BRN Discussion Ongoing

[DingoBorat]

Not sure how you took it as a personal attack on you Frangipani ..

I think you're being overly sensitive.

My reply had absolutely nothing to do with our differences of opinion, on Covid19.
It was for the forum to read, not a "direct conversation" with you.

I didn't say he was "not" any of what he says he is.

He made a direct comparison on cost, of low volume BrainChip products (calling them "mass-produced") to his own experiments, with an amalgamation of actual mass produced products.

That is not scientific and I don't have to be a scientist, to make that observation.

Additionally, he also said the PC Development Kit "consumed 180w".
It has an 180w power supply, but I don't think that means, it actually "consumes 180w".
Again, very unscientific, if he is just "guessing" actual power consumption figures.

He apparently deduced, that the PC Development Kit "consumed 180w" from the reference [88] but I can't find the original paper, from your link..

It's possibly from the PC shuttle specifications here?

Akida™ Development Kit - Shuttle PC

Specifications Storage – SATA / M.2 1x 2.5" bay for SATA hard disk or SSD, max. 9.5 mm 1x M.2-2280M slot (supports PCIe x4 NVMe or SATA) 1x M.2-2230AE for an optional WLAN card Connectors HDMI 2.0a D-Sub VGA 4x USB 3.2 Gen1 4x USB 2.0 1x USB 2.0 internal USB stick 2x audio (line out, mic) Intel...

shop.brainchipinc.com

Which only lists the power supply, as I've stated.

Things electrical are like "black magic" to me, but maybe someone here, more electrically inclined, can comment if power consumption, can be ascertained from the provided power supply.

I personally think Peter would be horrified, if AKIDA consumed 180w..

 

[Frangipani]

I didn't say he was "not" any of what he says he is.

Well, to me, your comment

Is this Dr Ivan Maksymov, really a doctor? Really a scientist? Really??.. Him??..

absolutely makes it sound you did.

Instead you could have said something along the lines of despite being a scientist, he is arguing unscientifically in your eyes / not adhering to scientific standards by failing to double-check his sources etc.

So you are saying just because he erroneously refers to the Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits as being “mass-produced” in his cost comparison, it disqualifies him from being a real scientist?
You do know that scientists are human and thus err?
In fact, the history of science is full of mistakes.

But that is not what this is about.
Sloppy research? Yes, I agree, but even a correction of that term into “low-volume” would not alter his conclusion, so what’s your point?

Maybe we should email him to draw his attention to the fact that he made a minor, possibly honest mistake - after all, that’s what preprints are for.
Does anyone happen to know how many Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits were produced in total?

And generally speaking, where do we draw the line of a product still qualifying as being sold in low volumes as opposed to being mass-produced? It all depends on what it relates to, doesn’t it? Saying that, from my perspective I certainly wouldn’t call those Brainchip products offered to the general public “mass-produced”, even though I have no clue whatsoever about their number.

He made a direct comparison on cost, of low volume BrainChip products (calling them "mass-produced") to his own experiments, with an amalgamation of actual mass produced products.

That is not scientific and I don't have to be a scientist, to work that out.

As I have argued in my earlier post, his cost comparison with the low-volume Akida dev kits still makes sense to me overall, as a uni researcher like him at present would neither be able to purchase an individual mass-produced AKD1000 chip for US$15 - US$20 nor a so far non-existing USB key estimated to cost US$50 by Quantum Ventura.

Why is he supposed to calculate on the basis of a purely theoretical cost that doesn’t work out in practice to date?! I’d call THAT unscientific.

 

[DingoBorat]

Well, to me, your comment

absolutely makes it sound you did.

Instead you could have said something along the lines of despite being a scientist, he is arguing unscientifically in your eyes / not adhering to scientific standards by failing to double-check his sources etc.

So you are saying just because he erroneously refers to the Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits as being “mass-produced” in his cost comparison, it disqualifies him from being a real scientist?
You do know that scientists are human and thus err?
In fact, the history of science is full of mistakes.

But that is not what this is about.
Sloppy research? Yes, I agree, but even a correction of that term into “low-volume” would not alter his conclusion, so what’s your point?

Maybe we should email him to draw his attention to the fact that he made a minor, possibly honest mistake - after all, that’s what preprints are for.
Does anyone happen to know how many Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits were produced in total?

And generally speaking, where do we draw the line of a product still qualifying as being sold in low volumes as opposed to being mass-produced? It all depends on what it relates to, doesn’t it? Saying that, from my perspective I certainly wouldn’t call those Brainchip products offered to the general public “mass-produced”, even though I have no clue whatsoever about their number.



As I have argued in my earlier post, his cost comparison with the low-volume Akida dev kits still makes sense to me overall, as a uni researcher like him at present would neither be able to purchase an individual mass-produced AKD1000 chip for US$15 - US$20 nor a so far non-existing USB key estimated to cost US$50 by Quantum Ventura.

Why is he supposed to calculate on the basis of a purely theoretical cost that doesn’t work out in practice to date?! I’d call THAT unscientific.

Simpson's fans, may have picked up on my source, for the questioning of his credentials..

And in the original example, he really was, who he claimed to be..

 

[CHIPS]

All open time slots for meeting BrainChip at CES24 in more private are gone! There seems to be a lot of interest in getting to know BrainChip more in detail .

 

[DingoBorat]

Well, to me, your comment

absolutely makes it sound you did.

Instead you could have said something along the lines of despite being a scientist, he is arguing unscientifically in your eyes / not adhering to scientific standards by failing to double-check his sources etc.

So you are saying just because he erroneously refers to the Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits as being “mass-produced” in his cost comparison, it disqualifies him from being a real scientist?
You do know that scientists are human and thus err?
In fact, the history of science is full of mistakes.

But that is not what this is about.
Sloppy research? Yes, I agree, but even a correction of that term into “low-volume” would not alter his conclusion, so what’s your point?

Maybe we should email him to draw his attention to the fact that he made a minor, possibly honest mistake - after all, that’s what preprints are for.
Does anyone happen to know how many Akida PCIe Boards and Dev Kits were produced in total?

And generally speaking, where do we draw the line of a product still qualifying as being sold in low volumes as opposed to being mass-produced? It all depends on what it relates to, doesn’t it? Saying that, from my perspective I certainly wouldn’t call those Brainchip products offered to the general public “mass-produced”, even though I have no clue whatsoever about their number.



As I have argued in my earlier post, his cost comparison with the low-volume Akida dev kits still makes sense to me overall, as a uni researcher like him at present would neither be able to purchase an individual mass-produced AKD1000 chip for US$15 - US$20 nor a so far non-existing USB key estimated to cost US$50 by Quantum Ventura.

Why is he supposed to calculate on the basis of a purely theoretical cost that doesn’t work out in practice to date?! I’d call THAT unscientific.

"But that is not what this is about.
Sloppy research? Yes, I agree, but even a correction of that term into “low-volume” would not alter his conclusion, so what’s your point?"

Your statement doesn't make sense Frangipani..

His "conclusion" was based on the price and power usage of AKIDA products.

My original point, was that his logic was flawed on price point and now possibly also on power consumption.

Which makes all his points against AKIDA irrelevant, in my opinion.

That's my point, what's his, if his commentary on AKIDA is flawed?

 

[Frangipani]

He apparently deduced, that the PC Development Kit "consumed 180w" from the reference [88] but I can't find the original paper, from your link..

It's possibly from the PC shuttle specifications here?

Akida™ Development Kit - Shuttle PC

Specifications Storage – SATA / M.2 1x 2.5" bay for SATA hard disk or SSD, max. 9.5 mm 1x M.2-2280M slot (supports PCIe x4 NVMe or SATA) 1x M.2-2230AE for an optional WLAN card Connectors HDMI 2.0a D-Sub VGA 4x USB 3.2 Gen1 4x USB 2.0 1x USB 2.0 internal USB stick 2x audio (line out, mic) Intel...

shop.brainchipinc.com

Which only lists the power supply, as I've stated.

View attachment 53528

Things electrical are like "black magic" to me, but maybe someone here, more electrically inclined, can comment if power consumption, can be ascertained from the provided power supply.

I personally think Peter would be horrified, if AKIDA consumed 180w..

Here is the link to the preprint (non peer-reviewed) paper published on Jan 4:

Physical Reservoir Computing Enabled by Solitary Waves and Biologically-Inspired Nonlinear Transformation of Input Data

Reservoir computing (RC) systems can efficiently forecast chaotic time series using nonlinear dynamical properties of an artificial neural network of random connections. The versatility of RC systems has motivated further research on both hardware counterparts of traditional RC algorithms and...

www.preprints.org

I just checked - reference 88 refers to the following 2022 Q&A with PVDM:

https://brainchip.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/BrainChip-Learning-how-to-Learn.pdf

AFAICT the only reference to power consumption is this one on AKD1000 itself on p. 6, but no mention of the PC Dev Kit, which would obviously use more watts than the chip itself.

Strangely, however, the author’s reference relates to p.12:

So I suppose, the author must have derived his info from another source. I had assumed from the product data sheet.

More sloppiness then, mmmh. Not looking good on the “How to write a scientific paper” front. And his preprint definitely needs better proofreading!
Which doesn’t automatically mean the 180 W must be incorrect, though. Let’s wait for the experts to reply…

Things electrical are like "black magic" to me, but maybe someone here, more electrically inclined, can comment if power consumption, can be ascertained from the provided power supply.

Yeah, same here…

 

[DingoBorat]

Here is the link to the preprint (non peer-reviewed) paper published on Jan 4:

Physical Reservoir Computing Enabled by Solitary Waves and Biologically-Inspired Nonlinear Transformation of Input Data

Reservoir computing (RC) systems can efficiently forecast chaotic time series using nonlinear dynamical properties of an artificial neural network of random connections. The versatility of RC systems has motivated further research on both hardware counterparts of traditional RC algorithms and...

www.preprints.org

I just checked - reference 88 refers to the following 2022 Q&A with PVDM:

https://brainchip.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/BrainChip-Learning-how-to-Learn.pdf

AFAICT the only reference to power consumption is this one on AKD1000 itself on p. 6, but no mention of the PC Dev Kit, which would obviously use more watts than the chip itself.

View attachment 53530


Strangely, however, the author’s reference relates to p.12:

View attachment 53534


So I suppose, the author must have derived his info from another source. I had assumed from the product data sheet.

More sloppiness then, mmmh. Not looking good on the “How to write a scientific paper” front. And his preprint definitely needs better proofreading!
Which doesn’t automatically mean the 180 W must be incorrect, though. Let’s wait for the experts to reply…



Yeah, same here…

Looks to me, like he provided "references" to the information provided, thinking no one would actually bother to look them up?..

Also, if AKIDA is included in a system (the PC Shuttle) even if that system did use the full 180w (I'm thinking that would be the "maximum" intended draw).

Does that reflect on the actual "AKIDA component" power usage?

The logic in his arguments against AKIDA, just don't make sense to me, even from a layman's view..

 

[stockduck]

Geez I have seriously missed the significance of the Microchip announcement. I saw it pop up the other day, but didn't give it much attention, brushing it off thinking they are another mediocre Teksun, Lorser (or the like) partnership. But no, Rod Drake, the Vice President of Microchip Technology, a Nasdaq listed company with annual revenue of US $9 billion is suggesting to their customers that they should use Akida for their low power high performance machine learning applications.

Have I missed something? Why are we talking more about spelling mistakes than this announcement???

Hats off to the Brainchip team. Unigen and Microchip Technologies in the space of 2 weeks. Just imagine what they will achieve over the next 12 months.

That is a good question.

We all make mistakes, and in finding the definition of a mistake, we even do mistakes, only time of experience let made us wiser.
Well,....it is all a question of "one shot learning versus few shot learning".
But spelling mistakes have to be adressed to the direction where it comes from. That is no big deal, right. /even if it could be a new software program with akida inside.

Can anyone provide a customer base list from NVISO?Please....?
With whom are they dealing?

 

[Frangipani]

Your statement doesn't make sense Frangipani..

His "conclusion" was based on the price and power usage of AKIDA products.

My original point, was that his logic was flawed on price point and now possibly also on power consumption.

Which makes all his points against AKIDA irrelevant, in my opinion.

That's my point, what's his, if his commentary on AKIDA is flawed?

I disagree. My point is that your logic regarding price calculation is flawed, and his is not, as I see it. And even if an Akida Dev Kit used magnitudes of less power than the 180 W the author (rightly or wrongly) claims it does, you’d need to invest a lot of money first (let’s take the US$5000 for the less expensive Raspberry Pi Dev Kit, and since it is sold out on the Brainchip website, let’s say you could get it for a slight discount from somebody who originally purchased it), which you are not likely to ever make up with power savings for the duration of your research project, even if your microcontroller was not as low power as the Akida device.

Of course you could reuse it for countless future projects, though…

But for someone who doesn’t have the budget to buy an Akida Dev Kit and only wants to play around occasionally, I don’t see why the idea of an inexpensive prototype like that developed by Ivan Maksymov (provided it is functional) is such a bad one?
(Not that I’d have the slightest clue what to do with it…)

Look, I had never heard of this gentleman until yesterday, happened to stumble upon his preprint when googling, thought I would share his mentioning of Akida here, and now feel I have to defend him because IMO he was being unfairly attacked. That’s all.

 

[DingoBorat]

Looks to me, like he provided "references" to the information provided, thinking no one would actually bother to look them up?..

Also, if AKIDA is included in a system (the PC Shuttle) even if that system did use the full 180w (I'm thinking that would be the "maximum" intended draw).

Does that reflect on the actual "AKIDA component" power usage?

The logic in his arguments against AKIDA, just don't make sense to me, even from a layman's view..

This from a quick search on the net, first thing that came up..

"Yes, a power supply draws power relative to how much is being used. So if your PC hardware is only using 200W, your 500W power supply won't draw 500W. How much it draws will vary from power supply to power supply"

Seriously, how can this guy make a statement of consumed power from so little information?
And then put it in a scientific paper, with references, that don't match up??

Surely someone with PhDs in "Electrical Engineering" and "Theoretical and Mathematical Physics" would know, without a shadow of a doubt, that a device's power consumption, isn't determined by the size of its power supply??

So how can he possibly come to the conclusion, that the AKIDA Development Kit "consumes 180w"??

That's not just sloppy research.

The only conclusion I can come to, is that it can be likened to a scientific tenet of "baffle them with bullshit".

 

[DingoBorat]

I disagree. My point is that your logic regarding price calculation is flawed, and his is not, as I see it. And even if an Akida Dev Kit used magnitudes of less power than the 180 W the author (rightly or wrongly) claims it does, you’d need to invest a lot of money first (let’s take the US$5000 for the less expensive Raspberry Pi Dev Kit, and since it is sold out on the Brainchip website, let’s say you could get it for a slight discount from somebody who originally purchased it), which you are not likely to ever make up with power savings for the duration of your research project, even if your microcontroller was not as low power as the Akida device.

Of course you could reuse it for countless future projects, though…

But for someone who doesn’t have the budget to buy an Akida Dev Kit and only wants to play around occasionally, I don’t see why the idea of an inexpensive prototype like that developed by Ivan Maksymov (provided it is functional) is such a bad one?
(Not that I’d have the slightest clue what to do with it…)

Look, I had never heard of this gentleman until yesterday, happened to stumble upon his preprint when googling, thought I would share his mentioning of Akida here, and now feel I have to defend him because IMO he was being unfairly attacked. That’s all.

I don't think he's being unfairly attacked at all.

In fact, he's "unfairly" attacking the value proposition of AKIDA, from what can only be a skewed personal perception, without relevant facts, in my opinion.

AKIDA development kits, aren't specifically intended for backyard hobbyists and are not priced as such.

The Quantum Ventura AKIDA USB stick at ~$US50.00 (should that product eventuate) is and although he can't possibly do a price comparison on a product that doesn't exist yet, his "product" at ~$US100 doesn't exist yet either?..

And which product, if both existed, would absolutely bury the other?

I'm thinking it would be the AKIDA USB stick, but that is of course, just a guess.


I still can't see how you can agree on his argument of price point..

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, again

 

[TECH]

Gidday All,

This month has plenty going on...CES and Podcast/s and of course our Quarterly Report and 4C, which in real terms is only
about 15 business days away.

Once again, I'm thinking nothing much to see at all apart from maybe early funds having been received from LDA Capital, it is an
interesting period but one where I remain strong in my beliefs that things are finally set to propel us forward, maybe not as fast as we
all wish, but never-the-less forward over the coming 4 quarters.

Just remember this; We are in an extremely strong position currently, do debt, solid cash on hand, yes we have added more shares, yes
we are still a target for manipulators, but the Technology, the Patents, the Staff, the Partnerships all out weigh how many view the present
situation, as I have personally said a few times now, "If Brainchip can't succeed, well good luck to the mob"

Something from TATA involving us is the news I'm looking for from CES next week ! Tech.

 

[Sirod69]

HUMAN BEHAVIOUR AI​

NEUROMORPHIC COMPUTING​

NVISO empowers system integrators to build AI-driven human machine interfaces to transform our lives using neuromorphic computing. Understand people and their behavior in real-time without an internet connection to make autonomous devices safe, secure, and personalized for humans.

BrainChip and NVISO Group Demonstrate AI-Enabled Human Behavioral Analysis at CES 2024

Neuromorphic Computing - NVISO

HUMAN BEHAVIOUR AI NEUROMORPHIC COMPUTING NVISO empowers system integrators to build AI-driven human machine interfaces to transform our lives using neuromorphic computing. Understand people and their behavior in real-time without an internet connection to make autonomous devices safe, secure...

nviso.ai

 

[IloveLamp]

That is a good question.

We all make mistakes, and in finding the definition of a mistake, we even do mistakes, only time of experience let made us wiser.
Well,....it is all a question of "one shot learning versus few shot learning".
But spelling mistakes have to be adressed to the direction where it comes from. That is no big deal, right. /even if it could be a new software program with akida inside.

Can anyone provide a customer base list from NVISO?Please....?
With whom are they dealing?

NVISO / BRN

Thought a thread for this partnership would come in handy..................I did some stalking of the Rob Telson equivelent from NVISO on LinkedIn. A few potential customers below....... Tip of the Ice Berg ppl..........no surprises here

thestockexchange.com.au

 

[IloveLamp]

This article is an interesting read, It also links magna to apple...

Magna is one of the companies Rob has been liking recently.

An Apple Car; A Tesla Phone

An Apple Car; A Tesla Phone

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about." – Oscar Wilde Tesla’s impact on the automotive industry is driven by several industry redefining elements including a reworking and centralization of vehicle electronic architectures, a direct sa

www.linkedin.com

 

[stockduck]

NVISO / BRN

Thought a thread for this partnership would come in handy..................I did some stalking of the Rob Telson equivelent from NVISO on LinkedIn. A few potential customers below....... Tip of the Ice Berg ppl..........no surprises here

thestockexchange.com.au

...much appreciated!

So there are many customers to maybe consider what Mr. Drake from microchip has to explain.....

“In this collaborative showcase with BrainChip, we will illustrate how our customers can leverage the advantages of next-generation AI to enable low-power, high-performance machine learning applications on our embedded platforms,” said Rod Drake, corporate vice president of Microchip’s MPU32 and MCU32 business units. “This is truly a not-to-miss demonstration at CES 2024.”
...

BrainChip to Unveil Akida Neuromorphic Processor Enabled by Microchip’s 32-bit MPU at CES 2024

With a focus on ultra-low latency, minimal power consumption, and unparalleled accuracy, this collaboration explores the forefront of innovation at the Edge.

brainchip.com

 

[IloveLamp]

GAME ON ......

Sony Shows Off Next-Gen TV Technology - And It Isn’t OLED

Sony targets way more brightness for less power consumption with new Mini LED display

www.forbes.com

 

[stockduck]

CES 2025 | Las Vegas | Accenture

Accenture is a sponsor at CES 2025 in Las Vegas, sharing experiences and examples of scaling GenAI in the real world. Join us.

www.accenture.com

Maybe someone, who is attending at the CES could refer us to the topics off:

Accenture on the CES Main Stage​

All sessions are posted in PST​

Jan 10 – 9:00 am - The Hard Part of AI: Hardware and Chips​

As Generative AI breaks into the mainstream, take a look under the hood at the hardware and practical building blocks powering this technology.


I hope they are the same accenture firm from January 9, 2023:

BrainChip Talks AI Innovation with Accenture’s Managing Director and Global Chief Technology Officer of Accenture Applied Intelligence Jean-Luc Chatelain

BrainChip engages in AI innovation discussions with Accenture's Jean-Luc Chatelain, exploring transformative advancements across industries.

brainchip.com

BrainChip Talks AI Innovation with Accenture’s Managing Director and Global Chief Technology Officer of Accenture Applied Intelligence Jean-Luc Chatelain​

 

[Neuromorphia]

GAME ON ......

Sony Shows Off Next-Gen TV Technology - And It Isn’t OLED

Sony targets way more brightness for less power consumption with new Mini LED display

www.forbes.com

View attachment 53537
View attachment 53538 View attachment 53539 View attachment 53540 View attachment 53541

???

Home

iotypro.com

Cognitive Processor XR, powered by cognitive intelligence, divides the screen into numerous zones and detects where the “focal point” is in the picture.

 

[The Pope]

RT (Batman) likes another Circle 8 post (don’t know if this was posted on TSE before). For only those posters who like dot joining.

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. The world is lacking in collection systems! | Mark Grogan

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. The world is lacking in collection systems!

www.linkedin.com