AVZ Discussion 2022

[Jongo]

The fact that DLA Piper is assisting AVZ is comforting. I asked Copilot the following question.

"How good is DLA Piper at negotiating a favourable settlement in cases similar to the AVZ scenario, give examples."

The answer is good ...

"DLA Piper is widely regarded as one of the top global law firms for handling complex cross-border disputes, including investment treaty arbitration and mining sector negotiations—both highly relevant to the AVZ scenario.

While specific case outcomes are often confidential, here’s what we can draw from public records and their track record:

Strengths Relevant to AVZ’s Case

• Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS): DLA Piper has represented both investors and states in ICSID and UNCITRAL arbitrations. Their experience includes disputes over expropriation, mining licenses, and regulatory interference—core issues in AVZ’s claim against the DRC.
• Mining & Energy Sector Expertise: The firm has advised on resource nationalization disputes, joint venture breakdowns, and permit revocations, often in Africa and Latin America.
• Settlement Strategy: DLA Piper emphasizes early dispute resolution where possible, using mediation, structured negotiations, and hybrid settlement frameworks—similar to the KoBold-AVZ framework.

Notable Examples

• Vedanta Resources v. Zambia: DLA Piper advised Vedanta in a dispute over the seizure of a copper mine. The case involved ICSID arbitration and complex negotiations with the Zambian government.
• Tethyan Copper Company v. Pakistan: While not directly involved, DLA Piper has cited this case in its publications as a benchmark for large-scale mining arbitration, showcasing their familiarity with billion-dollar claims.
• Confidential African Mining Dispute: In a matter involving a revoked mining license in West Africa, DLA Piper reportedly helped secure a favorable settlement through a combination of arbitration and diplomatic engagement.

Implications for AVZ
Given DLA Piper’s deep bench of arbitration specialists, sector-specific knowledge, and experience navigating political risk, they are well-positioned to negotiate a favorable outcome for AVZ—whether through a KoBold-facilitated settlement or a full ICSID ruling.

Would you like a breakdown of how DLA Piper might structure a hybrid settlement in this context?"

 

[cruiser51]

Kerr knows Africa ..... View attachment 87630

If he is now AVZ's CEO, wait till he adds the DRC to his CV.

 

[cruiser51]

Well $12 is a possibility so $6 is a lay-down misère!!

I hate to guess a price, so pointless.
We just have to wait and see how the ICSID verdict will be worded.

If Felix is trying to pull a shonky with Donald, he has shit for brains.
For Felix to put CKK on his advisory team might prove to be an extremely bloody stupid move, to be so fucking obvious with his intentions.
He highly likely thinks he is operating on the DRC scene only and is dealing with dickheads.

He might have forgotten that only 6 months ago he went on his knees to Trump, begging to save his sorry ass. Now after the negotiations he seems to be breathing easier and got a little of his dazzling behaviour back.

I love to see him squealing when Donald puts his testicles in a nutcracker and applies a little pressure.
Some people are suffering from convenient short memory syndrome and can do with a short sharp rerun through memory lane.

 

[wombat74]

In case you haven't had time this morning to give yourself a paper cut and squeeze lemon juice on it, here's the latest morale-booster as a quick pick-me-up.

Thank me later.

View attachment 87633

Can you imagine being a 10 year old child the night before Christmas every night for the last 3 years ? Only to wake up every morning to find Santa didn't leave you any presents . Not only that . Santa took a dump on the living room rug and stole your bicycle . Welcome to the world of an AVZ share holder with millions of shares .

 

[Mute22]

I'm just happy to strap-in, wait out the next few weeks and see where we are post US agreement signings.

 

[LEFOOL]

Anybody speak French?



Curious what the guy at 2:20 is on about, autotranslate is unreliable.

Not sure if he is just unpacking an article verbatim, or he is giving a local perspective.

Okay so i thought it would be easy for me to translate but fuck me... that guy is so angry i find it hard to understand wtf he's on about.. also he switches to some local dialect at some point and throws in random French words... anyway that's all i can get..

'' He welcomed them, and was very nice to them, and they were very much impressed by President Felix's welcome. President Felix gave them his blessing and said 'everything will be fine'. "
then he mentions AVZ and switches to his angry dialect cant help much more...


Also the bit where he mentions Kobold he's angry that Kobold were the ones making announcement about Manono and not the DRC governement..

Wait i've watched a bit more and he switches back to French. His problem is that according to him when the yanks (kobold/US representatives?) visited DRC they spoke to Felix and were very happy with the possible deal, but then when DRC sent a delegation to Washington that delegation said differents things that those that were talked about in DRC..

then he says that Felix's boys messed up big time as he says there's microphones everywhere and he's heard conversation where some Felix's boys were rude to some lady from AVZ (???) and made her cry she wanted to resign.. (????)

He teh says that he will personally speak to Felix about this matter.......

 

[Mute22]

Okay so i thought it would be easy for me to translate but fuck me... that guy is so angry i find it hard to understand wtf he's on about.. also he switches to some local dialect at some point and throws in random French words... anyway that's all i can get..

'' He welcomed them, and was very nice to them, and they were very much impressed by President Felix's welcome. President Felix gave them his blessing and said 'everything will be fine'. "
then he mentions AVZ and switches to his angry dialect cant help much more...

Yeah looking into it, he seems to just be a content farmer (reading random articles / outrage baiting) with Alex Jones style rants.

Not sure it's worth the trouble, although he seems to a decent audience on FB streams in the DRC.

EDIT:

Wait i've watched a bit more and he switches back to French. His problem is that according to him when the yanks (kobold/US representatives?) visited DRC they spoke to Felix and were very happy with the possible deal, but then when DRC sent a delegation to Washington that delegation said differents things that those that were talked about in DRC..

then he says that Felix's boys messed up big time as he says there's microphones everywhere and he's heard conversation where some Felix's boys were rude to some lady from AVZ (???) and made her cry she wanted to resign.. (????)

WTF, now I want to know the whole translation!

 

[Roon]

No-one fucks with The Great Man, and those who’ve attempted to have had their asses handed to them.

In Trump We Trust

though your repeated slavering over Trump is pretty cringeworthy, I did offer to give him a happy ending should our issues be resolved so perhaps I'm not one to talk

 

[LOCKY82]

Can you imagine being a 10 year old child the night before Christmas every night for the last 3 years ? Only to wake up every morning to find Santa didn't leave you any presents . Not only that . Santa took a dump on the living room rug and stole your bicycle . Welcome to the world of an AVZ share holder with millions of shares .

No presents! And Santa drinking your beer and having his way with your missus!

 

[Retrobyte]

No presents! And Santa drinking your beer and having his way with your missus!

And his reindeer gang bang your cat

 

[Strongman]

And his reindeer gang bang your cat

Haha ...is it Friday already ?

 

[Dave Evans]

Yeah looking into it, he seems to just be a content farmer (reading random articles / outrage baiting) with Alex Jones style rants.

Not sure it's worth the trouble, although he seems to a decent audience on FB streams in the DRC.

EDIT:



WTF, now I want to know the whole translation!

Mute, open it in YouTube change the translation to English and you can read the English subtitles as he talks. It’s not hard, I just got too bored to be bothered listening to his rambling. It was just like the ramblings Mills Tshibangu used to do when he was bullshitting about being arrested and saying he knew where the the $20million from the escrow account held in Lukusa’s name went. They are so backward and corrupt that they just lie and think that shouting will make people believe their bullshit

 

[j.l]

Haha ...is it Friday already ?

This week, Friday isn't until Saturday...

 

[Mute22]

Mute, open it in YouTube change the translation to English and you can read the English subtitles as he talks. It’s not hard, I just got too bored to be bothered listening to his rambling. It was just like the ramblings Mills Tshibangu used to do when he was bullshitting about being arrested and saying he knew where the the $20million from the escrow account held in Lukusa’s name went. They are so backward and corrupt that they just lie and think that shouting will make people believe their bullshit

That's what I did, but auto-translate wasn't able to pickup all of the ramblings accurately. As @LEFOOL has alluded to.

 

[wombat74]

Mute, open it in YouTube change the translation to English and you can read the English subtitles as he talks. It’s not hard, I just got too bored to be bothered listening to his rambling. It was just like the ramblings Mills Tshibangu used to do when he was bullshitting about being arrested and saying he knew where the the $20million from the escrow account held in Lukusa’s name went. They are so backward and corrupt that they just lie and think that shouting will make people believe their bullshit

You forgot the chronic hand gesturing . They all do it . It's a dead give away they are lying through their teeth .

 

[LOCKY82]

You forgot the chronic hand gesturing . They all do it . It's a dead give away they are lying through there teeth .

And when their lips are moving

 

[Strongman]

This week, Friday isn't until Saturday...

Yeah speaking of which, where in the world is the signing of the peace accord meant to be taking place ?
Hopefully by Saturday morning we get some good news.

 

[Mining8]

I hate to guess a price, so pointless.
We just have to wait and see how the ICSID verdict will be worded.

If Felix is trying to pull a shonky with Donald, he has shit for brains.
For Felix to put CKK on his advisory team might prove to be an extremely bloody stupid move, to be so fucking obvious with his intentions.
He highly likely thinks he is operating on the DRC scene only and is dealing with dickheads.

He might have forgotten that only 6 months ago he went on his knees to Trump, begging to save his sorry ass. Now after the negotiations he seems to be breathing easier and got a little of his dazzling behaviour back.

I love to see him squealing when Donald puts his testicles in a nutcracker and applies a little pressure.
Some people are suffering from convenient short memory syndrome and can do with a short sharp rerun through memory lane.

Don’t mess with the Don:

I hate to guess a price, so pointless.
We just have to wait and see how the ICSID verdict will be worded.

If Felix is trying to pull a shonky with Donald, he has shit for brains.
For Felix to put CKK on his advisory team might prove to be an extremely bloody stupid move, to be so fucking obvious with his intentions.
He highly likely thinks he is operating on the DRC scene only and is dealing with dickheads.

He might have forgotten that only 6 months ago he went on his knees to Trump, begging to save his sorry ass. Now after the negotiations he seems to be breathing easier and got a little of his dazzling behaviour back.

I love to see him squealing when Donald puts his testicles in a nutcracker and applies a little pressure.
Some people are suffering from convenient short memory syndrome and can do with a short sharp rerun through memory lane.

 

[cruiser51]

Anybody speak French?



Curious what the guy at 2:20 is on about, autotranslate is unreliable.

Not sure if he is just unpacking an article verbatim, or he is giving a local perspective.

What i understand, the DRC is angry about 2 things and the guy is pissed off that the DRC sent a team to Washington which created the usual DRC/Felix circus. From which Felix can back track and say 'I don't know nothing'.

The 2 things the DRC is angry about:

1 the ICSID proceedings resume

2 Kobold was/is going to buy all AVZ's shares, thereby circumventing the rules the DRC aka Cominière was farting on about that they had first right of refusal.

It is simple, the same ruling applies as the sale of Phillips Senegal ltd pty to Woodside, there is simply no right of first refusal, FAR had to find that out via an ICC ruling.
So, everything AVZ becomes Cobold, so POQ Cominière wankers.

What they now understand, if Kobold buys AVZ as a company, there is Jack shit the DRC can do, but they are going to deal with the owners of AVZ, being Kobold.

Anyhow that is what I understand out of his waffling.

 

[Mute22]

What i understand, the DRC is angry about 2 things and the guy is pissed off that the DRC sent a team to Washington which created the usual DRC/Felix circus. From which Felix can back track and say 'I don't know nothing'.

The 2 things the DRC is angry about:

1 the ICSID proceedings resume

2 Kobold was/is going to buy all AVZ's shares, thereby circumventing the rules the DRC aka Cominière was farting on about that they had first right of refusal.

It is simple, the same ruling applies as the sale of Phillips Senegal ltd pty to Woodside, there is simply no right of first refusal, FAR had to find that out via an ICC ruling.
So, everything AVZ becomes Cobold, so POQ Cominière wankers.

What they now understand, if Kobold buys AVZ as a company, there is Jack shit the DRC can do, but they are going to deal with the owners of AVZ, being Kobold.

Anyhow that is what I understand out of his waffling.

Because I love you all, here is a translated transcript, obviously there will be some elements lost in translation from auto-translate + AI.

Interesting part is from 02:32 onwards, shocking if true and really highlights how different state actors are working against even Felix's interests.

00:02
Hello. A dramatic twist in the Manono lithium saga. The Australian company AVZ Minerals is resuming legal proceedings against the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo), despite a framework agreement signed in May with the American company, Cobold Metals. What happened?
Back in May, an agreement was reached. AVZ suspended its complaint with ICSID (International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes), the body responsible for resolving disputes between investors and states, to allow for negotiations regarding the strategic lithium project in Manono. But on June 24, AVZ announced: "We are resuming the legal battle."

00:39
Why? Because, according to AVZ, the DRC did not engage in discussions during the suspension period. What is AVZ claiming? Since 2023, the company has contested the Congolese authorities' refusal to grant a mining license. It still hopes to assert its rights over the southern portion of the deposit, which Cobold wants to acquire.
But the other half of the site is already in the hands of Chinese company Zijin Mining, thanks to an agreement signed with the Congolese state-owned company Cominière. AVZ is also suing Cominière for breach of partnership.

01:16
Two parallel legal actions, but one single issue: control over one of the world’s largest lithium deposits.
This is unfolding just as the DRC and the U.S. are implementing their strategic agreement on critical minerals and security. Cobold, backed by American funding, hoped to secure the Manono project under this framework. But with the arbitration resuming, the legal climate is darkening, and Cobold’s ambitions may be slowed.

01:51
The renewed confrontation between AVZ and the DRC risks destabilizing the fragile balance among foreign partners, the Congolese enterprise, and the state itself. The stakes are enormous. Who will exploit Congolese lithium in the coming years—and under what conditions?
To be continued.


02:32
They were warmly received and impressed by President Tshisekedi’s welcome. The President gave his agreement so that everything could proceed without issue.
Congo and Washington—because the mining license had complications, Congo was being asked for $10 billion, likely to settle for $5 billion after judgment in Washington.


03:40
It should have been the Congolese government announcing this—not Cobold—because it is their country allowing these actors in.
Washington Group—I'll tell you something. President’s team received AVZ in Kinshasa on April 1. The President was very kind and gave clear and firm instructions.
They were very happy and impressed. But when they returned to Washington, the Congolese delegation contradicted what the President had said. He had said A, and they were now saying B. That’s my big issue.


04:19
A president cannot give his word (A), and then his team says something else (B). This is the U.S.-Congo pilot project. Even Bill Gates got involved.
This isn’t personal, I’m just speaking generally.
The behavior of President Tshisekedi’s group in Washington was disastrous.


05:15
They got into a shouting match with AVZ representatives. Tshisekedi’s people scolded them, and it escalated. I was even contacted. They don’t realize the State Department meetings are recorded.
They scolded a woman from AVZ—she cried and considered resigning.
No basic courtesy. They acted like bosses.
They even tried to suggest replacing AVZ with another company. AVZ got angry and threatened to sell its rights elsewhere.


06:34
That’s why the first person thanked was Secretary Mike Rubio. I shared that, didn’t I? In Kinshasa, ask yourselves—what did we do to that woman?
If you won’t speak up, I will tell the President. She nearly resigned. Mike had to intervene to stop it. That’s why Cobold later tried to distance themselves from this.


They want to build infrastructure, create jobs—60% Congolese—support local communities, and succeed in transforming the industry in Congo.
If you don’t cooperate, they’ll go develop it in Rwanda.


08:12
Congo is chaos. You never bring the right people to the table. We’re shocked by your behavior.
In America, we don’t operate like you do in Congo. Over there, people tolerate anything.


"Do you know who I am?"—is that how we act? No.
In work, we don’t care who you are—not the brother, sister, cousin, adviser, or minister of Tshisekedi. It doesn’t matter.


08:35
Your bad habits from Mobutu and Kabila—don’t bring that to Tshisekedi. He’ll fire all of you. These are revelations. He’ll have no choice.


09:19
And understand this: these Americans, their number one goal is to remove China.
That group wanted to bring in the Chinese, but the Americans saw through it.
That’s why Cobold, backed by Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, said: “No, we’re buying all of AVZ’s shares.”
If we had smarter people, we could have thought through all the rights AVZ had.

 

[LEFOOL]

Because I love you all, here is a translated transcript, obviously there will be some elements lost in translation from auto-translate + AI.

Interesting part is from 02:32 onwards, shocking if true and really highlights how different state actors are working against even Felix's interests.

00:02
Hello. A dramatic twist in the Manono lithium saga. The Australian company AVZ Minerals is resuming legal proceedings against the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo), despite a framework agreement signed in May with the American company, Cobold Metals. What happened?
Back in May, an agreement was reached. AVZ suspended its complaint with ICSID (International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes), the body responsible for resolving disputes between investors and states, to allow for negotiations regarding the strategic lithium project in Manono. But on June 24, AVZ announced: "We are resuming the legal battle."

00:39
Why? Because, according to AVZ, the DRC did not engage in discussions during the suspension period. What is AVZ claiming? Since 2023, the company has contested the Congolese authorities' refusal to grant a mining license. It still hopes to assert its rights over the southern portion of the deposit, which Cobold wants to acquire.
But the other half of the site is already in the hands of Chinese company Zijin Mining, thanks to an agreement signed with the Congolese state-owned company Cominière. AVZ is also suing Cominière for breach of partnership.

01:16
Two parallel legal actions, but one single issue: control over one of the world’s largest lithium deposits.
This is unfolding just as the DRC and the U.S. are implementing their strategic agreement on critical minerals and security. Cobold, backed by American funding, hoped to secure the Manono project under this framework. But with the arbitration resuming, the legal climate is darkening, and Cobold’s ambitions may be slowed.

01:51
The renewed confrontation between AVZ and the DRC risks destabilizing the fragile balance among foreign partners, the Congolese enterprise, and the state itself. The stakes are enormous. Who will exploit Congolese lithium in the coming years—and under what conditions?
To be continued.


02:32
They were warmly received and impressed by President Tshisekedi’s welcome. The President gave his agreement so that everything could proceed without issue.
Congo and Washington—because the mining license had complications, Congo was being asked for $10 billion, likely to settle for $5 billion after judgment in Washington.


03:40
It should have been the Congolese government announcing this—not Cobold—because it is their country allowing these actors in.
Washington Group—I'll tell you something. President’s team received AVZ in Kinshasa on April 1. The President was very kind and gave clear and firm instructions.
They were very happy and impressed. But when they returned to Washington, the Congolese delegation contradicted what the President had said. He had said A, and they were now saying B. That’s my big issue.


04:19
A president cannot give his word (A), and then his team says something else (B). This is the U.S.-Congo pilot project. Even Bill Gates got involved.
This isn’t personal, I’m just speaking generally.
The behavior of President Tshisekedi’s group in Washington was disastrous.


05:15
They got into a shouting match with AVZ representatives. Tshisekedi’s people scolded them, and it escalated. I was even contacted. They don’t realize the State Department meetings are recorded.
They scolded a woman from AVZ—she cried and considered resigning.
No basic courtesy. They acted like bosses.
They even tried to suggest replacing AVZ with another company. AVZ got angry and threatened to sell its rights elsewhere.


06:34
That’s why the first person thanked was Secretary Mike Rubio. I shared that, didn’t I? In Kinshasa, ask yourselves—what did we do to that woman?
If you won’t speak up, I will tell the President. She nearly resigned. Mike had to intervene to stop it. That’s why Cobold later tried to distance themselves from this.


They want to build infrastructure, create jobs—60% Congolese—support local communities, and succeed in transforming the industry in Congo.
If you don’t cooperate, they’ll go develop it in Rwanda.


08:12
Congo is chaos. You never bring the right people to the table. We’re shocked by your behavior.
In America, we don’t operate like you do in Congo. Over there, people tolerate anything.


"Do you know who I am?"—is that how we act? No.
In work, we don’t care who you are—not the brother, sister, cousin, adviser, or minister of Tshisekedi. It doesn’t matter.


08:35
Your bad habits from Mobutu and Kabila—don’t bring that to Tshisekedi. He’ll fire all of you. These are revelations. He’ll have no choice.


09:19
And understand this: these Americans, their number one goal is to remove China.
That group wanted to bring in the Chinese, but the Americans saw through it.
That’s why Cobold, backed by Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, said: “No, we’re buying all of AVZ’s shares.”
If we had smarter people, we could have thought through all the rights AVZ had.

Damn mate come on you've just cost me my job as TSE AVZ thread official French translator... thanks......