AVZ Discussion 2022

[Carlos Danger]

Maybe I've missed something.

Where is this financial claim?

I know the $10 billion has been thrown around forever, but as far as I can see, there is no official reference to a $10 billion damages claim lodged in any publicly available ICSID document or AVZ ASX announcement.

Please correct me.

If somebody has any official document that specifies anything to the above effect please post it. That would be much appreciated. (Dave Evans? He's all over the ICSID case and his preferred course of action was the ICSID route. Maybe he can chime in? or anyone for that matter).

What I can see that AVZ are seeking via ICSID;

• A declaration that AVZ (via Dathcom) holds the legal title to Exploration Permit PR13359 at Manono.
• An order compelling the DRC to issue an exploitation (mining) permit over that area.
• Interim measures to protect these rights, and penalty orders due to non-compliance by the DRC.

The focus of current legal action and arbitration is on restoring mining rights and ownership, not seeking financial damages other than penalties for non compliance.

A "win" will in no way value the resource at 10 billion dollars based on the above.

At the end of the day a deal needs to be done for shareholders to walk away. Before or after arbitration (if it goes the distance). The sooner a deal is done the better in my opinion.

Page 25 @muks mentions penalties of around US$9billion relating to Cominiere so I’m not sure if this is the actual document or source you want.

I do recall AVZ’s compensation from the DRC being between US$8-$10billion but don’t remember the source. Cominiere is 90% owned by the DRC State and the DRC revoked the license through their Mining Ministry and CAMI.

I imagine the compensation of around US$10billion is the amount being claimed by us through DLA Piper

View attachment 87597

But as @Xerof suggested, @Carlos Danger is the best man to ask when it comes to seeking legal information.

So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.


this relates to my enforcement showerthought. They aren;t losses unless you sell type of deal, until we request to enforce the emergency injunction.

And for monetary penalties, ICC has jurisdiction over 90% of banking institutions, and can block or hold transactions from ZJ to Cominiere, or any other organiztion to Cominiere to recoup damages.

Our main claim at the ICSID is for the the restoration of our rights to the tenement and for the Mining Licence to be granted to Dathcom

As the damages claim in that link says AVZ is seeking $6.2b USD in damages for our 75% holding of Dathcom due to the destruction in value of the Manono project

The $2b USD being claimed for Dathcom is for the 25% belonging to Cominiere

The other $1b USD being claimed for the breach of the FROR of refusal by Cominiere and the $394k USD for legal fees takes it up to around $9.6b USD

There is also an undetermined amount for repetitional damage against Cominiere

It is worth noting this is filed in the ICC case against Cominiere but I’d imagine the claims at the ICSID are based on the same math

Also Zijin and Cominiere's claim for damages at the ICC valued AVZ's 75% at around $4.5b USD from memory

So we are seeking both the restoration of our rights and damages if the rights aren’t going to be restored by the DRC

9card once posted (included in the replies) a guide to this where he said:

‘So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.’

I remember another post where 9card talked about Fasken trying to get DLA to choose restoration or damages but the ICSID dismissed it

So long story short the ICSID will need to look at the likelihood of the DRC following their orders before deciding what to award us

And given the fact that the DRC haven’t put the south back in our name as ordered by the ICSID in January 2024. Plus have failed to engage with AVZ management during the agreed suspension that should have led to an end to the ICSID case with the sale to KoBold. My bet is we are getting the damages of $6.2b USD plus legal fees imo

 

[muks]

Our main claim at the ICSID is for the the restoration of our rights to the tenement and for the Mining Licence to be granted to Dathcom

As the damages claim in that link says AVZ is seeking $6.2b USD in damages for our 75% holding of Dathcom due to the destruction in value of the Manono project

The $2b USD being claimed for Dathcom is for the 25% belonging to Cominiere

The other $1b USD being claimed for the breach of the FROR of refusal by Cominiere and the $394k USD for legal fees takes it up to around $9.6b USD

There is also an undetermined amount for repetitional damage against Cominiere

It is worth noting this is filed in the ICC case against Cominiere but I’d imagine the claims at the ICSID are based on the same math

Also Zijin and Cominiere's claim for damages at the ICC valued AVZ's 75% at around $4.5b USD from memory

So we are seeking both the restoration of our rights and damages if the rights aren’t going to be restored by the DRC

9card once posted (included in the replies) a guide to this where he said:

‘So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.’

I remember another post where 9card talked about Fasken trying to get DLA to choose restoration or damages but the ICSID dismissed it

So long story short the ICSID will need to look at the likelihood of the DRC following their orders before deciding what to award us

And given the fact that the DRC haven’t put the south back in our name as ordered by the ICSID in January 2024. Plus have failed to engage with AVZ management during the agreed suspension that should have led to an end to the ICSID case with the sale to KoBold. My bet is we are getting the damages of $6.2b USD plus legal fees imo

Well put together Carlos. Thank you. Also thanks to Dave for pulling up the document referencing the damages claim. That was what I was looking for. I have spent a fair bit of time looking it over now that ICSID is back on the agenda.

As you have said Carlos the DRC have shown no interest in complying with ICSID orders thus far. So it would seem that awarding damages would be the most logical outcome.

How likely is it in your opinion that the arbitrators will adjust our damages claim?

 

[Winenut]

I continue to be in awe and gratitude of the amazingly and diverse group of honest, open, caring, connected, supportive and intelligent AVZ holders and TSE forum participants on this platform

Especially those who share good shit and intel and posts here while at times we all seem to be paddling upstream in a barbed wire/dugout fucking canoe!

 

[BRICK]

Our main claim at the ICSID is for the the restoration of our rights to the tenement and for the Mining Licence to be granted to Dathcom

As the damages claim in that link says AVZ is seeking $6.2b USD in damages for our 75% holding of Dathcom due to the destruction in value of the Manono project

The $2b USD being claimed for Dathcom is for the 25% belonging to Cominiere

The other $1b USD being claimed for the breach of the FROR of refusal by Cominiere and the $394k USD for legal fees takes it up to around $9.6b USD

There is also an undetermined amount for repetitional damage against Cominiere

It is worth noting this is filed in the ICC case against Cominiere but I’d imagine the claims at the ICSID are based on the same math

Also Zijin and Cominiere's claim for damages at the ICC valued AVZ's 75% at around $4.5b USD from memory

So we are seeking both the restoration of our rights and damages if the rights aren’t going to be restored by the DRC

9card once posted (included in the replies) a guide to this where he said:

‘So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.’

I remember another post where 9card talked about Fasken trying to get DLA to choose restoration or damages but the ICSID dismissed it

So long story short the ICSID will need to look at the likelihood of the DRC following their orders before deciding what to award us

And given the fact that the DRC haven’t put the south back in our name as ordered by the ICSID in January 2024. Plus have failed to engage with AVZ management during the agreed suspension that should have led to an end to the ICSID case with the sale to KoBold. My bet is we are getting the damages of $6.2b USD plus legal fees imo

This last paragraph says it all for me. Thanks Carlos.

Ill wait it out on principle to see how it plays out in court and good luck flogging the site to someone else if and when we win.

 

[wombat74]

If the DRC don't sh1tcan Kobold I expect Kobold to buy out AVZ . Watch for Kobold news . IMO

 

[Carlos Danger]

Well put together Carlos. Thank you. Also thanks to Dave for pulling up the document referencing the damages claim. That was what I was looking for. I have spent a fair bit of time looking it over now that ICSID is back on the agenda.

As you have said Carlos the DRC have shown no interest in complying with ICSID orders thus far. So it would seem that awarding damages would be the most logical outcome.

How likely is it in your opinion that the arbitrators will adjust our damages claim?

This last paragraph says it all for me. Thanks Carlos.

Ill wait it out on principle to see how it plays out in court and good luck flogging the site to someone else if and when we win.

If the DRC don't sh1tcan Kobold I expect Kobold to buy out AVZ . Watch for Kobold news . IMO

I think we will get the full damages at the ICSID. Possibly higher but most likely it will be the $6.2b USD. The claims against Cominiere will be factored in too either through the ICC or rolled into the ICSID so we should get that other $1b USD for the breach of FROR as well.

But I haven’t given up on the DRC restoring our rights at least for the south just yet

The Australian reported in March that ‘The Trump administration is poised to insist control of the massive lithium deposit be handed back to AVZ’

As a wise man one once said ‘We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing’

Same could be said for DRC and Rwanda imo

 

[wombat74]

I think we will get the full damages at the ICSID. Possibly higher but most likely it will be the $6.2b USD. The claims against Cominiere will be factored in too either through the ICC or rolled into the ICSID so we should get that other $1b USD for the breach of FROR as well.

But I haven’t given up on the DRC restoring our rights at least for the south just yet

The Australian reported in March that ‘The Trump administration is poised to insist control of the massive lithium deposit be handed back to AVZ’

As a wise man one once said ‘We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing’

Same could be said for DRC and Rwanda imo

View attachment 87615

Scrubbing the DRC clean .

 

[Carlos Danger]

Scrubbing the DRC clean .
View attachment 87616

The other part of it was 'US State Department officials confirmed they want to boost “responsible and transparent” development of DRC’s critical minerals'

If AVZ can get rat fucked by China

Then the gringos can also get rat fucked by Chyyyyyyyyyna

And the gringo king won't tolerate that shit imo

 

[BRICK]

I think we will get the full damages at the ICSID. Possibly higher but most likely it will be the $6.2b USD. The claims against Cominiere will be factored in too either through the ICC or rolled into the ICSID so we should get that other $1b USD for the breach of FROR as well.

But I haven’t given up on the DRC restoring our rights at least for the south just yet

The Australian reported in March that ‘The Trump administration is poised to insist control of the massive lithium deposit be handed back to AVZ’

As a wise man one once said ‘We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing’

Same could be said for DRC and Rwanda imo

View attachment 87615

How gold was that comment today from Trump
Interesting days

 

[Mining8]

I think we will get the full damages at the ICSID. Possibly higher but most likely it will be the $6.2b USD. The claims against Cominiere will be factored in too either through the ICC or rolled into the ICSID so we should get that other $1b USD for the breach of FROR as well.

But I haven’t given up on the DRC restoring our rights at least for the south just yet

The Australian reported in March that ‘The Trump administration is poised to insist control of the massive lithium deposit be handed back to AVZ’

As a wise man one once said ‘We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing’

Same could be said for DRC and Rwanda imo

View attachment 87615

 

[KentCStrait]

Jens playing pretend again.

He talks like he’s still in the room — but it’s obvious he’s out of the loop and just talking shit. The guy flip-flops more than a fish on a dock.

One minute he’s telling people not to post price targets. The next, he’s floating sub-$2 like it’s gospel. One minute he’s warning you not to criticise the DRC. The next, he’s calling them corrupt and bankrupt.

Let’s not forget — Jens has 8 million shares and has already sold down enough to cover his original outlay. He’s walking away with millions regardless of outcome. So of course he’s relaxed about a lowball result — he’s not the one facing real losses.

And if this ends up going to a shareholder vote, don’t kid yourself — he’s not “managing expectations,” he’s softening the blow to make a lower number palatable and protect his own position.

Oh, and the constant back-and-forth with Shane East wood? Enough already. Everyone knows Shane’s a nut — Jens just needs to shut the fuck up and stop feeding him.

 

[Azzler]

Jens playing pretend again.

He talks like he’s still in the room — but it’s obvious he’s out of the loop and just talking shit. The guy flip-flops more than a fish on a dock.

One minute he’s telling people not to post price targets. The next, he’s floating sub-$2 like it’s gospel. One minute he’s warning you not to criticise the DRC. The next, he’s calling them corrupt and bankrupt.

Let’s not forget — Jens has 8 million shares and has already sold down enough to cover his original outlay. He’s walking away with millions regardless of outcome. So of course he’s relaxed about a lowball result — he’s not the one facing real losses.

And if this ends up going to a shareholder vote, don’t kid yourself — he’s not “managing expectations,” he’s softening the blow to make a lower number palatable and protect his own position.

Oh, and the constant back-and-forth with Shane East wood? Enough already. Everyone knows Shane’s a nut — Jens just needs to shut the fuck up and stop feeding him.

Take your X drama back to X.

 

[cruiser51]

Paul Kagame is still alive and having a ball, so he is not as dead as a door nail, as certain people hoped and should be able to sign the DRC - Rwanda deal in Washington soon, or Trump will ask him if he knows what the fuck he is doing.

 

[Xerof]

Jens playing pretend again.

He talks like he’s still in the room — but it’s obvious he’s out of the loop and just talking shit. The guy flip-flops more than a fish on a dock.

One minute he’s telling people not to post price targets. The next, he’s floating sub-$2 like it’s gospel. One minute he’s warning you not to criticise the DRC. The next, he’s calling them corrupt and bankrupt.

Let’s not forget — Jens has 8 million shares and has already sold down enough to cover his original outlay. He’s walking away with millions regardless of outcome. So of course he’s relaxed about a lowball result — he’s not the one facing real losses.

And if this ends up going to a shareholder vote, don’t kid yourself — he’s not “managing expectations,” he’s softening the blow to make a lower number palatable and protect his own position.

Oh, and the constant back-and-forth with Shane East wood? Enough already. Everyone knows Shane’s a nut — Jens just needs to shut the fuck up and stop feeding him.

Thanks himybaggywaggy. Close the door on the way out

 

[cruiser51]

Why does Kiki suddenly say Graham Kerr CEO of AVZ?
Is that a slip of the pen?

Graham Kerr is/was CEO of South32 from Oct 2014, an ex BHP man, studied accounting and business information systems.

As far as I know, Nigel Ferguson is AVZ's CEO and MD.

Just odd.

 

[Spikerama]

Thanks himybaggywaggy. Close the door on the way out

Ferguson is Managing Director not CEO.

 

[Retrobyte]

Why does Kiki suddenly say Graham Kerr CEO of AVZ?
Is that a slip of the pen?

Graham Kerr is/was CEO of South32 from Oct 2014, an ex BHP man, studied accounting and business information systems.

South32 poaches Anglo American executive to replace Kerr as CEO

The diversified miner has tapped copper expert Matthew Daley to replace inaugural boss Graham Kerr after more than a decade at the helm.

www.afr.com

 

[Bin59]

Why does Kiki suddenly say Graham Kerr CEO of AVZ?
Is that a slip of the pen?

Graham Kerr is/was CEO of South32 from Oct 2014, an ex BHP man, studied accounting and business information systems.

As far as I know, Nigel Ferguson is AVZ's CEO and MD.

Just odd.

View attachment 87628

Good pick up Cruiser, I see he has recently announced he is stepping down as South22 CEO later in 2026.

There is plenty of talk about large mergers in the mining industry atm, one of them being a Glencore / RIO merger and the other a BHP / Anglo American merger.

South32 announces CEO transition

Today we announced that Matthew Daley will join the company as Deputy Chief Executive Officer on 2 February 2026 and will assume the role of Chief Executive Officer when Graham Kerr steps down from the role later in 2026.

www.south32.net

South32 announces CEO transition​

12 MAY 2025

Today we announced that Matthew Daley will join the company as Deputy Chief Executive Officer on 2 February 2026 and will assume the role of Chief Executive Officer (CEO) when Graham Kerr steps down from the role later in 2026.​

Mr Daley will join South32 from Anglo American plc, where he is currently the Technical and Operations Director and a member of the executive leadership team. He joined Anglo American in 2017 as Group Head of Mining, and prior to that he was the Executive General Manager for Glencore’s Canadian copper division. Mr Daley’s earlier career included operational, commercial and project roles with Xstrata and Minera Alumbrera.

The appointment of Mr Daley follows a comprehensive global search by the Board, which included the evaluation of internal and external candidates.

South32 Chair Karen Wood said: “As we embark on this leadership transition, I want to recognise the outstanding contribution Graham has made over a decade of service through the company’s demerger from BHP and the subsequent transformation of its portfolio.

“As inaugural CEO, Graham has been instrumental in establishing South32’s values-based culture, building a quality leadership team, and implementing our strategy, underpinned by a disciplined approach to capital allocation and cost management. His safety-focused leadership has enabled the ongoing delivery of our global, multi-year Safety Improvement Program which remains core to the pursuit of improvements in our safety performance.

“Graham will continue to lead the company through the transition period which will give Matthew the opportunity to get to know our people, our stakeholders and our many operations around the world before taking the helm.

“Matthew is a highly accomplished executive with extensive operational and leadership experience, including in copper and in the Americas, and the Board is confident he is the right successor for Graham.”

South32 CEO Graham Kerr said: “It has been an honour to be part of South32 and lead the business through its first ten years.
“From defining the company’s purpose, strategy and values, to transforming its portfolio and setting it up for long term success, I’m proud of all we have achieved since 2015.

“When Matthew assumes the role, he will bring fresh leadership to continue South32’s transformation into the next decade. In the meantime, I remain focused on leading the business in the execution of our strategy, including the work to deliver a step change in our safety performance and the ongoing transformation of our portfolio towards minerals and metals critical to the global energy transition.”

Incoming Deputy Chief Executive Officer Matthew Daley said: “I am delighted to be joining South32 and look forward to working with Graham and his leadership team as I transition into the role of CEO.

“South32’s portfolio has evolved substantially in recent years and is well positioned for potential future growth with a strong balance sheet, an attractive commodity mix, and a pipeline of options in highly prospective regions.”

 

[Retrobyte]

Kerr knows Africa .....

 

[Bin59]

Does anyone recall that for the DRC to agree to issue us a ML our intention had to be that we were going mining and not selling the project?