BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Slade]

Engaged how? What does that actually mean?

What rumours? It was only me speculating which I highlighted from the start so even the dumbest person wouldn't misunderstand. Some people need to get a grip . Too my people are jumping at shadows.

The unemotional technical conversation I had with Dio with input from others, proved it was feasible for MB to be using IRIS as their Lidar in their 2024 vehicles not that they actually are. It also showed there was scope for Akida to be used in IRIS not that it is.

@Proga my post wasn’t directed at you but at a number of posts over the last few weeks that were suggesting that BrainChip might no longer be working with Mercedes because we hadn’t heard anything for a year. Clearly we are still working with Mercedes and that’s a good thing.
Good that you are dumbing down your posts so us dumb ones can follow what you are saying.

 

[Kachoo]

You guys, especially @chapman89 have all but proven our connection with Scala 3, very exciting. @Proga has guessed, educatedly I’m sure, at 2.5% of revenue. Are there people with experience in this field that can give what we would expect as a % of revenue?

This actually makes my weekend! I do remember that interview when they were asked about Akida and they did not know what to say just looked shocked. If we are on we are going to see revenue soon!

Have a great weekend folks

 

[Mccabe84]

Hi Fmf,

Well emotion3D think it is possible. There is a possibility that they will be using an Akida-equipped Raspberry pi at the demo. The initial purpose was announced as being to demonstrate in-cabin analysis.

https://brainchip.com/brainchip-par...to-improve-driver-safety-and-user-experience/
Laguna Hills, Calif. – February 26, 2023 – BrainChip Holdings Ltd (ASX: BRN, OTCQX: BRCHF, ADR: BCHPY), the world’s first commercial producer of ultra-low power, fully digital, event-based, neuromorphic AI IP, today announced that it has entered into a partnership with emotion3D to demonstrate in-cabin analysis that makes driving safer and enables next level user experience.
...
“We are committed to setting the standard in driving safety and user experience through the development of camera-based, in-cabin understanding,” says Florian Seitner, CEO at emotion3D. “In combining our in-cabin analysis software with BrainChip’s on-chip compute, we are able to elevate that standard in a faster, safer and smarter way. This partnership will provide a cascading number of benefits that will continue to disrupt the mobility industry.”

I saw this on another group not to sure if it been posted here yet.. https://emotion3d.ai/emotion3ds-fir...1WOEzBshkFsgqUatB7OxDXhhNWBEFE891dUt8HcAHSG5s

 

[IloveLamp]

I wasn’t going to post this, but it is on the public domain (LinkedIn)

So Valeo posted an interview with their Innovation Chief the other day, I’ll post the link. The interview was about a range of things and one of them being SCALA 3.

DVN-L Interview: Benazouz Bradaï, Valeo AD Innovation Chief - DVN

Dr. Benazouz Bradaï is Research & Innovation Director and Master Expert in Autonomous Driving at Valeo. In that role, he’s made major scientific and industrial contributions. He is also a…

www.drivingvisionnews.com

Anyway I commented on it and said and I quote-

“
Great interview.

I suspect Valeo has achieved this through breakthroughs in Al and #neuromorphic”

And I received a public comment back from somebody who has worked at Valeo for over 27 years and he responded with-

“
yes we did a lot with #neuromorphic
#SNN

I’ll attach the photo below.

Now you have to ask yourself, is there any other company out there with a commercially available neuromorphic IP?? We all know it’s Brainchip, come on everybody, I know we want to see the announcement that it’s offical, but this is disruptive technology, world first, and as the former CEO said and the current CEO, that these companies see akida as the key differentiator. Now who knows if it will ever become public knowledge? Maybe one day, but from the original offical release of Valeo SCALA 3 that a lot of us watched, and the question was asked, is this using Brainchips akida, and they both looked at each other and didn’t know what to say, and said we can’t say who it is, we may mention it in a few months…..
They’ve never disclosed the IP they are using.

Here’s the photo below, it was only 2-3 days ago this happened!
I hope this brightens up everybody’s weekend

View attachment 39982

Thanks

 

[Mt09]

This actually makes my weekend! I do remember that interview when they were asked about Akida and they did not know what to say just looked shocked. If we are on we are going to see revenue soon!

Have a great weekend folks

I missed that presso, wish we had a recording of the q&a!

 

[Proga]

You guys, especially @chapman89 have all but proven our connection with Scala 3, very exciting. @Proga has guessed, educatedly I’m sure, at 2.5% of revenue. Are there people with experience in this field that can give what we would expect as a % of revenue?

The 2.5% was from @Dozzaman1977. He was 1 or 2 steps ahead of me. I copied it to run his numbers through my head.

 

[Stable Genius]

Seeing as how we are talking Valeo here’s an AI presentation from them dated May 23 but I haven’t seen it posted on here yet.

https://www.valeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/evercore-isi-autotech-and-ai-forum_2023-05_valeo.pdf

Revenue depends on if you are only including us in the Scala 3 LiDAR. If you’re talking behind every sensor then you’re gonna need a bigger calculator!

 

[rgupta]

Seeing as how we are talking Valeo here’s an AI presentation from them dated May 23 but I haven’t seen it posted on here yet.

https://www.valeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/evercore-isi-autotech-and-ai-forum_2023-05_valeo.pdf

Revenue depends on if you are only including us in the Scala 3 LiDAR. If you’re talking behind every sensor then you’re gonna need a bigger calculator!

View attachment 39997

Frankly 2.5% of product value is also on a higher side. If arm charge that much, they could had been the most valuable company on this planet.
Dyor

 

[Dozzaman1977]

Frankly 2.5% of product value is also on a higher side. If arm charge that much, they could had been the most valuable company on this planet.
Dyor

Lol lol......
Comparing a joint development agreement between Valeo and Brainchip on a completly new tech product to what ARM charge for chips ........ let's just compare apples and oranges then
Dyor ....

 

[chapman89]

Frankly 2.5% of product value is also on a higher side. If arm charge that much, they could had been the most valuable company on this planet.
Dyor

For disruptive technology you can charge 15%.

This is a paper by Intel, which has been posted many times by Fact Finder.

https://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/194662/sub066-intellectual-property.pdf

 

[Stable Genius]

Frankly 2.5% of product value is also on a higher side. If arm charge that much, they could had been the most valuable company on this planet.
Dyor

Hi @rgupta

I’m hoping it’s more than 2.5% to be honest. If their product doesn’t work without us then their revenue becomes zero.

Whoever does the contract negotiations (Rob T) is vital. A small percent off can make a massive difference over the life of the agreement.

Hopefully as a partnership we have managed to achieve more in which case we will become a going concern very quickly when revenue kicks in!

 

[rgupta]

For disruptive technology you can charge 15%.

This is a paper by Intel, which has been posted many times by Fact Finder.

https://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/194662/sub066-intellectual-property.pdf

I really respect your views but still in Valeo and brn chip case a royality of 2.5% at this time is too high.
Reason for the same is brainchip is a startup and does not have too much bargaining power. On the other hand Valeo is more established as compared to brn.
Yes in the future a start up may agree to pay that much royality when brainchip is an established player.
The other reason is I don't want to over exaggerate the situation. To me the same may be over hype.
But again those are my personal opinions. You can prove me wrong by quoting a real life example than a paper.
Thanks

 

[Tothemoon24]

Proga it takes at the bare minimum 3 years, sometimes 4-5 years for automotive.
Here is a video from RENESAS CEO from 2 months ago outlining how long it takes.
I encourage all here to listen to what he says about how long it takes for automotive.

Have a listen from 55 min mark-

3rd futureDESIGN Roadshow under SemiconIndia Design Linked Incentive (DLI) Scheme

03rd Roadshow at IIT Delhi on 12th May 2023 with Shri Rajeev Chandrasekhar, Hon'ble Minister of State for Electronics & Information Technology and Skill Deve...

www.youtube.com

Spot on @chapman89
We will have our Ford badge one day


Ford CEO explains why legacy car manufacturers cannot compete with Tesla in software (or make good software). Turns out each car has around 150 modules that control the vehicles that require software - for each module they have a tender and suppliers are bidding against each other. For example, Bosch builds one module, Panasonic builds another, etc. Each supplier writes its own software in different programming languages. For every software change on each module, they have to go back to the supplier to ask for permission because of IP rights. Ford is now trying to build a new generation of modules with in-house software - which they never wrote before.

 

[rgupta]

Hi @rgupta

I’m hoping it’s more than 2.5% to be honest. If their product doesn’t work without us then their revenue becomes zero.

Whoever does the contract negotiations (Rob T) is vital. A small percent off can make a massive difference over the life of the agreement.

Hopefully as a partnership we have managed to achieve more in which case we will become a going concern very quickly when revenue kicks in!

SG I don't want to disagree with your reasoning but again both companies start working on a product which may take 4-5 years of development. To agree to pay 2.5 % or more on an undeveloped product may be too much to ask. But again depending upon the work load same may be true.
So I surrender my case here. I will be the happiest holder if royalty is high but over expectations sometimes end up over estimates.

 

[Stable Genius]

I really respect your views but still in Valeo and brn chip case a royality of 2.5% at this time is too high.
Reason for the same is brainchip is a startup and does not have too much bargaining power. On the other hand Valeo is more established as compared to brn.
Yes in the future a start up may agree to pay that much royality when brainchip is an established player.
The other reason is I don't want to over exaggerate the situation. To me the same may be over hype.
But again those are my personal opinions. You can prove me wrong by quoting a real life example than a paper.
Thanks

Hi @rgupta

I also don’t want to overstate the revenue and lead to disappointment.

Reality is that no one knows until it comes through and even then it won’t be itemised.

All I can say with confidence is that they are a global powerhouse whom are our trusted partner.

It’ll be great to finally have it confirmed we are in their product/s and receive significant revenue!

 

[Diogenese]

Hi @rgupta

I’m hoping it’s more than 2.5% to be honest. If their product doesn’t work without us then their revenue becomes zero.

Whoever does the contract negotiations (Rob T) is vital. A small percent off can make a massive difference over the life of the agreement.

Hopefully as a partnership we have managed to achieve more in which case we will become a going concern very quickly when revenue kicks in!

The Valeo deal is a joint development, where normally remuneration is based on sales, each party's share being calculated based on their contribution.

From the technical aspect, Akida has made a major contribution, but unfortunately it is more likely the contribution is measured in terms of dollars and euros. The power saving provides the auto makers with a strong selling point in addressing range anxiety.

However, we need to remember we were not negotiating from a position of strength in 2020. Our finances were not the best because we did not have any customers.

As our friends at MF constantly remind us, our R&D spend is miniscule compared with the big boys, but we could expect a lot better than 2.5%. Again, I assume that figure is just cited to show the bottom end of what we could expect.

PS: For those who bought in on the Valeo news, there is little to complain about.


https://smallcaps.com.au/brainchip-joint-development-agreement-akida-neuromorphic-chip-valeo/

BrainChip signs joint development agreement for Akida neuromorphic chip with Valeo​

By George Tchetvertakov -
June 9, 2020

Artificial intelligence device company BrainChip Holdings (ASX: BRN) has taken an affirmative step towards integrating its Akida neuromorphic chip into autonomous vehicles after signing a binding joint development agreement with European automotive supplier Valeo Corporation.

The agreement means both companies will collaborate to develop a new wave of tech solutions based on artificial intelligence (AI) and reduced power consumption within the overarching theme of miniaturisation that’s taking the tech industry by storm.

...

In a statement to the market this morning, BrainChip said Valeo will utilise Akida and collaborate on the development of neural network processing solutions, for integration in autonomous vehicles (AVs).

The terms of the deal stipulate that both companies must reach specific performance milestones, with BrainChip stating it expects to receive payments to cover its expenses, subject to the completion of, as yet, undisclosed milestones.

Neuromorphic engineering was first developed by US scientist Carver Mead in the 1980s and refers to the use of very-large-scale integration (VLSI) systems containing electronic analogue circuits to mimic neuro-biological architectures present in the nervous system.

According to BrainChip, by combining the Akida neural network processor with sensors, the resulting system can achieve ultra-low power, minimum latency, maximum reliability and incremental learning.

“This is a major advancement over current architectures which require large amounts of data to be transmitted to a CPU or GPU, which has the burden of processing all data from all sensors and then combining the results to make a decision or retrain the network for new classifiers,” the company said.

Today’s news pushed BrainChip shares up by 36% to $0.12 per share in morning trade.

 

[chapman89]

I really respect your views but still in Valeo and brn chip case a royality of 2.5% at this time is too high.
Reason for the same is brainchip is a startup and does not have too much bargaining power. On the other hand Valeo is more established as compared to brn.
Yes in the future a start up may agree to pay that much royality when brainchip is an established player.
The other reason is I don't want to over exaggerate the situation. To me the same may be over hype.
But again those are my personal opinions. You can prove me wrong by quoting a real life example than a paper.
Thanks

Brainchip has everything to bargain with.
It’s their IP and their technology which is “revolutionising the automotive industry”
Take away Brainchip and you’ve got power hungry expensive GPU’s running through software.

We likely won’t ever find out the royalty, but what does seem sure and certain is akida will be featuring in Valeos SCALA3.

Valeo has taken $1 billion euros in Pre Orders already, which is $1.6/7 billion AUD, can we get let’s say 4%? That’s $60-$70 million AUD, and we’ve got to remember, that revenue will continue to grow month on month as more cars are being made, and YoY it will be even more as more cars adopt SCALA3 and it eventually becomes industry standard….and that’s just Valeo.
Valeo supply 1/3 of all sensors to the automotive industry.
Stellantis has also said they will use Valeos SCALA3.

Stellantis to use Valeo lidar for Level 3 self-driving cars from 2024

Stellantis' first generation of 'hands-free, eyes-off' self-driving cars will use Valeo's Scala lidar systems.

europe.autonews.com

If we combine Valeo, renesas, megachips, few others hiding in the background? Maybe within 18 months Brainchip could be receiving $100 million plus.

 

[Diogenese]

Spot on @chapman89
We will have our Ford badge one day


Ford CEO explains why legacy car manufacturers cannot compete with Tesla in software (or make good software). Turns out each car has around 150 modules that control the vehicles that require software - for each module they have a tender and suppliers are bidding against each other. For example, Bosch builds one module, Panasonic builds another, etc. Each supplier writes its own software in different programming languages. For every software change on each module, they have to go back to the supplier to ask for permission because of IP rights. Ford is now trying to build a new generation of modules with in-house software - which they never wrote before.

This shows Mercedes forward thinking.

 

[JB49]

I wasn’t going to post this, but it is on the public domain (LinkedIn)

So Valeo posted an interview with their Innovation Chief the other day, I’ll post the link. The interview was about a range of things and one of them being SCALA 3.

DVN-L Interview: Benazouz Bradaï, Valeo AD Innovation Chief - DVN

Dr. Benazouz Bradaï is Research & Innovation Director and Master Expert in Autonomous Driving at Valeo. In that role, he’s made major scientific and industrial contributions. He is also a…

www.drivingvisionnews.com

Anyway I commented on it and said and I quote-

“
Great interview.

I suspect Valeo has achieved this through breakthroughs in Al and #neuromorphic”

And I received a public comment back from somebody who has worked at Valeo for over 27 years and he responded with-

“
yes we did a lot with #neuromorphic
#SNN

I’ll attach the photo below.

Now you have to ask yourself, is there any other company out there with a commercially available neuromorphic IP?? We all know it’s Brainchip, come on everybody, I know we want to see the announcement that it’s offical, but this is disruptive technology, world first, and as the former CEO said and the current CEO, that these companies see akida as the key differentiator. Now who knows if it will ever become public knowledge? Maybe one day, but from the original offical release of Valeo SCALA 3 that a lot of us watched, and the question was asked, is this using Brainchips akida, and they both looked at each other and didn’t know what to say, and said we can’t say who it is, we may mention it in a few months…..
They’ve never disclosed the IP they are using.

Here’s the photo below, it was only 2-3 days ago this happened!
I hope this brightens up everybody’s weekend

View attachment 39982

Has the comment now been removed from linkedin?

 

[Proga]

Brainchip has everything to bargain with.
It’s their IP and their technology which is “revolutionising the automotive industry”
Take away Brainchip and you’ve got power hungry expensive GPU’s running through software.

We likely won’t ever find out the royalty, but what does seem sure and certain is akida will be featuring in Valeos SCALA3.

Valeo has taken $1 billion euros in Pre Orders already, which is $1.6/7 billion AUD, can we get let’s say 4%? That’s $60-$70 million AUD, and we’ve got to remember, that revenue will continue to grow month on month as more cars are being made, and YoY it will be even more as more cars adopt SCALA3 and it eventually becomes industry standard….and that’s just Valeo.
Valeo supply 1/3 of all sensors to the automotive industry.
Stellantis has also said they will use Valeos SCALA3.

Stellantis to use Valeo lidar for Level 3 self-driving cars from 2024

Stellantis' first generation of 'hands-free, eyes-off' self-driving cars will use Valeo's Scala lidar systems.

europe.autonews.com

If we combine Valeo, renesas, megachips, few others hiding in the background? Maybe within 18 months Brainchip could be receiving $100 million plus.

Any idea how much Scala3 costs Jesse? I'm thinking $1B in orders is just the tip of the iceberg. Since covid, global vehicle sales have dropped to about 90m/yr