BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Schwale]

Even if they have not signed it would be interesting to hear what they have to say on 28 March, 2023:

Machine Learning Engineering Solutions and Services

VVDN expertise in deploying trained neural networks with Neuro-technology to build cognitive intelligence in vision products for advanced decision making.

www.vvdntech.com

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

According to VVDN website they will be showcasing the below....

At ISC West, we are super excited to connect with our customers and silicon partners and talk about the exciting innovation in the domains of IoT, Vision, Cloud and Digital space.

VVDN will be showcasing its ENGINEERING, TESTING and

MANUFACTURING,

DIGITAL capabilities in

o 5G Cameras

IP, Bullet and Dome Cameras

OAI/ML Cameras

o Sports Trail and Body Worn Cameras

Dashcams

o Development Kits, Reference Designs

o Doorbell

 

[Euks]

8th most shorted on the asx…

Here’s hoping for some juicy IP deals sooner rather than later…

 

[Deleted member 2799]

We will need strong quarterlies from now on, otherwise this share price decline isn't sustainable.
Time for management and sales team to stop making promises and act on.
We have heard enough words, now let's see some action.

No, I'm not talking about partnerships, I'm talking about real, solid IP deals that's signed on.

They can keep recruiting people, but unless we see results, it's just a waste of money.

I believe two or three weeks of LDA dumping to go, what can we expect from now and before AGM? If anything at all? Hopefully not just more pain on the portfolio.

Yeah come on braini…

 

[FrederikSchack]

I see in the discussion that people seem to be very conservative or almost shy in regards to market share.

I see it a bit differently and would like to discuss this a little further, maybe I’m wrong?

As far as I can see, there are only 4 companies having anything commercially available that we can call neuromorphic.

A) Qualcomm

B) SynSense

C) GeneralVision

D)BrianChip



A) Qualcomm

Is the biggest question mark in my head, because I can’t get my head around exactly what it is that they have implemented? They were developing the Zeroth neuromorphic processor, but stopped the project and focused on a software stack instead. Now suddenly they have some similar abilities to Akida 1.0?

As far as I can see there are the following main scenarios:
1) They reopened the Zeroth project and finished the development of it.
2) They never gave up Zeroth, it was all deception and they just went into dark mode with it.
3) They used their experience with neuromorphic computing to quickly implement Brainchip IP.

So, this is in my view a flip coin that can land on the Qualcomm or Brainchip side.

They are huge in smart phones and could easily dominate edge AI in smartphones.

Besides that I don’t see them trying to sell IP, which means several things:
1) The design is not flexible to the purpose, which can be important in an era with a diversity of intelligent devices (IoT). An ADAS system might need more neuromorphic processing power and Nanose might be better off with a specialized power saving SoC.

2) Their chip has to exist besides what other chips are in the product, as it can’t be integrated. This in turn means bigger foot print, higher energy consumption and possibly slower data communication. They have very potent all-round chips, that can possibly do most of the tasks needed for many applications, but may not fulfill the low power requirements of smart home devices.

3) Competitors to Qualcomm will need to come up with a response, so they would like to integrate AI that is as/more potent and buy IP to integrate it.

B) SynSense

They have DYNAP-CNN that can be configured with up to 1 million neurons.

From what I can glean from it, they are focused on CNN models and doesn’t really support a wide range of neural networks like Akida (I think Akida supports vision transformers, RNN, DNN and SNN).

Also, it seems like they rely on back-propagation, to cite an article published on the SynSense website: “Some people approximate derivatives of spikes in order to use backpropagation (like SynSense) and some use another technique called spike timing dependent plasticity (STDP), which is closer to how biological brains function. STDP, however, is less mature as a technology (BrainChip uses this method for one–shot learning at the edge). There is also the possibility of taking deep learning CNNs (convolutional neural networks), trained by backpropagation in the normal way, and converting them to run in the spiking domain (another technique used by BrainChip).”

https://www.synsense.ai/synsense-cars-that-think-like-you-eetimes/

SyneSense does not seem to have any unsupervised learning capabilities (edge learning) or one-shot-learning like Akida.

SynSense does not seem to sell IP, but develops custom hardware. This probably means less drawbacks than Qualcomm has in this regard, but their developer team is going to be a bottleneck for wide adoption of their technology. Further considering their small size, it will be a drawback for them not to appear in eco systems like the Rensas, Megachips, ARM and Intel ecosystems.

Further SynSense may very well be hit by the US chip sanctions on China (the CHIP 4 act).

I don’t really see them capturing a big market share, but maybe I’m missing parts of the picture?

C) General Vision

In contrast to SynSense and Qualcomm, General Vision are selling IP.

The biggest neuromorphic chip I could find on their webpage has 5500 neurons…..

From my point of view I can only see General Vision capturing some very low cost focused and limited applications, maybe with volume, but not with a lot of revenue.

D) Brainchip

I like this half a year old chart that I think is made by Neuromorphia on this forum. It illustrates that we are already integrating widely and appeal to various use cases.

Brainchip Akida Ecosystem

Brainchip Akida Ecosystem Technology Partners, IP Licensees, Enablement Partners, Implementation, Collaborating, Using Brainchip, Engagements and Speculation Technology Partners 1 Arm BrainChip Joins Arm AI Partner Program 2 Intel Foundry Services BrainChip Joins Intel Foundry...

thestockexchange.com.au

When looking at the pure plays Synsense, General Vision and Brainchip, we’re clearly the talk of the town, here from Google Trends:

Conclusion:

It’s hard to put a number on the future potential neuromorphic market share, but I think 10%-20% is underwhelmingly low considering the above. What do you think?

 

[alwaysgreen]

One thing I know there is going to be a lot of pissed off shareholders at the AGM,I think the shorters are the same ones who voted against PVDM at the last AGM. Sean said judge him by the next AGM,me thinks he is in trouble,someone is definitely out to destroy shareholder value for their own purpose.One would reasonably expect shorts to be closing but no,increasing strangely every day,may be they are in that deep they can’t get out I’m hoping end game may be takeover or controlled of board. Problem is I think average shareholder buy in is lower than they expected. Holding 200k and 86k worth in my super ain’t getting one share off me,don’t care how low they go,hopefully digging a deeper hole,all or nothing my motto

With no new IP deals, it's almost a certainty that our next quarterly will be poor. I have no idea how shorters think but it seems safe to say that they are hoping to lower the share price further post release of the quarterly.

Hopefully we can announce a few IP deals prior to the quarterly release to burn them.

 

[fenfei]

We will need strong quarterlies from now on, otherwise this share price decline isn't sustainable.
Time for management and sales team to stop making promises and act on.
We have heard enough words, now let's see some action.

No, I'm not talking about partnerships, I'm talking about real, solid IP deals that's signed on.

They can keep recruiting people, but unless we see results, it's just a waste of money.

I believe two or three weeks of LDA dumping to go, what can we expect from now and before AGM? If anything at all? Hopefully not just more pain on the portfolio.

Totally agree with you!

 

[Deleted member 118]

I wonder the sp is so low, but accumulated short volume doesn't decrease. What price are those shorters waiting for? It look like they are not hurry to realise profit at current price.

 

[Csharmo]

Spent my primary school years in Parkes.. Good memories

Me too, I grew up in Parkes

 

[Deleted member 118]

With no new IP deals, it's almost a certainty that our next quarterly will be poor. I have no idea how shorters think but it seems safe to say that they are hoping to lower the share price further post release of the quarterly.

Hopefully we can announce a few IP deals prior to the quarterly release to burn them.

One ip deal in the next 2 years would be nice

 

[Labsy]

Respectfully, I couldn't care less about the shorters or the sp..... I honestly feel management are doing great. Let's not direct so much anger towards the team and enter the AGM looking for battle...
If you are uncomfortable with the level of risk you are taking then step off the bus and that's ok.
Personally I feel this is de-risked considerably and applying some patience whilst investing within your comfort zone is key.
Financial advise 101... what is your risk profile and how much can you afford to lock away without it burdening your personal daily financial needs?
Chin up people... nearly there now.... hooooooooold.....hoooooooooold.........

 

[Deleted member 118]

Me too, I grew up in Parkes

I never grew up in parkes, but use to play a lot of soccer in them

 

[Steve10]

I see in the discussion that people seem to be very conservative or almost shy in regards to market share.

I see it a bit differently and would like to discuss this a little further, maybe I’m wrong?

As far as I can see, there are only 4 companies having anything commercially available that we can call neuromorphic.

A) Qualcomm

B) SynSense

C) GeneralVision

D)BrianChip



A) Qualcomm

Is the biggest question mark in my head, because I can’t get my head around exactly what it is that they have implemented? They were developing the Zeroth neuromorphic processor, but stopped the project and focused on a software stack instead. Now suddenly they have some similar abilities to Akida 1.0?

As far as I can see there are the following main scenarios:
1) They reopened the Zeroth project and finished the development of it.
2) They never gave up Zeroth, it was all deception and they just went into dark mode with it.
3) They used their experience with neuromorphic computing to quickly implement Brainchip IP.

So, this is in my view a flip coin that can land on the Qualcomm or Brainchip side.

They are huge in smart phones and could easily dominate edge AI in smartphones.

Besides that I don’t see them trying to sell IP, which means several things:
1) The design is not flexible to the purpose, which can be important in an era with a diversity of intelligent devices (IoT). An ADAS system might need more neuromorphic processing power and Nanose might be better off with a specialized power saving SoC.

2) Their chip has to exist besides what other chips are in the product, as it can’t be integrated. This in turn means bigger foot print, higher energy consumption and possibly slower data communication. They have very potent all-round chips, that can possibly do most of the tasks needed for many applications, but may not fulfill the low power requirements of smart home devices.

3) Competitors to Qualcomm will need to come up with a response, so they would like to integrate AI that is as/more potent and buy IP to integrate it.

B) SynSense

They have DYNAP-CNN that can be configured with up to 1 million neurons.

From what I can glean from it, they are focused on CNN models and doesn’t really support a wide range of neural networks like Akida (I think Akida supports vision transformers, RNN, DNN and SNN).

Also, it seems like they rely on back-propagation, to cite an article published on the SynSense website: “Some people approximate derivatives of spikes in order to use backpropagation (like SynSense) and some use another technique called spike timing dependent plasticity (STDP), which is closer to how biological brains function. STDP, however, is less mature as a technology (BrainChip uses this method for one–shot learning at the edge). There is also the possibility of taking deep learning CNNs (convolutional neural networks), trained by backpropagation in the normal way, and converting them to run in the spiking domain (another technique used by BrainChip).”

https://www.synsense.ai/synsense-cars-that-think-like-you-eetimes/

SyneSense does not seem to have any unsupervised learning capabilities (edge learning) or one-shot-learning like Akida.

SynSense does not seem to sell IP, but develops custom hardware. This probably means less drawbacks than Qualcomm has in this regard, but their developer team is going to be a bottleneck for wide adoption of their technology. Further considering their small size, it will be a drawback for them not to appear in eco systems like the Rensas, Megachips, ARM and Intel ecosystems.

Further SynSense may very well be hit by the US chip sanctions on China (the CHIP 4 act).

I don’t really see them capturing a big market share, but maybe I’m missing parts of the picture?

C) General Vision

In contrast to SynSense and Qualcomm, General Vision are selling IP.

The biggest neuromorphic chip I could find on their webpage has 5500 neurons…..

From my point of view I can only see General Vision capturing some very low cost focused and limited applications, maybe with volume, but not with a lot of revenue.

D) Brainchip

I like this half a year old chart that I think is made by Neuromorphia on this forum. It illustrates that we are already integrating widely and appeal to various use cases.

View attachment 32735

When looking at the pure plays Synsense, General Vision and Brainchip, we’re clearly the talk of the town, here from Google Trends:

View attachment 32736

Conclusion:

It’s hard to put a number on the future potential neuromorphic market share, but I think 10%-20% is underwhelmingly low considering the above. What do you think?

There's also Hailo & GrAI Matter Labs. They sell chips so will be more difficult to scale as you have mentioned.

The World’s Top Performing Edge AI Processor For Edge Devices

Hailo have developed the best performing AI processors for edge devices. Our AI accelerator chips are used for Smart City & Homes, machine learning, automotive AI, retail AI and smart factory Industry 4.0 solutions.

hailo.ai

GrAI Matter Labs | Fastest Edge AI Processor

GrAI Matter Labs has created the fastest edge AI processor for machine vision in robotics, AR/VR, drones and more. It achieves ultra-low latency at low power by leveraging sparsity.

www.graimatterlabs.ai

Akida appears to be unique with learning capabilities & IP business model can be scaled rapidly.

Akida could become the dominant processor similar to ARM due to lack of competitors & superior product.

Intel could advance their Loihi chips & IBM could advance their True North chips in a few years providing more competition along with a few new start ups should their technology prove to be as good or superior to Akida. However, Akida should have a commanding market share by the time the others catch up with their tech.

In the next few years we could probably allow 50% market share for BRN due to limited competition. Will also depend on whether or not the majority of AI applications require Akida's learning feature. There may be many basic AI applications that don't require the learning feature or vice versa.

I am being conservative with 10-20% long term market share & will not be surprised if it's much higher.

 

[Csharmo]

I never grew up in parkes, but use to play a lot of soccer in them

Wrong spelling lol

 

[Deleted member 118]

Wrong spelling lol

I know I can’t believe he spelt it with an E

 

[White Horse]

Me too, I grew up in Parkes

I grew up just down the road, in Forbes.

 

[FrederikSchack]

There's also Hailo & GrAI Matter Labs. They sell chips so will be more difficult to scale as you have mentioned.

The World’s Top Performing Edge AI Processor For Edge Devices

Hailo have developed the best performing AI processors for edge devices. Our AI accelerator chips are used for Smart City & Homes, machine learning, automotive AI, retail AI and smart factory Industry 4.0 solutions.

hailo.ai

GrAI Matter Labs | Fastest Edge AI Processor

GrAI Matter Labs has created the fastest edge AI processor for machine vision in robotics, AR/VR, drones and more. It achieves ultra-low latency at low power by leveraging sparsity.

www.graimatterlabs.ai

Akida appears to be unique with learning capabilities & IP business model can be scaled rapidly.

Akida could become the dominant processor similar to ARM due to lack of competitors & superior product.

Intel could advance their Loihi chips & IBM could advance their True North chips in a few years providing more competition along with a few new start ups should their technology prove to be as good or superior to Akida. However, Akida should have a commanding market share by the time the others catch up with their tech.

In the next few years we could probably allow 50% market share for BRN due to limited competition. Will also depend on whether or not the majority of AI applications require Akida's learning feature. There may be many basic AI applications that don't require the learning feature or vice versa.

I am being conservative with 10-20% long term market share & will not be surprised if it's much higher.

Oh, totally forgot GrAI Matter Labs and I'm not entirely updated on it.


Some years ago when I looked into Hailo, it seemed that it wasn't exactly neuromorphic, but it may be competition. I remember something about their chip depending on software that can't run on the chip?

 

[Steve10]

There's also Hailo & GrAI Matter Labs. They sell chips so will be more difficult to scale as you have mentioned.

The World’s Top Performing Edge AI Processor For Edge Devices

Hailo have developed the best performing AI processors for edge devices. Our AI accelerator chips are used for Smart City & Homes, machine learning, automotive AI, retail AI and smart factory Industry 4.0 solutions.

hailo.ai

GrAI Matter Labs | Fastest Edge AI Processor

GrAI Matter Labs has created the fastest edge AI processor for machine vision in robotics, AR/VR, drones and more. It achieves ultra-low latency at low power by leveraging sparsity.

www.graimatterlabs.ai

Akida appears to be unique with learning capabilities & IP business model can be scaled rapidly.

Akida could become the dominant processor similar to ARM due to lack of competitors & superior product.

Intel could advance their Loihi chips & IBM could advance their True North chips in a few years providing more competition along with a few new start ups should their technology prove to be as good or superior to Akida. However, Akida should have a commanding market share by the time the others catch up with their tech.

In the next few years we could probably allow 50% market share for BRN due to limited competition. Will also depend on whether or not the majority of AI applications require Akida's learning feature. There may be many basic AI applications that don't require the learning feature or vice versa.

I am being conservative with 10-20% long term market share & will not be surprised if it's much higher.

SynSense have quite a few partners including Infineon, STM, Valeo, Bosch, Thales, Philips, Facebook & Prophesee.

About Us | SynSense

SynSense focuses on neuromorphic intelligence and takes the lead in commercialization of neuromorphic chips; SynSense provides application solutions and services.

www.synsense.ai

Hailo also has quite a few partners including Dell, Foxconn, Variscite, Renesas, NXP & Socionext.

Partners Ecosystem | Hailo

hailo.ai

General Vision has only a few partners including AlfaPlus Semiconductor & Cogito Instruments.

About General Vision

General Vision mission, goals and credentials

general-vision.com

GrAI Matter Labs doesn't appear to have any partners.

SynSense & Hailo will provide some competition for BRN & General Vision to a lesser degree.

SynSense, Hailo & BRN appear to be the main players. Split 3 ways = 33.33% each. Most likely the dominant one will have 50%+ market share until more competitors enter the market. With BRN offering IP should result in faster growth & dominant market share.

 

[Fact Finder]

The Brainchip LDA Capital notification:

Sydney – 10 January 2023 – BrainChip Holdings Ltd (ASX: BRN), a leading provider of ultra-low power, high-performance AI processor technology today announced that

the company has submitted a capital call notice to LDA Capital Limited and LDA Capital LLC (LDA) to subscribe for up to 30,000,000 shares with an option for LDA to subscribe up to an additional 10,000,000 shares subject to company approval.

The terms of the Put Option Agreement between the Company and LDA were announced to ASX on 13 August 2020 and 26 October 2020 (First Amendment) and again on 13 October 2021 (Second Amendment).

The Capital Call Notice pricing period will begin upon exercise of the put option on or around 11 January, with an anticipated ending date in late March or early April, subject to adjustments based on the share price performance throughout the pricing period.

The issue price for the capital call shares will be 91.5% of the higher of the average daily VWAP of shares over the pricing period (subject to any applicable adjustments) and the minimum price notified to LDA Capital by the Company.

As of the date of the capital call notice, available funding under the agreement amounts to $27.9M while the company is committed to drawing down a minimum of $15 M no later than 31 December 2023.“The proceeds raised from the capital call will be used to accelerate our innovation of the groundbreaking Akida technology as we extend our industry leadership in Edge AI. In 2023 the company will tape out another chip and release significant enhancements to our IP offering”, said BrainChip CEO Sean Hehir. Mr. Hehir went on to say “Additionally, we will further expand our go-to-market capabilities by hiring sales personnel in key international markets, as well as increase our domestic sales and marketing headcount.”

So LDA Capital on about 11.1.23 commenced selling in an effort to dispose of 30 million shares at or above the minimum price notified by Brainchip.

If they sold a miserable one million shares every trading day it would take 30 days according to the mathematical genius Blind Freddie.

Today we are around 49 trading days from 11.1.23 yet we have two to three weeks of dumping still to go???

To have two to three weeks LDA Capital would need to have been selling a tiny half a million shares each trading day as this would take 60 days according to Blind Freddie.

I doubt that if every one of the last 49 days someone selling 500,000 shares to crush the price would do so particularly sprinkled over the whole trading day.

Of course sprinkled they would be as the interests of LDA Capital align with Brainchip. LDA Capital get 8.5% of the sale price and can only sell if the sale price available is above the minimum set by Brainchip.

Driving down the price below the set price would mean that LDA Capital would loose money.

This coalition of the interests of LDA Capital, Brainchip and shareholders is what distinguishes this method from every other generally employed method available for raising capital.

My opinion only DYOR
FF

AKIDA BALLISTA

 

[Slade]

Just a friendly reminder that we do have a thread dedicated to share price discussions.

Share price movement of Brainchip, discussion, The Good The good and the good only.

Yeah from a little after midday biggish purchases

thestockexchange.com.au

 

[BaconLover]

The Capital Call Notice pricing period will begin upon exercise of the put option on or around 11 January, with an anticipated ending date in late March or early April, subject to adjustments based on the share price performance throughout the pricing period.

Hopefully this should be done in a couple of weeks time. May be 3 weeks if the anticipated ending date extends to early April.

As to the share price discussions, I reckon I would discuss it here, after all it is Brainchip's share price we are discussing.
If we can discuss BRN's future possible market cap, based on PE figures, and other factors, I don't see why we cannot discuss current share price. Totally fair in my view, and I am hoping Dreddb0t agrees. Brainchip's share price is not off topic in BRN discussion thread. Especially when we discuss the ''hopeful'' share price in 2030 and beyond with huge numbers, it is always an eye opener and humbling to see what the SP actually is.