AVZ Discussion 2022

[UtterMoron]

"On 24 June 2025, the AVZ Parties and Dathcom filed a supplemental application seeking a new order against GDRC with respect to their continued non compliance with PO3, and on 18 July 2025, informed the ICSID Tribunal of the GDRC Kobold Agreement which is a breach of PO3."

It's even in the snippet you copied, AVZ is seeking a new order against GDRC in relation to their agreement with Kobold, not GDRC AND Kobolds

 

[eqtrade]

Nigel puts a tough stance on DRC and reports to ICSID every of its violations for the judges to see. Keep up the good records.
I don't think anyone would buy a house knowing it's being under some dispute.

 

[KentCStrait]

It's even in the snippet you copied, AVZ is seeking a new order against GDRC in relation to their agreement with Kobold, not GDRC AND Kobolds

Yeah, they've sort a new order against the DRC at the end of June, and then gone back on the 18th July, to report DRC and KoBold.

I remain eternally hopeful this is all going to work out. But I don't see how people can read that announcement and think all is rosy. KoBold is up to no good, just like the Chinese and DRC, they're just being a lot more sophisticated about it.

 

[Xerof]

It's even in the snippet you copied, AVZ is seeking a new order against GDRC in relation to their agreement with Kobold, not GDRC AND Kobolds

Well said UtterMoron, you are correct and he is an utter moron

 

[Exo324]

Yeah, they've sort a new order against the DRC at the end of June, and then gone back on the 18th July, to report DRC and KoBold.

I remain eternally hopeful this is all going to work out. But I don't see how people can read that announcement and think all is rosy. KoBold is up to no good, just like the Chinese and DRC, they're just being a lot more sophisticated about it.

The DRC/Kobold signing seems more to me like someone getting council approval to build before buying the land. Doesn't have to be a nefarious meaning behind it.

And it's obvious in the Ann that AVZ reported the GDRC Kobold Agreement (here I bolded it for you), to be in breach of the ICSID ruling against THE DRC (and not Kobold).

But of course, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

 

[KentCStrait]

But of course, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

I never said KoBold was a named party in the arbitration. What I said - and what AVZ’s announcement confirms - is that KoBold’s deal with the DRC is the reason AVZ went back to ICSID on July 18. That’s not my “interpretation.” It’s verbatim:

“…and on 18 July 2025, informed the ICSID Tribunal of the GDRC Kobold Agreement which is a breach of PO3.”

That’s not how a friendly, cooperative deal gets handled. That’s a breach notification. And it completely undermines this idea that everything is sunshine and backroom handshakes.

I’ve said before—and I’ll say again—I hope it all works out. I want my money back. I want us all properly compensated. I've been very consistent about that. But let’s not pretend KoBold signing onto disputed ground is business as usual.

And finally—if anyone here wants to call me a moron, accuse me of being a puppet, or throw personal insults instead of engaging with the facts: go for it. It says more about you than me.

 

[Exo324]

I never said KoBold was a named party in the arbitration. What I said - and what AVZ’s announcement confirms - is that KoBold’s deal with the DRC is the reason AVZ went back to ICSID on July 18. That’s not my “interpretation.” It’s verbatim:

“…and on 18 July 2025, informed the ICSID Tribunal of the GDRC Kobold Agreement which is a breach of PO3.”

That’s not how a friendly, cooperative deal gets handled. That’s a breach notification. And it completely undermines this idea that everything is sunshine and backroom handshakes.

I’ve said before—and I’ll say again—I hope it all works out. I want my money back. I want us all properly compensated. I've been very consistent about that. But let’s not pretend KoBold signing onto disputed ground is business as usual.

And finally—if anyone here wants to call me a moron, accuse me of being a puppet, or throw personal insults instead of engaging with the facts: go for it. It says more about you than me.

Ok let me spell it out for you

AVZ's leverage in this situation is ICSID and holding the DRC accountable to their rulings, 'going full steam ahead'. They postponed the June hearing out of goodwill - and that got us nothing and should be the last time we make concessions. AVZ should very much be applying as much pressure on DRC as possible, using the ICSID stick.

Dropping this at the 11th hour just because we're in talks with KoBold would be daft. Whether the talks between AVZ and the suitor (kobold or otherwise) is going well or not, AVZ should 100% be applying as much pressure and upholding the legitimacy of ICSID and their rights to the Manono until the ink has dried and the money is in our account.

Management is doing all the right things here and playing their part. IMO this does not reveal whatsoever how the negotiations are going. Even if we come out with a deal with KoBold signed tomorrow, this was the right move to make.

 

[KentCStrait]

Ok let me spell it out for you

AVZ's leverage in this situation is ICSID and holding the DRC accountable to their rulings, 'going full steam ahead'. They postponed the June hearing out of goodwill - and that got us nothing and should be the last time we make concessions. AVZ should very much be applying as much pressure on DRC as possible, using the ICSID stick.

Dropping this at the 11th hour just because we're in talks with KoBold would be daft. Whether the talks between AVZ and the suitor (kobold or otherwise) is going well or not, AVZ should 100% be applying as much pressure and upholding the legitimacy of ICSID and their rights to the Manono until the ink has dried and the money is in our account.

Management is doing all the right things here and playing their part. IMO this does not reveal whatsoever how the negotiations are going. Even if we come out with a deal with KoBold signed tomorrow, this was the right move to make.

I agree with most of this.

AVZ’s leverage is ICSID, and reporting the GDRC–KoBold agreement as a breach was 100% the right move. Postponing the June hearing got us nowhere—so yes, no more goodwill gestures.

Where we might differ is tone, not substance. I’m not saying AVZ should walk away or blow things up. What I am saying is: signing a public agreement to develop Manono—on land AVZ is fighting to defend—without involving AVZ, and in breach of ICSID orders, is not a neutral act. It’s calculated.

So yes—AVZ should absolutely keep the pressure on. But we also shouldn’t pretend KoBold’s move was harmless or friendly. It was strategic—and possibly hostile. I certainly lean towards hostile. That doesn’t mean we won’t get a deal, but we need to keep our eyes open until the money lands.

 

[M.Bison]

I never said KoBold was a named party in the arbitration. What I said - and what AVZ’s announcement confirms - is that KoBold’s deal with the DRC is the reason AVZ went back to ICSID on July 18. That’s not my “interpretation.” It’s verbatim:

“…and on 18 July 2025, informed the ICSID Tribunal of the GDRC Kobold Agreement which is a breach of PO3.”

That’s not how a friendly, cooperative deal gets handled. That’s a breach notification. And it completely undermines this idea that everything is sunshine and backroom handshakes.

I’ve said before—and I’ll say again—I hope it all works out. I want my money back. I want us all properly compensated. I've been very consistent about that. But let’s not pretend KoBold signing onto disputed ground is business as usual.

And finally—if anyone here wants to call me a moron, accuse me of being a puppet, or throw personal insults instead of engaging with the facts: go for it. It says more about you than me.

"I think you and Jongo need to go back and re-read. We've reported KoBold to ICSID"

 

[Strongman]

The DRC/Kobold signing seems more to me like someone getting council approval to build before buying the land. Doesn't have to be a nefarious meaning behind it.

And it's obvious in the Ann that AVZ reported the GDRC Kobold Agreement (here I bolded it for you), to be in breach of the ICSID ruling against THE DRC (and not Kobold).

But of course, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Perfectly stated Exo. At this time AVZ has two things. First and foremost is the ICC and ICSID cases. If Nigel and DLA Piper had not notified ICSID of the DRC/ Kobold agreement then we would all have to be deeply worried. Ticking every box in our litigation case which s exactly what they need to do. To try and read more in to this and say Kobold are tryin to rat fuck us is just bullshit
Secondly we have the sale agreement framework with Kobold and iam 100 % sure that as part of the process Kobold needs to deal with the DRC ( including snakeman Kibeya) . Once again we would all need to be deeply worried if this step had not been taken
As far as i can see everything is coming together at i believe a very rapid pace considering the geopolitical situation we are immersed in

 

[Exo324]

What I am saying is: signing a public agreement to develop Manono—on land AVZ is fighting to defend—without involving AVZ, and in breach of ICSID orders, is not a neutral act. It’s calculated.

The DRC has maintained the same stance throughout this fiasco and is not acknowledging AVZ at all - they’ve not strayed from this. And it’s clear to see they have to continue this charade in public, lest acknowledging our legitimacy and their rampant corruption.

Win win for everyone is AVZ being paid off and DRC having their corruption swept under the rug. This has been obvious for some time now. It is the suitor/kobolds job to navigate between these 2 entities so everyone ends up a winner - us with our $$ back and DRC with plausible deniability.

Given the DRC publicly refuses to even utter AVZs name, there’s no chance they will sit down and hash this out between all 3 parties.

I don’t see Kobold as all innocent either - they’re trying to get the best deal for themselves and posture as our only saving grace by pre-emptively signing this agreement - blind Freddy can see that. Everyone operates in their best interest and I don’t believe they will pay a cent over what they feel they need to.

Time will tell if they offer up a price that management agree to or another US entity muscles their way in.

 

[Dave Evans]

I'm only skimming over this announcement on my break but it seems to me we've still got CATH to contend with which is one of the ongoing complications.

"Whilst AVZ was not involved in the drafting nor is a party to the GDRC Kobold Agreement, it remains open to constructive dialogue with the parties, to agree a suitable commercial outcome for AVZ shareholders, where its legal rights and existing commercial relationships are respected."

You always seem to pick up on things that others miss Sam. Kobold’s Director General in the DRC (Benjamin Katabuka) who signed this latest agreement with the DRC used to be the General Manager at the Kisanfu Mine in the DRC which is owned by CATL and CMOC. You would have to imagine that CATH are somewhere in the picture, and I always thought their offer to us to be a partner with them in a hydroxide processing plant was a great strategy

 

[SilentOne]

Off topic but Geo is MIA. Not seen since May 10 on here. I spoke to him once. He was an elderly gent (I don’t think he would mind me saying that as he offered up his age - I just can’t remember it due to mine).

Anyway, hope he is ok. Anyone in contact with him?

I sent a text to see how he was going a few weeks ago and had no response - I will give him a call during the week and touch base.

 

[Uglybob]

I find it so baffling that Kobold are so open and media driven with this potential takeover. Generally it's all secret squirrel stuff, but they have ben the exact opposite the whole time. It's like they are on the back foot, they know it and are trying to overcompensate by making a big deal about every little meaningless step along the way (non binding agreement from a month back anyone).

I guess I'll just continue to wait it out like ever other pleb on here.

 

[Earlyspeed]

The Kobold/DRCG agreement from last week I'm sure mentioned that one of Kobold's responsibilities was to make AVZ whole to resolve legal issues? I'm not sure if this was in the text of the agreement or commentary from a Kobold Officer? I'm not sure Kobold have any other way to minimise the risk around their potential purchase than to pursue such an agreement. The DRCG are so far up to their neck in a legal sense, contravening another ICSID directive is the least of their worries. They are likely thinking Kobold will be making this all go away anyway. AVZ have no choice but to tick the legal boxes, report the contravention and continue on with the current strategy. Its interesting that today's announcement confirms other interest in the project. Hopefully this will maximise our return. Good luck to all holders!

 

[Penskefile]

I agree with most of this.

AVZ’s leverage is ICSID, and reporting the GDRC–KoBold agreement as a breach was 100% the right move. Postponing the June hearing got us nowhere—so yes, no more goodwill gestures.

Where we might differ is tone, not substance. I’m not saying AVZ should walk away or blow things up. What I am saying is: signing a public agreement to develop Manono—on land AVZ is fighting to defend—without involving AVZ, and in breach of ICSID orders, is not a neutral act. It’s calculated.

So yes—AVZ should absolutely keep the pressure on. But we also shouldn’t pretend KoBold’s move was harmless or friendly. It was strategic—and possibly hostile. I certainly lean towards hostile. That doesn’t mean we won’t get a deal, but we need to keep our eyes open until the money lands.

100% agreed.
It was Kobold’s warning to AVZ that they’re balls-deep in partnership negotiations with our enemies so don’t fuck that up by trying to put them into a bidding war with their competitors.

 

[KentCStrait]

I find it so baffling that Kobold are so open and media driven with this potential takeover. Generally it's all secret squirrel stuff, but they have ben the exact opposite the whole time. It's like they are on the back foot, they know it and are trying to overcompensate by making a big deal about every little meaningless step along the way (non binding agreement from a month back anyone).

They’re not a traditional mining major. They’re a Silicon Valley startup backed by Gates and Bezos, still chasing funding, and they need to look like they’re locking down flagship assets to justify the hype and bring in more capital.

All this talk of “AI-powered exploration”? Mostly marketing spin. It’s crafted to impress investors and convince tech-illiterate governments to hand over critical mineral rights. A decade ago, they’d have said they were using blockchain and crypto to mine lithium.

That’s why they’re pumping out headlines over non-binding agreements, doing media tours, and signing public MoUs on contested ground. It’s not just geopolitics—it’s branding. They want to be seen as the ones who “fixed Manono”—not because it resolves the dispute, but because it sells a narrative for their next raise.

Worth noting: KoBold has never developed, built, or operated a mine. Zero production track record. Ironically, that was one of the slurs thrown at AVZ by the DRC and Zijin—yet AVZ actually has more experience and credibility on the ground than KoBold ever has.

But hey—as long as they pay up, I don’t care. Just sign the cheque and walk away heroes.

 

[JNRB]

I am glad NF still playing hardball in every way he can.

But

You can't sign an agreement saying you intend to sell a resource to someone and then get upset when they sign an agreement saying they intend to develop that asset.

So good to keep maximum pressure on but I'm still cautiously optimistic. KoBold is juggling a lot of variables in this M4S deal so not surprising they want a little more certainty from the DRC Government. Speaking of: the second party in this agreement is the DRC gov, which means ultimately it's hardly worth the paper it's written on.

The way I see it: the more KoBold pre-commit themselves to buying Manono without agreed price, and the more they tie it up in other bigger geopolitical issues and movements, the more power we have to demand an appropriate price. Either KoBold is trying to box out other bidders, or they genuinely have the cash (we know they do) and want to just get this thing happening as fast as possible with as much certainty as possible (we know they do).

Still, all a bit confusing.

My biggest question remains: why does the DRC need to appoint a special envoy to facilitate the transaction, and why that's only happening now.

 

[Penskefile]

I find it so baffling that Kobold are so open and media driven with this potential takeover. Generally it's all secret squirrel stuff, but they have ben the exact opposite the whole time. It's like they are on the back foot, they know it and are trying to overcompensate by making a big deal about every little meaningless step along the way (non binding agreement from a month back anyone).

I guess I'll just continue to wait it out like ever other pleb on here.

Unless Nigel has access to the Epstein files, we have little other choice but to take whatever Kobold has to offer us.

I’ll see myself out

 

[wombat74]

I am glad NF still playing hardball in every way he can.

But

You can't sign an agreement saying you intend to sell a resource to someone and then get upset when they sign an agreement saying they intend to develop that asset.

So good to keep maximum pressure on but I'm still cautiously optimistic. KoBold is juggling a lot of variables in this M4S deal so not surprising they want a little more certainty from the DRC Government. Speaking of: the second party in this agreement is the DRC gov, which means ultimately it's hardly worth the paper it's written on.

The way I see it: the more KoBold pre-commit themselves to buying Manono without agreed price, and the more they tie it up in other bigger geopolitical issues and movements, the more power we have to demand an appropriate price. Either KoBold is trying to box out other bidders, or they genuinely have the cash (we know they do) and want to just get this thing happening as fast as possible with as much certainty as possible (we know they do).

Still, all a bit confusing.

My biggest question remains: why does the DRC need to appoint a special envoy to facilitate the transaction, and why that's only happening now.

That's sounds very plausible . Completely understandable Kobold want reassurance before they fork out $$Billions to AVZ . However is there any reason why Kobold wouldn't inform AVZ of their intentions prior to signing with the DRC ? No, Kobold are playing smart bastards . Trying to make AVZ cave into their lowball offer . Nigel now giving them a polite F--k You C--ts!