AVZ Discussion 2022

[Winenut]

Yeah I agree wholeheartedly with that in principle but I would add on a few rules of engagement.

1. It's fine to be posting to KongPress and what other feeds related AVZ / DRC / Comminiere news but I don't reckon it makes too much difference because the Key players (DRC Gov) are quarantined from it and are unlikely to bother clicking on the translate button even if they do come across it. One way to make sure Francophones read it is to translate it first then post. That's why I always try to create content in English and French whenever I can. A few other posters on here have cottoned onto this and do the same.

2. Related to the above, as I said there is a kind of homophily happening with who reacts (eg Kiki or Franck or whoever) and then a flurry of posters from here piling on to whatever post. Again I question whether MoM or The President or other key DRC stakeholders ever see or bother to read that stuff. So what I started doing a while back is to post directly to their feeds. The President has a few. Doing the other stuff is still probably worth it from a bad publicity perspective but I think the actually accounts of top brass is where the nerve is.

When I did this, I got told via proxy to AVZ management that I had to stop immediately because it was pissing the president off. Obviously this was on the back of everyone else posting as well so hard to pinpoint the straw that the broke the camel but at least that was a pretty serious pushback. So I have started posting directly onto the DRC pollies twitter feeds again and I think everyone should do the same. Just flood it.

3. And this is an important one. If you're gonna be on twitter and try and make a point. Try not to use foul language and abuse and act like a complete, pissed out of your head redneck. It drags down the tone and reflects badly on the group of shareholders who are trying to help the current BoD get this over the line. And dont get me wrong. I know as well as anyone in here how easy it is to get worked up and livid about certain things that are popping up but trust me, it's far better to use wit, intelligence and cleverly crafted ideas to attack these detractors as the alternative may leave a bad taste with Shareholders who come across these posts but know little of what's going on and are swinging voters.

4. In terms of MMGA, I don't even bother replying to their posts now because they only get a few likes and the only comments that appear are from people here attacking them.

Wouldn't it be better to just let the posts die prematurely? A fire needs wood to burn. Don't feed it and it goes out pretty quickly. If you all pile in and bump up the conversation it keeps going to the trending feed and keeps it alive. Just don't. Simples.

Agree with lots of your points there Spike

Apart from 4

I think it is important to respond, highlight and directly counter the disinformation from MMGA on the same forum(s) they are pushing it out on

The MMGA propaganda won't just fade away and die a natural death.......MMGA, Zijin, Cong, Cominiere, Eckhof, Math and their accomplices and backers will never stop in their attempt to illegally steal Manono......ever!!

Refuting their rubbish and lies must be undertaken swiftly and accurately and cut the snakes head off with the very next available blow

 

[Carlos Danger]

As if you couldn't see the forest for the trees.
It's done, maybe the icsid will give us something back because of a settlement with a new owner. The drc don't want to work with us. It doesn't matter what we wright against them on twitter, no one cares. Remember my words, they will never sign a MoU or a ML. You will see it in a few months. I said it for a long time they will fuck us, and they did, step after step. Don't worry it makes no sense for me to post here anymore, it's not really better than the crapper. @MoneyBags1348 you need a therapist, even if you or many people here don't realize it. But hopefully one day I will help you to punch it out of you

I just don't see the need for MoU negotiations unless the DRC government wants us to give something up. They could just say we will see you in court or alternatively they could follow their own mining code and give us the surviving ML or a ML for all of 13359 anytime they want. Giving us the ML would make the arbitration at the ICSID go away automatically as that is what our entire case is about.

It is clear that within the DRC legal system we have currently lost the tenement although the ICC case we brought against Cominiere could remedy that in the medium term by confirming the Dathcom JVA is not terminated. But for now the current standing within the DRC has been backed up fully by the MoM. The only way we get all of the tenement back from here in the short term is with a presidential order or some unprecedented mechanism used by the MoJ. We could also possibly have the ML awarded to us at the ICSID but that wouldn't be imminent imo

At the moment the pride lands are overrun with jackals and hyenas while it looks like Felix is just another in a long line of Scar's. Oh Simba where art thou. Long live the king.

 

[EL ZORRO]

I’m not implying that Jag is Tommy. I am simply saying that in life it is best to be humble, something Jag doesn’t know how to be. Stop blowing your own trumpet Jag. Yes, well done for all of your effort but you are being so arrogant by putting others down for asking questions, your character is comparable to Tommy’s.
The money of any shareholder is as precious as yours .
At the end of the day the outcome of all of this is in the Congolese hands .
The only thing in our hands is that we don’t vote for that square head that is Peter!

 

[BRICK]

First time I've posted on twitter.

It’s like I’m driving a car for the first time. Think I need lessons

 

[BRICK]

Agree with lots of your points there Spike

Apart from 4

I think it is important to respond, highlight and directly counter the disinformation from MMGA on the same forum(s) they are pushing it out on

The MMGA propaganda won't just fade away and die a natural death.......MMGA, Zijin, Cong, Cominiere, Eckhof, Math and their accomplices and backers will never stop in their attempt to illegally steal Manono......ever!!

Refuting their rubbish and lies must be undertaken swiftly and accurately and cut the snakes head off with the very next available blow

Totally agree with ya nut.

Fuckem

 

[BEISHA]

I’m not implying that Jag is Tommy. I am simply saying that in life it is best to be humble, something Jag doesn’t know how to be. Stop blowing your own trumpet Jag. Yes, well done for all of your effort but you are being so arrogant by putting others down for asking questions, your character is comparable to Tommy’s.
The money of any shareholder is as precious as yours .
At the end of the day the outcome of all of this is in the Congolese hands .
The only thing in our hands is that we don’t vote for that square head that is Peter!

" I am not implying that jag is Tommy "

Do you think your shit smells better than everyone else's? You're an arrogant, dumber clown, Tommy.

I converted your spanish into english.....

Not only are you suggesting that @JAG is Tommy, you are also suggesting that he is a dumber version....

 

[TDITD]

I just don't see the need for MoU negotiations unless the DRC government wants us to give something up. They could just say we will see you in court or alternatively they could follow their own mining code and give us the surviving ML or a ML for all of 13359 anytime they want. Giving us the ML would make the arbitration at the ICSID go away automatically as that is what our entire case is about.

It is clear that within the DRC legal system we have currently lost the tenement although the ICC case we brought against Cominiere could remedy that in the medium term by confirming the Dathcom JVA is not terminated. But for now the current standing within the DRC has been backed up fully by the MoM. The only way we get all of the tenement back from here in the short term is with a presidential order or some unprecedented mechanism used by the MoJ. We could also possibly have the ML awarded to us at the ICSID but that wouldn't be imminent imo

At the moment the pride lands are overrun with jackals and hyenas while it looks like Felix is just another in a long line of Scar's. Oh Simba where art thou. Long live the king.

It's really not far fetched whatsoever for an unprecedented mechanism to be used for us, as they used one against us to take away the ML decree.

In fact I'd say it's possibly even likely especially if PR05 is on our side so to speak, that could be the reason the responsibility was shifted over to MOJ as MOM or MOP were stalling.

Otherwise it's ICSID, as Kibeya couldn't give one fuck about ICC or its puny emergency injunction.

 

[LX600]

Any one know why? if things really that bad, why Nigel and team not hitting the media and expose all the fucking shit about DRC and their ridiculous? It doesn’t make sense at all

 

[LX600]

BTW, Zijin’s head deep down thought they are a great ESG company.
10月21日，在2023亚布力中国企业家论坛厦门峰会上，紫金矿业董事长陈景河表示，矿业企业走出去是必然选择。而地缘政治问题，可能是不少走向海外的企业需要应对的一项风险。陈景河表示，有两点措施应对，第一是一定要非常规范；第二是把ESG体系和共同发展做到极致。陈景河也谈及了他对紫金矿业的愿景，希望公司在2025年能够进入全球矿业企业排名的前五，到2030年能够进入全球矿业企业排名的前三。

 

[TDITD]

Any one know why? if things really that bad, why Nigel and team not hitting the media and expose all the fucking shit about DRC and their ridiculous? It doesn’t make sense at all

If they really are deep into MOU and ML discussions with DRC Government, like the ANN says. It would be a real silly move to expose everything then and blow up the MOU/ML

So maybe things really aren't as bad as one side is saying

 

[Dazmac66]

If they really are deep into MOU and ML discussions with DRC Government, like the ANN says. It would be a real silly move to expose everything then and blow up the MOU/ML

So maybe things really aren't as bad as one side is saying

Wise words, everyone should take 5 minutes to reread the entire response to Fat Tail again. It only takes 5 minutes and addresses a lot of concerns.

 

[Carlos Danger]

It's really not far fetched whatsoever for an unprecedented mechanism to be used for us, as they used one against us to take away the ML decree.

In fact I'd say it's possibly even likely especially if PR05 is on our side so to speak, that could be the reason the responsibility was shifted over to MOJ as MOM or MOP were stalling.

Otherwise it's ICSID, as Kibeya couldn't give one fuck about ICC or its puny emergency injunction.

Franck Fwamba spoke of a 'gentleman's agreement'. Both Ventora and Dig Oil cut deals. They didn't get to keep their original rights and Dig Oil has been waiting over a decade to get paid. The MoJ is looking at 3 other litigations as part of this process. The most likely chance of us getting the whole tenement back in the short term is a presidential order after advice from the MoJ but that's not how these cats usually operate imo

 

[9cardomaha]

Do you have any intel on what that means for the south?

Which of the 'various remedies' that AVZ are seeking at the ICSID do your lawyer friends think is most likely to be the outcome?

The problem we have is the MoM and MoP clearly hate us and they are the two most important figures for the government in the DRC mining sector apart from Felix. We will absolutely crush the DRC government at the ICSID if we need to go the distance I have no doubt but it will take a long time if a settlement isn't reached. Hopefully the MoU is cooking up something good but it seems like a smokescreen to me as the MoM easily could have overruled the decision about the Dathcom JVA being terminated and given Dathcom the tenement back with the ML if she wasn't feeling so snackish imo

At the time, the intel would mean the south would only be 69 carres. This would then go to Dathcom, i believe this was tabled to Nige, but likely a hard pass for obvious reasons.

Those tabled offers and those declined by Nige are likely similar to this type of lunacy, so when MMGA says we should be made aware of the deals so shareholders can make the best decisions, i'd counter that only when something resembling a fair deal is tabled, would we need to see it - otherwise every fucking 50c on the dollar cunt would submit some bullshit offer and we'd need to be informed....

Other deals that i've heard being tabled by Cominiere are like drop all the legal cases and we can talk - backpay us the dividends from the funds raised via the ASX and we can discuss, you get the gist, nothing remotely fair.

As for the ICSID remedies, this is up to the claimant, we could ask for cash settlement, or something like being reinstated as owners of 13359 (specifying that its 221 carres, nothing more nothing less). Can't confirm what we've asked for as a claimant, but damages + reinstatement would be a minimal starting point, add in therapy for all the shareholders and a public tar and feathering of detractors would be great - DRC part of the legal accords makes the ICSID verdict enforceable.

This would be the best outcome, but i will caveat that in the instance ownership cannot be reinstated for whatever reason, then an increased cash settlement would be awarded - the other downside to this as everyone knows is ICSID is drawn out and can take up to 5-6 years before something even remotely close to settlement occurs.

Would have been nice of Nige and Co to ask us what we wanted from ICSID, but again a can of worms, everyone sending in emails for $12 with a Zijin fuckwit tax while hilarious, wouldn't have pushed the parcel as fast. Also if he had asked us, would have tipped the corrupt actors off, i remember being thrilled with the ICSID push, definitely a trump card and good leverage for us.

MMGA would have us believe that current BOD want to take ICSID all the way and by the time settlement comes around shareholders would be left with nothing - i highly doubt that we will take ICSID to trial or settlement, its a great tool in getting to the negotiating table and keeping those that matter in check (Felix).

 

[timb89]

At the time, the intel would mean the south would only be 69 carres. This would then go to Dathcom, i believe this was tabled to Nige, but likely a hard pass for obvious reasons.

Those tabled offers and those declined by Nige are likely similar to this type of lunacy, so when MMGA says we should be made aware of the deals so shareholders can make the best decisions, i'd counter that only when something resembling a fair deal is tabled, would we need to see it - otherwise every fucking 50c on the dollar cunt would submit some bullshit offer and we'd need to be informed....

Other deals that i've heard being tabled by Cominiere are like drop all the legal cases and we can talk - backpay us the dividends from the funds raised via the ASX and we can discuss, you get the gist, nothing remotely fair.

As for the ICSID remedies, this is up to the claimant, we could ask for cash settlement, or something like being reinstated as owners of 13359 (specifying that its 221 carres, nothing more nothing less). Can't confirm what we've asked for as a claimant, but damages + reinstatement would be a minimal starting point, add in therapy for all the shareholders and a public tar and feathering of detractors would be great - DRC part of the legal accords makes the ICSID verdict enforceable.

This would be the best outcome, but i will caveat that in the instance ownership cannot be reinstated for whatever reason, then an increased cash settlement would be awarded - the other downside to this as everyone knows is ICSID is drawn out and can take up to 5-6 years before something even remotely close to settlement occurs.

Would have been nice of Nige and Co to ask us what we wanted from ICSID, but again a can of worms, everyone sending in emails for $12 with a Zijin fuckwit tax while hilarious, wouldn't have pushed the parcel as fast. Also if he had asked us, would have tipped the corrupt actors off, i remember being thrilled with the ICSID push, definitely a trump card and good leverage for us.

MMGA would have us believe that current BOD want to take ICSID all the way and by the time settlement comes around shareholders would be left with nothing - i highly doubt that we will take ICSID to trial or settlement, its a great tool in getting to the negotiating table and keeping those that matter in check (Felix).

100%

Imagine what the market would do if everytime someone offered $100mil for a $1bil company. Absolutely stupid.

 

[pow4ade]

View attachment 47608

Well spotted Dom

Fucking slimy arseholes

That logo would have been done by video host Crux Investor. Carrick just a guest on their platform.

 

[Schmi46M]

Hello, my English is not that good so everything is translated with Google, sorry.
what's going on now in the DRC with AVZ? the cami has changed something.

 

[Carlos Danger]

At the time, the intel would mean the south would only be 69 carres. This would then go to Dathcom, i believe this was tabled to Nige, but likely a hard pass for obvious reasons.

Those tabled offers and those declined by Nige are likely similar to this type of lunacy, so when MMGA says we should be made aware of the deals so shareholders can make the best decisions, i'd counter that only when something resembling a fair deal is tabled, would we need to see it - otherwise every fucking 50c on the dollar cunt would submit some bullshit offer and we'd need to be informed....

Other deals that i've heard being tabled by Cominiere are like drop all the legal cases and we can talk - backpay us the dividends from the funds raised via the ASX and we can discuss, you get the gist, nothing remotely fair.

As for the ICSID remedies, this is up to the claimant, we could ask for cash settlement, or something like being reinstated as owners of 13359 (specifying that its 221 carres, nothing more nothing less). Can't confirm what we've asked for as a claimant, but damages + reinstatement would be a minimal starting point, add in therapy for all the shareholders and a public tar and feathering of detractors would be great - DRC part of the legal accords makes the ICSID verdict enforceable.

This would be the best outcome, but i will caveat that in the instance ownership cannot be reinstated for whatever reason, then an increased cash settlement would be awarded - the other downside to this as everyone knows is ICSID is drawn out and can take up to 5-6 years before something even remotely close to settlement occurs.

Would have been nice of Nige and Co to ask us what we wanted from ICSID, but again a can of worms, everyone sending in emails for $12 with a Zijin fuckwit tax while hilarious, wouldn't have pushed the parcel as fast. Also if he had asked us, would have tipped the corrupt actors off, i remember being thrilled with the ICSID push, definitely a trump card and good leverage for us.

MMGA would have us believe that current BOD want to take ICSID all the way and by the time settlement comes around shareholders would be left with nothing - i highly doubt that we will take ICSID to trial or settlement, its a great tool in getting to the negotiating table and keeping those that matter in check (Felix).

So was the catalyst for launching the ICSID the 14 day period needed for the MoM to grant us our right of appeal on the cancellation of the ML followed by the 3 month period for absence of arbitration approval or objection by the DRC?

Nigel's letter (Specifically Section 14) on the 3rd of February 2023 is the appeal. I'm guessing there's no other paperwork involved. The MoM is not allowed to cancel acquired rights unless the holder doesn't appeal, the appeal is time barred or the appeal is rejected under Article 290 of the mining code. Franck Fwamba says the response to this has a 14 day time limit but I can't find the legislation for that.

According to Franck Fwamba the MoM just ignored us. Under Article 319 of the mining code this leads to arbitration under the ICSID convention. As Dathcom is a national of the state for legal purposes we would would have needed to provide 3 arbitration options to the DRC government and when we presumably received no response to that either after 3 months we then had 30 days in which to tell them which arbitral tribunal we had chosen.

Which adds up to around mid May as the earliest we could have applied for the ICSID and our claim was processed by them in early June. AVZ said in the October 9th announcement that the DRC government only took an interest in talking to us again when it received the ICSID paperwork. Seems the delay in launching our claim was more procedural than anything else imo

 

[pow4ade]

Hello, my English is not that good so everything is translated with Google, sorry.
what's going on now in the DRC with AVZ? the cami has changed something. View attachment 47667 View attachment 47668 View attachment 47669 View attachment 47670

In short, it appears AVZ has been outplayed with the DRC proceeding to divy up our tenement whilst leaving us with a hobsons choice: drop the legal action and take what is left, or get nothing at all. No surprise really given the jurisdiction we're in. Time to face reality. AIMO.

 

[Winenut]

I vote Carlos for the board!

 

[Winenut]

the other dude......well......