BRN Discussion Ongoing
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SharesForBrekky
Regular
How I'm seeing this play out, is that Brainchip, Intel and all other competitors in the neuromorphic space are on the neuromorphic wheel, and they're using each other to help push and keep this wheel in motion.
Slowly but surely this wheel is starting to gain momentum and companies like Mercedes are amongst the first to get on this wheel and help increase this momentum.
In other words, they all need each other and the different strengths they possess for the neuromorphic technology to evolve, succeed and hopefully lead to World domination!
As far as I can make out, MB's new 2025 vehicles will not have a hardware NN, instead using software to process sensor signals. Fingers crossed this includes Akida 2/TENNS.
Clearly, NAOMI4 is just starting so it will have nothing to do with current production or any production within the next couple of years.
NAMOI4 is a government-funded project, so who knows what strings were pulled behind the scenes?
7für7
Top 20
Of course, in the end, it’s a collaboration and a mutual learning process. However, every company has its own motives and interests that it represents. They are far from being a charitable organization. Personally, I’m not worried about this news from MB (as I already mentioned above), especially because it’s a research project. Everyone can form their own opinion. I stand by my view that it was announced purely for image purposes since MB has been researching with Intel for some time. A positive refresh always goes down well with investors. DYOR.
Stable Genius
Regular
Just skimmed through an excellent Mywai presentation which was part of a broader conversation of “Thought leaders” about industrial AI. There were some other big companies guest speakers as well but I skipped them as I didn’t have time to go through it all.
The Mywai guy spoke very well. They are very ambitious and really pushing to integrate AI to the edge for real use cases. They are addressing industrial and medical.
One such use case is for Stellantis, using AI to improve and report on welding the car chassis together with robots. Also welding the large EV battery units together which given the chemistry inside and the way the integrity of unit would be built would require some precision.
Brainchip wasn’t mentioned directly and Mywai are using a few different ML options. Obviously trying to find the best solution depending on use cases, power and edge constraints etc.
There are a few images of Brainchip in the slides. I was hoping for a specific mention of which use cases but I didn’t hear any but I did skim though it.
The Mywai brand edge box looks suspiciously similar to ours?
It looks like a promising partnership with Mywai for the long term.
The Mywai guy spoke very well. They are very ambitious and really pushing to integrate AI to the edge for real use cases. They are addressing industrial and medical.
One such use case is for Stellantis, using AI to improve and report on welding the car chassis together with robots. Also welding the large EV battery units together which given the chemistry inside and the way the integrity of unit would be built would require some precision.
Brainchip wasn’t mentioned directly and Mywai are using a few different ML options. Obviously trying to find the best solution depending on use cases, power and edge constraints etc.
There are a few images of Brainchip in the slides. I was hoping for a specific mention of which use cases but I didn’t hear any but I did skim though it.
The Mywai brand edge box looks suspiciously similar to ours?
It looks like a promising partnership with Mywai for the long term.
Stable Genius
Regular
Just a random comment on Intel and MB.
It’s well documented Intel are having massive issues right now. They just laid of 15,000? staff to reduce overheads.
If it wasn’t for the Chips Act billions $$$ to build fabs they would be in even worse shape but luckily for them American Government is going to keep them afloat to guarantee a way to manufacture chips locally to reduce reliance on being supplied from Taiwan.
Given all of their bad press you would think if Intel had a winner with their Loihi they would be promoting it as loudly as they could to at least give the impression to their shareholders etc they had a new path to success. I am not saying there is no promotion but it’s not massive.
The lack of promotion of Loihi; given the current edge AI surge indicates to me they are not ready yet. For whatever reason they have not reached the threshold to be commercial. I‘m guessing it‘s a quality control; eg. it’s not working well enough for that to occur.
So I’m still inclined to think MB will be sticking with the product (Akida) whether hardware or software variation because they have already done significant work on it and they have proven it works. So that article about Nomoi4 research project has nothing to do with MB upcoming vehicle release. I don’t blame MB for doing their due diligence and testing other technologies. This is also part of a Government supported project so there are probably incentives to go with the larger well known company than a relatively unknown one. MB had obviously already completed a full assessement and comparison before choosing Akida in their prototype vehicle a few years back.
They are only months away from releasing the 2025 model so I would think it’s a bit late at this stage to change an integral part of their system.
My opinion only and I could be wrong but I’m suggesting CES2025 will have MB showcasing their new car (as they do every year) and we might get a mention in their MBOS as we did several years ago. Who knows we might even see an ASX announcement for a contract and maybe some revenue!
It’s well documented Intel are having massive issues right now. They just laid of 15,000? staff to reduce overheads.
If it wasn’t for the Chips Act billions $$$ to build fabs they would be in even worse shape but luckily for them American Government is going to keep them afloat to guarantee a way to manufacture chips locally to reduce reliance on being supplied from Taiwan.
Given all of their bad press you would think if Intel had a winner with their Loihi they would be promoting it as loudly as they could to at least give the impression to their shareholders etc they had a new path to success. I am not saying there is no promotion but it’s not massive.
The lack of promotion of Loihi; given the current edge AI surge indicates to me they are not ready yet. For whatever reason they have not reached the threshold to be commercial. I‘m guessing it‘s a quality control; eg. it’s not working well enough for that to occur.
So I’m still inclined to think MB will be sticking with the product (Akida) whether hardware or software variation because they have already done significant work on it and they have proven it works. So that article about Nomoi4 research project has nothing to do with MB upcoming vehicle release. I don’t blame MB for doing their due diligence and testing other technologies. This is also part of a Government supported project so there are probably incentives to go with the larger well known company than a relatively unknown one. MB had obviously already completed a full assessement and comparison before choosing Akida in their prototype vehicle a few years back.
They are only months away from releasing the 2025 model so I would think it’s a bit late at this stage to change an integral part of their system.
My opinion only and I could be wrong but I’m suggesting CES2025 will have MB showcasing their new car (as they do every year) and we might get a mention in their MBOS as we did several years ago. Who knows we might even see an ASX announcement for a contract and maybe some revenue!
Yoda
Regular
The cynical part of me says that MB just want a press release with 'Intel' on it but then will quietly use Akida because it is the superior product. If they don't know that already and all we've been told is true then they will soon find it out. Either way, it's not a bad outcome for us. What we need though is another public endorsement of Akida by MB or another party asap.
7für7
Top 20
And don’t forget, even big players can make wrong decisions when they’re under pressure… just like normal humans. Imagine you need a washing machine and go to the store because you need it urgently. The salesperson gives you a few options: Philips, Bosch, Toshiba, and Uruguda (fictional). He mentions that Uruguda is a new player, cheaper, and has everything included. On the other hand, you have the well-known brands, which you know are reliable, but they’re more expensive. What would you choose?
Oh yeah, I know, you’ll go for Uruguda, right?! You little…
Wags
Regular
100% agree.
With the $$ costs we have been told in the past of the Loihi research chip, Im just not buying it being in any production run. The value of the car would skyrocket. I reakon its all just a continuation of laboratory research of the ability and prospects of the technology in general. When it comes to production runs, surely it will need to be at Akida prices??
Stable Genius
Regular
Not concerned about Mercedes right now. Our tie up is with the 'furureistic' car not current or near term production models.
As a matter of course they would test other producers.
IMO our relationship with say Tata should produce results sooner. Sean and Charman Tony said at the AGM we have engagements in progress.
Most BRN competitors specialise in 'niche' areas such as vision, robotics only etc whereas BRN does the lot.
Basically only BRN, Intel and IBM are into neuromorphic 'with the lot'. I am not sure how advanced Intel and IBM are???
Being a player with the 'lot' means we are attractive to big business such as Tata who have fingers in many industry pies.
As a matter of course they would test other producers.
IMO our relationship with say Tata should produce results sooner. Sean and Charman Tony said at the AGM we have engagements in progress.
Most BRN competitors specialise in 'niche' areas such as vision, robotics only etc whereas BRN does the lot.
Basically only BRN, Intel and IBM are into neuromorphic 'with the lot'. I am not sure how advanced Intel and IBM are???
Being a player with the 'lot' means we are attractive to big business such as Tata who have fingers in many industry pies.
toasty
Regular
You know what, after 8 years I've just about had enough. Despite the reassurances of both the CEO and Chair at the last couple of AGM's, there is still no obvious commercial progress. Either the technology is not good enough or the people employed are not good enough. I suspect, and hope, that its the second. At least then we should be the target of a takeover at some point in the not-too-distant future. The ony thing that keeps me in this atm is the fact that it doesn't appear any insiders are bailing out of their holdings........... 
C'mon Sean, prove me wrong.....please!
C'mon Sean, prove me wrong.....please!
Fullmoonfever
Top 20
The key take away for me is the outlined main focus... algorithms.
Mercedes taps Intel Loihi2 for neuromorphic AI
Mercedes is using the Intel Liohi 2 for neuromorphic computing to improve the performance of forward-facing automotive radar systems.www.eenewseurope.com
Mercedes taps Intel Liohi2 for neuromorphic AI
Technology News | October 14, 2024
By Nick Flaherty
Automotive AI
Mercedes is leading a project in Germany to use neuromorphic computing to improve the performance of forward-facing automotive radar systems.
Mercedes is using the Intel Liohi 2 neuromorphic event-driven AI processor in the Naomi4radar project, says Markus Schäfer, Member of the Board of Management of Mercedes-Benz Group and Chief Technology Officer for Development & Procurement. Using neuromorphic, event driven algorithms and processors can increase the speed of response of the radar systems, he says.
The project is funded by the German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action to assess how neuromorphic computing can be used to optimise the processing of radar data in automated driving systems.
Mercedes is also working with Karlsruhe University of Applied Sciences on neuromorphic cameras, also known as event-based cameras.
The main focus for neuromorphic computing research is an agreement with the University of Waterloo in Canada with on research led by Prof. Chris Eliasmith.
The focus is on the development of algorithms for advanced driving assistance systems. By mimicking the functionality of the human brain, neuromorphic computing could significantly improve AI computation, making it faster and more energy-efficient.
While preserving vehicle range, safety systems could, for example, detect traffic signs, lanes and objects much better, even in poor visibility, and react faster. Neuromorphic computing has the potential to reduce the energy required to process data for autonomous driving by 90 percent compared to current systems.
The work with the University of Waterloo complements a series of existing Mercedes-Benz research collaborations on neuromorphic computing that includes end-to-end neuromorphic AI learning for autonomous driving.
Startups in the the Ontario Vehicle Innovation Network (OVIN) will also join the growing international Mercedes-Benz STARTUP AUTOBAHN network. The initiative aims to drive transfer research and development to industrialisation.
The OVIN Incubators Program will focus on identifying and fostering innovation in future software & AI, future vehicle components and future electric drive. Working with startups, and in partnership with OVIN, Mercedes-Benz will help progress promising projects through the provision of its specialist expertise and use cases.
“Innovation is part of Mercedes-Benz DNA. In our global R&D strategy, open innovation gives us rapid and direct access to the latest ideas and developments around the world,” said Schäfer. “We are therefore delighted to further expand our activities in Canada as a founding partner of the OVIN Incubators. In a fast-paced environment, it is another important channel for developing exciting future products and elevating our customer experience through new technologies.
In its pilot phase, the OVIN Incubators Program will conduct startup scouting to identify opportunities in Ontario relevant to Mercedes-Benz fields of research. The aim is to empower startups to engage with industry and establish a robust pipeline of companies whose growth can be catalysed. Together, OVIN and Mercedes-Benz will narrow down an initial longlist through a process of evaluation, ultimately arriving at individual projects that will progress to proof-of-concept based on Mercedes-Benz use cases.
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/news/open-innovation-canada.html
Whilst they may be using Loihi within their R&D environment there has been nothing to confirm that we are no longer in the background especially given they proved up our offering in the EQXX.
Now, imo we are a processor primarily, HW or SW and as such clients need specialised use case specific algos to run on it.
Is it possible that this MB / UoW agreement is as it states, specifically around the ADAS algo dev needs that I suspect can be transferred to something like Akida if desired and ready to implement commercially?
The main focus for neuromorphic computing research is an agreement with the University of Waterloo in Canada with on research led by Prof. Chris Eliasmith.
The focus is on the development of algorithms for advanced driving assistance systems. By mimicking the functionality of the human brain, neuromorphic computing could significantly improve AI computation, making it faster and more energy-efficient.
MDhere
Top 20
Mercedes are adopting Brainchip for Hey Mercedes, as evidenced in previous articles by Mercedes. The topic of intel research chip is just that - research. I looked back on articles, LinkedIn posts, etc and MB is hot for neuromorphic computing and its reasonable that they would like to do research, as they mentioned the leaders in neuromorphic computing IS BRAINCHIP and intel.
Hey akida, Hey Mercedes, music to my ears
Even tata took note
Of course my opinion based on my research.
Hey fellow brners happy Tuesday
FJ-215
Regular
Hi manny,
Quick question, what do you have against Antonio?
I'm not a fan of his "The S/P will do what it does" comment but other than that I don't have any concerns with him.
Charman = Janitor
Hi Wags,
I saw something the other day from Valeo which said the value of software in the software defined vehicle, ie, all new cars, will increase from 10% today to 30% by 2030. So our new algorithm product gives us a toe in that door.
I'm prety sure that, in addition to the up front costs, there will be ongoing subscription fees to keep the software updated - money for jam.
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