production and process technology so we have adapted things from different Industries food
02:45 Pharmaceuticals as well as the highest quality battery production materials around the world and we have transferred
02:53 those now to to Europe and we have very unique graphite sources themselves very small battery size
03:00 flakes more akin to being a an anode mine rather than a an industrial mine
03:06 and we have we're on 100 sustainable power so we produce very green products
03:13 from our high grade mine and with the special low quality uh sorry low cost
03:19 and low CO2 emission power sources and in the right here behind our Eva plant
03:24 in in lulio in Sweden you can see uh what is the start of the green Steels
03:33 um the these low CO2 shift from steel production over to hydrogen so it's a hub for green energy and production of
03:41 cleaner materials and of course we are in Europe we're not based in Australia or Africa or North America or somewhere
03:47 but in our case we have direct Road or rail directly to our customers
03:54 um we the corporate officers in Perth we have 60 staff now mostly in Europe uh up
04:00 up in kirana is the mining resource area uh lulia is the refinery area
04:06 um in Cambridge UK we've just announced our new uh Battery Center of Excellence there which is a an expansion
04:13 substantial expansion of our product technology uh capability and
04:19 center and in Rudolph stat Germany uh near effort in central Germany it's about halfway between Frankfurt and
04:25 Dresden it's um that's our where we've been pilot scale and developing our process Technologies metallurgical
04:31 capabilities and around those we obviously have got um other Partnerships with with groups to
04:39 toll trade things that we're not doing ourselves we've just opened naturally an office in Stockholm for corporate growth
04:46 uh there in in Sweden and part of just maturing of the company and in Japan our
04:51 chief scientist and Technology officer recently he's um was living in Japan and
04:57 we have done a lot of scale up and development of our Technologies on the
05:03 processing side in Japan before bringing them over and of course Japan is the home of the original
05:08 a lot of original lithium and Technology uh work that was done particularly on
05:13 the scale up a mission as ever has a purpose it is uh
05:20 both uh both corporate for shareholders but also to enable more sustainable
05:26 products in the world that use graphic carbon materials so in the past this was
05:31 graphene we still make graphene and have a whole range of graphene products but
05:36 we are also now developing projects specifically for battery materials the flow sheet looks a bit like this
05:43 this is just a rough summary of what talgar as a company does on the left hand side starting from graphite input
05:50 or carbon input we have our mind our special all bodies not just one but several in Sweden and we also now have
05:57 the potential to use recycled materials coming into our processing stream where we have process technology across both
06:04 of those areas and then that hits the what we call the refining stage this is more of the deep Downstream so
06:10 purification shaping uh scene and then you get into what we call
06:16 talga products where we've got brand names telnode is the you know battery anode obviously to to me and tell fan
06:23 which are more graphene related um products and and there's a quite a bit of overlap actually sometimes in in
06:29 the the morphology of those products um there's also some overlapping that
06:35 byproducts of Tel node anode production for Batteries can be used in other it
06:41 can be used in the production of graphene type materials and likewise some of the graphene materials can be
06:47 used up into to help out with the battery materials so in the past we were looking at mostly the Coatings
06:53 Composites and construction markets for graphene they're still all alive and being worked on but predominantly the
06:59 fast growth and the rapid commercialization and the underwriting of the financing of the project is all based around uh battery materials
07:06 predominantly Town I'd see but growingly silicon which I'll talk about later and conductive additives which are
07:12 essentially people man I realize but up to about three percent of battery electrode materials are carbon black and
07:21 carbon nanotubes these are sprinkled in to add conductivity properties into into
07:26 electrodes and change their conductivity obviously or the inverse which is a
07:31 resistivity uh so yeah it's an interesting very established Market there
07:37 and our industry continues to grow you can see 2022 where we are the Outlook
07:42 foreign growth is massive you're used to seeing a lot of hockey stick type shapes
07:47 for battery materials but yeah I would say that the graphite's only just
07:52 starting to be recognized for what it is EV sales are now kicking in harder
07:58 battery cell demand is kicking in harder there's been a lot of flexibility with different sources of graphite both
08:04 synthetically or artificial and natural have been able to get scooped up and now
08:10 you're seeing places like China become a net importer for the first time of natural graphite the preferred size for
08:17 making anodes is quite small anode particles for batteries are actually very small they range from five six
08:23 Micron up to just under 20 Micron but the trend is towards the smaller sizes for faster charge kinetics and things
08:31 like that so um around 10 Micron or lesser is a premium sort of uh products
08:37 um and certainly there's a big deficit so you can look for Benchmark look for
08:43 remote and look for fast markets data you know they tend to cover a lot of that technical side of the industry but
08:49 there's a huge shortfall expected including in Europe where uh the planned
08:54 battery capacity now exceeds one terawatt uh hour per annum uh within the
09:00 next seven years it reaches that point which will require over 1.3 million tons of anode per annum uh of graphite Nano
09:08 per annum and that is in contrast to our stage one project which makes only uh
09:15 just under 20 000 tons per year and an expanded niska project does a hundred
09:20 thousand tons per year so even following our five times expansion of our stage one project we would be less than 10 of
09:27 European demand alone and of course this isn't allowing for other growth markets
09:32 like North America and indeed back into other parts of should we say Eastern Europe and
09:39 um and back into Asia so anyway lots of companies sitting up there so the important thing is that Europe has got a
09:45 lot of growth plan factories and existing factories that are now cranking up there so the growth is all in front
09:51 of us uh our main product telnode C which is qualifying with numerous companies now
09:58 um it's quite deep into qualifying it's an RB and with some groups even a c stage um is characterized compared to other
10:06 materials has been quite energy dense it's got quite high capacity works really well at lower temperatures in
10:12 particular uh it's got very low resistance so yeah it works really well as a blend with synthetic VVS or can be
10:19 used 100 for some EVS but also other markets as well like ESS stationary storage or the three What's
10:26 called the 3C Market which is quite exciting in itself because it's things that have also got interesting growth
10:31 trajectories and like power tools yeah things like carpet cleaning robots
10:37 and vacuum cleaners and drills and all sorts of devices more more and more
10:42 things are getting electrified every day and drones all sorts of drones so different sizes underwater drones as
10:49 well as aerial drone so there's just a vast range of electrification going on and the interesting thing about those
10:56 non-auto markets is they tend to be smaller they struggle to get access to supply and so the pricing's often a lot
11:02 better and there's another shortage of demand for both EVs and all across the
11:08 other segments as well so anode slash battery material companies like ourselves can sort of pick and choose
11:15 where your um you know strategically best place to be uh I'll take so we're we're progressing
11:22 obviously uh off takes that will underwrite our financing where we've got you know a targeted debt ratios on
11:29 building the project it's a 480 500 million dollar US project to build both the anode Refinery production and the
11:36 mine itself and the concentrator we have announced publicly uh with ACC was
11:43 October last year and we thought both based on both companies agreed that by the end of November we've been positioned to sign off on that it's
11:49 taken a bit longer than we thought Automotive uh is notorious for both wanting all sorts of commitments but
11:56 also changing chopping and changing a little bit uh but anyway we're still active the status of that is still
12:04 active when there's a change to that we will tell you but obviously we're working very hard to continue working
12:10 with ACC to get that online ACC of course is a co-owned company by
12:16 Mercedes-Benz delantis and soft soft is total energy and they've got previous battery
12:22 production facilities in um in France and in other parts of Europe stalantis is a whole bunch of
12:28 Global Automotive Brands including Maserati Fiat Chrysler
12:35 um I'll hit Jeep in North America predominantly but also globally so a whole bunch of different brands there
12:41 are Mercedes and so when you qualify material into the off text we're trying to do which have got uh very specific
12:47 terms they're not like raw material off tanks where you just promise to deliver something in future to a spec and anyone
12:54 can sign it up and it's subject to Future qualifying we're actually qualifying the materials and so we're
12:59 getting close to a more serious sort of agreement and I apologize it's taking longer than uh neither company we're
13:05 expecting but the details of this uh yeah it's a big contract and so it's worth spending time on
13:11 um for both both of our uh sakes but it's specific to um a project which will be like a model
13:17 so yeah it's quite Advanced and likewise with vercor we're pleased to work with them we'll be able to provide more
13:24 details when we finish executing the binding terms of that are finished negotiating but um they they're a big
13:30 supplier to Renault and yeah so it's it fits with tell this potential to fund the project
13:36 you're in European uh European Union type banking sitting within the European
13:42 uh Union countries like Sweden and having European uh car companies and
13:48 Battery makers who are tied into this entire network of green deal that's
13:54 happening in Europe we've built the first coated anode plant already which is operating in in Europe
14:00 and I'm not sure if there's many doing it at all if in in North America at this stage where you're not only
14:08 purifying material but doing the coating and everything with in-house technology so just to be clear this is what would
14:14 be called cspg by other people's nomenclature in the industry it's usually raw graphite if it's shaped and
14:20 purified that's still called graphite once it's coated it's just called anode we have our own in-house way of we did
14:27 quality control with battery Laboratories there we're also certified we get audited by our customers
14:32 Automotive companies have been coming up and sell makers for uh a while now to
14:37 Sweden and looking at both the minor operation when it was going and also the trial mine but also the
14:44 the Eva plant that's really exciting that they get to see it and get to see our other facilities as well in
14:49 Cambridge and also Germany and understand that we're quite well prepared for transitioning to commercial
14:56 scale production and continuing to wrap that up uh we hope to be in position to
15:02 start construction on the groundworks of this later on this year
15:07 we'll have some more details about that soon so the idea is to be in commercial production uh
15:14 of of the full scale plant which is lies about a kilometer away from here um later on in 24.
15:23 well sometimes people ask about the qualification process this ABCD process the automotive
15:31 the difference between anodes and things like lithium and Cafe materials is that they're all chemical based on metal so
15:37 as long as you produce something to a speck metal then people will buy it off you the difference the downloads of why
15:42 it takes longer than people think is the anode is has to be tried because it's
15:47 not just about purity it's also about the internal crystallinity and it's also about the way the shape of the product
15:52 works so they have to physically test it and if you test it from a lab you then need a bigger sample coming from a pilot
15:59 plant when you finish that they say well that's okay we now need to see it coming from a continuous you know semi-automated flow and then we need
16:07 tons of that material and then we need you know 50 tons or 100 tons coming from your first actual production so it's a
16:13 bit it's a bit casual 22 or cart before the horse but where they actually to finalize qualification they need you to
16:20 have already invested have been producing quite large scale samples so that's why it's very hard for people to
16:25 get into the anode production business but if you do crack it obviously the margins are there on the scale for you to grow and be one of the few companies
16:33 outside of Asia to be able to make you know it's it's quite a big opportunity and that's what targets strategically
16:39 designing for so they either we can do A's from laboratory but the B and C sample come from from the Eva plant this
16:46 is if you don't have something like this of this scale you're not actually going to get to the point of a serious off
16:52 take with a serious injuries or a customer where you're capturing that entire thing you'll be
16:58 using intermediaries instead and they'll be qualifying the material themselves and you'll be getting a more of a raw
17:04 material price silicon we've mentioned lately because it's sort of grown quite quickly so you
17:11 need silicon if well you don't need there's an interest in Silicon uh we
17:17 have been developing silicon anode products for several years now we're in our Gen 2 version uh it contains about
17:23 50 silicon the rest is graphite and graphene which is what helps make the
17:29 cope with the swelling of silicon when it gets charged and discharge it tends to swell and crack and so it's not
17:36 easily usable in batteries so our approach has been one a very practical
17:41 one uh where we can scale things up we've been on the right hand side of the top right here you can see uh just a
17:48 small little fraction of of our pilot plant which we're now extending some of
17:53 the tech we're using obviously we can't show the nice stainless steel groovy bits of kit for commercial reasons but
18:01 it's expanding really well and I've just been in Germany recently timely has done a fantastic job uh commissioning is well
18:07 underway we'll have a lot more to say about that why we would take on the ambition of an added project instead of
18:14 just what we do in Sweden is because obviously we've had very positive outcomes of negotiations of customers
18:20 that have been testing the material and there's there's some targets for commercializing of this material so
18:27 we're looking at sites where we want to build a Refinery to basically start
18:33 producing commercial quantities of town node SI um which the beauty of this is it
18:39 actually is byproducts of our Swedish anode making for download C and you can use those byproducts take them down to
18:44 Germany smash them up and build this much more complex silicon particle which has got a much higher price point but
18:50 has got a certain demand in the market what is that demand well look we know
18:55 silicon silicon's like an energy booster in the I guess going back a long time in combustion engines people would always
19:02 be trying to put a little pill in the tank to boost things up in in Lithium-ion technology at silicon you
19:09 dope a little bit of silicon into the graphite and you can boost its energy you get most of the energy boost from
19:15 small amounts they put in at the beginning and after a while that sort of tops out so we would provide a product that's a
19:22 50 silicon contained particle our customers would then sprinkle that and mix it into
19:27 their graphite to dilute it down to what balance they want what sort of energy density they want
19:34 um yeah so our primary particle does about 1 800 milliamp hours per gram of energy uh density uh which is about five
19:43 times higher than graphite alone but the customers don't need it that high and it has other repercussions around
19:50 longevity so you want to sort of balance that up and put in as much as you need
19:55 to boost performance while retaining the length of cycle life and other things you need

 

[cosors]

20:01 in conjunction with our forecasters and Industry participants we
20:07 expect about five percent of the anode Market will contain silicon or by volume
20:13 uh over the next couple of years it can go into different battery chemistries but the 4680 and NCM 811s are a pretty
20:22 good spot for it uh if you know what I mean and in fact it's quite interesting that in the Biden's the USA inflation
20:30 reduction Act that that they've actually put aside money specifically for Silica Nano
20:36 production uh support and subsidies in North America and Europe we're expecting to
20:42 [Music] um well Europe has scope for also supporting silicon anode uh projects uh
20:50 through what are called the ippses the projects of common economic interest and other grants so yeah I think it's going
20:56 to be a growing space we invested early in it to be an adjunct it makes our
21:01 graphite production more efficient to use any byproducts in the Silicon product we have scientists that
21:07 specialize in Silicon and we we know you know the feasibility of it obviously we've been working on for a while both
21:12 in the UK and now transferring that into the German space and it's looking good in lots of ways we'll just have more to
21:19 talk about it once we close um some deals out and recycling seems to surprise a few
21:26 people recently we've actually had this reload study uh public on using
21:32 um is spent Lithium-ion batteries so not as you can see here on the left this is an unused anode so this is uh trim
21:39 trimming waste from the battery cell making process that material is quite pure and taking that and turning it back
21:46 into battery materials is possible but once a battery has been used and intercalated with lithium you get all
21:51 these compounds forming deep within it most people that are recycling batteries produce this black mass of which
21:57 graphite is one part when you take that graph out graphite out it's full of sulfurous compounds and hot carbonates
22:03 and all sorts of frankly horrible nasty things that currently no one is showing a commercial way of how to use it we are
22:10 studying and working on taking that material uh putting it through some of
22:15 our graphene processing type technology and seeing if we can use that in
22:21 materials and the the reason why that can work for us versus others and look I'm sure some Others May Crack this
22:26 eventually but there are good reasons for suggesting that it may never be cracked for
22:32 large-scale battery recycling because to the material you put into a battery
22:38 the graphics has to be extremely pure and work to a very very high efficiency and to recycle things back into it by
22:45 the the time you put all the chemical or thermal energy in to do that to clean it up you've probably emitted more CO2 than
22:52 what you're saving by doing the recycling if you know what I mean so you'd be better off getting our material from Sweden and just using
22:58 that straight up and that would be kinder to the environment than than the recycling but there will be a lot of volume from recycling so it's something
23:04 we it's incumbent on us all to be responsible for for researching and working on if we can use it but I think
23:10 using it for other things like Silicon for example is is interesting because a
23:16 normal lithium battery the graphite's doing the job of interculating the electrons it holds like a sponge it
23:21 holds all the the energy and then releases it but when you get into other battery materials like silicone you can
23:27 use the graphite it doesn't have to Lithia it doesn't have to hold energy it can be a structural framework so there
23:34 are there are ways that we could be able to use recycled material for for battery materials but they're not standard
23:40 lithiation type graphite purposes so yeah it's it's part of our technology to be able to work on that and I'm excited
23:46 about that I think it's it suits Europe it suits ours as a company um it can suit economics obviously if it
23:52 works out okay so there's a lot of benefits to it and our partners will of course are excited by that as well does
23:58 it ever catch up with the volumes of graphite required for the market no no
24:03:00 it probably never catches up because the a decades away from having enough volume
24:08:00 of batteries to to read steady state I guess in the world so literally decades away and before then you need tens of
24:15:00 millions of tons of graphite anode and the second point is as I said there'll be losses and there'll also be a lot of
24:21:00 material that can't be used so you'll never ever catch up with the overall volume but you should be trying to use what you what you can so it's a good
24:27:00 good part of what we're doing regarding the permits uh for the mine the environmental hearing is uh nearing
24:35:00 to a close I was up there for the first few days uh since then the team's doing a great job
24:41:00 um I managed to catch up with most people around the uh the court process that needed to be caught up with
24:48:00 and yeah it's been really great to reach this stage after so many years um so we're expecting that to conclude
24:54:00 in uh just over a week and they will give us then a date of when they expect
25:00:00 to publish the decision um which is commonly six to eight weeks you know later but we just don't know
25:06:00 what date they're going to give us so in that time they're going to be actually writing up their decision and writing up
25:12:00 the conditions they want as part of whatever decision they're making obviously conditions if it's positive
25:17:00 and if it's not positive I guess they don't need to we also having some pretty good advancements on the building permit
25:24:00 for the lulio site we put those in last year this is for the refinery and that building permit is maturing and that
25:31:00 would enable us to uh we're awaiting various developments of that to enable
25:36:00 us to maybe start construction of their node Refinery later on this year and of course we have already applications in
25:42:00 to expand the existing mine environmental plan nature 2000 and
25:50:00 the exploitation payment they'll all sort of be triggered together by the environmental hearing that is just for
25:55:00 nonsoir South the niska stuff is down the track and because of our customer demands we have to look at um uh looking
26:01:00 at you know what whether that's still the appropriate size or not or whether it needs to be larger but look things are are all coming together so the
26:08:00 permitting for the mine and refineries all coming together um and we've got reasonably confident
26:14:00 that things will go well our team has done a fantastic job on putting up a strong case ultimately it's up to the
26:21:00 authorities to decide uh but you know it's we've we've certainly
26:26:00 um put up what looks to be a strong strong case in a project that is a good idea for Europe I would say
26:33:00 and that's helped to track funding uh we've had some appraisal already from
26:38:00 the European Investment Bank for up to 300 million euros plus a whole collection as you can see on the right
26:44:00 of uh different commercial Banks export Credit Agencies Swedish Nordic and uh
26:51:00 Swiss and more remote uh Banks and institutions coming together to do
26:56:00 diligence on the project it's a quite an advanced stage right now to be honest and a lot of these groups are funding
27:01:00 some of our customers as well so they're they're quite knowledgeable about what's going on and yeah we're targeting a sort
27:08:00 of debt gearing um so our finance strategy is to have a majority of debt now two or three years
27:16:00 ago you couldn't probably do that you probably had to sell equity in the project down but now the environment's
27:22:00 matured to the point where we can probably have a decent level of debt and then that will leave a gap of equity to
27:28:00 be done not just equity in the headco there's some different formats that we
27:33:00 can pursue which is I'll talk about in a little bit as well but anyway that's maturing independent
27:39:00 reports on the technical side of the project and the market and so many
27:45:00 things around the um around the finance has been very capably uh run by Melissa our CFO and
27:53:00 also with burn via our our advisors in that area doing a great job
27:59:00 on the environmental side we've been doing that the team also just got a
28:04:00 fantastic group of people up there Liz up in uh karener and the rest of the team uh in
28:12:00 in lulio have been having a lot of dialogues we publish things regularly over there we've got obviously Swedish
28:18:00 language website we interact as much as we can including with the reindeer herding cooperatives and there's lots of
28:25:00 dialogues that are open in that area at the moment and of course the huge amounts of permits you need to operate
28:30:00 sustainably in in Europe both because it's the right thing to do and because our customers demand it as the Europe
28:38:00 the other day actually basically outlawed internal combustion engines from 2035 being built in Europe there's
28:45:00 a that they've got goals towards net zero individually under the Paris agreement but also the uh most companies realize
28:53:00 that their current Imports of existing anode materials are got really high CO2 and quite dirty especially by the time
28:59:00 they're delivered including shipping so uh yeah we provide a very clean uh
29:04:00 version of that and we've been audited we've had some extremely large companies come up to site to audit uh our claims
29:10:00 about our CO2 emissions being very low and being World leading and looking at the power supply being 100 sustainable
29:17:00 hydro which it is and uh we've been given a lot of support or ticks from you
29:23:00 know the work we've done so far so it's credit to all of our team and then that feeds into Europe's time
29:29:00 is arising where they are going to not just respond to the inflation reduction act in the USA but they already had an
29:37:00 existing green deal um they already had a huge amount I think about 250 billion euros set aside for uh
29:46:00 sort of technology and electrification of Europe they're about to publish the critical raw materials act in the next
29:53:00 few weeks we've been doing some lobbying and representations in Brussels and tried to
29:59:00 educate the legislators as much as possible not just about our company which I think we've raised our profile
30:06:00 quite well we get a we're quite well recognized now I'd say across the European legislative network but also to
30:13:00 teach them about graphite recycling how it works whether the existing markets
30:18:00 the Technologies the processes the safety uh the transport the handling all these sorts of things graphite
30:25:00 particularly natural graphite has been highlighted in in recent Times by uh
30:31:00 head of the commission and of course uh uh the the president has talked about
30:38:00 the Net Zero industry act which is also coming out so what you've got is a big framework called the green deal and
30:44:00 within that they're Now setting up individual acts and legislations to enable access to funding shortening
30:51:00 permit times [Music] specifying recyclability all these sorts
30:57:00 of things will will come into effect and yeah it's going to be very very exciting for us to see what impacts of those will
31:05:00 be will be positive there could be some negative ones but we're excited about the opportunities for funding of our
31:11:00 future growth being available through some of these streams uh we're also excited about it how it will change the
31:18:00 or possibly accelerate the uptake by local battery manufacturers of local materials of which we are you know the
31:24:00 largest supply of natural graphite in Europe so the way this all interacts is going to be very good here on the right
31:30:00 you can see ever bush is the minister for energy but also the Deputy Prime Minister of Sweden visiting our booth
31:37:00 we're one of a few companies invited to be present when the EU met up in Sweden
31:43:00 recently which is near our vitanya project and in fact the entire European and leaders all came up and Sweden is
31:49:00 taking its turn to essentially run the EU commission uh for the next year so
31:55:00 that's all come together really nicely and we've had really great response from from them learning about the project and
32:01:00 our material so just coming to an end now on our partnership still existing across a
32:08:00 network of all sorts of companies that are that you know probably there's some changes as we
32:15:00 mature and as the financing regime for the project matures as the the products and the commercialization all matures
32:22:00 you know the where the focus is on things continues to um to shift positively forward uh but
32:28:00 yeah we've got essentially a history of working with top-tier companies um and and integrating with them about
32:35:00 what they want so what's coming up the decision on the Mind permit obviously is a big thing that people
32:40:00 want to know about secondly tying in with that then is triggering uh the the
32:45:00 conclusion of project financing and the potential commencement of construction later on this year of
32:52:00 starting a Refinery and probably the mine after that assuming all goes well subject to permanent subject subject
32:58:00 commercial agreements continuing uh we continue to have more customers than we
33:04:00 can possibly handle but getting deeper and deeper into the details of their ramp ups and model qualifications and
33:10:00 what's happening with the material so the validation you know I'd say over last year one of the most significant things has been the validation of our
33:17:00 material by so many customers and now you know the Deep plans of integrating our material into their supply chains
33:23:00 coming up so essentially you won't see nothing yet like a lot of the demand that was going to hit anodes was
33:28:00 forecast to be around 25 and that's when we're planning to come into production uh you know more full scale and that is
33:36:00 um yeah the exciting times actually the next couple of years now after all this investment in years in the past I think
33:43:00 silicon's exciting obviously as well very excited about being able to do something that doesn't actually rely on
33:48:00 the mind we can use graphite from the mine obviously but we can use also graphite from other sources to make that material if we want uh we've got some
33:56:00 exciting developments in Silicon both in the near term commercialization potential looking at feasibility study
34:02:00 but also in going to our gen 3 material and also other ways of making silicon
34:07:00 and open till that I think would revolutionize the entire world so I've made comments like that over the last
34:12:00 few years that work is still all ongoing and still exciting and continuing positively haven't had any roadblocks on
34:18:00 that yet next-gen Technologies like solid state they're all laid up when people need material we'll have
34:24:00 something to sell them basically and we have to look at the way we go about expanding the
34:30:00 project not just from Northwest South you know it's potential to
34:36:00 to expand there but the way niska can be brought on stream uh when it comes to our own minds but also expanding you
34:44:00 know beyond what the niska plan is and potentially realizing that we own anode
34:49:00 production technology and Battery material technology that is transferable to other countries so in other words it
34:55:00 doesn't necessarily have to be fed from our own sources we have got quite Advanced um know-how now similar to the
35:03:00 giant chemical conglomerates of Asia and there's nothing to say we couldn't compete by having purely Downstream
35:10:00 processing capability built in other areas as well although that's a you know
35:15:00 that's down the road that's a you know we've got to walk before we can run sort of thing but it's something to be
35:20:00 be aware of is that when we talk about being a technology company that happens to understand mine it doesn't mean that
35:26:00 we have to use the mind for 100 of what we do there's all sorts of other opportunities at the end of the day we choose the pathways that are most robust
35:35:00 and most exciting where we've got massive advantages where we've got a deep and wide moat around our Tech and
35:41:00 what we do and can capture most of the margins but yeah it's probably more yeah it's full of variety Beyond uh
35:50:00 what you can see published at the moment uh just finalize on saying yep share price doing pretty well uh we had
35:57:00 obviously last year was a tough year for the market market cap is just under 600 million Aussie now still a minnow in the
36:04:00 world uh to be honest after what 13 years in July it will be since we've
36:09:00 been listed 330 million shares on issue and a few options cash of 23 mil yes
36:15:00 we've got a good burn rate because uh we're doing a lot we're not sitting around just making plans we're actually
36:21:00 investing in equipment and people to to to actually go out and do what we said we're going to do and pinning these
36:28:00 permits you know we're in a position to actually start constructing things so uh so yeah we're in actually a project
36:33:00 build stage you've got to place orders for equipment years ahead you've got to get around the chip shortages so-called
36:39:00 chip shortages and you've got to get your get in in line for some of the equipment you want and uh you know the
36:45:00 modern world you know there's a fight on so we invest in I would say we invest very well and when times are tough we
36:52:00 slow things down when times are good we speed up but um we're coming to where everything that you you was holding us
36:59:00 back is all about to sort of be resolved um really good chair register a lot pretty much all the major top
37:05:00 shareholders um participated in the last placement uh which was back in the tough times mid-june last year
37:12:00 um so we only did a small amount uh there but um yeah around 1.70 ish today
37:18:00 um so we're still of course we're cheap so I'd better leave it there thank you very much and I'll take 300 questions
37:24:00 now hopefully we've got a good amount of time left thank you Mark for the presentation and
37:31:00 uh for updating everyone on the group's activities so we're now going to move to
37:37:00 the Q a portion of today's session so once again thank you to everyone who
37:42:00 submitted a question ahead of time or through the Q a function on Zoom
37:49:00 um so the first first question I want to ask Mark is regarding download C and the
37:55:00 Eva plant um what percentage of the roughly 20 companies uh qualifying download C
38:02:00 appear to be seriously interested in an off-tech agreement
38:10:00 uh well there's multiple yeah uh there's
38:15:00 a lot well we've only got room for a few because in the first stage you know 20 000 tons of anode that gets choose out
38:21:00 so you actually only need two or three customers for for your off take uh and then
38:26:00 there's more you know potential expansions down the road so um they're all at different stages of both
38:33:00 their testing and their own corporate development uh and the different sort of countries so
38:39:00 um yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't give an exact number but they're all they're all testing the material with a view to they want to supply of it it's just all the
38:46:00 amount of time or that when they come in and at what level um but yeah it's um there's only going to be room for some and the the earlier
38:53:00 movers obviously will get you know certain deals than anyone else wanting something further down the track is
38:58:00 is going to struggle to get volumes um from us or anyone and then that will
39:04:00 continue to grow and that's why prices are you know heading up again
39:09:00 Could you um just uh put a little bit of color into the um into talking about the
39:15:00 average time it takes most customers to qualify an anode material
39:22:00 hello a lot of customers even some filmmakers they're starting up they they're
39:28:00 actually either at capacity their own testing facilities or capacity or they don't have them as advanced as what they
39:33:00 want and they don't have enough volume and it's got to spill over and they've got to have materials sent somewhere else in the world or to another person
39:39:00 or they want us to make their notes for them and return them as a or even to make an entire sell for them and send them back for testing so they all vary a
39:47:00 lot there's nothing specific but you can certainly say that it's the first six to
39:52:00 12 months is uh a sample and warning optimizations
39:58:00 talking about you know kilos of material and then you're looking at at least

 

[cosors]

40:03:00 another year for them to get to the point where they're probably getting close to an agreement so it's a fairly long process mostly
40:11:00 because of that they cycle with say you build batteries you put them in machines
40:16:00 that's charged and discharge them that's called cycling and so if you want to duplicate what is eight years or ten
40:22:00 years of life in a car in the battery use they have to cycle it for say three months then they get some results and
40:27:00 then they collate them then we've got to come back to you and discuss the results and if there's any changes or things needed things like that so that
40:34:00 qualification that's why the qualification process takes a long time now there's some groups that
40:39:00 sort of try and supercharge that process and and have material uh you know machines that can uh purportedly you
40:47:00 know generate answers a lot you know deeper into the future but most people don't have either access to those machines or they don't sort of trust
40:53:00 them yet they want to do things in the slow way so it's it's a slow process multi-years for most of them so some of
40:59:00 those are starting to mature now with us and others are just starting out right thanks
41:04:00 um let's go up the road back to kiriner or just outside for Tangi uh what's the
41:10:00 timeline for the resource upgrade yeah apologies for that we we said we'd
41:18:00 put that out by then last year because last year was you know Capital Market pretty constrained and pretty depressing
41:25:00 time we actually slowed things down a lot towards the end of the year so with that that got included in the Slowdown
41:30:00 uh it's nearing completion now we're cranking it back up again the reason is it's not actually a vital part of our
41:37:00 plans right now so the resource upgrade is is just something we need to keep doing for future planning like nisca
41:43:00 scale planning but it just wasn't so vital to have funds diverted to that in the where we're building the project and
41:49:00 going through what we're doing now with the permits and stuff like that so uh it made more sense to delay it a little bit
41:56:00 but yeah it's not far away now that's all I should really say about it it's it's it we drilled the niska link
42:03:00 area so it's not like we've gone around the whole 15 kilometers and and we're going to do some ginormous um upgrade of
42:08:00 the whole thing that's it was specifically targeted to the area between the two niskers and because that
42:13:00 isn't an existing mind plan for Northwest South it was something that we decided to just take off the priority
42:19:00 list and uh but but the results will come through very soon as will uh the results of the exploration that we did
42:25:00 but we we also didn't prioritize results for continuing to expand our resources
42:30:00 in the Batanga area generally but um yeah you can you'll see them soon but
42:35:00 the project there's nothing we're doing right now that relies on that it's something that's you know all our
42:41:00 layering up for the future are there any current plans for further
42:46:00 Drilling in the near future um yeah there's not detailed plans to be
42:51:00 honest because as I said the priority is to get into production and we've got our production plans are based on a two
42:57:00 million tonnel Reserve out of the 30 million ton current resource so we're more interested at the moment on
43:03:00 drilling that could uh alter the Mind plan or output in the short term and the
43:09:00 shortest term would be to do something in non-star South once it's uh pending
43:14:00 that it's permitted then doing something there would be would be more advantageous in the short
43:19:00 term rather continuing to build tons that you're not going to use for eight years or 10 years elsewhere around the
43:25:00 dome but um there is an argument to be made that uh you know if the financial situation was was right and I had I had
43:32:00 the money I would just drill out the whole Dome and drill out the entire exploration Target and you'd have
43:38:00 yeah as per the exploration Target up several hundred million tons uh developed for making a giant you know
43:43:00 plan so we do have plans to go big and to be larger but it's just about timing
43:48:00 when you do that when you incur that expense drilling is done by Diamond drilling up there mostly not RC and it's
43:55:00 um it's it's it's not it's not cheap and it takes some resources and so if we
44:01:00 don't really need to do anything specific as part of the planning the exploitation permits we need to put in at different times then we haven't
44:07:00 really gone ahead too much but uh you know certainly if I have the money you
44:12:00 all know I love Julian I love exploration I'll go out and do more of it if I can right um I had a few questions come in
44:19:00 regarding the permits uh just one clarification on timing so can you so
44:27:00 the the decision on permits will be made let me start again the court hearing
44:36:00 concludes on the 23rd of February and but will we know a decision on that day
44:42:00 no the the way the process works is that
44:49:00 when they finish the hearing they will give us a date when they will give you the decision
44:56:00 so the hearing part will be finished and they will inform us and we will inform
45:01:00 you what date they expect to publish the decision right so it's called a chord but in
45:09:00 reality it's it's more like a hearing that is after several years of they've
45:14:00 reviewed all the meter high documents of paperwork objection periods gone up to
45:19:00 site had Town Hall meetings and hearings locally and so this is the last stage to gather up any it's part of the process
45:26:00 and then they will but then they have to write that up what their decision is going to be so I need some time to write
45:33:00 it up and publish and we don't get forewarning of that I think we we will
45:38:00 get told when they publish the decision will probably get published in Sweden at the same time as we're told and uh and
45:46:00 then we will obviously come back to you as soon as possible um so yeah we'll find out what the date is on on February 23rd 24th when they
45:54:00 finish that right um should a permit not be granted or
45:59:00 successful how do you see the future prospects of the company yeah well it's uh we've got multiple
46:08:00 mitigations around that so not in priority but of course first we can appeal a decision that's made so we can
46:14:00 go back to the court and and uh you know try and sort out whatever would be their reason for not granting a permit
46:20:00 secondly you can apply for more permits like different permits obviously there'd be a time frame around that but there's
46:25:00 nothing to stop you doing it both for vitengi but also gel coonan and ratty Harvey are other projects so there's
46:31:00 still the potential to guide with those and thirdly uh of course we have our silicon anode business which is looking
46:37:00 looking good and fourthly uh we have been doing some work with
46:44:00 customers that want us to not only blend but make anodes from synthetic materials
46:49:00 and so we can use our no technology to use other graphite sources potentially now we've never pursued that in the past
46:56:00 because we're happy we know that the maximum in sustainability and economic performances from our own deposit but if
47:04:00 if we literally were cut off uh frankly we would still become quite a sizable uh
47:10:00 successful company I think just from our Downstream processing technology and uh
47:15:00 obviously then that would expand globally we wouldn't be exactly tied into Europe we'd still be operating
47:21:00 there but we'd probably also expand into other countries or other continents I should say and
47:28:00 um so yeah there's a whole reason there's a whole group of medications there if there's any delays there's the potential to also do more trial mining
47:35:00 I'd like to do some anyway I'd like to do an underground trial um so subject to the you know the board
47:40:00 and finances and the engineers and everyone else locally um yeah there's lots of ways we've
47:46:00 currently got material out of the ground enough to produce 6000 tons of anode so we've actually got the first uh you know
47:52:00 over the next few years we've got enough material to continue scaling up our production so yeah there's a lot of
47:58:00 positive mitigating factors around around that which give us some comfort
48:04:00 um on top of what we've seen as a very uh robust and positive permitting process
48:12:00 so far great um let's talk about download SI what can you tell us about the timeline
48:19:00 of the plants uh plan scale up and whether we'll need to build a separate
48:26:00 plant like the electric vehicle anode facility in Lulu
48:31:00 we're currently commissioning a pilot of actually just visited in Germany with uh
48:38:00 along with some customers it's been fantastic to see the team that has done a great job and loving what I'm seeing
48:45:00 loving what I'm hearing so look I think uh there's some yeah there's Milestones
48:51:00 to go through but with the pilot uh doing what it's doing the next steps would be obviously to finish our
48:59:00 feasibility study which is you know basically an internal one to prove up numbers and once we've uh
49:07:00 build up a customer that's willing to basically underwrite the demand for the commercial plant would announce some
49:12:00 sort of details around that but I think that the pressure's on to uh yeah that's
49:19:00 like a two to three year time frame to probably being commercial production I would say but it depends it wouldn't
49:24:00 necessarily be in Sweden we're currently sort of looking in Germany because we've already got that processing know-how the
49:30:00 pilots there and our people are already there but you know it could potentially be somewhere else but the reasons for
49:35:00 being in Germany would be uh multivarious which I can only talk about later on
49:41:00 um so yeah it's it's not five years away it's but it's not one year away either it's going to be um
49:48:00 we'll just have to spell out details when we when we when it's appropriate we can't preempt that too much but yeah I'm
49:54:00 excited that you'd run the part essentially you'd run the pilot in the meantime you'd be securing a site
50:00:00 um where you want to go continuing engineering and design studies uh working with the customer working on the
50:06:00 the output from the pilot and you're basically be ordering equipment starting to to get that ready uh for commercial
50:12:00 production of scale that we'll have to talk about later
50:17:00 um you know in the fullness of time but yeah you can imagine that would take you know a couple of years to to be up and
50:24:00 running you'd imagine but uh we'll see we'll talk more about it when
50:29:00 we can but it's it's pretty I consider that very near-term um considering it's can be one of the
50:36:00 few scalable ways of making silicon anode in the world even going to thousands of tons of production would
50:42:00 make it you know one of the most significant plants outside of China and um once you've proven that of course you
50:48:00 can just increase the scale massively around the world with the sort of production techniques we use
50:56:00 thanks Mark um could you please provide an update on the talcode ship trial
51:03:00 the ships last I saw them they were heading for Bermuda but it was the Bermuda Triangle um the ownership of the
51:10:00 ships changed unfortunately so we were quite we were quite close with the former owner of the ships and uh we had
51:16:00 some access That Was Then interrupted by covert and so guys all we could do is see them as they're coming into a port
51:21:00 sort of thing uh now that they've sold the ships and the new owners we've been we've reached out to we've been in in
51:27:00 touch but it hasn't we have managed to get together with them yet what I can tell you is they have not been dry docked again so as far as we can tell
51:34:00 that the coating is going perfectly fine you can track these ships they've changed their names so they're a bit a
51:39:00 little bit harder to track in future we hope to still get access to them and publish the results of that of that
51:45:00 trial but the fact that it's still cruising around out there and the bit of the ship that's got our material on it
51:50:00 isn't more Rusty than other parts of the ship suggests that it's all going perfectly well so yeah I apologize we
51:56:00 can't track it down more but um yeah it's a bit the new owners are um have been a little bit harder to sort of get
52:02:00 access to so yeah yeah look when we can we will still provide something for that we just don't have anything we can say
52:08:00 in public about it other than it's out there floating around very successfully at the moment great thanks
52:15:00 um turning back to the area around outside both for Tangi and lulio could you
52:24:00 please comment on the status of the Region's info infrastructure for example
52:29:00 Road rail water power Etc as it relates to
52:34:00 um our project up at the mine was that or down at the refinery both
52:41:00 yeah they're pretty radically different um so starting at the refinery the the area is a uh it's a local authorities
52:50:00 have basically built a an industrial park which is up to them to permit for
52:55:00 various things and we're many other things so there's already this is Behind the Steel project and the
53:01:00 um the cooking coal plant and the existing steel manufacturing plant so uh
53:06:00 the environmental guys have been permitting things like all the discharge water and things like that it's on the edge of the Baltic Sea so it's not in a
53:12:00 river as such so there's you know benefits to being there um Power we've secured as far as I know
53:19:00 we've secured the uh an allocation of considerable amount of power so that's been done it's being installed there's
53:26:00 lines being run into there that are timed we've got some power into the site already it's been cleared power's on so
53:33:00 the permitting and everything behind that so there is an ongoing there's not only building permits there's environmental permits for the refiner as
53:40:00 well but that process is not like the mining one it's a lot faster and
53:45:00 um we're expecting that to all be you know sort of resolved so power there water
53:51:00 discharge water availability all those things are all uh taken care of as far as I know
53:57:00 um up at the mine there's got to be an extension to the power line put in from safavara up to the turn off into the
54:03:00 into the mine side but in the short term if there's any delays to that you've got potential for gas and you know
54:09:00 short-term um you get a short-term uh bullets of of
54:15:00 gas and and generators put on if there's any overlap needed but power lines being put on there from supavar from the
54:21:00 existing line that goes past the project along the bitumen Road there roads upgrading what's happening with water
54:27:00 the site pretty much uses its own water so it doesn't have to draw any really there's um some melt water and
54:34:00 groundwater that then gets used and gets recycled there's a local little Lake
54:40:00 there that we sort of use as part of the process so the mine wraps around it and there's a sort of closed system with a
54:46:00 an old Ice Age Sand Dune that sort of buffers that area from from the river and yeah it's all it's all part of the
54:55:00 permitting process for that and um so yeah I think that can all come along pretty pretty quickly it's very clean
55:03:00 um I think the the actual water discharge is about one eight thousandth
55:09:00 of the current water flow going down the river so it's it's a bit like throwing you know four buckets into the Sydney
55:17:00 Harbor um yeah per period of time so it's a it's a very
55:23:00 very small uh low impact project the way it's been built and um yeah it should
55:30:00 it's gonna to be honest it's gonna be good we're going to be able to do a lot of things there that start yeah a new generation of
55:37:00 Technology being applied to mine site this can be a modern very modern way of controlling monitoring and
55:45:00 um a site and and showing how new mineral Industries can be done compared
55:50:00 to the old sort of copper and iron ore industries of the past does that answer the question sorry Alex
55:57:00 that's great um Mark we have time for just one more question uh would you be able to uh talk
56:05:00 about the purpose of our presence in Japan please oh well originally uh yeah our um Dr
56:13:00 capizulio our you know senior battery scientist and frankly uh wonderful uh
56:19:00 contributor to you know tail note C and the development of that and the process technology he lived in Japan he
56:25:00 previously worked for groups like Toyota Panasonic and uh lived in Japan and so
56:30:00 we we set up some capability there and we did a lot of work with equipment
56:35:00 vendors there and then have since transferred all of that in-house um so we still have obviously Japan is a
56:43:00 very traditional market for Lithium-ion batteries high quality materials going into not only their local battery makers
56:49:00 but Japanese battery makers that make things in other countries and other continents so
56:55:00 there's some benefit to having representation there we also have representation in Hong Kong as well
57:01:00 um we haven't we have an office there as well uh with some great great people there but um it's
57:09:00 yeah it's something that may or may not be cranked up in in future but predominantly everything's um you know
57:15:00 the main focus is mostly on Europe but that's what Japan was there for it's been great working with them on um some
57:21:00 of the high-tech parts of what we do in the anode making awesome all right
57:28:00 um we have uh that's all we have time for today so thank you Mark for your presentation and time answering
57:34:00 questions thank you everyone for attending um keep an eye out for our next
57:39:00 quarterly investor webinar in Q2 2023
57:45:00 thank you everyone thank you everyone for your time and have a great day thanks everyone

 

[cosors]

Tada it works!
It's a bit tricky as TSE first claims that uploading doesn't work and goes into a loading loop. But when I open the thread again in parallel I see that it worked.
_______
36:15:00 we've got a good burn rate because uh we're doing a lot we're not sitting around just making plans we're actually
36:21:00 investing in equipment and people to to to actually go out and do what we said we're going to do and pinning these
36:28:00 permits you know we're in a position to actually start constructing things so uh so yeah we're in actually a project
36:33:00 build stage you've got to place orders for equipment years ahead
Now we also have an explanation of where the money invested went among other things. In the pre-financing of the equipment for the factory. At least that's how I understand it. Many things are now being started in parallel so that they can be brought together in the best possible time.

 

[cosors]

Tada it works!
It's a bit tricky as TSE first claims that uploading doesn't work and goes into a loop of loading. But when I open the thread again in parallel I see that it worked.
_______
36:15:00 we've got a good burn rate because uh we're doing a lot we're not sitting around just making plans we're actually
36:21:00 investing in equipment and people to to to actually go out and do what we said we're going to do and pinning these
36:28:00 permits you know we're in a position to actually start constructing things so uh so yeah we're in actually a project
36:33:00 build stage you've got to place orders for equipment years ahead
Now we also have an explanation of where the money invested went among other things. In the pre-financing of the equipment for the factory. At least that's how I understand it. Many things are now being started in parallel so that they can be brought together in the best possible time.

MT
...and people to actually go out and do what we said we're going to do and pinning these permits...

harrr
pinning these permits - that's it

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

WoW

What happened on the ASX today

I’m up the coast with wife friends and all our hounds ( Nelson Bay)

Black Swans everywhere here. I had forgotten that about this part of the coast.

Surf surf surf everywhere

Anyway me lookin like Daniel Craig
Walk out of the surf at 4pm we are up a lot and 2 million turnover

Did the Court Judges say something last Friday ?

 

[Semmel]

WoW

What happened on the ASX today

I’m up the coast with wife friends and all our hounds ( Nelson Bay)

Black Swans everywhere here. I had forgotten that about this part of the coast.

Surf surf surf everywhere

Anyway me lookin like Daniel Craig
Walk out of the surf at 4pm we are up a lot and 2 million turnover

Did the Court Judges say something last Friday ?

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

Off to my hammock, wife with our Maltese shitzue hounds

 

[Affenhorst]

WoW

What happened on the ASX today

I’m up the coast with wife friends and all our hounds ( Nelson Bay)

Black Swans everywhere here. I had forgotten that about this part of the coast.

Surf surf surf everywhere

Anyway me lookin like Daniel Craig
Walk out of the surf at 4pm we are up a lot and 2 million turnover

Did the Court Judges say something last Friday ?

Musings on hot crapper are, that traders confused TLG with another Australian graphite company that allegedly secured an offtake agreement with Tesla.

 

[TentCity]

Musings on hot crapper are, that traders confused TLG with another Australian graphite company that allegedly secured an offtake agreement with Tesla.

Could be an expensive case of mistaken identify as many of the transactions weren’t small retail trading volumes, with many 100,000+ share transactions and one 200,000+ worth over $350,000!

Let’s see how it holds up today or profit taking takes over.

Magnis’s deal with Tesla will bring more spotlight to the graphite/anode sector, which is positive; but I bet the deal struck is firmly in Tesla’s favour. The reason the ACC deal is taking so long is MT won’t roll over on prices and lock in a fixed price with a OEM. All speculation on my part - but i reckon that’s the main sticking point and I’m glad he’s holding out to preserve upside for us shareholders.

 

[WheresTheMonkey]

Could be an expensive case of mistaken identify as many of the transactions weren’t small retail trading volumes, with many 100,000+ share transactions and one 200,000+ worth over $350,000!

Let’s see how it holds up today or profit taking takes over.

Magnis’s deal with Tesla will bring more spotlight to the graphite/anode sector, which is positive; but I bet the deal struck is firmly in Tesla’s favour. The reason the ACC deal is taking so long is MT won’t roll over on prices and lock in a fixed price with a OEM. All speculation on my part - but i reckon that’s the main sticking point and I’m glad he’s holding out to preserve upside for us shareholders.

I agree. MT is not gunna roll over on price.

“Here ACC sign on the dotted line and tickle my belly whilst you thank me”

 

[TentCity]

I agree. MT is not gunna roll over on price.

“Here ACC sign on the dotted line and tickle my belly whilst you thank me”

As suspected, the offtake deal is for a fixed undisclosed price for 3 years and they still need to undergo all the qualification over the next few years of the product to produce AAM.

If I am not mistaken, AAM (Active Anode Material), which is a term Rensascor use regularly is for Purified Spherical Graphite (PSG), not a fully 'coated' finished anode product comparable to what Talga are doing. Therefore the value of the product, fixed price mechanism limiting price upside and the fact AAM/PSG fetches a lower price (approx $3,500) compare to around $10,000 for anode still has me much preferring Talga's strategy.

Not trying to sh#t on the deal if anyone on here also hold MNS as no doubt the share price will rise today on the back of the Tesla association, but sometimes it is important to look into the fineprint of the deal and how much retail shareholders are really going to benefit from this partnership.

One thing in their favour, is it will set MNS up nicely to tap into the IRA funding to build the AAM plant in the USA and scale up akin to what SYR are trying to achieve.

I hope to see Talga one day replicate this with Talnode Si plants dotted across the US!

 

[Monkeymandan]

Trading halt. Squeaky bum time!

 

[TentCity]

As suspected, the offtake deal is for a fixed undisclosed price for 3 years and they still need to undergo all the qualification over the next few years of the product to produce AAM.

View attachment 30159

If I am not mistaken, AAM (Active Anode Material), which is a term Rensascor use regularly is for Purified Spherical Graphite (PSG), not a fully 'coated' finished anode product comparable to what Talga are doing. Therefore the value of the product, fixed price mechanism limiting price upside and the fact AAM/PSG fetches a lower price (approx $3,500) compare to around $10,000 for anode still has me much preferring Talga's strategy.

Not trying to sh#t on the deal if anyone on here also hold MNS as no doubt the share price will rise today on the back of the Tesla association, but sometimes it is important to look into the fineprint of the deal and how much retail shareholders are really going to benefit from this partnership.

One thing in their favour, is it will set MNS up nicely to tap into the IRA funding to build the AAM plant in the USA and scale up akin to what SYR are trying to achieve.

I hope to see Talga one day replicate this with Talnode Si plants dotted across the US!

Correction to my earlier post - looks like Magnis are trying to produce a fully coated anode using tech from C4V. Can be confusing how interchangable the AAM/PSG/PSCG/Anode terms are used by different companies!

Graphite Anode – Magnis

magnis.com.au

My other comments regarding locking in a fixed price & qualification period still stand.

Meanwhile - Talga have just pulled a cap raise announcement out of the blue. Won't be to retail as there is a rule around how frequently you can go back to tap those shareholders - so there must be a couple of insto's who want in. Depending on the size of this raise, this will significantly shrink the size of the supposed 'strategic partner' raise that Mitsui and others were vying for unless it is one of them going early??

 

[Vigdorian]

Trading halt. Squeaky bum time!

@WheresTheMonkey sorry to interrupt your holiday but was it you that mentioned that you need at least 2 quarters of working capital to be considered liquid to satisfy the asx listing rules ?? I can’t recall the details.

I know a normal cap raise is in order but is it also possible that this could be a cap raise for talnode si ?

 

[Slymeat]

Interesting perspective. I hope you are correct and this raise is simply to let some large instos in. I see that as positive.

 

[brewm0re]

Wrt the ASX listing on CR I’m not across the rules, but I wonder whether they use current (live) numbers (or latest reported quarterly which is now at 2.15 quarters as per ANN 31st Jan 2023 on page 14 of 15 of the Qtrly). Also, not discounting my original thoughts on insto/OEMs for the CR, but also wondering perhaps the wording ‘capital raising’ may also include debt financing (ie EIB; SEK; NIB), as this could also be regarded as a form of raising capital? Time will tell, very interesting.