AVZ Discussion 2022

[Skar]

" ... We can find another US partner down the line or we can proceed through courts with Cath. This perception of a rushed sale/last chance nonsense is pure propaganda. This is the START of a massive global shift, Africa investment from 2025+ will go parabolic, the population is growing, western ones are declining. ..."

--> I won't doubt AVZ will find another potential (US) partner but do you really think thank any investor outside DRC is not considerung AVZ dilema in the last few years with spending that much money w/o having someting binding in hand today by the DRC government (Kabila or Tshisekedi)? Whoever and I guess several is willing to transfer brwonfield into mine/production needs a speedy boarding pass by the DRC themself and put any $ aside for the buyout.
It works more this way ... you're an US investor? Fine ... US government put you on a list for the next bilaterial meeting because they have an agenda to secure urgently so called rare earth materials and critical minerals for their national agenda. (I mean who will come to the US when they have no reliable supply chain secured). DRC will check the list and give its 'OK'. Any deal with CATH is just that much worth as the DRC government let this deal happen ... and surprise ... I guess there will be no ML to AVZ given by the DRC government e.g. the CATH agreement, ZiJin received Northeast section and chinese companies are not that popular anymore (probably 50% to both ... US and China of whole 13559). Other potential investors on the list of politicians to decide? Who knows ... but today it looks like that DRC gave approval fot Kobold ... who am I to judge? But for sure ... Kobold will never bring this into production w/o any further assistance of a known mine player.

America are going ahead with the minerals for Security deal. Investment is going into Africa. Kobold are the first off the rung (most connected), cherry picking the best bits from the carcass so to speak. Don't conflate US minerals for security to mean Kobold are the only investor (there will be lots and lots). It is only BECAUSE of the US involvement that this oppurtunity has now emerged for Kobold (or they are the architects of it, one of many). If the kobold deal does not go ahead, the US does not scrap the security for minerals deal, it continues (again there is TRILLIONS of mineral wealth in Africa). There are many countries, many other minerals and probably many other sources of lithium available in Africa, ripe for the picking unexplored. As the demand for lithium grows this mammoth source of 669MT will be sitting idle not generating tax (bad for DRC so they can issue an ML for us at any time or we can keep going through courts - a deal is better than courts). More offers will come off the back of the minerals for security deal UNLESS Kobold can lock this up now.

That said I obviously prefer a sale to Kobold but I am not going to let it be stolen (if I can help it at all)... I'll speculate here on the value of the project, I am not posting SP predictions or attacking anyone (on social media) and don't think that helps any. Right now its a wait and see how the deal takes shape, gotta give management room to operate.

 

[wombat74]

Anyone know who this woman is ?KiK giving it some weight .



KIKI KIENGE
@KiengeKki

Maja@fastandfiry, shareholder of AVZ, sends a message of conscience to all other partners of the Australian company, regarding the potential negotiations with the American giant, #KoBold , for the sale of its assets related to the Manono lithium project: "Personal message to $AVZ SH: We are all in this together and want the best outcome. ICSID is not it! It may give you the slow satisfaction of revenge, but you will never see one!! We have an offer on the table. Be grateful for it, given the current geopolitical and economic context. Stop arguing about SP and wait a moment. The AVZ team has worked hard to conclude a deal that we did not even imagine possible a few months ago.So, let's add one. Another note: some people deliberately post negative comments about $ AVZ and others. Let's not give them airtime. You know what you have to do! "

 

[Carlos Danger]

I don't see any official information that AVZ will be delaying the ICSID case. There is too much fluff around.

Nigel signed a document that says AVZ are proposing a temporary suspension of the ICSID arbitration proceedings to the DRC

 

[Skar]

Nigel signed a document that says we are proposing a temporary suspension of the ICSID arbitration proceedings to the DRC
View attachment 84294

Kobold are a new element which hopefully can break whatever political blocks have been set up, so yeah makes sense to go back and try to negotiate.

I guess I don't want short term gain at the expense of a longer term profit... I wonder if royalties are on the table for us.

 

[Azzler]

America are going ahead with the minerals for Security deal. Investment is going into Africa. Kobold are the first off the rung (most connected), cherry picking the best bits from the carcass so to speak. Don't conflate US minerals for security to mean Kobold are the only investor (there will be lots and lots). It is only BECAUSE of the US involvement that this oppurtunity has now emerged for Kobold (or they are the architects of it, one of many). If the kobold deal does not go ahead, the US does not scrap the security for minerals deal, it continues (again there is TRILLIONS of mineral wealth in Africa). There are many countries, many other minerals and probably many other sources of lithium available in Africa, ripe for the picking unexplored. As the demand for lithium grows this mammoth source of 669MT will be sitting idle not generating tax (bad for DRC so they can issue an ML for us at any time or we can keep going through courts - a deal is better than courts). More offers will come off the back of the minerals for security deal UNLESS Kobold can lock this up now.

That said I obviously prefer a sale to Kobold but I am not going to let it be stolen (if I can help it at all)... I'll speculate here on the value of the project, I am not posting SP predictions or attacking anyone (on social media) and don't think that helps any. Right now its a wait and see how the deal takes shape, gotta give management room to operate.

Indeed there will be lots of other US investors in the DRC, but those US investors interested in Manono have already shown themselves.
Everyone who needs to know about Manono, knows about Manono, there's no one still asleep that will wake up next month and come to outbid Kobald.
The players are all at the table.
The Government needs US security for the sake of National security, and as part of that deal, Manono must only go to the US, so China is out, and they apparently already have the North so they can't really cry "unfair".

Your post sounds exciting and promising in terms of AVZ securing a great price, but none of your claims appear to have and relevance to our situation. I mean no offence to you Skar, and I'd welcome anyone to refute what I'm saying or show my where my error lies.

I've stated before that ISCID is a suicide vest option, it's leverage, and we can hurt them if they screw us.
All they need to do is offer us something that would be a better outcome than going through with 5-10 years of legal BS (that we are not yet fully funded for) followed by years of manouvering to attempt to get some of the moneys back.
ISCID is one step above a complete loss for us.

We are not holding the cards as some claim, we have one card, and fortunately great management and Legals.

 

[Retrobyte]

Anyone know who this woman is ?KiK giving it some weight .



KIKI KIENGE
@KiengeKki

Maja@fastandfiry

Anti vaxxer, racist, Trump superfan, most of her Twitter posts have been as accurate as Jens, blocks anyone who doesn't agree with her

 

[Skar]

Indeed there will be lots of other US investors in the DRC, but those US investors interested in Manono have already shown themselves.
Everyone who needs to know about Manono, knows about Manono, there's no one still asleep that will wake up next month and come to outbid Kobald.
The players are all at the table.
The Government needs US security for the sake of National security, and as part of that deal, Manono must only go to the US, so China is out, and they apparently already have the North so they can't really cry "unfair".

Your post sounds exciting and promising in terms of AVZ securing a great price, but none of your claims appear to have and relevance to our situation. I mean no offence to you Skar, and I'd welcome anyone to refute what I'm saying or show my where my error lies.

I've stated before that ISCID is a suicide vest option, it's leverage, and we can hurt them if they screw us.
All they need to do is offer us something that would be a better outcome than going through with 5-10 years of legal BS (that we are not yet fully funded for) followed by years of manouvering to attempt to get some of the moneys back.
ISCID is one step above a complete loss for us.

We are not holding the cards as some claim, we have one card, and fortunately great management and Legals.

I agree with what you are saying with the one caveat being "AT THIS TIME". I see a much higher potential (and have since this mess began) towards the end of the decade for lithium (27-30). AVZ is too big not to mine, weather we do it or some one else. I just see it as scaremongering to try to be convinced to sell out now at a low point (if that is what is transpiring), if we get any where near a fair price... so be it.

 

[Azzler]

I agree with what you are saying with the one caveat being "AT THIS TIME". I see a much higher potential (and have since this mess began) towards the end of the decade for lithium (27-30). AVZ is too big not to mine, weather we do it or some one else. I just see it as scaremongering to try to be convinced to sell out now at a low point (if that is what is transpiring), if we get any where near a fair price... so be it.

But IF we get an offer that you don't consider fair value, and Management say we should take this offer, then you're claiming you know better than Management and DLA Piper? You want to force them somehow into working for years to come to try to wrangle a better deal?

With people now believing we could get $12, or even $3 and we shouldn't settle for less because they think ISCID will do some magic on the most corrupt country on earth, perhaps some scaremongering is warranted.
If shareholders believe ISCID is a good idea, yes I agree they need to be shown to become very fucking fearful of that outcome.

If Management endorse an offer, I believe they are across everything far more than any shareholder or forum commenter, and we should accept what they propose for AVZ.
If they think we can do better, I trust them to pursue other avenues.

 

[Samus]

Nigel signed a document that says AVZ are proposing a temporary suspension of the ICSID arbitration proceedings to the DRC
View attachment 84294

A proposal isn't the same as a commitment to the delay.
Regardless, we didn't hear it from the company and it isn't any reason to expect a low ball settlement.

 

[Skar]

But IF we get an offer that you don't consider fair value, and Management say we should take this offer, then you're claiming you know better than Management and DLA Piper? You want to force them somehow into working for years to come to try to wrangle a better deal?

With people now believing we could get $12, or even $3 and we shouldn't settle for less because they think ISCID will do some magic on the most corrupt country on earth, perhaps some scaremongering is warranted.
If shareholders believe ISCID is a good idea, yes I agree they need to be shown to become very fucking fearful of that outcome.

If Management endorse an offer, I believe they are across everything far more than any shareholder or forum commenter, and we should accept what they propose for AVZ.
If they think we can do better, I trust them to pursue other avenues.

I don't think its a matter of knowing better, its just being in a different set of circumstances - for example the structure of the deal and the way money is returned to shareholders, may affect a CGT discount. DLA piper may say its better to get a ~5% higher sale price than it is to structure a more tax advantageous deal for SH like me (purely a hypothetical) - the other one could be the board just want to bring matters to an early close (I dont think this is true either, purely hypothetical).

In answer to your question, yes I will believe the boards recomendation but I still want the best deal for me obviously.

 

[Spikerama]

How fuckin' stupid are you mate? The emerged status of my profile doesn't impact whether my posts are measured and accurate.

Guess what whine scrotum...the deal's very likely going through whether you like it or not.

If there are any small, compensating, mentally unwell, little boys that want to continue to laugh react, it will be assumed that you are laughing at the referral to the above poster as whine scrotum...so knock yourself out.

Apologies to the posters this morning who provided more measured and intelligent input. I should know better than to respond to people that have no intelligent contribution...oh well

Hmmmn... Let's see. Keeps pushing the same party line as Jens Emil Soderlund by lowballing and trying to soften up shareholders.

Has a name with initial "J" and then 19. What is the 19th letter of the alphabet? Add an "E" in the middle and who's initials have you got?

Coincidence? Maybe. I'll let others be the judge but it tracks with Jens ego that he has to sell his own narrative under his own brand.

 

[aon]

get fucked

just pressing home the point........

Agree 100%
The rumoured offer is a turd of a deal (if there is any substance to it) I guess if you were tipped off to sell out on secrete squirrel intel for a few select mate's any price is okay for your remaining holdings, did you also buy those at 1c! like carrot top ? ... don't try and sell this pile of poo as a good deal to shareholders, who have paid up to $1.36 and been up on blocks for 3 years.
Sug the boss comes back with a total of 6×40c and we will listen, otherwise f o.

 

[Retrobyte]

Has a name with initial "J" and then 19. What is the 19th letter of the alphabet? Add an "E" in the middle and who's initials have you got?

This feels like one of the questions on The 1% Club

 

[Mining8]

People are just massively jumping the gun here. Why fuck kobold? We don’t know what they’ve offered and they’ve put us back on the radar.
Nigel has indicated they are working with Kobold to come to a deal. If he’s hearing them out then we need to give them the benefit of the doubt.

People are just massively jumping the gun here. Why fuck kobold? We don’t know what they’ve offered and they’ve put us back on the radar.
Nigel has indicated they are working with Kobold to come to a deal. If he’s hearing them out then we need to give them the benefit of the doubt.

AVZ Warriors,

I realise that it has been a long road for everyone, financially and mentally and I have the greatest sympathy for all sufferers. For instance, I have had to sell assets to keep me and the misses afloat and we are starting to run on fumes. While the ICSID option sounds good($10 billion) it will not give you the desired result. For one, it will be a long road(years) and I bet you London to a brick on that you are not going to get money out of a broke DRC. We are just fortunate that the Trump administration has realised the importance of securing critical minerals and preventing China owning them and dominating the supply chain and price, and our unique mammoth once in a lifetime deposit is right in their cross hairs. Therefore I think the Kobold offer and any other American interest(a non-binding interest can bring other bidders) is a God send and I would gladly take the offer knowing that this really is the only way out. From what I understand in articles we could be looking at weeks to a few months when all is signed.

How great would that be for long suffering holders considering we have had to wait 3 years!

Bison is right to say we do not know the Kobold offer so why presume anything......but I will say this:

The price of lithium has fallen dramatically since the boom as you can see in the share price of our competitors; it is a buyers market. Sohh....as much as we have the largest deposit globally the lithium price must be considered, the fact we do not have a mine yet, as well as a discount for sovereign risk. I am just being realistic and think this is honestly our only option, and who knows what the price will be.

Sincerely, M8

 

[Sparrowhawk12]

Anti vaxxer, racist, Trump superfan, most of her Twitter posts have been as accurate as Jens, blocks anyone who doesn't agree with her

I don't read many of fastnfirey posts - I'm flat out trying to keep my PAYE job & pay the mortgage. But I know she & hubby invested much of their life savings in AVZ, expecting the strong trajectory we saw in late 2021 to continue and (like me) failed to sell-out before suspension, and in her case causing her to lose much more than the investment.
Purely talking AVZ related posting, I find her incredibly positive and constructive considering what she's been through.
Personally, I will be very disappointed if we are not paid out the equivalent of ATH, considering everyone's tax impacts vary.
But, I will accept the best deal that Nige, BOD & DLA Piper can extract. They've worked miracles to get us this far.
Remember what we are up against: 1) CCP will do anything to get Manono - I hear the bribes are $150+M so far; 2) corruption is rife in the DRC.
IMO. DYOR. Br Sparrowhawk12

 

[PhatCatz]

AVZ Warriors,

I realise that it has been a long road for everyone, financially and mentally and I have the greatest sympathy for all sufferers. For instance, I have had to sell assets to keep me and the misses afloat and we are starting to run on fumes. While the ICSID option sounds good($10 billion) it will not give you the desired result. For one, it will be a long road(years) and I bet you London to a brick on that you are not going to get money out of a broke DRC. We are just fortunate that the Trump administration has realised the importance of securing critical minerals and preventing China owning them and dominating the supply chain and price, and our unique mammoth once in a lifetime deposit is right in their cross hairs. Therefore I think the Kobold offer and any other American interest(a non-binding interest can bring other bidders) is a God send and I would gladly take the offer knowing that this really is the only way out. From what I understand in articles we could be looking at weeks to a few months when all is signed.

How great would that be for long suffering holders considering we have had to wait 3 years!

Bison is right to say we do not know the Kobold offer so why presume anything......but I will say this:

The price of lithium has fallen dramatically since the boom as you can see in the share price of our competitors; it is a buyers market. Sohh....as much as we have the largest deposit globally the lithium price must be considered, the fact we do not have a mine yet, as well as a discount for sovereign risk. I am just being realistic and think this is honestly our only option, and who knows what the price will be.

Sincerely, M8

So what you’re saying is that we will have to accept an offer less than what Rio Tinto paid Arcadium which is a significantly inferior asset than Manono and has also been subjected to the “lithium price downturn” when they took it over!!!

Not directed at you specifically, and as a relatively new comer in terms of posting myself… but fuck me what’s with all these emerged and members that I have not seen over the past 6 months raising their heads in the past few hours.

 

[Azzler]

So what you’re saying is that we will have to accept an offer less than what Rio Tinto paid Arcadium which is a significantly inferior asset than Manono and has also been subjected to the “lithium price downturn” when they took it over!!!

Not directed at you specifically, and as a relatively new comer in terms of posting myself… but fuck me what’s with all these emerged and members that I have not seen over the past 6 months raising their heads in the past few hours.

There is no fair value fairy mate, there is only what someone is willing to pay.
If you can find a buyer whos willing to pay more for Manono, please email management and set up a meeting.

Also @Mining8 is a very well respected poster from way way back, assuming it's the same guy from HC.
And I would say there are far more lurkers on TSE than regular posters, who aren't into chatting about everything day in day out like us losers do

 

[Retrobyte]

I don't read many of fastnfirey posts - But I know she & hubby invested much of their life savings in AVZ

CCTV footage from the night she convinced her hubby to pour everything they own into a mining explorer in the DRC

 

[Rightyo]

Anyone know who this woman is ?KiK giving it some weight .



KIKI KIENGE
@KiengeKki

Maja@fastandfiry, shareholder of AVZ, sends a message of conscience to all other partners of the Australian company, regarding the potential negotiations with the American giant, #KoBold , for the sale of its assets related to the Manono lithium project: "Personal message to $AVZ SH: We are all in this together and want the best outcome. ICSID is not it! It may give you the slow satisfaction of revenge, but you will never see one!! We have an offer on the table. Be grateful for it, given the current geopolitical and economic context. Stop arguing about SP and wait a moment. The AVZ team has worked hard to conclude a deal that we did not even imagine possible a few months ago.So, let's add one. Another note: some people deliberately post negative comments about $ AVZ and others. Let's not give them airtime. You know what you have to do! "

oh yes good idea, take the first offer that comes along because they always offer their best deal first.... seriously WTF, how about a recap, kobold have a NON BINDING offer, and thats all it is an offer. ZIJIN RIO or saudia arabia could/can and probebly will make an offer too. so how about you take a chill pill, kick back and relax and well see what other offers come to the table before the ICISD hearings become un-temporaily suspended and we air all the dishonesty to the world

 

[Scoota30]

We've spent 3 years of shitfuckery, survived being taken over for cents by the chinese, and now we are 3 weeks away from ICSID starting (after the DRC has tried twice in the last two months to throw it out on Jurisdiction) and some of the older shareholders are now ready to fold their cards for Kobold cheap??

Give me a break. Nige has balls of steel - I will be shocked if after all of this he just turns over and folds to Kobold for fuck all. Don't forget the comments about Kobold being in our core library at the last AGM. 100% he would prefer a buyout than going the full hog at ICSID but nobody knows the full potential of Manono more than the big dog.

Let the man cook!!